Ford Taurus (New)

Question:? I bought a new ford Taurus Yesterday and it was late in the evening. My question is the next day we really looked at it and found that the engine block was rusted is this normal or should we take it back
thx

HMMM
Sounds uncommon to me.
I see them everyday and I have yet to see one rusted.
I would see what could be done about it, but that's just me.

its a ford ...of course its rusted

i was j/k by the way...you might wanna take it back and see what is wrong with it ...maybe u gotta lemon...which wouldnt be nice

The block is made of iron so rust would be normal, and FYI, the Vulcan heads and block are iron. "What year?" Ours is an 03 but I believe they've been making that same Vulcan engine since 1996. 3.8 Ltr engine? You lost me there because it was a Taurus option in 1988 now long gone and the only two engines now Are Duratech and Vulcan.

Did you know the Duratech was re-designed by Yamaha? Yup, Ford gave Yamaha a 3.0 Vulcan and said, "Here, make this thing honk." "When Ford first introduced the Taurus, its base 3-liter V6 was a docile underachiever, and buyers let Ford know about it. So Ford sent the 3.0 V6 to Japan, where Yamaha first put dual overhead camshafts on it, then got permission to rebuild the entire engine to Yamaha specifications. That turned the Taurus into a classic sleeper." Varoom-Varoom! Hello Duratech!

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/11/ford_introduces.html
"People who expect high performance from their car will have to wait for the loudly rumored 3.5 liter V6 due out in a year or two." Some engines have a iron block and aluminum heads and our Marquis with the 4.6 looks like it has aluminum heads*and*block. "The smallest Triton was the 4.6 L (4605 cc/281 in³) V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8), based on the 90° Ford Modular engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine) design. Bore of the iron block is 3.55 in and stroke is 3.54 in. This engine is available with either a cast iron or aluminum block, but both use aluminum heads." Hmmmm. . . .. Maybe they ran short on engines and put a Triton V8 truck engine in our Marquis. Yeah Baby! Les' hook up!

Don't be shy, swing by some car dealers and look at their engine blocks and if it's iron I guarantee it's rusty. They all get a rust like coating on them but the rust doesn't flake and chip off. Lot's of Taurii cruising around running fine with 300K miles on them, so don't sweat the small stuff, take good care of it and enjoy your new Taurus.

What year/engine?
The 3.8 Liter engines would easily rust as would the vulcan engines.

My '02 Vulcan has a light rusty coating on the heads and some other exposed parts like the exhaust manifold. Is a great car and I would expect that yours is as well.

The Duratec was not designed by Yamaha. It was designed along with the 2.5L Duratec by Ford Detroit and Ford Cologne and built in Cleveland.

The Duratec and Vulcan share nothing in common other than their bolt pattern

The SHO V6 sold from '89-'95 WAS designed by Yamaha. It was supposed to be based on the vulcan but Yamaha couldn't find much worth saving and designed a new engine from the ground up.

There will be a 3.5L Duratec available in the 500 and Freestyle very soon.

Please do not misinform people

"The Duratec was not designed by Yamaha. It was designed along with the 2.5L Duratec by Ford Detroit and Ford Cologne and built in Cleveland."
Wrong. Read the third paragraph. http://www.mercurycapri.com/technical/engine/sho/shoinfo.html

"The Duratec and Vulcan share nothing in common other than their bolt pattern." Wrong again, they are both 3.0 engines, read the third paragraph again.

Here's some more good info: "the entire Duratech engine was designed by porsche! the engine was delivered to ford but it was too long to fit into the engine compartment. (ford screw up, what else is new http://www.contour.org/archive/images/icons/rolleyes.gif ) ford then "shortened" it and that is what we have in our cars today. ford didnt realize shortening the engine would cause any problems but that is where we get the crank whip from. the genius' figured that out later, so enter the duel mode dampener. http://www.contour.org/archive/images/icons/wink.gif see i was awake at the SZ dinner. http://www.contour.org/archive/images/icons/smile.gif "

Yamaha did the Taurus SHO engines.
This says Yamaha did the engine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Yamaha_V8_engine

See First Generation SHO:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Taurus

See the second paragraph.
http://www.nycexoticcarrentals.com/ford-taurus.php

I provided you with links verifying of what I said, now please provide links verifying what you said otherwise it is hear say and has no merit.

"The Duratec was not designed by Yamaha. It was designed along with the 2.5L Duratec by Ford Detroit and Ford Cologne and built in Cleveland."
Wrong. Read the third paragraph. http://www.mercurycapri.com/technical/engine/sho/shoinfo.html

I should know better than to get involved in this "discussion," but here goes....

The third paragraph at the referenced site just discusses the V-6 SHO engine, no mention of the Duratech. The Duratech engine is not a SHO V-6 engine.

The fourth paragraph discusses the Duratech, but does not imply that the Duratech was designed by Yamaha. It simply mentions that the V-8 in the SHO was based on the Duratech, but the heads and assembly of the V-8 had Yamaha's help.

"The Duratec and Vulcan share nothing in common other than their bolt pattern." Wrong again, they are both 3.0 engines, read the third paragraph again.

Now this is just being picky.... :) I must be missing something here, because so far your references seem to reinforce what drdisque typed.

Here's some more good info: "the entire Duratech engine was designed by porsche! the engine was delivered to ford but it was too long to fit into the engine compartment. (ford screw up, what else is new http://www.contour.org/archive/images/icons/rolleyes.gif ) ford then "shortened" it and that is what we have in our cars today. ford didnt realize shortening the engine would cause any problems but that is where we get the crank whip from. the genius' figured that out later, so enter the duel mode dampener. http://www.contour.org/archive/images/icons/wink.gif see i was awake at the SZ dinner. http://www.contour.org/archive/images/icons/smile.gif "

Hmmm, what's the source for this info? I've never heard that story. I've owned both a V-6 SHO and a currently have a V-8 SHO. I've been part of various SHO message boards and frequent the SHOTimes sites, but never read anything like this. Granted I usually just read articles that I might find useful sometime and maybe missed this one.

Yamaha did the Taurus SHO engines.
This says Yamaha did the engine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Yamaha_V8_engine

This says Yamaha did most of the work on the V-6 SHO engine, but not the V-8 SHO engine. It doesn't mention who did the design of the engine (which is a big part of "doing the engine").

I provided you with links verifying of what I said, now please provide links verifying what you said otherwise it is hear say and has no merit.

-Rod

Third paragraph. http://v8sho.com/SHO/Star%20Tribune.htm
"So Ford sent the 3.0 V6 to Japan, where Yamaha first put dual overhead camshafts on it, then got permission to rebuild the entire engine to Yamaha specifications. That turned the Taurus into a classic sleeper."

Shorod sez: "This says Yamaha did most of the work on the V-6 SHO engine, but not the V-8 SHO engine. It doesn't mention who did the design of the engine (which is a big part of "doing the engine").

Uhh, maybe you missed this part. Notice where it says, "then (Yamaha) got permision to rebuild the (3.0 V6) engine to Yamaha specifications." See, FORD sent the engine to Japan so they could hop it up. "So Ford sent the 3.0 V6 to Japan," So, Yamaha REDESIGNED the engine to YAMAHA specifications. I really don't see where that is so hard to understand and it clearly says "YAMAHA REDESIGNED THE ENGINE TO YAMAHA SPECIFICATIONS." But you claim, "It doesn't mention who did the design of the engine (which is a big part of "doing the engine"). I'm sorry but you lost me there Bro'.

Designed by Porsche: http://www.contour.org/archive/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB6&Number=212435&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Who knows, maybe the guys just blowin' smoke, but I priovide you with the link for your review.

Fourth & eighth posts: http://www.taurusclub.com/archive/index.php?showtopic=10767&hl= Interesting about Ford shipping the blocks back & forth to Japan.

Scroll down where Vernon says, "The Duratech V8 SHO's are not quicker than the Yamaha V6 SHO's, slower actually." http://sccoa.com/forums/printthread.php?t=19201&pp=40 HA! Vern called it a Yamaha V6. Veddy intere-rest-stink. . . . :rolleyes:

I Google and find many, many references with Duratech and Yamaha in the same breath, but since I have a Vulcan it doesn't matter a hill of beans to me. However, you must admit, my reply did trigger a good discussion. You ask where I got the Porsche info, so I gave you the link and in addition proved my point by providing links verifying what I said and IMHO a blind man could see the Duratech was DESIGNED by YAMAHA. :evillol: I rest my case and put this discussion to rest.

V6 SHO
Originally commissioned in 1982-1984 by the Ford motor company to the Yamaha Motor Company to be used in a mid-engine sports car. Ford had originally submitted a retooled Inline 200cu in Falcon Six Series Motor to the Yamaha Motor Company. Yamaha was able to do little with in the department of improving so they opted to re-design the existing engine and converting it from an in-line six cylinder to standard v-design, producing what we now know as the SHO. During the engine’s two year development Ford had change their image and no longer had a need/desire for a car to compete with Corvette but already under contract obligation they opted to de-tune the engine for a luxury sports sedan.

Duratec
Duratec is a general name referring to any power plant engine built by the Ford Motor Company with in the past twelve years. The original 2.5L Mondeo style engine was built in house by Ford in Germany. The rumor of the engine being built by Ford has no merit and mostly came from the fact that the 1996 Porsche Boxster used a 2.5L six cylinder block built by the Ford Motor Company but the Porsche Boxster engine was a flat configuration where as we all know the Duratec is a V style engine.

V8 SHO
Ford wanting to recap on the success of the 2nd generation SHO once again commissioned Yamaha to do so. Ford submitted an 8-cylinder design based off the existing 2.5L Duratec power plant. Yamaha was able to do little more with the engine other than aesthetics and simple performance additions.

Vulcan
Designed and built in-house by Ford Motor Company’s North American Division.

Brokenantimatter, thank you very much for that most informative, knowledgable reply. HA! I thought that guy who said Porsche had do with it was a bit out of line. I never realized what an interesting history the 3.0 engines have and how Ford perfected casting the aluminum block.

Maybe you can teach me something. Wife has a 05 Marquis and I looked at the front of the aluminum block and I can't see where the heads mate up to the block. ??

Being an old codger the Vulcan has enough oomph for me and if I feel the need for speed I borrow the wifes Marquis and hook up that big 4.6 and let it honk. :grinyes: Bad Boy, Bad Boy, what ya' gonn'a do when they come for you?

I am not sure which post I should reply to first?

You best bet would be to get a Chilton or Haynes manual and look at the pictures.

Third paragraph. http://v8sho.com/SHO/Star%20Tribune.htm
"So Ford sent the 3.0 V6 to Japan, where Yamaha first put dual overhead camshafts on it, then got permission to rebuild the entire engine to Yamaha specifications. That turned the Taurus into a classic sleeper."

Shorod sez: "This says Yamaha did most of the work on the V-6 SHO engine, but not the V-8 SHO engine. It doesn't mention who did the design of the engine (which is a big part of "doing the engine").

Uhh, maybe you missed this part. Notice where it says, "then (Yamaha) got permision to rebuild the (3.0 V6) engine to Yamaha specifications." See, FORD sent the engine to Japan so they could hop it up. "So Ford sent the 3.0 V6 to Japan," So, Yamaha REDESIGNED the engine to YAMAHA specifications. I really don't see where that is so hard to understand and it clearly says "YAMAHA REDESIGNED THE ENGINE TO YAMAHA SPECIFICATIONS." But you claim, "It doesn't mention who did the design of the engine (which is a big part of "doing the engine"). I'm sorry but you lost me there Bro'.

I'm not disputing that Yamaha did extensive work on the V-6 SHO engine. The links you provided seem to attempt to tie the Duratech and the V-8, that's what I'm not sure is accurate. I guess you missed my point, where I wrote, "The fourth paragraph discusses the Duratech, but does not imply that the Duratech was designed by Yamaha. It simply mentions that the V-8 in the SHO was based on the Duratech, but the heads and assembly of the V-8 had Yamaha's help."

The "design of the engine" comment was in reference to the design of the V-8 engine. Read my previous post again. Design and manufacturing are two independent efforts. Sometimes these are done by the same company, sometimes they are not. Some believe the V-8 SHO engine was designed by Ford, some people believe it was designed by Yamaha. Personally, I don't really know, and unless a big wig at Ford comes out and "SHOs" proof who designed the V-8, we'll probably never know and be left to reference websites showing the direction we choose to believe.

I Google and find many, many references with Duratech and Yamaha in the same breath, but since I have a Vulcan it doesn't matter a hill of beans to me. However, you must admit, my reply did trigger a good discussion. You ask where I got the Porsche info, so I gave you the link and in addition proved my point by providing links verifying what I said and IMHO a blind man could see the Duratech was DESIGNED by YAMAHA. :evillol: I rest my case and put this discussion to rest.

During your Googleing, I suspect you probably came across many sites that mentioned the dispute between whether the V-8 was designed by Ford or designed by Yamaha. There is a chance that many people confuse "manufacture" with "design."

Anyway, I have had a V-6 SHO and a V-8 SHO, and like you, it really doesn't matter to me who designed or modified it, as long as it runs and I enjoy driving it. I guess I'll go back to helping people out rather than disagreeing with them.

-Rod

Third paragraph. http://v8sho.com/SHO/Star%20Tribune.htm
"So Ford sent the 3.0 V6 to Japan, where Yamaha first put dual overhead camshafts on it, then got permission to rebuild the entire engine to Yamaha specifications. That turned the Taurus into a classic sleeper."

Shorod sez: "This says Yamaha did most of the work on the V-6 SHO engine, but not the V-8 SHO engine. It doesn't mention who did the design of the engine (which is a big part of "doing the engine").

Uhh, maybe you missed this part. Notice where it says, "then (Yamaha) got permision to rebuild the (3.0 V6) engine to Yamaha specifications." See, FORD sent the engine to Japan so they could hop it up. "So Ford sent the 3.0 V6 to Japan," So, Yamaha REDESIGNED the engine to YAMAHA specifications. I really don't see where that is so hard to understand and it clearly says "YAMAHA REDESIGNED THE ENGINE TO YAMAHA SPECIFICATIONS." But you claim, "It doesn't mention who did the design of the engine (which is a big part of "doing the engine"). I'm sorry but you lost me there Bro'.

I'm not disputing that Yamaha did extensive work on the V-6 SHO engine. The links you provided seem to attempt to tie the Duratech and the V-8, that's what I'm not sure is accurate. I guess you missed my point, where I wrote, "The fourth paragraph discusses the Duratech, but does not imply that the Duratech was designed by Yamaha. It simply mentions that the V-8 in the SHO was based on the Duratech, but the heads and assembly of the V-8 had Yamaha's help."

The "design of the engine" comment was in reference to the design of the V-8 engine. Read my previous post again. Design and manufacturing are two independent efforts. Sometimes these are done by the same company, sometimes they are not. Some believe the V-8 SHO engine was designed by Ford, some people believe it was designed by Yamaha. Personally, I don't really know, and unless a big wig at Ford comes out and "SHOs" proof who designed the V-8, we'll probably never know and be left to reference websites showing the direction we choose to believe.

I Google and find many, many references with Duratech and Yamaha in the same breath, but since I have a Vulcan it doesn't matter a hill of beans to me. However, you must admit, my reply did trigger a good discussion. You ask where I got the Porsche info, so I gave you the link and in addition proved my point by providing links verifying what I said and IMHO a blind man could see the Duratech was DESIGNED by YAMAHA. :evillol: I rest my case and put this discussion to rest.

During your Googleing, I suspect you probably came across many sites that mentioned the dispute between whether the V-8 was designed by Ford or designed by Yamaha. There is a chance that many people confuse "manufacture" with "design."

Anyway, I have had a V-6 SHO and a V-8 SHO, and like you, it really doesn't matter to me who designed or modified it, as long as it runs and I enjoy driving it. I guess I'll go back to helping people out rather than disputing what they type.

-Rod

"During your Googleing, I suspect you probably came across many sites that mentioned the dispute between whether the V-8 was designed by Ford or designed by Yamaha. There is a chance that many people confuse "manufacture" with "design." :grinno: ROTFL! Now that wuz good and seems you're in a state of denial on this issue.

We aren't trying to confuse the issue, are we? What's with the play on words there? My goodness, if you read the info below it leaves no doubt as to who, "rebuilt the entire engine to YAMAHA specifications." That tells me Yamaha specified the specifications of the engine and if that isn't 'designing' then I don't know what is. If you are saying the article is wrong then that's another denial thing, but please don't tell me anyone with average intelligence will confuse manufacturing with designing.

Lookey here, please read, absorb then meditate and contemplate the meaning: http://v8sho.com/SHO/Star%20Tribune.htm One more time:
"So Ford sent the 3.0 V6 to Japan, where Yamaha first put dual overhead camshafts on it, then (YAHAMA) got permission to rebuild the ENTIRE engine to Yamaha specifications." THAR SHE BLOWS! :evillol: Entire: Meaning 'all inclusive', meaning Yamaha designed the whole ball of wax. Capish?

OK, I provided hard core evidence links and still haven't received a single link contradicting what I've said. Provide a link because personal opinions and what you "think" is mere hear say.

And one more time, what I said is I don't dispute that the V-6 is a Yamaha design. The original discrepancy is whether the V-8 is a Yamaha design. I don't see anywhere in any of the provided links where it definitively states that the V-8 is a Yamaha design.

-Rod

Rod, Yamaha very little to do with the V-8 they built/designed the intake runners, camshaft, pistons and a insignificant things. The problem was the term Super.High.Output was part of a contract and for Ford to use SHO on the Taurus, Yamaha had to have some level of significant affilation with the Engine. It orginally took Yamaha a couple of years to rebuild the V6 SHO so Ford saved a lot of money and R&D time buy building the engine restricting what Yamaha could do to it. It basiclly comes down to the same thing as a Mustang Saleen, do you consider it a Ford or Saleen product?

This is my understanding as well, but I've never seen any documentation with details on exactly what Yamaha did with the V-8, seems both Ford and Yamaha want to take credit for the V-8 (unfortunately neither will take ownership of the cam gear issues :) ). As you understand, I don't think anyone disputes that Yamaha had a large role in the V-6 SHO.

-Rod

Rod, Yamaha very little to do with the V-8 they built/designed the intake runners, camshaft, pistons and a insignificant things. The problem was the term Super.High.Output was part of a contract and for Ford to use SHO on the Taurus, Yamaha had to have some level of significant affilation with the Engine. It orginally took Yamaha a couple of years to rebuild the V6 SHO so Ford saved a lot of money and R&D time buy building the engine restricting what Yamaha could do to it. It basiclly comes down to the same thing as a Mustang Saleen, do you consider it a Ford or Saleen product?

Whatever . . . . Let's have a Beer and talk about long legged, bow legged wimmen' we've known and loved. :naughty: Well, there was this gal from El Segundo, Mary Mack all dressed in black, who I gave diamonds and she gave me the disease. :licka: Mmmm good, real good . . . .

Mmmm, beer......(drool)

Mmmm, beer......(drool) :iceslolan

Yeah man! Beer AND long legged bow legged wimmens' . . . . . :licka:

Well, at least we found something we agree on. :wink:

I prefer scotch

I was a used car dealer and bought used Taurus's all the time. It depends on how bad the rust is. A little is normal, depending on the age and care taken of it. Severe rust often times is indicative of a flood history. Did you pull the CarFax?

Right on, *severe* rusting is no good. I looked under mine front and back and very little rust other than the engine block. Former owner bought it in NJ and retired down South and up North I know they put salt on the snow, so I'd expect some rust here and there. I've put almost 2500 mi on it since I got it and not one thing wrong and hasn't burnt a drop of oil and getting 23 mpg around town. I live 15 mi from the ocean so we expect metal things to rust.

I went to a traveling auction yesterday that had 5 '05 Vulcans and they all had rust on the exhaust pipes connecting right at the block and the block itself was severly rusted. These cars had never been driven.