Fast 4 door sedans worthy of street racing

I am right now thinking between 4 fast 4 door cars under $25,000 US. The four are - Mazdaspeed Protege, Nissan SE-R Spec V, Dodge SRT-4, Subaru Impreza WRX Sedan, and VW Jetta GLS in the order of favorite to least favorite. Which one should I get? What is the fastest? And are there any other fast 4 door sedans that are worthy of racing?

My advice, wait until we get the 4Motion Jetta. Out of those you listed, I would lean towards the Subaru for the handling possibilities, they have good handling stock, with a 1 inch drop, it's a great daily driver. Also, it's the only non frontwheel drive car there, if you ever want to drive it fast...

Then again, the Mazdaspeed Protege is an MP3 with a turbocharger, and I have a whole new respect for the handling of the MP3.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/articleDisplay.asp?articleID=220

you are going to get a lot of different answers, but here are mine

1. Jetta GLI I believe it is called
2. Nissan SE-R spec-V
3.Mazdaspeed protege
4. WRX(I hate them, they are ugly as sin, that's why it's #4)
5.Dodge neon SRT-4(yeah I know it's supposed to be fast and whatnot, but it's still a NEON for cryin out loud).

I know guys with 1.8T jettas with triptronic (automatic) transmissions they have only a few mods. GIAC Chip, K&N FPIK, 3" down pipe, test pipe, 3" exhaust, blow off valve and run 12.9's at 109mph. Those other cars you listed suck and are slow (except the WRX it's turbo too).

Do yourself a favour and start with a car that is turbo. Going fast on a turbo car is easy. NA cars suck. I have had 3 turbo cars and would never go back to a regular normally aspirated car ever.:D

Nice Talon Jim!

The SRT4 will be quite a fast car once tuners get ahold of it.

The 1.8T is miles ahead of anything else you list there, it is a masterpiece of technology. Say what you will about Honda B series motors, they are in the stone age compared to the 1.8

Audi originally started the production of high static compression turbo motors, and the 1.8T is a more developed version of those motors. It makes it's peak torque at 2000 rpm, and holds it until around 4000, where it starts to trail off.

The only problem, front wheel drive. That's why I recommend the WRX. If you can wait for the 4Motion Jetta, get one.

Street Racer_00, I don't want to single you out, but you've completely forgotten about the 1st gen Neon ACR. We're talking about a street legal coupe or sedan (the sedan was actually 75lbs lighter than the coupe and more rigid) that had 175hp stock and came with Koni adjustable shocks at all corners for $14,000 new. Those things own D production. And if you don't want a buckboard ride, $12,995 would have taken you out the door with a new Neon Sport Coupe with the DOHC engine making 160hp stock. The ACR computer cost about $175, then tack on a Mopar header, K&N air filter, larger throttle body (also from Mopar) and you've got a 210hp 2.0 with a mean bark to it. I should know, it's what my Dad drives every day. All for less than a new Civic. Now, we both admit there's still problems with the Neon. First off, they've got a bad tendency to shed power-steering belts under severe cornering and they have bad understeer to boot, though some autocrossers figured out that a few degrees of toe in on the rear tires cures that in a heartbeat, but it costs tires too.

Chrysler has been in the pocket rocket game almost as long as Honda and certainly longer than Mazda or Subaru. In fact, it's only seniors are Nissan (the Datsun 510) and Volkwagen (GTI, even as the Rabbit it kicked ass). The first truly stellar Dodge pocket rocket, and Polygon can back me up on this, was the Dodge Omni (yes, it was a K-car) GLH (Goes Like Hell) as tuned by the Texas chicken farmer hisownself, Carroll Shelby. These little monstrosities were stripped down to 2100lbs, beefed up with Z-rated Goodyear Gatorbacks, 2 inch sway bars, front and back, heavy duty springs, five lug aluminum wheel with disc brakes all around, balanced chrome-moly halfshafts, and rack-and-pinion steering, and were powered up with hot cams, balanced cranks, fuel injection (this was back when base Omnis were carburetted), headers, and there were two turbo models; the GLH-Turbo with a Chrysler designed turbocharger making about 185hp, and the GLH-S. 500 of those were made, all black with silver trim, radio delete, acid dipped body panels, strut tower brace up front, and a Garrett Air Researches turbo with intercooler, giving this 1900lb Omni 220HP! Can you say "torque steer"? In 1985m Car & Driver tested one of these creations and recorded .94G on the skidpad. A record for a production FF car, and better than the Corvette that year. The cost, $15,000 in 1985 for the S, about $10,000 for the base GLH. A lot of money in 1985 for an Omni.

Why do I know so much about the GLH's? My father has owned 2 of the NA GLH Omnis, and a GLH Omni was the car my father picked my mother and I up from the hospital in the day after I was born. He'd just bought it that day and it was the first new car he'd ever bought. (four days later he rolled it street racing with my grandfather, oops. But no structural damage, the car was repaired and lasted another six months until it met a tree, in another race.)

Who says that the Pentastar never catered to the import crowd? Give the SRT-4 a chance. It's already on the SCCA ProRally tour as a factory backed effort in the 2WD class and there is already a factory backed Mopar effort for a pair of SRT-4's in NHRA Import drag racing. Name me one other German/American car company that is that willing to pursue the import scene?

Oh yeah, I'd either choose the WRX or the Mazdaspeed Protege, myself. I like the look of the Protege (very clean) and admire its handling. The WRX is just plain mean. There's nothing else like it here, yet. The SE-R, from what I've heard, is not its ancestor. It's been described as notchy, unrefined, and skittish. Plus I've yet to find anyone with something nice to say about the shift action on the six-speed. A shame, too. The car posts great numbers and I love the "I wanna be an R34" front end. Meanwhile, the Jetta unnerves me. I've driven a couple of hot FF Volkswagens, and there is one characteristic that binds them: they nose drive on corner entry and pick up the outside rear wheel. Just look at old pics of the "Wascally Wabbits" (Rabbit/Golf GTI's in SCCA competition in the late 70's and 80's). You'll see them all being hustled into the corner with the air dam scraping and the outside rear in orbit. As for the SRT-4, I'm waiting to see what happens with it. It's not in production yet, but it will be.

Ok, your best two choices like Octagon said are the Subaru and the Protege.

Both are turbo charged, but the subaru has more power. It also has the advantage of AWD, however it's not that much of an advantage because the Protege has THE best handling out of any FWD car on the market.

SE-R's are nice, but not the same as the old 200SX's.

The Neon i have absolutely no info on so I'm not gonna comment on it.

And as for the Jetta, well i know you said you want a 4-door sedan, but if your gonna buy a VW, then the only really good choice is the Golf GTI with the 1.8T and the 337 handling package.

Originally posted by DSMJim
I know guys with 1.8T jettas with triptronic (automatic) transmissions they have only a few mods. GIAC Chip, K&N FPIK, 3" down pipe, test pipe, 3" exhaust, blow off valve and run 12.9's at 109mph.

My ass:rolleyes: whoops did I say that out loud?:D

They have probably upgraded to the Audi spec turbo as well, I think it's a K03...

wait until the new evolution 8 comes here! welli think its fast = ) zooooooooooooooooooooooom!!!!!!!

Well every car I listed is turbo-charged except the SE-R Spec V, which is also pretty goddamn fast. I will rice the car out a little probably. I never even heard of the Jetta 4Motion, but it sounds like it's a AWD Jetta, essentially a WRX wannabe. I don't think I'm getting a WRX, because my friend is getting one, and it would be stupid to, but I am leaning towards that Speed Protege cuz of the handling. By far, the car with the best handling I have ever driven was the Mazda MPV, a VAN! But boy does the steering wheel feel smooth. So if it's that good, I can just imagine how good "THE BEST" handling must feel like. (Protege) I'm thinking if I do not get that one, I will get the SE-R Spec V.

i'd say the upcoming mercedes e55... butt thats way outta your price range....

The WRX.

Its turbocharged
The aftermarket is huge, and a little $ goes a LONG way
It has awd (subaru rally-derived and proven awd, not some hybrid system by a manufacturer that normally doesnt produce awd sportscars)
You generally get more respect. (im not saying you wouldnt get respect in the other cars)
Comes with a SCCA member application.
Its beautiful IMO
Its freakin fast as balls.
Its one helluva deal at <$25k.

Originally posted by street_racer_00


My ass:rolleyes: whoops did I say that out loud?:D

Hey stupid ass, http://www.18turbo.com/jonathan-2000jettagls.html

He ran mid 13's just turbo and 12.9 with all that at 50hp nitrous shot. That's automatic, now imagine how much faster it would be if it was 5 or 6 speed.

You obviously don't know what your talking about, but thanks for commnig out. You need to take your chicken wire grill maxima and dissappear. My condolances about driving a mom and dad car running 14's.. whoptie do! :rolleyes:

Its going to take a lot more than a chip, a intake, and a full exhaust to get a 1.8t Jetta auto into the 13s. Either his slip is fake or hes not mentioning all his mods.

But GJ putting street_racer in his place for making an ass of himself.

Originally posted by Fliquer
Its going to take a lot more than a chip, a intake, and a full exhaust to get a 1.8t Jetta auto into the 13s. Either his slip is fake or hes not mentioning all his mods.

But GJ putting street_racer in his place for making an ass of himself.

AHHHHH!!!!.. Yes it can. All you have to do is put a chip on a 1.8T and they run 14.2's. I have done them myself and see it at the track. Hell I installed one at the track for a guy. It's easy to put a 1.8T into 13's. The chips on the new one's are even better. They are 180hp to start with, the GIAC chip adds 45-50hp and 55-60ft/lbs of torque. I don't even have one and I have seen and done it myself on cars, so yes it is easy to put a jetta auto into 13's.

http://www.giacusa.com/golf18t.htm

1 thing you gotta remember tho is they are triptronic which is that manual shifting auto tranny. They can shift at 7300 redline like a manual and the drive line loss on them is only slightly higher than a 5speed. They are acctually remarkable transmissions. It's also a K03 turbo which is a half descent (for stock) sized turbo so they can move a lot of air on that motor. Hate to break it to you but yeah, they do run 13's with the mods listed.

That 3" downpipe made 16hp at the wheels on my buddies GTI 1.8T and it's the 150hp version. He still had the stock 2 inch exhaust too and made a coupler to attach it to a test pipe. When he gets his 3" exhaust it will make another 15 wheel hp. Those cars can make the HP no problem. Getting it to the ground is a whole other story.

Yes, yes, chips, chips make your car invincible! Hey look wanna-be eclipse boy, almost anyone can dump N20 into their car and run high 12's. It would have made the story a little bit more believable if you would have mentioned that in the first place.:rolleyes:

ive never seen a 1.8t at the track, but am sure they got good speed just cause a friend of mine has a 1.8t and its sounds like it means biz ...but then again sounds arent everything

Nice accord, love the color.:)

Originally posted by street_racer_00
Yes, yes, chips, chips make your car invincible! Hey look wanna-be eclipse boy, almost anyone can dump N20 into their car and run high 12's. It would have made the story a little bit more believable if you would have mentioned that in the first place.:rolleyes:

wannabe? hmmmm.... go find yourself a tsi awd to race against out where you live and then you'll see who the wannabe is:D

Originally posted by MadZ


wannabe? hmmmm.... go find yourself a tsi awd to race against out where you live and then you'll see who the wannabe is:D
hmmm you know I would but they are kinda hard to find because the talon falls into the same category as the wonderful geo metro and the AMC eagle......you know....cars that don't exist anymore.:rolleyes:

Ok, I'm not trying to start a war here, but theres a VERY big difference between a car that doesn't exist anymore, and a car that stopped production like 3 or 4 years ago. and was in production for like 8 or 9 years.

dont let him get to you

he seems to cause mucho trouble everywhere he posts :)

Damn straight, Crunch. A car that's been out of of production for a few years isn't a big deal, especially if it's a deriviative make like Eagle. Now, try a make that has been spiritually out of existence for nearly twenty years like MG. (The new MG, while very stellar, is basically a dressed up Rover)

Ok so how much does this +50hp +50 lbs/ft chip cost? How many engine management/internal mods must be done to accomodatie it? If its less than $1000, then why hasnt it cause a huge commotion in the euro-tuner world? Why doesnt VW offer it as a factory option?

oh wow, excuse me for QUESTIONING the fact that a CHIP and an EXHAUST could turn a viciously-fast(:rolleyes: ) VOLKSWAGEN JETTA into a MID 12-SECOND CAR. God knows what the HELL I was THINKING!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hey Street_Racer, I'm gonna break something to you. This isn't going to be easy, so I'm going to build up to it, and subtly say

THE GERMANS MAKE BETTER ENGINES THAN THE JAPANESE!"

The Volkswagen/Audi 1.8 turbo is a direct descendant of the Audi 5 cylinder! It has the same technology, and concepts. Like 9.3:1 compression, which allows for excellent offboost performance. Since it has knock sensors tied in to the turbocharger and ignition controls, it can virtually eliminate knock. Not only that, but the Motronic ECU is a "smart" ECU, it learns where the engine starts to detonate, on certain fuels, and automatically programs different maps for them!

The turbochargers, while they are no K27 or Garrett T4, are fairly robust units, spool up quite quickly, and can deliver about 20 lbs of boost stock. With minor upgrades, a 1.8T makes 300hp. That's enough to put a 2900lb Jetta into the 13s. Add 50 hp of nitrous, you're dipping into the 12s...

Sorry everyone, and the Japanese make some very good engines(RB26, SR20, 13B, 2JZ-GTE), but the 1.8T is a motor they put in economy cars...

I'd agree there, Cbass. At least, for the most part.

The Germans are very good at building engines that are all-around performing engines. I've never heard a 1st gen Golf GTI owner complain about lack of torque. Torque steer is a whole other issue, though. The Germans' turbo technology is unsurpassed, mostly because they've been turbocharging engines longer than anyone else. (Auto Union, anyone? Hey wait a second, that's Audi!) The crank driven supercharger is an Anglo/Yankee piece, for the most part. Auburn's had them, to be specific, though they were on the infamous Blower Bentleys, even before that.
Also, German engines are assembled, for the most part, with incredible precision. But they're also very well engineered so that there are few faults and that any repairs needed can be done quickly. Case in point, the Audi R8's. A perfect example of Germanic logistics. "We have tested this car to the point of destruction and have built and rebuilt it to the point where any chance of parts failure is likely to be minor, but becasue there is still that chance we designed the car so that it could be rebuilt by ten men from a bare monocoque in less than three hours."

Now, the thing that the Germans do not usually do well with engines is build around a higher rev range. Most VW fours and Audi fives and sixes are long stroke small bore engines which gives good torque at lower RPM, but costs horsepower at the top end and limits the rev capabilities of the engine. By contrast, most Japanese engines, and for that matter most Italian engines, are short stroke, large bore, in order to make lots of power up high in the rev range. There's a certain logic to each design, in tight corners, you'll get a lot more out of the German engine and you won't have to shift as often on track, but you tend to run out of wind on long straights or sweepers. Plus, there's the added difficulty of continuous corners. A car with out sufficient rev capability, at least in my experience, has many problems with sustaining momentum as the complex winds on.

Not that it is limited to Japan/German steadfastly.
Example: WRC- Rally Germany- On the third leg, which was fairly wide open, we saw short stroke, big bore, small displacement engines like the Peugeot 206 and the Citroen Xsara dominate becuase they could keep high engine revs, which in turn leads to high wheel speed, on long complexs of corners. A long stroke engine like the boxer 4 in the Subaru WRX couldn't match the wheel speed of the Peugeot or Citroen. Though they try to compensate with smaller diameter wheels and steeper gearing. (check the wheels out for yourself. I base this on a comparison of two tarmac Tamiya rally kits, so it may be wrong)

So, there you have my exposition on the argument. Which I'd say leads me to believe that there are 350hp turbo Golfs and Jettas. But I wouldn't choose one (a Jetta) because of the nasty tendency of VW's to lift the outside rear wheel under hard cornering. And it's a matter of suspension componentry and geometry, not weak sway bars and springs.

Those are some very good points. However, Audi does not run a long enough stroke to keep it from revving, the 1.8T can do 8000rpm happily all day long. Unlike most motors, it doesn't make it's peak hp at it's redline, but it's hp curve is still very high at redline. The Germans, Audi/VW/Porsche in particular, hit on the perfect formula for strong low end torque, and lots of high end horsepower. Most German turbo motors follow this formula, and are incredibly flexible, and also highly reliable.

I agree about the 1.8t being a very advanced motor, but dont go trying to say the germans make better motors than the japanese. When was the last time you saw a N/A 2L w/ 240hp at 9000rpm in a german road car? (If you haven't guessed, im talking about the s2000's F20C engine)

If you wanna talk turbos, the CA18 was generating #s similar to the best 1.8ts and it can handle up to 350 hp on stock internals (that was back in the early 90's). And dont forget the advanced for its time 4AG or the 4G63 (2.0L turbo making 280hp w/ a lot of potential). The supra engine can hold 700hp on stock internals.

I dont wanna say one region makes better motors. I would simply call them different.

I've seen some pretty mean V6's by BMW, one was making something like 340 hp. I know it's not a 4 banger like the s2000, but still, that much power out of a V6.... damn.

The F20 from the S2000 is an excellent motor, but it has no grunt below 6000 rpm. I'm talking about overall rating here, not specifics. German engines have better aren't indestructable, but they aren't any less reliable than a Japanese motor. Most German motors have superb low end torque as well as horsepower. Most German engines can stand ridiculous amounts of abuse and keep coming back for more.

Look at a 20 year old Japanese motor, and compare it to a 20 year old German motor. Then you will see what I am getting at. Germany has been producing the best motors in the world for a long time, and the Japanese have only started making world class engines in the last two decades(with a few notable exceptions). In fact, the best Japanese motors before the 80s were often copied from German motors, The 240Z and 510 cylinder heads were patterned after a Mercedes Benz from the late 50s.

The Mazda Rotary engine was a German design, and it wasn't until last year that it was actually perfected, with proper apex seals, and it took Ford to do that!

Not to say that the Japanese don't build great engines, because they do. In fact, some Japanese engines are better than most German engines. Overall however, I would say that liter for liter, piston for piston, the Germans make better engines.

Look at a 20 year old Japanese motor, and compare it to a 20 year old German motor

Name a good german engine from the 80s, and say why it was good. Back in the 70's Japan was pioneering modern engine techniques like overhead cams (toyota's AG series), fuel injection, rotaries, 3+ valves per cylinder, and higher-rpm street cars (when 5000 was the norm).

It is widely accepted that germany did not build many great cars in the 80s, but the only decent engines I can think of from that era were the VW 16v four (late 80s), and audi's quirky 5-cylinder turbo (I am a particular fan of that engine).

BTW: Rotaries originated in Japan in the 40's as a direct result of the hiroshima bombing.

Pioneered? Maybe in the US.

I could offer a particular example in the 911 motor, make hp levels that would shame any Japanese engine of the period, from 2.2 liters or less.

A good case would be the 2 liter motor found in the Porsche 924 and Audis, which to this day is a rock solid motor, with basic fuel injection and a SOHC.

Any of the BMW 4 or 6 cylinders!


The Rotary engine was invented by Dr Felix Wankel in 1921, in Germany! It was later adapted by Mazda in the 1950s in the Cosmo.

"Wankel" Rotary Engine.

Yup, Wankel sure sounds like a Japanese name...

wankels not japanese
its either american or british or something like that - i cant remember right now

but bmw doesnt make a v6 they make an inline 6

and overhead cams couldnt be invented by the japs
because enzo ferrari was using them on his v12's in the late 50's

lets try to keep the facts straight, eh?

Originally posted by Fliquer
but the only decent engines I can think of from that era were the VW 16v four (late 80s), and audi's quirky 5-cylinder turbo (I am a particular fan of that engine).

my old man had an audi 5000S back in the day when I was still in diapers and it crapped out on him after 60k miles.:( Before that he had an audi 4000S and it crapped out even sooner than that. Before I decided on my maxima, I was considering getting an A4, and my pops told me that if I got an audi he would disown me and leave me out of the will:D. Oh well, guess it was just a bad family experience with the "union.

I said "PIONEERED" not invented.

-Of course there were dohc engines in race-cars and exotics as far back as the 50s, but the JAPANESE developed them for PROFITABLE mass-production vehicles. They engineered cam engines to be cheap and fuel-efficient.

-I never said the japanese invented the rotary, they (mazda) just invented the apex seals necesary for the engine to last more than 10000 miles without seizing up.

BTW, I had an audi 5000s as my first car, and it lasted 200k+ miles before I sold it (and the new owner still drives it daily).

That's funny. (goes and looks under hood of a 1966 Pontiac Tempest three blocks away) I'll be damned, OHC straight six. Wait a second (peruses one of many MG booklets and stops at 1958 MGA Twin-Cam 1600) There's a DOHC four over here, too. One more moment, (takes out Road & Track salon article on Jaguar 3.8L Saloon from 1960's) Yep, twin cams here, too. And I can vouch that all of these cars were mass-produced, inexpensive, and for the common public. Heck, if you want to get technical, Alfa Romeo, Auto Union, Mercedes-Benz, Daimler, Bentley, Bugatti, Isotta-Fraschini, Minerva, Talbot-Lago, Hispano-Suiza, and Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg were all OHC engines back when Sochiro Honda was tweaking motorcycles. (yes, I know these aren't exactly cars for the everyman, but they're still examples of how long the auto industry has been using the technology)

Besides, I'm not really on either side of this debate. I agree with Fliquer. Japanese engines are designed differently and act differently from German engines. Neither is inherently better or worse, though some examples can be better or worse than others.

Name some reliable DOHC cars from the 40s-60s that were sold in large #s (im talkin honda civic large #s). Then I'll admit that I was wrong.

Im positive that the whole movement toward double camshaft and fuel injection powered cars (as opposed to large displacement pushrods) was headed by lightweight, reliable, small-displacement jap cars in the late 70s.

Hell, the japanese car market here is comparatively young. They didn't start importing in large quantities until the mid to late 70's. And the early models that americans got were like the early models of korean cars that started being imported to the U.S. in the late 80's/early 90's.....which is to say, crap. What a lot of people are forgetting is that reliability should be considered a relative term. The median of cars produced nowadays are a heck of a lot more reliable than the median cars of the 60's and 70's. So from the new-age point of view, cars from the 60's and 70's weren't reliable at all, no matter what car it was. But if you are looking from the viewpoint of the 60's and 70's then reliability is a relative term indeed. Does anyone know what I am getting at?

Japanese cars in the late 70s were more reliable than the american cars today.

Okay, I'll admit that there are nowhere near as many MGA Twin-Cam 1600's in the world as there are Civics. And the reliability of British cars is not always well spoken of. (though, in actuality, electrical gremlins are not bespoke of the reliabilty of the mechanics of an engine).

But heres a pair of cars I can throw in that was comparitively priced and modeled with a contemporary Japanese car. The Datusn 510's main competitors, the BMW 2002 and Alfa Romeo GTV. All three were two door coupes with ohc engines under 2L. The 510 was the least powerful, but the best handling of the bunch, while the Alfa was the most powerful, with the Bimmer somewhere in between. All three cars sold well as a unit. Not Civic numbers, but easily 100,000 plus units each stateside. And only synching the dual Webers on the GTV is a complaint I hear of. So, does that qualify?

Originally posted by Fliquer
Japanese cars in the late 70s were more reliable than the american cars today.

I'd have to disagree with you there, I think people underestimate the reliability of American cars. Hell, I had a '91 firebird RS with a 305 V8 and it had 145,000 miles on it when I sold it and had never had any mechanical problems, just your typical belt replacement and stuff like that. A guy I worked with has over 250,000 miles on his '89 Chevy pickup. As far as high performance cars go, you really can't expect them to last much more than 100,000 miles without a mechanical problem of some sort or rebuild anyways, thats just the price you pay for speed.

Man, I seem to have stirred up quite a controversy here! My apologies, and please don't shut down this thread Spec2Girl!

Yeah, Duesenberg made DOHC cars back in the late 20s. The Japanese have made some very good engines. I am not disputing this. The Germans have made more really good engines, because they have been at it longer. Back when the Nippon Motor Co (nissan) was making cheap trucks for the Japanese army, Mercedes Benz was making street cars with OHC engines, that were fast, reliable, fuel efficient, and luxurious.

BTW, when Nissan first started exporting cars here, they called them Datsuns because they were ashamed to put their name on them.

whoa boys....

stop the train and back on topic


vw/audi 1.8t motors can easily be chipped for an extra 50+ hp with no mods. that was a question two pages ago. almost any tuner that makes anything for that motor has the chip and it's about 400 dollars.

off the top of my head, apr, tap1, neuspeed, giac, mtm, and many others have the chip available...

and technically, vw/audi does have that type of upgrade, as audi does have an aftermarket performance arm that carries those products...

or cheaper...
for the 150hp 1.8t, audi used a different ecu in the audi tt and go 180hp (in the base model tt)... so you could get that ecu and chip it...

however, intake/chip/exh on 1.8t is good for like 210hp easy... considering the chip is 50hp... not too shabby.

they called them datsuns because they were ashamed to put their name on them.

Who the hell told you that??

BTW, what does that have to do with anything.

Originally posted by flylwsi
vw/audi 1.8t motors can easily be chipped for an extra 50+ hp with no mods. that was a question two pages ago. almost any tuner that makes anything for that motor has the chip and it's about 400 dollars.
I wasn't debating this part of it. I was questioning the fact that the dude who said this also said they could run high 12's with these mods......I was like whatever, nfw(no fucking way).:rolleyes:

Cbass, I don't think somebody gave you the whole story.

When Nissan was looking to expand into the American market, they saw it as a huge risk. One of things they feared most was being the disgrace of the Japanese auto market if they failed in the US market. They nearly didn't come over. One Mr. Katayama, or "Mr. K" as Z enthusiasts affectionately call him, pushed the company to sell a few token cars in the states, namely the Bluebird sedan (510) and Fairlady Roadster (Datsun 1600). In order to avoid possible disgrace if the effort failed, the cars were renamed as such and titled as "Datsuns". Ultimately, though, the cars were small successes, especially the 510 coupe after Katayama persuaded a few drivers to enter them in the SCCA Trans-Am for under 2L cars. The 510's won that year in the capable hands of John Morton and Pete Brock, and the next year, Katayama convinced Nissan to sell in the states a small, two seat coupe, priced between an MGB and a Corvette, with perfomance equally between, that would be reliable, fun, and even practical. In Japan, it was the new generation of the Fairlady. In the states, it was the Datsun 240Z.

One decade and two years later, Nissan decided that people should know just who really is making the car and owned up to their good fortune of being the first succesful Japanese car company in America.

Ok well thats different and understandable. But I still dont see how his post was relevant.

Well, it was a side note from the whole comparison of Nissan to MB. They didn't want to send the Fairlady over, as it was too good for us. Mr. K actually almost lost his job over this.

Nissan sent their worst economy cars over at first.

Anyways, Octagon, I know all about Nissans early years in the states. Nissan is my favourite Japanese manufacturer! I'm especially familiar with the BRE Datsun 510. Do you know they were running 9" tires on that thing? Crazy, huh? The cool thing was, aside from a few specials like the 5 speed from the 240Z and a special differential, it was a showroom car! They just built the L18, acid dipped the body, and welded some extra metal into the suspension arms!

All in all, a few thousand into the humble 510, and it was dicing it up with the legendary 2002 and Alfa GTVs, which were the best under 2.5L sedans that Europe had to offer. BTW, the championship was TransAm under 2.5L

John Morton Army #1782, that's me. :D God I wish I could mount a set of Mini-lite four spokes mags on my B like the set that were on the BRE 510's and later 240Z's. But, all I've got are 52 spoke wire wheels. Does anyone out there have a set of knock-off Halibrand Starfires that fit the stub axles of an MGB?

Those were minilites on the 510? Hmm. Did you know Minilite is still making wheels? You can check out their website

http://www.minilite.co.uk/Products/products.html

http://www.minilitewheels.com/

Originally posted by street_racer_00
5.Dodge neon SRT-4(yeah I know it's supposed to be fast and whatnot, but it's still a NEON for cryin out loud).

What kind of ignorant answer is that? You are going to judge a car by the name it carries and not what the car is made of? I get so sick of people with this mindset, making judgements on things they don't know jack shit about. :rolleyes:

I view this as a major problem. When it comes to brands, people get really offensive/defensive. I hear some Mustang owner going on about how bad Camaros are, and vice versa. We actually have iron heads arguing about how bad the other car maker is!

Tell me about it. People who say "Oh man, that car sucks" just because it's "that car" tend to piss me off. There isn't any justification for that mode of thinking. In my experience, you have to approach cars the way you're supposed to approach people; one at a time. I'm not a Ford fan, but I like Merkur XR4Ati's, classic Mustangs, Torino Talladegas, and a lot of other cars of their's. By the same token, I'm a diehards Tifosi. My blood is Scuderia red, but you couldn't give me a 308GT4 (you know, the ugly Bertone wedge from 1975) and I'm not too fond of the styling of the Enzo, either. Each car as it comes should be judged on its own merits, and undoubtedly it will have merits, just maybe not the ones you're looking for.

Good choice of cars, but not fast cars. I driven all of them, trust me. If your looking for a sedan to take to the races buy the wrx like everyone else it's cheap and gets off the line quick, anyone can run a fast drag with it drop the clutch a 6g's and shift a the rev limit.
Here is what you really want, a car that you will be happy with right?!
Buy a 97 or 98 m3 sedan, they came in stick and auto, they have 240hp a 5.3 0-60 and will blow the doors off any other car anyone has mentioned in this post! You will be pleased! It is just an all around better car, better interior, better engine, better handling, better sound, just better. Oh, what can't afford look it up in the autotrader they go for about 22g's, and you will be able to sell it for more in three or four years than any of the other cars people have posted. Go test drive one, and you'll drive home in one! Trust me! Plus you'll own an m3!
E-mail me if you have any questions I'd be glad to answer them, I have driven just about every car you can think of from the buick century to the 355 f1.:smoker2: