Tune up tips?

Well, it looks like my original theory that my SES light problems were related to my MAF has been disproven. I'm going to try to change plugs and wires now, and see if that doesn't help.

As I'm sure you all know, it's close quarters between the 3800 engine and the firewall. Does anyone have any good tips for getting at the plugs and wires back there? A tech diagram like those Bob was able to provide in my other thread would be ideal.

Thanks in advance,

Bry

I'm not aware of any tech pocedures so you'll just have to do the best you can. The rear plugs are a PITA but doable with the right spark plug tools.

My first tip is patience. Next tip is do not remove the dogbone engine mounts and tilt the engine to try to get extra clearance. The hardest part is removing the metal shields and plug boots. It is up to you but to get at plugs #4 and #6, it may be easier to remove the 02 sensor on the downpipe and the bracket that holds the 02 sensor wiring harness that mounts to the exhaust manifold. Since you are installing new wires you may have to cut or damage the old ones but thats no big deal. Also, use proper lighting like a drop lamp so you can see better.

These are the tools I use. The spark plug ratchet is specially made for plug removal.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/sptools.jpg

During plug installation make sure you use anti-seize compound on the plug threads. Also, dielectric silicone grease on the inside of the plug boots or on the ceramic part of the plug.

I agree with bnaylor on the boot heat shields being the biggest issue. I use tools similar to what he has pictured, and used a long handled pair of needle nose pliers to get the boots off. I wasn't concerned about damaging the old wire boots, because I was replacing the wires anyway. I also second that there is no need to roll the engine forward, it really doesn't gain you anything on this vehicle.

Yeah Rich speaking of tilting the engine. One of my GP acquaintances locally decided to do that and he had a hell of a time getting the dogbone mounts back into position. It took three of us to manhandle it. The next day he started complaining about a knocking sound. Sounded like someone was knocking on the bottom of the undercarriage. It turns out the force of the engine moving forward bent his exhaust downpipe into a position where is was rubbing on the undercarriage. Then we had to take a prybar to the exhaust for clearance.

Someone told him it would speed up the process of changing the rear plugs. Yeah, right! :shakehead

I have a tilter tool, and it does help on older W-bodies with the 3.1 Vin-T, but is of no use on the 97-03 body style. Even with the tool you still have to use common sense. You can break mounts if you try to move it too far. I know of people that have tried the "set parking brake, put car in gear" method of moving it forward, and put the engine through the radiator/cooling fans, one even broke the front motor mount. Definitely not the "easier way" to do it! Patience is a virtue in this endeavor.

Thanks for the heads up guys. I'd found a lot of advice online that advocated tilting the engine, and was all set to try it. I'm glad I checked here first. I guess I'll just have to take my time with it and see how it goes. Maybe I'll wait 'til my sis is home from college. I tried to do the plugs on a similar car a while back, and my paws are too big to fit easily back there.

Would it make sense to read the SES code so you don't have to guess why it's on?

Would it make sense to read the SES code so you don't have to guess why it's on?

Most of us working with him knows that he has a misfire P0303 DTC and he probably does too.

But if it will help see his prior link below:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4363850#post4363850

Ah, sorry. I don't have any other advice then. I'll just go back to my usual forum...

If You Tilt The Engine Make Sure Its In Neutral.also On 3.8 Remove The Strut Brace.use A Set Of Spark Plug Boot Pliers And A Medium Lenth Pry Bar Place The The Pliers On The Boot And The Pry Bar On The Rear Valve Cover For Leverage Squeeze The Pliers With One Hand And Push Aginst The Pliers With The Pry Bar With The Other.trust Me If You Do This Correctly It Makes This Job A Breeze This Can Be Done Without Removing The Metal Sheild From The Boots..................good Luck

On 3.8 Remove The Strut Brace.

355smallblock,

You are aware stock 97 - 03 Grand Prixs do not have a strut brace going from strut tower to strut tower? The ones that do are either aftermarket, from a GMPP kit or taken from another GM "W" body like a Regal.

Also, we frown on duplicate posts. Your second post has been deleted.

Thanks Bob. I was wondering what strut bar he was talking about. I'm going to try this tonight and see how it goes. Looking at the engine when I got home from work I noticed that the wires are run through a black metal bracket attached to the engine. Should I remove this or just try to wiggle the wires through the bracket/guide?

Thanks Bob. I was wondering what strut bar he was talking about. I'm going to try this tonight and see how it goes. Looking at the engine when I got home from work I noticed that the wires are run through a black metal bracket attached to the engine. Should I remove this or just try to wiggle the wires through the bracket/guide?

You are referiing to the right (passenger) side of the engine? The u shaped bracket below the dogbone mount? I remove it. Easier to route the wires and make sure the plastic covering goes on right. It is a tight fit otherwise. Off the top of my head it should be two 15mm bolts up top and a 13mm nut by the exhaust manifold.

JESUS CHRIST DON'T REMOVE THE O2 WHAT WASTE OF TIME USE THE PRY BAR AND PLIAR TRICK IT IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EASY:iceslolan

Alright, one more stupid question. Last night I changed my PCV Valve. I followed the tech proceedure Bob gave me, and everything went smoothly. Today my car drove fine on the way to work, but had SES on when I went to lunch. So, I reviewed the tech proceedure, and noticed one differance. when i took the sensor off from above the PCV, it came off in 2 pieces as shown.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/994/pressens2pf1.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pressens2pf1.jpg)

The tech. proceedure shows it coming off in one piece. So, is this sensor broken, is this something I can glue back together, what? Oh, the car also ran a little rough at lunch and on the way home. Nothing you noticed when in the car, but the engine sounded differant when I got out and listened in my driveway.

Thats not good. It is the MAP sensor and critical to engine operation. I would replace it. Funny normally the two retaining prongs break and not the MAP sensor. What condition is the orange accordian seal in?

The seal looks to be in very good shape. I'll have to look around and see what a new MAP sensor is going to run me. *sigh* I'm saving so much money doing things myself. ;) Oh well, this is how you learn.

Will it be safe to drive my car a couple miles to the local AZ to pick up a sensor? How about if they don't have it? Safe to drive 26 hwy miles round trip to work and back?

You should be able to drive it a short distance with no problems, other than it driving like crap. The AC-DElco part # is 213-796 for reference. I believe A-Z carries Wells, part# SU1078. Wells isn't abad brand, but it's been my experience to stick with OEM parts when it comes to critical components. Also, be careful re-installing it. The bottom nipple is off-centered, so if you try to put it on wrong, you'll break the little plastic retainer clips as bnaylor mentioned earlier.

I went with the Wells brand as it was all I could find nearby. The car runs as bad with the new MAP sensor on as it did the old one. Lots of chugging and misfires. I made it through changing 4 of my 6 plugs last night before I was overcome with exaustion (4am) and took those out and double checked the gaps just a minute ago. No help. Would only having 4 plugs done affect the car? I did break one of the clips on the connector for the MAP sensor despite my best efforts to be careful. The sensor still seems securely attached though, so I cannot believe this is related. Any ideas?

Incidentally, there was a crack in the ceramic of the number 3 plug that I had replaced previously. It was tiny in width (just some black spiderweb cracks really) but ran for over an inch, so I suspect that was what was causing my original issue.

One final question: Do the metal boot shields serve any neccesary purpose? I only ask because it's all but imposible to get my number 6 plug seated with the metal shield in place.

The heat shields isolate the boots from heat, so they do serve a purpose. If the other two plugs are bad, then changing the other 4 would do no good. Have you changed the wires as well, and if so, what brand did you install? Also, have A-Z clear the CEL code for the MAP sensor now that you have it changed.

never mind

Alright, I'm a certifiable dumb-ass. I crossed the 3 and 5 wires. Once those were in the correct position the car runs flawlessly. I drove it about 5 miles total with the wires crossed. Hopefully I didn't do too much damage to the engine. Thanks for all your help guys. It's nice to be able to punch it and not have the car bog down.

I doubt there was any engine damage. We have been all through the school of hard knocks so I wouldn't worry about it. Important thing is you got it fixed and we are glad to hear about that. :thumbsup:

I'm with bnaylor, we've all done something silly like that to frustrate ourselves. We like hearing happy endings, glad you got her fixed. :cheers:

Alright, I'm a certifiable dumb-ass. I crossed the 3 and 5 wires. Once those were in the correct position the car runs flawlessly. I drove it about 5 miles total with the wires crossed. Hopefully I didn't do too much damage to the engine. Thanks for all your help guys. It's nice to be able to punch it and not have the car bog down.


Heres a tip from the spark plug wire changing master. lol. when your doing wires to make it so you dont cross wires. do either one wire at a time or if you have to take them all off the best way to do it is to take some masking tape put it around the wire and number each wire to the correct cylinder. this is very helpful

on my trans am LT1 if you install headers the wires tend to rest on the headers so you go through wires all the time. unfortunately i didnt know this till after the 5 hour install job. so i just wrap the wires in plug booties.