E85 conversion chart and more information!

http://www.gt-labs.net/conversionchart.html

Hey, guys! I've been working on this pretty hard over that last few months. I'm currently ripping apart my car for a killer build-up using E85 and E98. I set up this conversion chart hoping that more folks who've used higher concentrations of ethanol would chime in. I'll be cross-posting this in a few of your other forums. I noticed some Fords, Chevys, and Jeeps using 50/50 mixes without any problems.

Nothing is being sold.
I repeat: WE'RE NOT SELLING ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My goal is to gather input from people who have run ethanol in their cars anyway, despite manufacturer recommendations to the contrary. I've found that most cars just need a few small tweaks to use it. Namely, larger injectors and an ECU tweak are what most cars use. Some stock vehicles have been able to handle it with no mods or tweaks at all. (The hose-clamp trick doesn't just work on my Subaru, apparently ;)) I hope you guys have some good info to share.

Gary
http://www.gt-labs.net

What'd you do to your RS for those gains? I saw it said nothing was done engine wise besides injectors and bolt ons, but it also says ecu was remapped. You mean piggybacked w/ only the TC right?

If that's the case i'll be using E85 on my RS. I have basically the same mods and a Perfect Power laying around that was going to be installed at a later date. I can only imagine how it would do w/ some true ignition and injector timing modification.

What'd you do to your RS for those gains? I saw it said nothing was done engine wise besides injectors and bolt ons, but it also says ecu was remapped. You mean piggybacked w/ only the TC right?

If that's the case i'll be using E85 on my RS. I have basically the same mods and a Perfect Power laying around that was going to be installed at a later date. I can only imagine how it would do w/ some true ignition and injector timing modification.


http://www.gt-labs.net/projectvehicles.html

Aside from the switch to E85, check all that out. I built it so I wouldn't have to constantly retype all of that :lol:.

A PP unit and larger injectors will do you just fine. I'm using a reflash from yoshio soon, but that certainly doesn't mean you can't use some other form of engine management. The fuel and timing curves change to a more linear look in their mapping. There's no funky dips and peaks in an ethanol map like there is on gas. An EGT gauge would be very adviseable. A custom map for E85 on a WRX saw his times drop from 12.8 to 12.4 and pick up 5mph in the 1/4. I used WRX injectors with slightly modded fuel rails to make them fit in my RS. You can seriously run 13's or better on this stuff while n/a in practically any car that can tune for the fuel. I'm building my car to take advantage of it's performance potential.

Gasoline just sucks ass after you've had a real ethanol experience :screwy: ;).

I def. read through the page on your RS and the table of other ethanol cars. I guess I was just misunderstanding whether or not those results you had were from simply a torque chip, or if any other engine management was used. The article hints at use of a reflash, but then nothing is mentioned. Anyhow, that's somewhat besides the point!

I want to order a barrel or 2 of e85 since it's not sold anywhere in or near tampa. If you have a hookup lemme know!!! lol. I was on the fence about e85 since I only read about using it on cars that were stock in form. Now I'm beginning to see the real potentional w/ just a lil bit of brains and timing control.

I def. read through the page on your RS and the table of other ethanol cars. I guess I was just misunderstanding whether or not those results you had were from simply a torque chip, or if any other engine management was used. The article hints at use of a reflash, but then nothing is mentioned. Anyhow, that's somewhat besides the point!

I want to order a barrel or 2 of e85 since it's not sold anywhere in or near tampa. If you have a hookup lemme know!!! lol. I was on the fence about e85 since I only read about using it on cars that were stock in form. Now I'm beginning to see the real potentional w/ just a lil bit of brains and timing control.

The combined airflow and fuelling mods were what I was getting at. They're listed on the page. The Torque Chip just fools the speed sensor, really. It gives more timing advance and a richer fuel curve, but not enough to anger anything or cause CEL's. The TC is usually good for 5-8whp on n/a cars. It's simple, worth it, and isn't truely as invasive to the computer as some true piggybacks can be. It isn't universal, though. Contact http://www.iwtu.com if you'd like one.

The beauty of E85 is that it isn't as hard to use as you might believe. Instead of putting myself up on some kind of pedistal as a tuner and giving you hocus-pocus, I try to break it down and show you how it works and doesn't work. It's certainly not out of reach of the average car guy/gal even with basic tuning knowledge. People have used this stuff on accident and it ran fine in cars not labelled as FFV's. Other cars weren't so lucky. Supposedly, some Hondas with plastic tanks lose their sealant but the tank itself is fine. I haven't heard it first hand, though.

One of the largest driving forces behind what I'm doing is the fact that the parts are already there to use it. It doesn't always take one aftermarket "magic trick". I used factory parts and it ran just fine without ever throwing a CEL. That tells me someone and/or several people figured it out before I did. I admit I'm a shadetree guy who got lucky. The factories don't believe there's much of a market for this stuff and I want to prove otherwise.

I ran my 99 on about 50% or more and my 95 on 100% for a short time, they both ran fine.

can you guys just buy ethanol for this easily? i've never seen it sold in the mainstream here, only through race fuel suppliers and tuning companies.

I've only seen methanol for sale to public, one may be able to buy a transport load of ethanol. I will do some checking.

The "manufacturers recommendations" would have a lot to do with the compatibility of the tanks and hoses in your car.

They're just recommendations...;)

you could also think of laws as "reccomendations" there's nothing physically stopping you from breaking them.

In regards to laws, what is written about mostly has been natural gas conversions, and how those emissions basically have to be as clean or cleaner than stock. The conversion must also be as non-invasive as possible and retain all emissions equipment.

I retuned for ethanol by swapping spark plugs and fuel injectors. My emissions are also cleaner than stock. I think I passed the req's...