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98 Voyager 3.8L electrical problem


lafever1
09-20-2006, 11:18 AM
This problem started about 9 months ago.

Symptoms:

The parking lights are on all the time even though the light switch is off once the vehicle is started.
When the parking lights or headlights are turned on, the left turn signal dash console light stays on and is lit solid. It goes off if parking or headlights are turned off once the vehicle is running.
THe right turn signal is not affected by this problem.
When the parking lights or headlights are turned on, the left turn signal lights both front and back dim slightly with a different blinking frequency than the right. It appears like no left turn signal at all.
After a few minutes driving with parking or headlights(p/h) on, the dinger indicating that a turn signal is still on starts going even if the left turn signal is not on.
The only way to stop the dinger is to turn off the p/h lights for about 2 seconds.
The dinger problem occurs every time the p/h lights and long trips require constant turning off light switch many times.
If p/h lights are turned off, turn signals work normally.Troubleshooting:
-The only way to stop the problem I have found is to remove the parking lights relay. However, this kills panel lights and causes other undesirable effects and is not acceptable.
-I tried taking out the turn signal bulbs and trying each singly with the other removed but the problem still occurs.

Any help would be appreciated. It's really annoying driving at night! Thank you.

RIP
09-20-2006, 01:01 PM
Wow! Sounds like the gremlins have convened a convention in your van. A few things to try:
> Without clicking it wiggle the turn signal lever on the steering column just to see if it changes anything.
> Check all the bulb sockets for corrosion. Clean with electrical contact cleaner or alcohol and a brush and compressed air. Using a multimeter, measure the resistance of each sockets ground. One lead to the outer shell of the socket the other to to any bare metal. Should be 0 ohms or no resistance. Change the bulbs.
> Make the problem appear then tap the combination flasher. It's on the front face of the Junction Block (fuse panel) at the bottom of the dash left of the steering column. Remove it and reinstall it. Consider replacing it.
> Got a hunch this is where your problem lies. The Body Control Module is mounted on the back side of the Junction Block. It controls most of the electrical functions of the van. It is infamous for creating ghostly electrical problems. The first step in dealing with a BCM problem is to pull the IOD fuse (in power distribution center next to battery) for five minutes then reinstall it. This sometimes resets the the circuit within and cures a problem. It's tough to get to but try tapping on the BCM and reseating the connectors. If you want to change it they cost around $300-400. There are used ones to be had. You must get the exact part number replacement. Some model years have several.

Are you seeing any other electrical problems that effect interior lighting, power windows or front and rear wipers?

lafever1
09-20-2006, 03:13 PM
I haven't seen any other problems other than what I described. I'll try some of these and get back to you. THank you!

lafever1
09-20-2006, 03:50 PM
I just located what I believe is the control block.
It's next to the fuse block and it's gray and 8" long X 6" wide X 2" deep?
I unplugged both plugs and turned on the lights and the same problem occured.
I'll try the bulb/ground trick next and replace the bulbs.
How big is the combination flasher?

lafever1
09-20-2006, 04:41 PM
OK.

It took me a few minutes to understand that the directions.
I am confused: Is there a junction box on the inside the car and a junction block in the engine compartment?
Is the BCM in engine compartment or inside the car?
What is the IOD fuse?

ggratecc
09-20-2006, 05:50 PM
Hi,
RIP is really an expert on these vehicles, so listen to him.

Here are two things to try , if you have not already done so.
1. Disconnect battery for a few minutes, then reconnect.
(This way you don't need to know where the IOD fuse is.)

2. Make sure the recall for the clockspring has been accomplished.

RIP
09-20-2006, 11:38 PM
[SIZE="4"]OK.

It took me a few minutes to understand that the directions.
I am confused: Is there a junction box on the inside the car and a junction block in the engine compartment?
Is the BCM in engine compartment or inside the car?
What is the IOD fuse?


It's easy to get confused when you're frustrated working on these vans. I've said it a thousand times, I highly, highly highly, recommend you squeeze $17.00 out of your wallet and buy a Haynes or Chilton's manual for your van. It will be one of the best investments you'll ever make. Even if you don't do your own maintenance, it will give you a clue of what a mechanic is talking about so you can avoid that "deer in the headlights" gaze.

Answers:
>There is no "junction box" on the inside of the car. There is no "junction block" in the engine compartment. As I stated in the post, "the Junction Block is at the bottom of the dash to the left of the steering column". That puts it inside the car.
> The BCM is inside the car. As I stated in the post, " the BCM is mounted to the back side of the Junction Block".
> The IOD fuse stands for "ignition off draw". It is located in the Power Distribution Center or PDC. The PDC is located next to the battery in the engine compartment. Chrysler in their infinite wisdom labeled the PDC "Fuse and Relay Panel" on the cover. Remove the cover. The IOD fuse in my 96 GC is labeled 10A Memory IOD. The fuse sits in a yellow holder for easy removal.
The purpose of this fuse is to supply power to the BCM. I've read that Chrysler pulls the fuse at the factory prior to shipping the van so that the BCM and it's circuit components don't drain the battery during shipment. When the van arrives at the dealership, a mechanic reinstalls the fuse.

If the grey 8"x6"x2" box you found was inside the car under the dash on the back of the Junction Block then yes you found the BCM.. The combination flasher is on the same Junction Block the BCM was on. The flasher is located on the front of the Junction Block towards the top on the right side. Your car manual should ID it for you. Make sure you change the combination flasher before you feel you have to go for a new BCM. In fact, before you feel the need to spend big bucks based on what some boob on the otherside of the country is typing on a computer, have another set of at least somewhat car savvy eyes and hands look at your van. It's easy to overlook this or that when you're hundreds of miles away. That goes for any info you get from a forum.


Quick Reference:

Junction Block - Under dash left of steering column inside the car. Has relays and fuses on the front. Combination Flasher is on the front right side towards top. BCM is mounted on the back side.

Power Distribution Center or PDC - Located in engine compartment next to battery and labeled Fuse and Relay Panel on the cover. IOD fuse sits in a yellow holder.

If you wind up having to remove the BCM here is a good reference: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=620636

ggratec is right. You can disconnect the battery to reset the BCM, however, you also reset the memory in the Powertrain Control Module. This erases stored memory info that effects your engine and transmisssion. I'll admitt I've disconnected the battery several times and have not seen a problem. However, I've read about huge problems arrissing afterwords for other folks. That's why I don't recommend disconnecting the battery just to reset the BCM. I would recommend you avoid it when possible.

BTW - I was born and raised in Michigan City. Just a hop skip and jump north of you.

RIP
09-21-2006, 01:06 AM
ggratec - thanks for the "expert" comment. Truth is I know a good bit about certain systems. There's others I don't know squat about. For those labeled squat, I just read the info out of a book and pass it on. This one is a combo of both. Cheers!

lafever1
09-21-2006, 10:17 AM
Thanks for your help everyone! I think I found the

Here's what I did to resolve the problem that didn't resolve the problem:

Replaced the parking front bulbs.
Cleaned out the bulb connectors
Took out the IOD fuse for 5 minutes and replaced.
Located the turn signal flasher(found it by feeling the clicking when the turn signal is on). Tapped it and reinstalled to no avail.
Disconnected the lamp sockets from the wire plug.
Went to the power distribution center in the engine block and swapped the parking lamp replay and 40A fuse.
Jiggled and wiggled the turn signal control.
Unplugged the front bulbs, bulb sockets, BCM plugs, combination flasher, and when I turn on the lights the problem still occurs?

Should I check the back bulbs?

KManiac
09-21-2006, 11:55 PM
After reading through these posts I offer the following comments.

I think your problem is something as simple as a bad ground on either the front parking/turn signal light assembly or the rear taillight assembly. If the running light/taillight circuit does not ground correctly to the body, it could ground through the turn signal circuit, causing the turn signal indicators to light up with voltage coming from the wrong direction.

I once had a similar situation on my 1971 Dodge Charger. With the headlights or parking lights on, the dashboard turn signal indicator for the left turn signal would glow at about one-half standard intensity. It would come and go. Years later, when the headlights were on, I noticed the left parking light was out and the left turn signal light on the dash glowing full bright. When I touched the parking light assembly, the parking light came back on and the dash light had gone out. I found the mounting screws for the light assembly missing, causing an intermittent loss of electrical ground for the lights. I installed new screws and the turn signal never glowed again.

That is my two-cents worth. Check your connections both front and rear and see if it has an effect.

RIP
09-22-2006, 01:19 AM
Kmaniacs experience shows the squirrely things that happen when a ground isn't quite there. I think you checked the front socket grounds correct? Check the rear grounds if you haven't already. If they are good then...

You might want to attack this differently since the obvious components appear to be ok. You could troubleshoot this one symptom at a time. The easiest appears to be the first one you stated. "The parking lights stay on even with the parking light switch off". Either they are getting power from an unintended source or the switch really isn't off. First, consider checking the headlight/parking light switch. How?

If somebody out there has the factory schematics and chimes in you could avoid doing the following.

Unfortunately, my Haynes manual doesn't even show the switch in the circuit on the schematic. It does have a procedure to check continuity through the contacts of the switch. The downside is you have to remove the switch which can be a bear and would be a lot easier if you had a manual. First you have to disconnect the battery so you don't blow an airbag. You have to remove both the upper and lower steering column covers so you can then remove the instrument cluster bezel. Once you have disconnected the switch, you need to check continuity between contacts on the smaller 7 pin connector on the back of the switch.

With the switch off, if you get continuity (zero ohms) between pins 2 and 8 you have found the problem. Pin 2 to pins 5,6,7, or 8 should all be open (infinte ohms). Pin 2 to pin 1 should give you 5 ohms. Make sure you have the black(-) lead on pin 2. There is a diode in the switch that could screw up the readings.

lafever1
09-23-2006, 09:43 PM
I'm going to try checking the grounds next. Back later.

Stevo2
09-25-2006, 04:21 AM
Does your truck have/had Daytime Running Lights or DRL?

sounds like something is telling the park lamp relay to activate when it shouldnt or the relay is stuck. Try swapping it with another relay next to it that has the same part number and see what happens. Be sure to keep track of what relays went into what positions originally.

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