$9,000....on a 2gnt, what to do....?

Just a heads up....lets see what a streetable 420a can do.

(all gaskets, bolts, and hoses excluded)
Garrett GT30R Dual BB (.82ar)
"Used" Sloboy FMIC
All hard piping
Tial Waste Gate 40mm
Tial BOV
Wiesco 8.8:1 pistons
Crower H-Beams
Crane Valves (+1mm)
Titanium Springs + retainers
5-angle valve job
P+P Head
Crower Stage 2 Cams
Cam Gears (not sure which to get with yet)
Walbro 255lph
MSnS + laptop
KYB Springs on TEIN Adj. Shocks (~2" drop)
"Custom" #" Turboback exhaust
Zeitronix Wideband
P+P Stock Intake Mani
Fluidyne Radiator
DSS Axles
880cc PTE Injectors
'02 Neon Tranny (5spd) with 3.55 Final Gear
60mm TB

Cheesy nickname my little brother came up with out of nowhere was the "ApocEclipse"...kinda clever I guess.

I think that about covers it. Sorry for the horrible order the list was made in, but oh well.

Feedback welcome! Ordering starts next week, project begins once ALL parts arrive. Pictures whenever.

wish i had money to throw away like you do...

I admire the fact that your doing something different and unique, but it seems like a waste. Like many people will say, with $9k you can make any car fast.

Have fun, and take lots of pictures...

I agree. Progress of your N/A 420a to a turbo 420a would be awesome if you catologed it in pictures. Be sure to take tons of pictures and post them up.

Shit Mike, stop being such a hater all the time.

Here's my two cents. $9,000 is a LOT of money and can do miraculous things if you do it wisely. Unfortunately, I would have to say that turboing a NT FWD is not one of those "wise" things. Yeah, it would be pretty cool but seriously man, that is going to be like a 450 hp monster on the front two wheels. You will need an LSD and some pretty nice streetable slicks to do that setup any justice. Heres what I would do with $9000: Make a beast of a AWD. On a 1ga 9 grand will go way farther since you already have a 6 bolt and the car is already a lot lower. Believe me man, you will not regret it. I would keep your NT as a DD though, when you get a turbo DSM you realize how nice a DD is... and dont think a built 420a wont get problems, my buddy with the turbo'd 420a Neon as had his entire car ripped apart 3-4 times in the past two summers. You could build yourself a pretty solid 11 second car with like $4000 well put dollars including the car.

Wow, 9,000 is a lot to spend on that. I will only have like 7,000 into my motor, tranny, and setup and it will make just as much power if not more and take a lot more abuse... I think I am over the 9,000 mark though if I include everything else non-performance wise.

Good luck with it and be sure to take lots of pictures. We all love pictures, ain't that right guys? :wink:

dont listen to thor...buy a 2g awd not a 1g, they are ugly and u cant pull broads with an ugly car.

haha jk thor...
but it is a fact u can pull more chicks with a 2g than a 1g just for the record.

Give gstclips a cookie and a medal! He is right about the 2g and the chicks

OH yeah...and a quaiffe LSD :)

If I wanted an AWD monster, i'd get a 3kGT VR4, which will hopefully be my next one once I pull out myself of debt. (I don't care how heavy they are.)

It's my money, i'll "waste" it if I want, i've heard dozens of people criticize their asses off (420a-T < 4g63t, not worth it, etc.), and for some reason i'm still just as eager to spend a rediculous amount of money on my 9 1/2 year old 4cyl FWD car. Maybe it's sentimental, maybe it's the fact that any decent 2g TSi/GSX isn't an affordable option around here (ranging from $7-15k for a 2gb, leaving me no money to mod), perhaps i'm building a top end beast and don't want the drive train loss from a 60mph roll, or maybe I am the idiot people make me out as; who knows. Also, I know i'll have problems with it, I would expect problems on anything that's had the internals and/or ECU fiddled around with, it's all part of the game. Oh, as for a dd, i'll just heap around town in the ol' Civic DX if it's still alive. Although I do plan on driving this car on every nice day that I can.

Thanks to those who support it ungrudgingly, and MIGHT be able to see what i'm TRYING to achieve here.

Oh well, hate it or love it, i'll keep you posted.

...and just for anyone who might take intrest to this, COMPLETELY finished (powertrain, drivetrain, wheels/tires/suspension, paint, interior, audio, all of it), even with the little nit-picky costs here and there that I haven't estimated into the price, i'll "only" have about $13k sunk into this car; and yes that is including the cost of the car.

Later.

Your money your car who cares whatever one else thinks.

:1: i wanna see the pics too! good luck man! this could be a huge success... or a catastrophe... your going to need all the luck you can get!:thumbsup:

Well Hpnotiq86, you did ask for feedback didnt you? Yes you did so dont get your panties in a twist when you get something you didnt want to hear. I didnt say that it would be a bad project, but someone ready to drop 9 grand obviously wants a fast car and AWD is the best way to handle that. Also, theres that guy in Canada willing to sell his 2ga AWD for $1500 (in the classifieds) so you could buy that, do the 2gb swap, drop a 6 bolt in, and build it and it would still beat the FWD. Just my two cents, take it for what it is (not very much). Anyway, good luck with the build, I would definately like to see some pictures and videos.

And gstclips, girls like a winner right? We'll see where the girls are after my purple 1ga waxes your pretty 2gb ass. :thefinger

;)

9 grand for a neon motor...makes no sense..

And gstclips, girls like a winner right? We'll see where the girls are after my purple 1ga waxes your pretty 2gb ass. :thefinger

;)
And while you two sit on the line arguing about it, I'll be waiting at the finish with all the ladies loaded up in my car already. lol

:wink:

HAHA, well let me just say that in allll this time that you guys have had your car in the shop or building or whatever you call it I call it BUSTED, and for now it's the guys with the WORKING cars who have to make up for your absence in the girl picking up category.

doesnt hahn racraft have a 420a that will smoke your 4g63t,,so i wouldnt say not worth it,420a is a good engine.Go to the hahn website and see what they will tell you about the pointless 420a lol. edit: well i got the info for you.

During this period, we were surprised and pleased to learn that the 420A looked promising and amazingly modern when inspected internally. As it is a truly new engine (1995 was its introduction), its CAD design and contemporary design improvements were apparent upon close inspection. The design concepts we noted in the 420A suggested strongly that our current and future power and durability aspirations should meet with success:

A very strong bedplate four-bolt main lower end design appeared quite capable of handling much higher than stock HP. This bedplate design means the engine block actually separates into two sections along the crankshaft centerline, rather than the more conventional and much weaker practice of using separate main bearing caps. This design is typically used only on high output motorcycle or automotive (Suzuki, Viper, Porsche, Ferrari, etc.) engines.

Direct Crank Trigger ignition adds accuracy to spark timing. A strong, knife-edge crankshaft comes standard.

The Lotus-designed four valve cylinder head not only flowed well stock, it also exhibited excellent detonation control from modern port / chamber design and well executed cooling.

Mahle pistons, well known for their quality, added durability to the package. The more we analyzed this engine, the better it looked!

In the first year of testing, we studied the effects of our Stage I and II turbosystems on completely stock engines. This long term testing was crucial to determining the safe upgrade limits for these otherwise stock engines and drivetrains. Over thousands of street miles through all types of climates, with dozens of drag strip passes in between, our prototypes were put through their paces. The stock engines proved quite well suited to the 250 to 275 HP that our Stage II kit produces.

After a year of successful turbosystem and durability development with the stock engines, the time had come to explore the next level. With a target of 375-400 HP, new engines were prepared with forged pistons and billet connecting rods. One was installed in our Eclipse, another in the Neon. These units were carefully assembled, but were intentionally left otherwise completely stock except for the pistons and rods. We also upgraded the fuel systems to full programmable units, while adding a more powerful ignition amplifier. These changes allowed the turbo and intercooler that are standard in Stage I and II systems to run higher boost and produce their maximum airflow of almost 400HP.



We then power was sufficient to land our 2400 lb. Neon squarely into the 11.7 second /119-mph quarter mile range, while still maintaining daily driveability. As a matter of fact, this car has always been driven, not towed, to the dragstrip! The engine proved quite docile, yet still very willing, during street use on pump gas at low boost. The addition of higher-octane fuel and higher boost allows 400HP, all while retaining daily driven dependability. The performance value of the Neon was stunning: the total investment, including the purchase of the 1996 car, was still under $15,000 for a genuine, daily-driveable, late-model eleven second car which still gets great gas mileage in daily driving! The performance per dollar approaches that of a modern sportbike. Needless to say, the Neon was responsible for a lot of jaw-dropping at the local dragstrips.



The next step in power, was tested with our Eclipse RS. In addition to the fuel system and engine internal mods, we added a larger intercooler and converted the turbo to Super 20G specs. Remapping of the programmable fuel system we had previously installed allowed us to take advantage of the additional airflow provided by the larger turbo and front-mounted intercooler. Here the 420A engine proved itself yet again: it was now producing 450+HP, enough to propel the 2900 lb. Eclipse to 122 MPH in 11.7 seconds. Yet the car is compliant and cooperative in street driving, still wears air conditioning and goes anywhere!



It is important to note that our 375+HP Neon and 450+HP Eclipse 420A engines are still stock in terms of airflow. For the sake of turbosystem economy and simplicity, as well as good street manners, we decided to explore the maximum amount of power available while still blowing through a stock throttle body, intake manifold, cylinder head, cams and valves. The outcome is impressive, to say the least. Although the durability improvement provided by the piston and rod upgrades is essential to the use of these engines over 300HP, the pistons and rods do not help produce more power. The power gains are strictly achieved through the capabilities of the HRC turbo and fuel systems. 450+HP is enough for most, and readily achievable. Yet a brave few will try to imagine what results could be achieved with the addition of cylinder head / manifold improvements!


For Hahn RaceCraft, the next step will be to do just that. Our continuing development of the 420A will now explore what we can achieve when we are not limiting ourselves to the 450 or so HP airflow of the stock components. Moving effectively to the next level prompts us to finally take off the stock manifold and other parts that had performed so well to date. It's a bittersweet moment, for while we look forward to the huge power gains enabled by the new parts, we will miss the outright simplicity, ease and affordability of the stock parts. No matter. In order to maintain our position as the authority on these engines under high output, we will now forge ahead to ever-higher power levels. The information learned as we cross the 500HP mark will continue to benefit all of our 420A Turbosystems and engine components. We plan to persist until we have achieved the 400+HP per liter of engine displacement we have achieved with some of our other notable engine programs.

P.S.: The transaxle these engines are coupled to is a nice piece in its own right. Its durability definitely makes the engine's strong points even more viable. In the worst case scenario we've been able to come up with, our 98 Eclipse RS has withstood thousands of miles of turbocharged street use and 11.7 second quarter miles. It weighs about 2900 lbs. with driver and has a completely stock transaxle, uses slicks at the track and has had ZERO transmission issues. I've never missed a gear in it in over a hundred dragstrip passes. It's a perfect marriage with the Stage IV clutch we provide. I drive it hard, and if it holds up to what I dish out, then it's a durable gearbox! The fact that the stock components have held up to this brutal power level for so long is evidence of the durability that you can expect

You missed the point here... Who the fuck cares about hahn race craft and their overpriced POS kits they sell. Their car is slow thinking about how much money is dumped into it.

$9k (plus he already has the car) is going to get him into a 11s if het gets slicks and can drive. Most likely it will be an 12 second car.

For $9k, if you know what you are doing, you can build a low 9 sec car easily. I have about $5k into my car right now, (including the price of the shell) everything is done except the fuel and tranny. I need to spend another $1000 for a mechanical fuel pump and another 4 - 1600's. Ok so there is $6k, add another $3k for a magnus dog box or a built shep tranny and I'll have a low 9 sec car.

Hahns RS-T runs an 10.87. That is pathetic for how much money they have in that car. Why go that route when you can get another car, keep the n/t for a daily driver and have a nice 2g AWD that will run a 10 on the street? Its like wiping before you shit... Doesnt make any sense.



*Disclaimer... This is my opinion and what I have experianced!*

lol,ook

lol,ook

Wow... That post was highly educational. What, you cant post a come back cause you know I'm right, so, "lol,ook" is all you can come up with? Way to go postwhore. Immaturaty at its best right there! BTW: It should read "Lol, ook." Read the rules. :smooch:

To add to what I said earlier, you could by a nice 2g in fact for $4k and still run a 10 with $5k in mods using the stock tranny and drivetrain. That shit takes up a lot of money. Hell for less than $9k you could by an Eclipse/Talon that already has the power for 11s. Its all about how much work you want to do. I like building cars from scratch, something to be more proud of knowing that you are the reason it is the way it is.

I'm not saying "DO NOT" turbo the 420a. I'm just saying think about the other "easier" options here. Having another car isnt that bad of a deal either. Then you aren't without a car while you build it up. Taking into consideration that you dont already have another car to use. Like I said before, I'm just giving my opinion.

dude what is your problem????? are you gonna post some asshole remark everytime i post.Who are you the dsm god.Im not 17 dude so if you think im gonna go back and forth with you your crazy,grow up.i dont know your age but i would guess your in your teens,so fuck off dude.Your gay!!

Yea but look at his car. I think he knows a thing or two. Last time I saw a turbo that big they were using the vent from the BOV to lift up girls skirts.

dude what is your problem????? are you gonna post some asshole remark everytime i post.Who are you the dsm god.Im not 17 dude so if you think im gonna go back and forth with you your crazy,grow up.i dont know your age but i would guess your in your teens,so fuck off dude.Your gay!!

Immaturaty at its best AGAIN! I dont have a problem, you seem to though. Lets see, I'm 21, you're 28, yet you still dont know how to use grammar or spell correctly. You say your not going to "go back and forth with me" but yet you still do. You tell me to grow up, when you are the one getting all butt hurt on how I ALWAYS prove you wrong then you turn around and bash me. Were you dropped? I think you are the one that needs to grow up... Damn.

BTW: If you think I have a problem, what was the reason for your "lol,ook" post if you think I am being unreasonable? :rolleyes:


Stevie... Yes I know quite a bit about these cars. I have been working on them for the last 8 years of my life. I build motors for a living, work, race, and tune a lot of cars every year. I've been through it all. Just because my "Join date" isnt 8 years ago, doesnt mean I'm a newbie.

I have delt with turboing the 420a and for the money its worthless unless you have some sort of attachment to your car. You can get much better and a lot nicer car for the same money. Experiance will get you a lot farther than know-it-all's. For example, who would you go with, a brain surgeon with 15 years experiance and a lot of surgeries or a kid fresh out of college who hasnt done shit but has read a lot about it and has practiced on fake/dead patients? Point made.

:lol: This thread is great.

Yeah, I know two guys with turbo'd 420a's. One is a fast car and a hell of a sleeper, the other is a ricer with a cosigner. They guy with the fast car (95ish 420a neon) said that if he would do it again, it would have been to a first gen AWD. hes probably just skirting the 11's now and has had a LOT of money into it. Whatever though man.

And gstclips, girls like a winner right? We'll see where the girls are after my purple 1ga waxes your pretty 2gb ass. :thefinger

;)

hey thor, Im brewin up some crazy shit on my car...If you would like to schedule race, im game:lol2: . I am pretty backed up with girls...the way its lookin the race will have to be in about 8 months.
U know since I have a 2g all the girls want in on this sexy and fast red 2g :lol: :lol:

:lol: I'd race. I too will need a few months. I think I will be home at the very end of april and hopefully by the end of May I will have the rebuild done, gotten my ECU back from DSMlink, gotten my FMIC installed, and all the other misc parts I will have accumulated. By then I will be set up to be damn near maxing my turbo out, I hope you get your shit in a pile by then. What are you running anyway? I am having second toughts on the 50 trim, I might just go with a evo III 16g but I dont think I will have that for a while.

U know since I have a 2g all the girls want in on this sexy and fast red 2g :lol: :lol:
I think your getting yours confused with mine now. lol :wink:

lol,ookk was cuz i thought your post was funny.wiping before you shit.I wasnt being an ass,but now that i can see your an asshole its cool.and wow you know more about cars than me good job bro.im not a mechanic never said i was.And its cool that you know alot about cars but that doesnt mean your not a dick.and yes grow up,for a couple weeks now you have posted behind me with some wiseass remark.I never said nothing to you ,but to be honest do what you want.If you wanna post behind me with an asshole comment than do it.but dont use your knowledge of cars as an excuse to be an asshole.wanna keep being a child go for it,but for shpyders sake im done. I have been here alot longer than you so yes i know the rules.

The first rule of fight club is you do not talk about fight club
Does anyone want me to say the second rule?

lol,ookk was cuz i thought your post was funny.wiping before you shit.I wasnt being an ass,but now that i can see your an asshole its cool.and wow you know more about cars than me good job bro.im not a mechanic never said i was.And its cool that you know alot about cars but that doesnt mean your not a dick.and yes grow up,for a couple weeks now you have posted behind me with some wiseass remark.I never said nothing to you ,but to be honest do what you want.If you wanna post behind me with an asshole comment than do it.but dont use your knowledge of cars as an excuse to be an asshole.wanna keep being a child go for it,but for shpyders sake im done. I have been here alot longer than you so yes i know the rules.

FWIW... This is going to be a little off topic.

Yep... I know I'm an asshole. Never said I wasnt a Dick. I'm working on the growing up part, every second of every day I grow up just a little bit more.

I will do what I want, not like you are going to stop me. There is no rule about me following you around and posting behind you everywhere you go, just might do it to annoy you even more. I never said you were a mechanic, but you dont need to be a mechanic to take a damn valve cover off... Talk about newb, asking how many bolts there are, go fucking count. Sure everyone has to learn but you dont need to ask a million and 1 questions about it, including what you asked.

About me following you around for the last couple weeks... You are full of shit, I posted 2 comments directed towards you being a douche, cause you are. That was on August 29th, one at 5:20pm and one at 5:47pm. Since then I havent posted in a single thread except this one that you have posted in. I dont follow you around, I could and point out everything about your post that is wrong but I have better shit to do than babysit you on the forum.

I thought you werent going to go back and forth with me on this? You know the rules? Shit, I know the rules too but I got you beat... I ACTUALLY FOLLOW THEM! And you have been here how much longer than me but you still cant understand that? I'm glad you're done. Now I dont have to follow you around anymore! :rolleyes:

Have a great day!

Love,

The Asshole

Ok, so Joe posts some education about the potential of the 420A and Eklips rips his head off? Why? He was just showing that the engine is not just a piece of shit Neon engine, that it does have potential, and what the starter of this thread is doing is not such a bad idea.

:rofl: Ned... let it die. The simple truth is that a 4g63 car will be faster than a 420a car dollar for dollar. 'Nuff said.

I didnt rip anyones head off... I just get sick of people talking about how hahns RS-T is so cool when there are neons with the same motor that are faster. Hahn is so overrated, people just dont understand it and that is why they have so expensive kits and people buy them. Everyone thinks they are the shit.

OO trust me they are the shit....
aha no your right tho, if they were so great and everyone bought them they would be selling for cheaper...

:rofl: Ned... let it die.

Neva!!!!

hahahah wow man,the valve cover thing was a awile ago and i wanted to make sure i did it right,whats the problem and what makes you think i need to explain this to you.I will ask whatever i want and dont care if you play the vagina and run behind me and point out everything you want.I dont really care what issue you have with me,tough deal with it.There are thousands of people on here who always will do stuff other people dont like.If my questions arnt up to your car skill level then dont answer,but dont asume that your cool or have a higher status cuz you sit and jerk off to your car all night cuz you dont.i wasnt even talking to you when i posted that hahn stuff.so stop being a pussy and suck it up not everyone on here is trying to soup up there car so its a speed machine,we all dont know as much as you wow your so cool.and please i invite you to post behind me and be an ass as you are,it just shows how much of jackoff you really are.Have a good day little girl.and as far as i know everyone is welcome on here,people of all skill levels so if you have a problem with this than go somewhere else.Later buddy
the adult ~joe

Word

deff. post whore action right here

Joe and E-Klips, if you're going to run this thread on, at least keep the childish bitching to a PM or something. Yes, we all have to flame sometimes, but geezus christ you guys, you're both acting like little schoolgirls. I've been gone for the past few weeks and this is the first thing I come back to? Awesome. Way to go guys! :thumbsup:

I wasnt acting like school girl. He was acting like because he has been here longer than I have he doesnt have to follow rules... I was stating facts.

What do I care if you were gone for the past few weeks? Am I trying to impress you? Nope. So who fucking cares if this is the first thing you come back to. Move on, quit your bitchin'.

Thread closed. Disgusting.

First off. Calm down E-Klips. Your'e reaction to joe's suggested "post-whoring" that was later qualified to be a misunderstanding as joe explained it, could definitely have been less provoking. And joe, it's better to quit ahead and forget delving deeper into mediocrity by way of an on-line firefight. Sometimes, arguments happen between two grown men that leads to such petty and silly marathons, that were the air given sufficient time to clear, I am sure both parties would be ashamed of such low conduct. Crunchy and I had a spat not too long ago, but it was resolved almost as soon as it started. Pity that it took a third party to alert moderator attention in this case, though luckily before folks started purchasing popcorn and front-row seats to watch you two at it.

Secondly, everyone has opinions. The presentation of these opinions is a most welcome addition to our forums by it's many members. And so is the critique of such opinions, done in a tactful way with an explanation. In schools of debate and declamation, you present your thesis, and back it up with details. When you are done, you hear the other party out. There are several chances of civilized rebuttal, and then everyone goes home happy.

Also. Mind the language guys. Though this isnt pre-school, there's still way too much "fuckin" going around, and has been dually noted by admin and moderators. Let's keep things civilized please.