'03 Cobra gets rocked
MadZ
08-30-2002, 05:24 PM
From what I hear, the Z only had the usual bolt-ons and a 100 shot. and he only sprayed on the first run.
enjoy the show
Z28 vs. '03 Cobra (http://home.pacbell.net/zippom/DavidZ28vs03Cobra.wmv)
It's too bad the f-body as we know it was officially done with production on the 26th of this month. Cobra owners can sleep a little easier now.:D
enjoy the show
Z28 vs. '03 Cobra (http://home.pacbell.net/zippom/DavidZ28vs03Cobra.wmv)
It's too bad the f-body as we know it was officially done with production on the 26th of this month. Cobra owners can sleep a little easier now.:D
TerminalVelocity
08-30-2002, 08:36 PM
usuall bolt ons?
so what, its an 11 sec Z28...yes...put some bolt on's onto the cobra, lets see what happens.
The cobra islighter and produces way more hp and torque than an SS, yes...I need say no more to this.
so what, its an 11 sec Z28...yes...put some bolt on's onto the cobra, lets see what happens.
The cobra islighter and produces way more hp and torque than an SS, yes...I need say no more to this.
94svt5.0
08-30-2002, 11:25 PM
Umm.. I dont think the cobra was racing. It was on the interstate, and when the z28 dropped and sprayed, the cobra was probably in 6th. By the way the best I could tell from the video, it was a 2001 cobra. Not a 2003 supercharged cobra.
Layla's Keeper
08-31-2002, 12:22 AM
Good god, the Camaro has been laid to rest due to years of corporate neglect and still the biggest ego trip rivalry in motorsport wages on.
Fact: The Mustang, no matter how much Bill Ford says he loves it, is dying because of lack of marketing talent. Red Mustang convertibles with automatics and V-6's, and this market is more profitable than hardcore gearheads. Thus, the Mustang is losing its edge in search of its "feminine side".
Fact: GM didn't think that this was a wise idea. So they left well enough alone, for almost ten years, barring the 98 facelift and re-engine. Thus, the car was increasingly looked upon by the general population as "an old obsolete" car. And, when it boils right down to it, the ride was choppy and the ergonomics seem to have been back-engineered from the Mercury space capsules. To some one who tears out the stereo because it weighs too much, or doesn't mind wearing a kidney belt if it means a few more tenths of a 'G on the skidpad, this wasn't a problem. But it's a big problem for John Q. Public who wants his Camry, only with an image.
Fact: Insurance is crazy for ponycars. The teenage boys who'd regularly buy them (and supported the car during the 70's) could afford the cars and wanted them for their performance and presence, but the insurance was beyond their reach because it's automatically assumed that if you're young and drive a Camaro/Mustang, you're going to do something stupid. Be this the case or not, it's what the insurance companies believe.
So, what it boils down to is this: The primary market can't operate the cars, so they give them up. The secondary market, older men, aren't buying the cars because of the downshift in the price of standard classic muscle cars, thus the nostalgia is fading. The tertiary market, young women, like the style of the cars and are buying them, but they aren't buying ultra performance and presence, they're buying style and comfort. Thus, the cars must be engineered for that market. Unfortunately, while important brand-wise, the total sales of the Mustang and the F-bodies don't add up to much profit at all. So, any redesign must be done cheaply and must be aimed at the most lucrative market. The F-bodies could no longer be modified for the most lucrative market, women, so they died. The Mustang, is still kicking because of its more modern chassis and interior. But if the next platform Mustang in 2004 does not meet the expectations of the tertiary market, I fear the car will be put out to pasture. Already, the styling concept of the 2004 Mustang is a knock against it. It's horribly deriviative of the 1964-1966 notchback Mustangs, which the tertiary market, for the most part, doesn't recognize and the secondary market probably already owns.
Too bad, I miss the 1970 Trans-Am season. Boss 302's, Z-28's, Firebird Trans-Ams (with a 303, look it up), Mercury Gurney Cougars, Javelins, T/A Challengers, AAR 'Cudas. That's a real war of muscle, to me.
Fact: The Mustang, no matter how much Bill Ford says he loves it, is dying because of lack of marketing talent. Red Mustang convertibles with automatics and V-6's, and this market is more profitable than hardcore gearheads. Thus, the Mustang is losing its edge in search of its "feminine side".
Fact: GM didn't think that this was a wise idea. So they left well enough alone, for almost ten years, barring the 98 facelift and re-engine. Thus, the car was increasingly looked upon by the general population as "an old obsolete" car. And, when it boils right down to it, the ride was choppy and the ergonomics seem to have been back-engineered from the Mercury space capsules. To some one who tears out the stereo because it weighs too much, or doesn't mind wearing a kidney belt if it means a few more tenths of a 'G on the skidpad, this wasn't a problem. But it's a big problem for John Q. Public who wants his Camry, only with an image.
Fact: Insurance is crazy for ponycars. The teenage boys who'd regularly buy them (and supported the car during the 70's) could afford the cars and wanted them for their performance and presence, but the insurance was beyond their reach because it's automatically assumed that if you're young and drive a Camaro/Mustang, you're going to do something stupid. Be this the case or not, it's what the insurance companies believe.
So, what it boils down to is this: The primary market can't operate the cars, so they give them up. The secondary market, older men, aren't buying the cars because of the downshift in the price of standard classic muscle cars, thus the nostalgia is fading. The tertiary market, young women, like the style of the cars and are buying them, but they aren't buying ultra performance and presence, they're buying style and comfort. Thus, the cars must be engineered for that market. Unfortunately, while important brand-wise, the total sales of the Mustang and the F-bodies don't add up to much profit at all. So, any redesign must be done cheaply and must be aimed at the most lucrative market. The F-bodies could no longer be modified for the most lucrative market, women, so they died. The Mustang, is still kicking because of its more modern chassis and interior. But if the next platform Mustang in 2004 does not meet the expectations of the tertiary market, I fear the car will be put out to pasture. Already, the styling concept of the 2004 Mustang is a knock against it. It's horribly deriviative of the 1964-1966 notchback Mustangs, which the tertiary market, for the most part, doesn't recognize and the secondary market probably already owns.
Too bad, I miss the 1970 Trans-Am season. Boss 302's, Z-28's, Firebird Trans-Ams (with a 303, look it up), Mercury Gurney Cougars, Javelins, T/A Challengers, AAR 'Cudas. That's a real war of muscle, to me.
DeViL
08-31-2002, 01:15 AM
"so what, its an 11 sec Z28...yes...put some bolt on's onto the cobra, lets see what happens."
haha thats great. I guess being supercharged from the factory doesn't account for anything? Sounds like a factory bolt on to me, obviously you know what happens when you throw a few bolt ons to a Z28.
"The cobra islighter and produces way more hp and torque than an SS, yes...I need say no more to this."
The Cobra is about 200 pounds heavier then a SS what are you talking about. SS and Trans Ams are about 3400, that new Cobra I'm pretty sure is in the 3600 range.
I agree with SVT5.0 partially though. That first little skirmish wasn't a race he just went by him quick la de da. The way the hood is shaped though, it does look like a 03 Cobra. Plus it has the Cobra emblems, it probably is one.
Whatever gear and whatnot the Cobra was in the 2nd flyby, there isn't a doubt to me he was pushing it to the max. You can tell cuz he inches foward a bit on the Z28/SS(?) for a split second in the beginning. Didn't seem like he gave the Cobra a fair start though.
haha thats great. I guess being supercharged from the factory doesn't account for anything? Sounds like a factory bolt on to me, obviously you know what happens when you throw a few bolt ons to a Z28.
"The cobra islighter and produces way more hp and torque than an SS, yes...I need say no more to this."
The Cobra is about 200 pounds heavier then a SS what are you talking about. SS and Trans Ams are about 3400, that new Cobra I'm pretty sure is in the 3600 range.
I agree with SVT5.0 partially though. That first little skirmish wasn't a race he just went by him quick la de da. The way the hood is shaped though, it does look like a 03 Cobra. Plus it has the Cobra emblems, it probably is one.
Whatever gear and whatnot the Cobra was in the 2nd flyby, there isn't a doubt to me he was pushing it to the max. You can tell cuz he inches foward a bit on the Z28/SS(?) for a split second in the beginning. Didn't seem like he gave the Cobra a fair start though.
BlkCamaroSS
08-31-2002, 01:23 AM
Look at the nose of the Cobra on the second run. It's clearly of 03 design. No way you could see the red eyes of the Cobra on the sides, though.
Also, in the second clip, the fact that you hear the horn go twice means they were both prepped and ready to race.
Also, in the second clip, the fact that you hear the horn go twice means they were both prepped and ready to race.
danno_SS
08-31-2002, 05:19 AM
I don't think the Cobra was really trying. The sticker on the windshield (upper right ) leads me to believe that the Cobra was less than a few dys old. I doubt the owner was ready to put it thru its paces. Would've like to see this at the track though.
BTW '03 Cobra curb weight 3640 lb.
BTW '03 Cobra curb weight 3640 lb.
NSX-R-SSJ20K
08-31-2002, 06:31 AM
ford corporate exec's are tarts they should get women driving lessons so they can drive Gt's and such so we can see some more rockin fords
lalalala Rockin lol thats soo gay .......wait i said that
anyways all the best cars are dying out instead of bickering we need to save the remaining ones from dying out
so i am in search of the legendary ultimate unbeatablelegend in these beasts and i shan't stop till i get it .......... :devil: wait for me mr ford i'll spank your ass one more time
lalalala Rockin lol thats soo gay .......wait i said that
anyways all the best cars are dying out instead of bickering we need to save the remaining ones from dying out
so i am in search of the legendary ultimate unbeatablelegend in these beasts and i shan't stop till i get it .......... :devil: wait for me mr ford i'll spank your ass one more time
TerminalVelocity
08-31-2002, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by DeViL
"so what, its an 11 sec Z28...yes...put some bolt on's onto the cobra, lets see what happens."
haha thats great. I guess being supercharged from the factory doesn't account for anything? Sounds like a factory bolt on to me, obviously you know what happens when you throw a few bolt ons to a Z28.
"The cobra islighter and produces way more hp and torque than an SS, yes...I need say no more to this."
The Cobra is about 200 pounds heavier then a SS what are you talking about. SS and Trans Ams are about 3400, that new Cobra I'm pretty sure is in the 3600 range.
I agree with SVT5.0 partially though. That first little skirmish wasn't a race he just went by him quick la de da. The way the hood is shaped though, it does look like a 03 Cobra. Plus it has the Cobra emblems, it probably is one.
Whatever gear and whatnot the Cobra was in the 2nd flyby, there isn't a doubt to me he was pushing it to the max. You can tell cuz he inches foward a bit on the Z28/SS(?) for a split second in the beginning. Didn't seem like he gave the Cobra a fair start though.
Well, a factory bolt on, is stock. If you moded the Cobra it wouldnt have any problem. I was missinformed about the weight of the SS so I rechecked 3433, so your correct. *I was told it was 3800 which I found very very odd* Second, watching the second race, unless that Z28 is a 10 sec car, it shouldnt leave a 12-13 sec car that fast and that far. I dont think the cobra was really going for it. Eather that or that Z28's "bolton's" were alot more than were being led to believe.
"so what, its an 11 sec Z28...yes...put some bolt on's onto the cobra, lets see what happens."
haha thats great. I guess being supercharged from the factory doesn't account for anything? Sounds like a factory bolt on to me, obviously you know what happens when you throw a few bolt ons to a Z28.
"The cobra islighter and produces way more hp and torque than an SS, yes...I need say no more to this."
The Cobra is about 200 pounds heavier then a SS what are you talking about. SS and Trans Ams are about 3400, that new Cobra I'm pretty sure is in the 3600 range.
I agree with SVT5.0 partially though. That first little skirmish wasn't a race he just went by him quick la de da. The way the hood is shaped though, it does look like a 03 Cobra. Plus it has the Cobra emblems, it probably is one.
Whatever gear and whatnot the Cobra was in the 2nd flyby, there isn't a doubt to me he was pushing it to the max. You can tell cuz he inches foward a bit on the Z28/SS(?) for a split second in the beginning. Didn't seem like he gave the Cobra a fair start though.
Well, a factory bolt on, is stock. If you moded the Cobra it wouldnt have any problem. I was missinformed about the weight of the SS so I rechecked 3433, so your correct. *I was told it was 3800 which I found very very odd* Second, watching the second race, unless that Z28 is a 10 sec car, it shouldnt leave a 12-13 sec car that fast and that far. I dont think the cobra was really going for it. Eather that or that Z28's "bolton's" were alot more than were being led to believe.
Cbass
08-31-2002, 10:27 AM
Okay, the first time the guy wasn't even trying. The second time, he went a little. Either he was shifting early, or wasn't giving it everything... Anyways, if you'll notice, the Z28 didn't really pull away, the Cobra was with him the whole time on the second run.
94svt5.0
08-31-2002, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by BlkCamaroSS
Look at the nose of the Cobra on the second run. It's clearly of 03 design. No way you could see the red eyes of the Cobra on the sides, though.
Also, in the second clip, the fact that you hear the horn go twice means they were both prepped and ready to race.
The noses are the same on both the 2001 and 2003. The hood on the 2003 is different anoly in the fact it has rear facing vents in the middle of the hood. The 2001 has no vents. Its very doubtfull the cobra was trying, if he was he could not drive, or the camaro was a 10 second car.
Look at the nose of the Cobra on the second run. It's clearly of 03 design. No way you could see the red eyes of the Cobra on the sides, though.
Also, in the second clip, the fact that you hear the horn go twice means they were both prepped and ready to race.
The noses are the same on both the 2001 and 2003. The hood on the 2003 is different anoly in the fact it has rear facing vents in the middle of the hood. The 2001 has no vents. Its very doubtfull the cobra was trying, if he was he could not drive, or the camaro was a 10 second car.
BlkCamaroSS
08-31-2002, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by 94svt5.0
The noses are the same on both the 2001 and 2003. The hood on the 2003 is different anoly in the fact it has rear facing vents in the middle of the hood. The 2001 has no vents. Its very doubtfull the cobra was trying, if he was he could not drive, or the camaro was a 10 second car.
I couldn't really tell if you were arguing with me about the fact that it's a 2003 or not. You stated that the 2003 has backward facing vents, which the car in the video has. Just like this one:
http://www.svt.ford.com/flash/gallery_cobra_five.html
Now, some have stated that the driver of the cobra may not have been trying. The second pull he was definately trying, no arguement there. Think of it this way, if you just bought a new Cobra, wouldn't you be hungry to test it out on some Z's and SS's? I sure as hell would. Give the guy in the F-body some props regardless of what he's done to it, there's always bigger fish in the sea.
Hell, I got beat by a turboed supra last night. I gave him a big fatty thumbs up out the window. It was fun as hell racing him, and I'll do it again if I get the chance.
The noses are the same on both the 2001 and 2003. The hood on the 2003 is different anoly in the fact it has rear facing vents in the middle of the hood. The 2001 has no vents. Its very doubtfull the cobra was trying, if he was he could not drive, or the camaro was a 10 second car.
I couldn't really tell if you were arguing with me about the fact that it's a 2003 or not. You stated that the 2003 has backward facing vents, which the car in the video has. Just like this one:
http://www.svt.ford.com/flash/gallery_cobra_five.html
Now, some have stated that the driver of the cobra may not have been trying. The second pull he was definately trying, no arguement there. Think of it this way, if you just bought a new Cobra, wouldn't you be hungry to test it out on some Z's and SS's? I sure as hell would. Give the guy in the F-body some props regardless of what he's done to it, there's always bigger fish in the sea.
Hell, I got beat by a turboed supra last night. I gave him a big fatty thumbs up out the window. It was fun as hell racing him, and I'll do it again if I get the chance.
BlkCamaroSS
08-31-2002, 11:42 AM
BTW, the 2001 and 2003 do not have the same front ends
2001:
http://www.robind.com/robins_2001_cobra/011.htm
2003:
http://www.svt.ford.com/flash/gallery_cobra_one.html
2001:
http://www.robind.com/robins_2001_cobra/011.htm
2003:
http://www.svt.ford.com/flash/gallery_cobra_one.html
94svt5.0
08-31-2002, 12:50 PM
94svt5.0 can not be wrong. My knowledge of mustang lore is unmatched by anyone. Actually, I only saw half of the video, my media player is screwed. But, the first run the cobra was definitly not trying, the seacond he probably fumbled the shifts, or the camaro runs 10s.
BlkCamaroSS
08-31-2002, 01:04 PM
This day in age, if you have any fast car, and you skip a shift, you're probably fucked when racing another good car. That happens...
Bryan8412
08-31-2002, 01:25 PM
OK LETS GET SOME THINGS STRAIGHT:
1. Because of the honks the second time we can assume both were staged races and both racers were trying.
2. The cobra stayed slightly in the second run because the z28 DID NOT SPRAY, read the first post next time
3. The Cobra most likely doesn't have any bolt ons yet due to its new nature.
4. Cobra's go 12.3 stock with the seats removed, an excellant driver, and if they got lucky on the pully (some shipped with the wrong underpowered pully). As in the miata v. C5 post we've established the driver issue, and chances are someones been driving a Z28 a hell of alot longer than their new cobra.
5. It IS a '03 as seen by other posters and the reverse hood scoop.
6. The "factory bolt-on" is notorious for stealing power. It's on a similar if not the same aluminum block as the Lightning which has seen gains of 100hp after swapping the supercharger for a quick-spooling turbo.
7. The new Cobras ARE fast NSX, is 12.3 not a fast stock number?
8. He may not of broken it in yet and may not have been redlining it.
9. Lastly, the cobra WILL survive. It has a great performance to price ratio and HUGE potential to be modded into supercars. Reading around on the corvette forums, more of the guys than i can count are picking one up because they're so nice.
Sorry but there was alot of facts flying around and i had to set them straight. The new cobras are fast and can be made even faster, but in time, they just came out next year ;)
1. Because of the honks the second time we can assume both were staged races and both racers were trying.
2. The cobra stayed slightly in the second run because the z28 DID NOT SPRAY, read the first post next time
3. The Cobra most likely doesn't have any bolt ons yet due to its new nature.
4. Cobra's go 12.3 stock with the seats removed, an excellant driver, and if they got lucky on the pully (some shipped with the wrong underpowered pully). As in the miata v. C5 post we've established the driver issue, and chances are someones been driving a Z28 a hell of alot longer than their new cobra.
5. It IS a '03 as seen by other posters and the reverse hood scoop.
6. The "factory bolt-on" is notorious for stealing power. It's on a similar if not the same aluminum block as the Lightning which has seen gains of 100hp after swapping the supercharger for a quick-spooling turbo.
7. The new Cobras ARE fast NSX, is 12.3 not a fast stock number?
8. He may not of broken it in yet and may not have been redlining it.
9. Lastly, the cobra WILL survive. It has a great performance to price ratio and HUGE potential to be modded into supercars. Reading around on the corvette forums, more of the guys than i can count are picking one up because they're so nice.
Sorry but there was alot of facts flying around and i had to set them straight. The new cobras are fast and can be made even faster, but in time, they just came out next year ;)
MadZ
08-31-2002, 07:11 PM
Damn, looks like I struck a nerve with the ford guys. I like the new cobra by the way, I just thought it was a good video. I wasn't posting this to pick on the ford guys, it just happens that this was the first video I've seen of the new cobra's in action. Anyone have any other videos of it?
I can't wait until I get some $$$ for a supercharger, I ought to be right there with the new cobras.
I can't wait until I get some $$$ for a supercharger, I ought to be right there with the new cobras.
BlkCamaroSS
08-31-2002, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by MadZ
Damn, looks like I struck a nerve with the ford guys. I like the new cobra by the way, I just thought it was a good video. I wasn't posting this to pick on the ford guys, it just happens that this was the first video I've seen of the new cobra's in action. Anyone have any other videos of it?
I can't wait until I get some $$$ for a supercharger, I ought to be right there with the new cobras.
No joke, just waiting for the warranty to run out...
Damn, looks like I struck a nerve with the ford guys. I like the new cobra by the way, I just thought it was a good video. I wasn't posting this to pick on the ford guys, it just happens that this was the first video I've seen of the new cobra's in action. Anyone have any other videos of it?
I can't wait until I get some $$$ for a supercharger, I ought to be right there with the new cobras.
No joke, just waiting for the warranty to run out...
Saleen85
08-31-2002, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Bryan8412
OK LETS GET SOME THINGS STRAIGHT:
6. The "factory bolt-on" is notorious for stealing power. It's on a similar if not the same aluminum block as the Lightning which has seen gains of 100hp after swapping the supercharger for a quick-spooling turbo.
Actually, the Lightning is a 5.4L and the Cobra is a 4.6L. I know practically nothing about the lightning, except its a fast truck, and its supercharged. ;) The new Cobra uses the GT iron block, for longevity reasons, that's one reason why the car weighs more than it did in '01. It uses the same supercharger, but on the lightning, it's top fed, and on the Cobra, it's rear fed. From what I hear, those Eaton's work better rear fed. The lightning would also make more power if it was a DOHC, and not SOHC.
And that's all I have to say about that. As far as who won, who gives a shit. Swap those drivers, I bet the Cobra might win. Some ppl just weren't born to drag race.
Rob
OK LETS GET SOME THINGS STRAIGHT:
6. The "factory bolt-on" is notorious for stealing power. It's on a similar if not the same aluminum block as the Lightning which has seen gains of 100hp after swapping the supercharger for a quick-spooling turbo.
Actually, the Lightning is a 5.4L and the Cobra is a 4.6L. I know practically nothing about the lightning, except its a fast truck, and its supercharged. ;) The new Cobra uses the GT iron block, for longevity reasons, that's one reason why the car weighs more than it did in '01. It uses the same supercharger, but on the lightning, it's top fed, and on the Cobra, it's rear fed. From what I hear, those Eaton's work better rear fed. The lightning would also make more power if it was a DOHC, and not SOHC.
And that's all I have to say about that. As far as who won, who gives a shit. Swap those drivers, I bet the Cobra might win. Some ppl just weren't born to drag race.
Rob
BlkCamaroSS
08-31-2002, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Saleen85
As far as who won, who gives a shit. Swap those drivers, I bet the Cobra might win. Some ppl just weren't born to drag race.
Rob
Good point. Unfortunately, like you said, most people that buy high hp cars nowadays don't know how to drive them for shit.
They buy them as status symbols, garaged, or trailered, not what they're meant to be as a high performance sports car. They're built for speed and fun, so make them work to their full potential.
Not saying that I'm a champion driver, I'll be the first to admit that I need practice at staging and launching on the track. That's what practice is for.
As far as who won, who gives a shit. Swap those drivers, I bet the Cobra might win. Some ppl just weren't born to drag race.
Rob
Good point. Unfortunately, like you said, most people that buy high hp cars nowadays don't know how to drive them for shit.
They buy them as status symbols, garaged, or trailered, not what they're meant to be as a high performance sports car. They're built for speed and fun, so make them work to their full potential.
Not saying that I'm a champion driver, I'll be the first to admit that I need practice at staging and launching on the track. That's what practice is for.
Bryan8412
09-01-2002, 01:21 AM
hmm seems i read wrong. did the concept have an aluminum block? I swear i read that somewhere. either way with a turbo, a boost controller, i/h/e, and a new pully it can pull some serious numbers
BlkCamaroSS
09-01-2002, 01:49 AM
If you're referring to the 03 Cobra's block, the concept may have been aluminum, but I know that the ones they have coming off the line are iron. It had to do with the reliability of the engine with the supercharger one it. Ford wanted to warranty something that wasn't going to cost them money, and they had lots of trouble with the testing of the aluminum one.
DeViL
09-01-2002, 01:49 AM
I guess this post matters as a Chevy vs Ford conversation. But really, what the fuck, none of us own either of these two cars nor do we know them personally. So really none of us know what we're talking about anyways.
street_racer_00
09-01-2002, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by DeViL
But really, what the fuck, none of us own either of these two cars nor do we know them personally. So really none of us know what we're talking about anyways.
That's a philosophical, yet truthful outlook on things.:D
But really, what the fuck, none of us own either of these two cars nor do we know them personally. So really none of us know what we're talking about anyways.
That's a philosophical, yet truthful outlook on things.:D
Cbass
09-01-2002, 06:15 AM
I think the guy in the Cobra was probably shifting badly... it takes a lot of power to pull away like that, and 100hp extra in a Z28 shouldn't make THAT much difference...
my 2 cents, don't spend em all in one place!
my 2 cents, don't spend em all in one place!
94svt5.0
09-01-2002, 11:00 AM
I say, good idea. Lets just compare cars we actually own. All the rest is just bench racing, with the winner being controlled by magazine facts.
BlkCamaroSS
09-01-2002, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by 94svt5.0
I say, good idea. Lets just compare cars we actually own. All the rest is just bench racing, with the winner being controlled by magazine facts.
As happy as that would make me feel, I fear this place would be dead then because no one would share their knowledge or experience with one another.
I say, good idea. Lets just compare cars we actually own. All the rest is just bench racing, with the winner being controlled by magazine facts.
As happy as that would make me feel, I fear this place would be dead then because no one would share their knowledge or experience with one another.
street_racer_00
09-01-2002, 01:42 PM
I think we have developed a new phenomenon here.....lets call it "armchair street racing.":D
MadZ
09-01-2002, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by 94svt5.0
I say, good idea. Lets just compare cars we actually own. All the rest is just bench racing, with the winner being controlled by magazine facts.
lol... I'll remember you said that. By the way, it seems you are highly disturbed and damn near offended by this video. Somethin' on your mind? Besides, we really do not know exactly what was done to each of the cars. Read my original post and you will see that this is only what I have heard, not what I know. For all we know, the Z may have been supercharged as well and not spraying at all. So just calm down and stay cool, we all know that the new cobra is an awesome car, but let's face it, there is always gonna be that car that is a bit faster than you no matter what you drive.
I say, good idea. Lets just compare cars we actually own. All the rest is just bench racing, with the winner being controlled by magazine facts.
lol... I'll remember you said that. By the way, it seems you are highly disturbed and damn near offended by this video. Somethin' on your mind? Besides, we really do not know exactly what was done to each of the cars. Read my original post and you will see that this is only what I have heard, not what I know. For all we know, the Z may have been supercharged as well and not spraying at all. So just calm down and stay cool, we all know that the new cobra is an awesome car, but let's face it, there is always gonna be that car that is a bit faster than you no matter what you drive.
94svt5.0
09-01-2002, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by MadZ
lol... I'll remember you said that. By the way, it seems you are highly disturbed and damn near offended by this video. Somethin' on your mind? Besides, we really do not know exactly what was done to each of the cars. Read my original post and you will see that this is only what I have heard, not what I know. For all we know, the Z may have been supercharged as well and not spraying at all. So just calm down and stay cool, we all know that the new cobra is an awesome car, but let's face it, there is always gonna be that car that is a bit faster than you no matter what you drive.
Er.. okay....?
lol... I'll remember you said that. By the way, it seems you are highly disturbed and damn near offended by this video. Somethin' on your mind? Besides, we really do not know exactly what was done to each of the cars. Read my original post and you will see that this is only what I have heard, not what I know. For all we know, the Z may have been supercharged as well and not spraying at all. So just calm down and stay cool, we all know that the new cobra is an awesome car, but let's face it, there is always gonna be that car that is a bit faster than you no matter what you drive.
Er.. okay....?
Z-71
09-02-2002, 01:28 AM
The driver of the Z-28, was David McCall. His car does have the usual bolt-ons, I believe gears, full exhaust etc. Which, if anyone knows will put a stock ls1 car LOW 12's easily. Several LS1's have seen 11's with just these "bolt-ons". For instance, Alan Roskos a.k.a. (RAGEman) he's gone 11.56@121mph in a stock internal 6-speed '01 z-28 on motor. McCall's car has gone LOW 11's, if I remember correctly. For some reason,t hese cars are extremely fast with a little bit of work.
Anyways, take my words however you wish. Just some people seemed to doubt the ls1's ability to pull a car with supposed more horsepower like that, and asid that the cobra must not have been trying. Or, it was strictly driver error, or whatever. LS1's got top-end on dubs, they are hard cars to beat on the highway.
Jason
Anyways, take my words however you wish. Just some people seemed to doubt the ls1's ability to pull a car with supposed more horsepower like that, and asid that the cobra must not have been trying. Or, it was strictly driver error, or whatever. LS1's got top-end on dubs, they are hard cars to beat on the highway.
Jason
MadZ
09-02-2002, 01:54 AM
I actually think he is trying on the first run, if you watch the video again, you will notice that he hangs right there for a second and then slowly falls back. If he wasn't trying then he would have fallen back much faster than he did. and yes, many people do not realize the power and potential of ls1's. I've seen a few stock '02 anniversary SS's hit 12.9's before. BONE STOCK GM has been known to have very moddest hp ratings, especially when the ls1 camaro's come close to the performance of GM's beloved vette. Wouldn't want that stock Z28 going faster than that yuppie's stock vette now would we? :D
DeViL
09-02-2002, 07:36 AM
The first clip just looked like the Camaro guy was just passing by him that Cobra wasn't hitting it very hard if at all. Anyways the hell with this anyone got some kill stories of their own?
-cy-
09-06-2002, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by Cbass
100hp extra in a Z28 shouldn't make THAT much difference...
wow man, since when does 100hp more and about 200lbs less not make much of a difference?!? The 200 lb difference is fairly large, and then add a shot of spray for 100hp more...thats a big difference. I haven't watched the video, too lazy.
The only thing bothering me is that the cobra is only making a little under 400hp with the blower, with a different pulley ratio it might be a bit better. A guy around here has a blown z-28 (LS1) with stock internals and puts 498hp to the rear wheels.
Ya the '03 cobra is a darn nice car, but its not worth worshipping, stock at least, and neither is the LS1. As soon as you say "well, if he had this, then it would be different" then the entire arguement becomes pointless. Well, what if a civic rolled up to them with 700hp and slicks and beat them....could have happend, but didn't, deal with it.
100hp extra in a Z28 shouldn't make THAT much difference...
wow man, since when does 100hp more and about 200lbs less not make much of a difference?!? The 200 lb difference is fairly large, and then add a shot of spray for 100hp more...thats a big difference. I haven't watched the video, too lazy.
The only thing bothering me is that the cobra is only making a little under 400hp with the blower, with a different pulley ratio it might be a bit better. A guy around here has a blown z-28 (LS1) with stock internals and puts 498hp to the rear wheels.
Ya the '03 cobra is a darn nice car, but its not worth worshipping, stock at least, and neither is the LS1. As soon as you say "well, if he had this, then it would be different" then the entire arguement becomes pointless. Well, what if a civic rolled up to them with 700hp and slicks and beat them....could have happend, but didn't, deal with it.
Cbass
09-06-2002, 02:50 AM
The first time he blew the Cobra's doors off like it wasn't no thang :p
The second time it was more of a run. Anyways, the 390hp Cobra is stock, with a factory blower set up for emissions and insurance costs. It has all sorts of internal goodies that the LS1 does not have. Also, keep in mind, the DOHC Cobra motor is a beast on the highway, because of it's high revving yet flexible design.
Obviously the Z had more power on him, to pull away like that. It didn't really look like the Cobra made a good run the first time. There's a guy in my town making 500hp on his LT1, with a 150 hp shot on top of that... he's pretty fast.
The second time it was more of a run. Anyways, the 390hp Cobra is stock, with a factory blower set up for emissions and insurance costs. It has all sorts of internal goodies that the LS1 does not have. Also, keep in mind, the DOHC Cobra motor is a beast on the highway, because of it's high revving yet flexible design.
Obviously the Z had more power on him, to pull away like that. It didn't really look like the Cobra made a good run the first time. There's a guy in my town making 500hp on his LT1, with a 150 hp shot on top of that... he's pretty fast.
-cy-
09-06-2002, 03:28 AM
True, but the LS1 is set up for emissions and insurance reasons as well. They both have the weak and strong points, wanna start modding them to get rid of the weak points, well then the arguement is over, neither can truly win the contest.
Its more about what floats your boat. For me, i like the pushrod design as opposed to the DOHC design, but thats mostly because i have learned more about bowtie stuff than ford. If i get the chance, i'd love to rip into a ford engine and learn more.
Lets put it this way, both cars are fast, either can win because of conditions and variances, so lets all just say "nice cars, nice race". Magazine racing accomplishes nothing, and saying "well, with this he could have..." makes it even more pointless. Nice cars :)
Its more about what floats your boat. For me, i like the pushrod design as opposed to the DOHC design, but thats mostly because i have learned more about bowtie stuff than ford. If i get the chance, i'd love to rip into a ford engine and learn more.
Lets put it this way, both cars are fast, either can win because of conditions and variances, so lets all just say "nice cars, nice race". Magazine racing accomplishes nothing, and saying "well, with this he could have..." makes it even more pointless. Nice cars :)
Cbass
09-06-2002, 09:46 AM
Damn skippy! I respect Ford for taking up where GM left off with the LT5, building a quad cam 4 valve per cylinder V8. I'm so sick of hearing how old fashioned pushrod engines are all that the US has ever made! Yeah, I know the LT5 was designed by Lotus, but that's because it was destined to be a very limited run of cars...
OHC does really have all the advantages, from higher rpm capabilities, to better valvetrain efficiency, and easier cam work, but the big 3 never invested much in putting it into V8s.
It's like I try to explain to ricers. Yes technology is good, and can overcome lack of displacement up to a point, but technology and displacement is an unbeatable combination. Think of a 6 liter rotary, or a DOHC big block with twin sequential turbos per bank.
BTW, there is a company I was looking at that makes DOHC conversions for domestic smallblocks! Only one problem, they want $4-6K for a set of heads. The good news? They're good for something like 10,000 rpm, and have sick flow numbers :D
OHC does really have all the advantages, from higher rpm capabilities, to better valvetrain efficiency, and easier cam work, but the big 3 never invested much in putting it into V8s.
It's like I try to explain to ricers. Yes technology is good, and can overcome lack of displacement up to a point, but technology and displacement is an unbeatable combination. Think of a 6 liter rotary, or a DOHC big block with twin sequential turbos per bank.
BTW, there is a company I was looking at that makes DOHC conversions for domestic smallblocks! Only one problem, they want $4-6K for a set of heads. The good news? They're good for something like 10,000 rpm, and have sick flow numbers :D
-cy-
09-06-2002, 10:50 AM
Just because you can spin up to 10,000 does mean you'll want to. With the cams i've been looking at for power, they redline (lose power) after 7000 or so, so people in the LS1 just up the limiter and be happy.
The only thing i think is better about the pushrod idea is that there is kinda a weak link in there, something that will bend before Mr. Valve starts to meet Mr. Piston. With the DOHC, the cam is right on top of the valve, and it seems a bit easier (more harmful when it does too) for the bad piston to valve combination happens.
Its all preferance. Oh, and the LS1 maybe be of pushrod design, but it isn't exactly without good design or technology.
The only thing i think is better about the pushrod idea is that there is kinda a weak link in there, something that will bend before Mr. Valve starts to meet Mr. Piston. With the DOHC, the cam is right on top of the valve, and it seems a bit easier (more harmful when it does too) for the bad piston to valve combination happens.
Its all preferance. Oh, and the LS1 maybe be of pushrod design, but it isn't exactly without good design or technology.
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