'98 no start, SES on, 5 DTC's

My 98 intrigue, 150,000 miles, will not start. Codes are p0306, po306, p0171, po404, and p1404. It was running fine, I stopped to put oil in it, then drove about 3 miles. Stopped for a few minutes, started up kinda rough, drove a couple more miles running rough, as if it were getting no gas, and losing power then died. Would not start after that. Help!! I have researched all these codes and symptoms and haven't been able to find the problem and I'm afraid I will replace parts not needing to be replaced.

P0306 Code - Cylinder #6 Misfire
P0171 System Too Lean (Bank 1)
P0404 Exhaust Gas Recirculation(EGR) Circuit Range/Performance
P1404 is the EGR Pintle Position

Well, I really dont know where to begin, you might try cleaning the EGR valve? I just posted those for the benefit of everyone else

Would that cause the car to not start?

well see thats what I dont understand, because none of those things should make the car not start. EGR is an emissions thing, and the car should still run without it functioning properly.

I almost wonder if those problems arent just pure coincedence?

I was thinking maybe it is the crankshaft sensor? Not being able to start it makes it hard to test some things and I really don't want to replace a bunch of unbroken parts or sensors. Wouldn't there be a code if it were the crankshaft sensor? Also, I read there is some sort of fault in the error codes regarding EGR's on this particular GM engine. Anyone ever hear of this?

How old is the fuel filter? Best thing to do is check fuel pressure and make sure it is in specs and the fuel pump is good. I'd do that before looking at an ignition problem like the crank sensor.

Based on the misfire DTCs and your symptoms it sounds like you ran out of gas or there is a fuel system problem. I've had misfires DTCs set in this situation. The EGR codes could be coincidental but should not cause starting problems or a stall.

There is fuel all the way up to the injectors and there was at least 1/2 tank of gas when this happened...

There is fuel all the way up to the injectors and there was at least 1/2 tank of gas when this happened...

Did you confirm the actual fuel pressure was good at the fuel pressure regulator Schrader valve with a gauge? The SII 3800 must have the right fuel pressure or it will not run properly.

That will cause it to not start also? I just want the darn thing to start!!! :o)

Are you getting spark & what engine is it?

That will cause it to not start also? I just want the darn thing to start!!! :o)
Spray carb cleaner into the intake see if it starts to confirm if this is a fuel problem, basic diagnostics are in order here. Twice Bnaylor has recommended a fuel pressure test, was it done? After you have done this test, post back results.

Ya know, I do not have the 3800 engine, and have done very little with my 3.5L. However, on my other vehicles I do know they would not idle and therefore would probably start with the EGR valve open. So you might look at that, i.e. EGR valve stuck open. You should be able to put a straw or piece of hose over the vacuum line on the egr, suck on it and make the valve open and close as you pull and then release the suction. If it is operating, try leaving the vacuum line off of the egr and put a pencil or something else in the end of the vacuum line to seal it and see if the car will run. If that should work, I would suspect the "egr valve controller" - whatever GM calls it. On the later Fords it is the DPFE sensor. I would suspect that it is sending an open signal at the wrong time perhaps because of the 1404 code which suggests (I am just thinking out loud here, no expert) that egr valve position information to the computer is bogus, or unavailable.

Are you getting spark & what engine is it?

FYI. The 98 Intrigue only has the SII 3800 Vin "K" engine.

FYI. The 98 Intrigue only has the SII 3800 Vin "K" engine.

Thanks. I should have said to check for spark at all 3 front cylinders so we can also rule out a bad coil.

I have not yet done the fuel pressure test. I don't have a gauge. Will it be sufficient to do the carb cleaner thing? or do i need to get a gauge?

Oh and that is correct on the engine size. Thanks bnaylor.

I have not yet done the fuel pressure test. I don't have a gauge. Will it be sufficient to do the carb cleaner thing? or do i need to get a gauge?
If it starts with carb cleaner, it means you have no injector pulse or fuel pressure sufficient to accuate the injectors.

The Egr Valve Is Electronic So Dont Look For A Vaccum Line.if It Was Stuck Open It Might Not Start.cylinder No 6 Is The Closest To The Vave Passage And It Would Lean Out Enough To Set A Misfire Code.try Unplugging The Valve And See If It Will Run.also Try Tapping On The Valve With A Hammer Very Lightly And It May Caome Unstuck.

Is This A 3.8 Or 3.5

3.8.

These Engines Have A Problem Where The Upper Intake Melts Where The Egr Stove Pipe Comes Through The Lower Intake.there For Flooding The Engine With Coolant And Causing A No Start Condition.pull The Air Inlet Hose Off And Check It For Signs Of Coolant.also No 6 Cylunder Is The Closest To This Problem.pull The Number 6 Plug And Check It For Coolant.if So You Will Have To Replace The Upper Intake.

If you do find coolant in your cylinders change your oil IMMEDIATELY. dont mess around with it, it could cost you your engine. Go out and buy a couple value jugs of SuperTech and get that oil changed.

If you have oil in your cylinders you also have it in your crankcase most likely, and oil and coolant form a lovely acidic mixture that loves to eat away and those precious engine internals.

good job on the intake manifold 355sb, even though ive experienced myself I hadnt thought of that.

But most of the time the engine wont even turn over with coolant in the cylinders, but its worth a shot anyway.

Gentlemen were are getting way ahead here, the engine cranks, no mention of coolant loss, I think the prior suggestions of checking FP and or carb cleaner starts are in order before we suggest an engine overhaul!

You Wont See Any Coolant Loss Because It Is Comsumed By The Engine

You Wont See Any Coolant Loss Because It Is Comsumed By The Engine


True, but that shouldnt cause a no-start condition, if it fails horribly, then yes you will have a no start condition, but youll also have a no crank condition.

Like was said, check the fuel supply first. See if you can hear the pump kicking on.

I Have Seen A Vehicle Crank But Not Start With This Same Problem

The Egr Valve Is Electronic So Dont Look For A Vaccum Line.if It Was Stuck Open It Might Not Start.cylinder No 6 Is The Closest To The Vave Passage And It Would Lean Out Enough To Set A Misfire Code.try Unplugging The Valve And See If It Will Run.also Try Tapping On The Valve With A Hammer Very Lightly And It May Caome Unstuck.


Hi
Sorry for the suggestion that the EGR was vacuum operated - again I have mostly Ford experience. With that said, I looked in my '99 OEM shop manual. In the section on 3.8L engine control, it lists the trouble code descriptions. It lists code 1404 as EGR valve stuck open. For the 3.5L it says 1404 is pintle position. I would focus on the EGR.

Good luck

You Wont See Any Coolant Loss Because It Is Comsumed By The Engine
What are you talking about? The coolant leaks from the cooling system into the engine and is burned thru the cylinders lets say, so the radiator and the coolant jar don't show any loss, it is really getting silly now!

when we removed the egr there was coolant on it does that mean anything? Also we were told to pull a plug and crank the engine to see if water (or coolant) would squirt out which would indicate the intake thing but there was no liquid. Just thought I'd share that. I have not yet checked the fuel pressure as I do not have a gauge but will get one and post results when i do.

also, the car has had a coolant leak for quite awhile it seemed to be coming from the upper radiator hose about a month ago the leak seemed to have fixed itself.... does that mean something?