Help....Will not start

I have been trying to help my little bro... with his car. Now I am not a mechanic but I do know my way around an engine alittle.

Problem started, he said he has had something knocking for about a week. After stopping car it would not restart.

I found out that the knocking was the Harmonic balancer/Pulley (whatever) So replaced that and that fixed the knock but still wouldn't start. Turns over very clean now.

Checked for fuses all fine (but I have schematic for fuses)

I tried to see if getting spark (screwdriver in the plug wire trick) doesn't seem to be getting any spark.

Checked to see if throwing any codes. Only giving code 12. (saying no problems)

I'm out of solutions :banghead: and can't afford mechanic.

If anyone can advise the next step I should take besides using a stick of dynamite (or 2 :evillol: ) please let me know.

Forgot to advise that this is a 87 delta 88 with a 3.8 if that helps.

Good car only has 70k very clean but can't get to start.

Probably beat up the crank sensor when the balancer went bad, take it off again and replace the crank sensor, to confirm this try and scan it and see if you have rpms reading on the scanner when cranking.

Scan it? Is this an expensive part to just replace since I don't have a scanner or know how to do this?

The crank sensor, it's just to the right of the crank and has a slot for the pins on the pulley to pass thru right?

The slots are for the cps pick up the engine rotation , Check this link, but remember this is a maybe, do all the diagnostics you can first. http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/15/e4/2d/0900823d8015e42d.jsp

Way cool..Thanks for all the info.

I second that you have a bad crank sensor. For future reference, this is how you pull codes: http://www.lesabret.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1201

Ok I have replaced the sensor and pulled the positive cable. Put everything back together. still will not start and giving no spark?????

Have I missed a step?

What would be next on the list to check?

Ok I have replaced the sensor and pulled the positive cable. Put everything back together. still will not start and giving no spark?????

Have I missed a step?

What would be next on the list to check?
Well as suggested, diagnostics should be done before proceeding, again do you have 12v to the injectorsand injector pulse. Check the harness from the cps sensor to the ign module also, for pinched, cut or chaffed wires. Take the ign control to a Napa, or Autozone they can do a basic check on it for you. While there get a noid lite to check for injector pulse, they are cheap. You are sure all the ign and pcm fuses are good?

I didn't run any checks. I just replaced the sensor. I don't know to check the injestors. The harness off the cps looked good but didn't track it down back thru the system. I will check for 12v at injectors

The ignition control is this in the column?? I'm not real familar with this vehicle it's my little brothers and I've never work on this type of car so sorry for all the stupid questions and thanks for you help and patience.

Another quick ? .... Why isn't this thing throwing any error codes????

See if you have 12 volts going to the ICM. Remove the wiring harness and connect the positive meter lead to the pink (some years are pink/black) & the black lead to the negative battery terminal. Should have 12 volts while the key is in run position.

Ok, this is what the ICM is and does: http://bellsouthpwp.net/p/a/padgett46/coils.htm

Not all issues will throw codes. The most common ones that don't are the crank sensor, ICM, and coil(s). You did try the paperclip trick and at least got a code 12, right? Otherwise, the SES bulb in the dash cluster may be blown or your ECM (computer) is shot.

I have already checked the codes and It just keeps flashing code 12.

I will check to make sure getting 12v at the pink and black wiring at ICM harness as well as the injectors.

Thanks again for the help. I will check this out when get home tonight and I will post tomorrow what readings I get.

Allright, no codes is a good thing. That narrows your problem down to either spark or fuel. You can pull the ICM and have it taken to an Autozone or O"reily (or similar) and have it tested. You can test teh coils by running the car in darkness and with a pair of INSULATED pliars, remove the plug boots off the coil terminals one by one. If it has no spark or an erratic spark, then your' coil is shot (assuming the ICM checks good).

If those aren't the culprits then you need to check the fuel system. Has the fuel filter been changed? They only last 10-15k miles. Is the relay for the pump operational? Do you have enough fuel pressure at the rail (~40PSI)?

You're getting there. This car really isn't hard to work on once you get the hang of things. I really like the series 1 cars mainly because the engine isn't crammed in the bay too badly....that and the 3800 is almost indestructible :)

ok, I checked voltage to the ICM last night. Here's what I found. First the harness is basically 2 harnesses in one mount that has a little bount to hold it to the ICM. Correct? One side has no black or pink so I didn't bother with that side. The other side however had no solid pink but 2 pink wires both with a black stripe.
Heres the order on the harness to show you what I checked.
slot #1-pink-black/stripe
#2yellow
#3pink black/stripe
#4Black voilet/stripe
#5black white/stripe
#6black
#7green black stripe.

Ok, so when I check from #1 to #6 I get 10.87v
from #3 to #6 .05v

I still need to check the injectors. I will go to town and have the ICM checked parts store.
Should I only be getting 10.87v shouldn't it be 12v or am I losing a little voltage as it flows thru the circuit?

I'm learning alot about this car. Doesn't seem to difficult jsut a little deeper then I would normally know how to fix on my own. And as for this 3800 this is a quick car when its running considering it's all stock and use to be an old ladies car.

Ok problem...:banghead: Napa, Autozone or Napa will check the ICM to verify if good. Any body have a suggestion????:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I know Autozone will for sure. Have them test it several times though to kinda simulate heat build-up (ICM's tend to get flakey with heat-related issues).

Ok problem...:banghead: Napa, Autozone or Napa will check the ICM to verify if good. Any body have a suggestion????:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


I think you have a typo in this post. Are you saying they can't check the ICM?


Here's what you need for spark.
Good Crank sensor/harmonic balancer.
Power to ICM.
Good ICM & coils.
Good plugs & wires.

You've already changed the crank sensor & harmonic balancer. We still can't rule that out because you could have replaced it with a bad part but let's move on for now.

I'm not sure why you said the ICM wiring harness is "basically 2 harnesses in one mount" . It should be one piece with a bolt running through the middle. If I remember correctly the pink/black wire with 12 volts is on the left hand side of the connector. It sounds like your getting 10.87 volts. Is the battery also checking 10.87?

From what we know so far it sounds like the ICM/coils are the prime suspect. Can you put your ICM & coils on another 3.8 car to check them out. If not I'd head to the junk yard & replace both. Actually you can check the resistance of the coils to rule those out. Remove & check the resistance of both the primary & secondary side of the coils. All three readings should be very close.

Have you pulled all six plugs & checked them out?

Junkyard Icm and Coils are really risky.... I've never had any luck getting a good pair. If you know someone else with a 3800 of the same vintage, you can "borrow" thiers to check it. If you do get a junkyard set, you could use them temporarily (if they work at all) untill you can get a new set.

I still think that your icm or coils are shot. If the ICM tests fine, I'd say to go ahead and get some coils. There isn't a grey-green goo coming out of the connector by anychance? Go ahead and pull the coils off the ICM (should be 6 torx screws) and check for goo. If there is goo present, then you have your problem for sure and you'll have to replace both the ICM and coils.

I'm late to this post but has this car have vats system?

I know Autozone will for sure. Have them test it several times though to kinda simulate heat build-up (ICM's tend to get flakey with heat-related issues).

My Dad took part and confirmed didn't take to Autozone... I have ICM now and will personally take to Autozone.

If I remember correctly the pink/black wire with 12 volts is on the left hand side of the connector. It sounds like your getting 10.87 volts. Is the battery also checking 10.87?
I can double check but I think I checked the Battery and its still giving out 12v. I know that I need to put another cahrge on batterso will do and check again.

From what we know so far it sounds like the ICM/coils are the prime suspect. Can you put your ICM & coils on another 3.8 car to check them out. If not I'd head to the junk yard & replace both. Actually you can check the resistance of the coils to rule those out. Remove & check the resistance of both the primary & secondary side of the coils. All three readings should be very close.

No, I don't know anybody with the same car or engine. I have already thought of trying that. How Do I chech the Resistance on the coils. They only have the plug wire on top and 2 connectors on bottoms.


I agree with Alibi I don't want to buy junkyard electric parts this has never worked out for me in the past. I don't mind buying the parts needed to get fix just cant pay the mechanic to do all this and put them on.

Also Alibi.... There is no goo coming out of anything. This engine is very clean. no leaks of anykind or goo leaking out of packs that I have seen. I will double check .

I'm late to this post but has this car have vats system?

VATS???? What's that

Junkyard Icm and Coils are really risky.... I've never had any luck getting a good pair. If you know someone else with a 3800 of the same vintage, you can "borrow" thiers to check it. If you do get a junkyard set, you could use them temporarily (if they work at all) untill you can get a new set.

I still think that your icm or coils are shot. If the ICM tests fine, I'd say to go ahead and get some coils. There isn't a grey-green goo coming out of the connector by anychance? Go ahead and pull the coils off the ICM (should be 6 torx screws) and check for goo. If there is goo present, then you have your problem for sure and you'll have to replace both the ICM and coils.

Alright the ICM checks out good. tested it about 10 times. Besides it will not start even when cold so getting it to warm up should make no difference.

When I get home tonight I will Ohm out the primary and secondary side of coils...
I was advised that the primary side should have about .3 resistance and secondary side should have around 4.1 (I have written down in car). This is correct???? I will also double check all fuses, wires and battery. Any other suggestions???

Primary side should readings should be around .5 to 1 ohm. Secondaries should be around 5,000 to 10,000 ohms.

The goo is caused by a bad Coil, but it doesn't always happen when a coil goes bad.

Since the ICM checks good, I'd say your next culprit is the coil. Are all the mounting bolts to the ICM snug? Are all the battery cables clean and free of corrosion?

The VATS system is a flakey GM security system...I don't think it was available until '92 but I could be wrong. I doubt that the 89 would have come factory equipped with it (or at least I've neve seen/owned one).

Ok here we go.. I ohm the coils they are good. So I start over....My borhter checked the fuses before and advised no problem.. worng... found a blown. fuse. Problem is that I don't have a fuse diagram for the fuse box..

The fuse is in the #10 slot on the fuse panel. If I turn over the car it starts for about a half a second dies and this fuse is blown. I rechecked the wires going to the Crank sensor and they are rough. 1 wire is exsposed right at the harness and another about an inch up. I tape them up real good tries to start again ,, same thing :-(

Anyone know what this #10 fuse is or can you post pic of a fuse diagram for a 87 Delta 88 royale ..........

Any ideals on what this fuse is for? Again I can get the car to start but only runs for a milla second and then dies.. When I check fuse #10 it is blown.
The fuses are number 1 thru 20 something fuse #10 is the one that keeps blowing.
Any ideal what is the weak link in that circuit to check for or known problem areas. I don't what to go tearing into the dash if there is common place to look first.

I found a wiring diagram that shows fuse #10 is for an 'alarm module'. Looks like the alarm module works with a 'low coolant module'.

There should be a wire by the battery that goes to the fuel pump. You can check for 12 volts going to the fuel pump by connecting your volt meter to this wire & the negative battery terminal. Should have 12 volts for a couple seconds when the key is in the run position & should have a constant 12volts while cranking.

You can also check for fuel injector pulse with a #194 light bulb. Straighten the wires on the bulb & insert into one of the fuel injector connectors. The bulb should 'pulse' while cranking. By 'pulse' I mean it will never light completely or go out completely. It will just glow at different brightness.