halfshaft help

I'm trying to drop a used engine into my 97 metro, and have run into a problem getting the halfshafts out of the transaxle. They "popped" part of the way, but won't come completely out of the gearbox, or go back in either.
Any suggestions would be most welcome. If I can't get them out, I'm just going to cut the engine loose and pull it, but I'll still need to get the evil creatures back in place.
I've already tried the "quarter turn/half turn one way or the other" trick, but it didn't help at all.
Thanks!

have you taken the other end out of the knuckle and brake rotor? to get them out of that end first take the big center nut off then jack car off the ground, where the lower control arm joins the the bottom of the hub you will see a bolt and nut. remove then. you should then be able to pry the ball joint stud out of the hub. once you have done that you can turn the steering wheel all the way left and remove the right axle from hud and turn full right to remove the left one. once you have them out of the hubs they should come out of the tranny

I've been trying all evening to just "pry the ball joint studs out of the hub".
Are you kidding?
I'm really afraid of damaging something.
I've had a 6' long pipe as a lever with the far end up against the bottom of the car behind the wheel. Even standing on this pipe I can't make this stud pop loose. A pickle fork will destroy the ball joint I'm afraid.
Someone please offer some practical solution.
Haynes says "pull on the stabilizer bar". Yeah. Right. Why don't they say "blow on it and it will come loose", or "talk nicely to it and it will drop right out".
Thanks.

did you pull the bolt and nut out that is at the bottom of brake rotor that holds the ball joint top in?

try taking the stabilizer bar link off of the control arm ;) spray it with some PB blaster, let it soak, and take the nut off the top. Once the stabilizer bar is disconnected, the ball joint should pretty much just fall out with nothing more than hand power.

Thanks, guys. But here's the deal:
Yes, the "ball stud squeeze bolt" (Haynes) has been removed from both sides of the car.
There is no anti-roll bar ("stabilizer bar") on this car.
So I've soaked the ball joint stud in PB Blaster (I'm wondering how good this is for the ball joint itself as it seeps into the lube boot). And now I'm about to try a 3' crow bar somehow between the control arm and the knuckle or halfshaft. I'll also try turning the wheels to full left or right lock as I do this. I'm thinking that maybe prying open the ball stud squeeze collar as I do this may help?
Should I try to squeeze some grease into the ball joint boots if I get the joints off without destroying them?
Observations:
1) I'm starting to wonder why I am doing this.
2) Why do I need to drop the control arm to get the halfshaft out?
3) If (that's a very big IF) and when I get the ball joints apart, will I now be looking for a pair of control arms and trying to find the hundreds of $ and several days to try and install them onto this rust-encrusted heap?
4) Based on posts to this web site, I was thinking that I would have the JDM engine and a new clutch installed in maybe two days. Now that one day of the three I have is gone, and I have yet to even start pulling the halfshafts, I'm thinking of borrowing money to buy another car, or maybe stealing one. 5) Whoever said "pulling engine & transaxle together is way easier than engine only" is either (a) laughing right now as I finally get the joke, or (b) lives in Guadalajara and has no idea what sodium chloride is or what a saturated solution of it does to car parts when applied 4 months out of every year for 14 years.
Thanks in advance for any encouragement you can give me.

if you see the split where the bolt went through try hammering a big screwdriver into it to spread it a little bit, ball joint should pop right out then

Thanks, Vette.
But here's what I've done since my last post:
1) Turned the wheel to full left lock, giving what looked like much better access to the ball joint on the left side of the car.
2) Applied a 3' crow bar, with the tip on the control arm just next to the ball joint boot and the bend of the crow bar very conveniently in the little groove of the brake caliper, for very good leverage.
3) Lifted and jerked on the crow bar until my already-bad back started making popping sounds and spasms of pain.
4) Jammed a big screwdriver blade into the squeeze bolt groove with a big hammer, pulling to spread the joint while pulling on the crow bar some more.
5) Broke off the screwdriver blade in the groove.
6) Applied more PB Blaster to the joint.
7) Beat on the squeeze joint really hard with a foot-long punch and about a 5 lb. huge hammer.
8) Applied more friendly persuasion with the crow bar, to no avail.
9) Applied a small flame of MAPP gaas to the joint for about two minutes, above the bolt and toward the knuckle, to stay away from the rubber parts.
10) Smelled rubber burning (probably the ball joint boot) and turned off teh flame.
11) Applied the crow bar again; I swear I heard the car laugh at me.
I'm going to the tool store now to buy a 6' wrecking bar. Maybe I'll wreck the car WAY beyond what it's worth (I already have way too much time & $ into this pathetic car) and give it away to charity (it's end of tax year now).
Help?

if you can post a pic or e-mail me one of the part i can see if you missed anything. same e-mail @aol.com

I can't figure out how to put pix here.
I'll e-mail you

I'm really thinking of just putting all this back together & removing the engine only. I will be rebuilding the entire front end the way this is going (heading for disaster with a suspension part breaking in a major way or me getting hurt).
I now have a 6' wrecking bar but I'm afraid to use it. I think a shop would take the whole front end apart and use a hydraulic press or something like that to remove the ball joint.

The 6' wrecking bar won't work. The tip shape just slips off the control arm when I try to use it as a lever. It's probably a good thing, because I think if you need a 6' bar to pry two little parts apart, something's wrong. I can't see a shop doing this.
I'm going to put everything back together and just take out the engine.
I think a lot of people have no concept of what is involved with working on Northern cars. This is not the first brick wall of rust that I've run into. Many times I've listened to someone tell me how to do a job "the easy way" only to realize that sometimes the effects of road salt leave NO easy way. I always end up at a shop with a guy telling me "This car/truck isn't worth what it's going to cost you", to which I reply "That's why I was doing the labor myself! Someone told me it would be easy!"
I think I will cut my losses with this Geo, sell it and my other cantankerous old cars (2 Mercedes-Benzes and a Fiat Spider), and find a used Camry, some wing tips, a trench coat, and be like everyone else, with a hobby like wood carving or gardening, until I can move to Texas, New Mexico, or somewhere like that.

To post a picture:

You have to put your picture into a free online storage service such as photobucket.com or imageshack. It's a free sign up. When the pic is uploaded copy the URL link provided under the picture.

Then click on the yellow picture icon at the top of the reply box in this forum and paste the URL link.

It should show up immediately but if it doesn't, click on "preview post" to make sure your picture came through.

Hope this helps.

Thanks.
The left side ball joint is out and I got the right side ball joint loose after a whole lot of PB Blaster, prying, beating, heating, and finally whacking really hard on the suspension arm with my giant heavy hammer on the end of the 3' crow bar, just like the left side.
I now have the left axle out of the trans. Do I really need to take it out of the wheel hub? It's zip-tied to the suspension arm now and it looks like I can get the engine & trans out like that. I'm thinking same on the other side?
There's grease oozing out of the ball joint boots. I'm going to shoot some more in there with a pointed nozzle grease gun tip, before I put them back together. I'm also going to smother the ball joint shafts with anti-seize before I put them back together. They were a real bear to get apart. "Pop right out"? NOT!

you can leave the axles in the hubs if they are out of the way. sorry you had such a hard time getting them out. ones i do i can usually just pull down on and they will pop right out. once in a great while i have to use a pry bar or tap down on the lower control arm with a hammer while i am pulling down on it

You must not live in the salt belt.
Count your blessings.

a car lift makes it easier too, getting to old to crawl around on my back under cars

I agree having a hoist would be the bomb. But on this ball joint caper the hard whacking, beating, and prying was all done from above.
It's done now. Once both ball joints came apart so cooperatively:disappoin , the halfshafts more or less walked right out of the transaxle. I have them tied out of the way now and it looks like I can lift the engine/trans out without removing the halfshafts from the hubs, although I would kind of like to look at the wheel bearings to see what's involved with replacing them, as long as I have everything apart. I'm not sure what they look like from the Haynes manual. I have had a wa-wa-wa-wa noise at highway speeds from the front end, ever since I got the car. It now has about 180k miles on it.
Will it be easier to do the wheel bearings right now rather than later?
What exactly needs to be done if I'm going to replace them?
Are there two bearings in each hub with a spacer in between?
How many bearing seals are there per hub?
None of this is clear from the Haynes bok or the auto parts store.
Thanks in advance.

2 bearings per wheel, you will need a slide hammer to get the spindle out of the hub and a press to replace the bearings. you can do it with a hammer and punch but takes a lot longer, ask Drbill. think he changed one the hard way

I've been thru all this crap before...it is not fun.

have a look at all of

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=472753

and maybe all of

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=602644&highlight=wheel+bearing

I changed the front wheel bearings on my '93 Geo Metro about a year ago.
Don't remember much except it was a bastard because I didn't know what
I was doing - as per usual!

Getting that rod out of the wheel assembly took beating on the pin which
deformed one of them. I had a Forked Tie Rod Removal Tool which was
totally useless - or I didn't know how to use it - one or the other....

I bought new ones to replace the old ones, but never put them in yet.
I got the old ones back in and just left them that way so that I wouldn't
need to get it all re-aligned. It has worked.

But it made one Hell of a difference once I was done! Silent bearings....

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/DoctorBill_SCC/Metro%20Head%20Rebuild/Fin-NewTieRods-1.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/DoctorBill_SCC/Metro%20Head%20Rebuild/Fin-NewTieRods-2.jpg

I essentially bashed the threads in on one Tie Rod - but luckily I got the nut
to rethread upon assembly.

I would put some anti-seize lub on the tapered portion with the arrow to hopefully
allow you to remove them later on.

You will need to take the wheel assembly in to a shop to have the old bearings
pressed out and the new bearings pressed in. I wouldn't try it yourself!

DoctorBill

I'm not sure why tie rod ends need disassembly to do wheel bearings. Is it to remove the whole hub/knuckle/spindle/whatever and take it to the shop?
Anyway, I'm not touching my wheel bearings after reading this. I will be happy just to get the engine & clutch into the car. I will retighten my spindle nuts and maybe my noises will go away like Bill's.
BTW, I can get wheel bearings for $15 each with lifetime warranty at Murray's Auto Parts. Seals are $7.30 each at S&G Imported Car Parts.

A friend told me I should have unbolted the top of the struts, swung the struts outward and pulled down the suspension arm, and the halfshafts should then come out of the trans. That sure would have been easier than busting apart the ball joints. Is that possible on a Metro? I looked at the struts and I'm not sure that would work.

Let me know, even though it's too late now.

Thanks.

OK, everybody. I finally got the new JDM engine & old transaxle back in the car, and I'm now trying to put the halfshafts back into the transaxle. I was able to get the engine/trans out & back in again without pulling the halfshafts out of the wheel hubs. I have greased the shaft seals in the transaxle and put the right shaft in the hole but it doesn't want to snap back into the splines. It has about an inch more to go and I'm pushing on it and turning the shaft to line up the splines. I just noticed that the Haynes book says to install new circlips on the halfshafts. Is that necessary?
Any suggestions for getting the shafts into the tranny? They popped right out just by me pulling on them.
Thanks.

I've pulled and reinstalled the half shalfts in a couple of Metros without ever having changed the circlips, no problems so far. I don't think you'ld have to much to worry about unless they got really loose.

Personally I split the hub/strut assembly by pulling the two large bolts that hold them together, then remove the disc brake caliper; this lets me tip the hub out and down giving enough room to free the shaft from the hub and then remove it from the transaxle (no particular preference for this method, it just worked).

By chance did you leave the transaxle in neutral? If so then then it will spin along with the splines on the halfshaft so you will have more trouble getting them to mate up. I'm thinking the shafts are at a bit of an angle and not lining up well so not wanting to go together. Kind of like the input shaft on the transaxle and its relationship with the clutch-difficult unitl you get it "just right" and then it falls together as if you planned it that way.

Thanks. I'll check to see if it's in neutral and then try to finesse the shafts in like with the clutch job.

I hooked up the trans linkage, put it in gear, and weaseled the halfshafts straight in, no problem.

Thanks, all, for the advice.

Congrats! Hope the rest of your project sails back together and you can enjoy your efforts!