Why no three rotor

OK we get the point the Rx8 is a wounderful handeling car it is sexy as hell now all it needs is more power, lets face it 238hp is not exactly awe inspiring, and does not do the rest of the car justice. The simple anwser is to add another rotor, it should be easier to build than the old three rotors because of the side mounted exaust. That should push the cars power to an amazing 357hp and make it a vette killer easly, just by adding another rotor! It should not add much to the cost because the car already has enough grip to handle the extra power so it won't need larger wheels/tires, maby just a beefed up tranny.. What are your thought on this?

lol are you crazy that thing will be gettting like 10 or less miles to the gallon. the rx8 now are only getting 20mph best and 13mph worst(city driving) shit it worst than the new v8s now. oh yeah your fucking wonderful rx8 is having a massive recall, letters will be sent out to customer starting sep 15. most of them will need pcm reflash and leading spark plug replace . there will be
some needing engine replace. i seen 3 that will be needing engine this past week, unlucky me that i have to put one in next week there will be more to come. fuck a rx8

uhm if you wanted gas mileage you should have gone to teh toyota dealership to buy their prius

That should push the cars power to an amazing 357hp

please tell me you didn't just divide 238 by and multiply that number by 3 to get what a three rotar might make....
oh.... wait.... you did.

my thoughts are that you don't know enough about how cars and engines work, let alone how a rotary works to be making any technical suggestions.
hey!
why don't honda join two of their K20As together on a common crank and have a ferrari worrying 440bhp V8!?!
hang on.... that might be a more valid question than I reckoned....
nevermind, carry on.

being slightly more serious now.
Three rotar engine is more work than is needed if all you want is more power.
A small light pressure turbo can do this much more easily, cheaply and quickly without added the extra weight that an extra rotar would add to the engine externally and internally.

Put an RX-7 turbo-rotor in it if you want some more BANG!!

Put an RX-7 turbo-rotor in it if you want some more BANG!!

yeah those were the ones that had the least reliability, I would rather keep my reliability if the rx-8 that do that. Also they already have a 3 rotar engine, its the 20b which some people have done, there is also a 4 rotar that was used in the lamans witch is the 22b.

dont mean to say something but the lamans was actually a 26B which is two 2Rotor 13B blocks put together,they never made a 22B i know that for sure

dont mean to say something but the lamans was actually a 26B which is two 2Rotor 13B blocks put together,they never made a 22B i know that for sure

your right it was the 26b which was used in the 787

yeah those were the ones that had the least reliability, I would rather keep my reliability if the rx-8 that do that. Also they already have a 3 rotar engine, its the 20b which some people have done, there is also a 4 rotar that was used in the lamans witch is the 22b.

maybe a 93+ turbo motor

any turbo motor before that wasnt any less "reliable" than your renny

maybe a 93+ turbo motor

any turbo motor before that wasnt any less "reliable" than your renny

I was referring to the FD's not the FC's I know personally how reliable the FC's were, my step father bought one in 1986 or 87 and had it till 1998. The car had over 200k miles and thats when the exhaust caught on fire. By that time I had a little brother so my step dad bought a ford escort instead of fixing the 7

id definately go with the turbo kit that is now offered, i believe a company is installing a package that includes injectors, cpu's, etc... of coarse id prefer a three rotor turbo, but i dont have 15k to get that! i do know that people are seeing 400 hp with a 13b turbo engine(upgraded turbo, ecu, etc..of coarse.)

my engine builder said the renesis isn't that good with a turbo because you can feel everything kick in (6 ports, turbo) and it's not as smooth as stock.

honestly, if you wanted a fast car you should have gotten a mustang or 350Z, maybe evo/wrx. I liked driving the RX-8, I wish it had some more power, but as it is, it feels just right.

i bet a venom nitrous inj. kit would work well with it. u could set the nitrous to b gas pedal released, pressure sensitive, or just do a big shot at once. im sure the hot engine would luv a breathe of cold air!

i bet a venom nitrous inj. kit would work well with it. u could set the nitrous to b gas pedal released, pressure sensitive, or just do a big shot at once. im sure the hot engine would luv a breathe of cold air!

Just drop a 350 in it.

pistons? nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!lol

most likely it cant pass US emmission standards. Thats another reason why the rx8 motor is differ with side exhaust ports so fuel can completely burn.

being slightly more serious now.
Three rotar engine is more work than is needed if all you want is more power.
A small light pressure turbo can do this much more easily, cheaply and quickly without added the extra weight that an extra rotar would add to the engine externally and internally.

Have you checked the prices of turbos for rx-8's? No? Didn't think so. 3 rotors would be way more efficiant, cost effective, and powerful. Ever hear of the 787b? No? Didn't think so. And that was an old version engine. And the new 4 rotor engines in the MRR. Well "damn!" is all i gots to say about that.

As far as price goes. Yes it would cost the producers maybe and extra 100-200 bucks per car after all the bills are paid but you bet your ass for the extra ~80 horses added ~2000 bucks will be charged.

the 787B was a 4-rotor engine.

Have you checked the prices of turbos for rx-8's? No? Didn't think so. 3 rotors would be way more efficiant, cost effective, and powerful. Ever hear of the 787b? No? Didn't think so. And that was an old version engine. And the new 4 rotor engines in the MRR. Well "damn!" is all i gots to say about that.

As far as price goes. Yes it would cost the producers maybe and extra 100-200 bucks per car after all the bills are paid but you bet your ass for the extra ~80 horses added ~2000 bucks will be charged.


Have you checked the emmissions of a 3 rotor? or the gas milage of a 3 rotor? No? Didn't think so. The three rotor that you are praising is not more efficient than a 2 rotor turbo, having the turbo allows the engine to produce alot more horsepower and torque while keeping the gas miliage at a decent rate and keeping the drivability smooth. And don't get me started on how easier it is to tune a turbo 2 rotor as opposed to the 3 rotors

the 787B was a 4-rotor engine.

The original was godlike enough and that only had a 3 rotor. Somewhere around 700 horses. I think more. They changed it to the 4 later on. However, the MRR was produced to officially "advertise" the 4 rotor as the 787b had the honor of the 3 rotor.

Have you checked the emmissions of a 3 rotor? or the gas milage of a 3 rotor? No? Didn't think so. The three rotor that you are praising is not more efficient than a 2 rotor turbo, having the turbo allows the engine to produce alot more horsepower and torque while keeping the gas miliage at a decent rate and keeping the drivability smooth. And don't get me started on how easier it is to tune a turbo 2 rotor as opposed to the 3 rotors

You drive a honda don't you?

The 3 rotor is able to be customized to street driving. In fact I bet the gas milage can be put to around 28 mpg on highway with propper tuning and it should still get an average of 350+ horses. Gas milage is not dependant upon the engine so much as it is the way it is tuned. Don't believe me? Check the history of gas milage vehicles. In the late 1900's there were several gas cars up to TWICE as fuel efficient as our current hibrids. No joke. There were laws passed to protect the gas companies and such because the gas companies would have gone under (I doubt that highly) had these INCREDIBLY fuel efficient engines taken to the street. Very few vehicles were produced for this reason to save our clean earth and our wallets. makes you think twice about the government saying they are "protecting us" huh? here is some links I found in comparison:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/1709.shtml (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/1709.shtml) 1986 vehicle

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/23533.shtml 2007 vehicle

Don't just look at the fuel costs but look at the emmissions too. Kinda screwed up that a gas car is more efficiant and cleaner than an electric fuel hibrid. Yes I know the power is reduced in the vehicle I have showed you but there are still ways to have massive power as well as fuel efficiency.

Have you checked the emmissions of a 3 rotor? or the gas milage of a 3 rotor? No? Didn't think so. The three rotor that you are praising is not more efficient than a 2 rotor turbo, having the turbo allows the engine to produce alot more horsepower and torque while keeping the gas miliage at a decent rate and keeping the drivability smooth. And don't get me started on how easier it is to tune a turbo 2 rotor as opposed to the 3 rotors

O yea, and if you are going to complain about tuning a car's engine no matter how big or powerful, you are not worthy of driving beutiful machines. It's not how hard it is, but how rewarding it is.
3 rotor (properly tuned) > most 2 rotor + turbo
3 rotor + turbo > 2 rotor + turbo + flywheel + short throw + engine balance + full exhaust + transmission + suspension + oh forget it you get the idea.
3 rotor + turbo + racing tranny + racing suspension + me = god > you :grinyes: :evillol:

O yea, and if you are going to complain about tuning a car's engine no matter how big or powerful, you are not worthy of driving beutiful machines. It's not how hard it is, but how rewarding it is.
3 rotor (properly tuned) > most 2 rotor + turbo
3 rotor + turbo > 2 rotor + turbo + flywheel + short throw + engine balance + full exhaust + transmission + suspension + oh forget it you get the idea.
3 rotor + turbo + racing tranny + racing suspension + me = god > you :grinyes: :evillol:


Please, don't insult me, if you have to mod your car to appreciate it you dont deserve it.

Personally I think it's better to drive the car in an environtment where it belong (Autocrosses and road courses) that just to tune it to be faster than someone on a straight line. I take my car autocrossing and the car is perfect the way it is, mazda did a very good job making the car. The handling is superb, the only thing the car needs is a lighter flywheel to keep the revs higher up, which is something im getting soon. And all those guys who say the RX-8 could use 100 more HP havent really taken the car out on a track with twists and turns and slaloms. cause once you really push the car through a tight corner you forget all about wanting those extra horses.

so how can i say this nicely, you can spend you 15g+ on that 3 rotor alone and I will keep my stock motor and upgrade my suspension and continue to race in competitions.

You drive a honda don't you?

The 3 rotor is able to be customized to street driving. In fact I bet the gas milage can be put to around 28 mpg on highway with propper tuning and it should still get an average of 350+ horses. Gas milage is not dependant upon the engine so much as it is the way it is tuned. Don't believe me? Check the history of gas milage vehicles. In the late 1900's there were several gas cars up to TWICE as fuel efficient as our current hibrids. No joke. There were laws passed to protect the gas companies and such because the gas companies would have gone under (I doubt that highly) had these INCREDIBLY fuel efficient engines taken to the street. Very few vehicles were produced for this reason to save our clean earth and our wallets. makes you think twice about the government saying they are "protecting us" huh? here is some links I found in comparison:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/1709.shtml (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/1709.shtml) 1986 vehicle

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/23533.shtml 2007 vehicle

Don't just look at the fuel costs but look at the emmissions too. Kinda screwed up that a gas car is more efficiant and cleaner than an electric fuel hibrid. Yes I know the power is reduced in the vehicle I have showed you but there are still ways to have massive power as well as fuel efficiency.



No I dont own a honda, I own an RX-8, it's my favorite car and something I was wanting to buy for 4 years till i was able to last year. And yes a 3 rotor can be made streetable, but usually once you do that you lose what the car originally was, also the car is no longer your daily driver cause if it was then you would be broke poor.

Have you checked the prices of turbos for rx-8's? No? Didn't think so. 3 rotors would be way more efficiant, cost effective, and powerful. Ever hear of the 787b? No? Didn't think so. And that was an old version engine. And the new 4 rotor engines in the MRR. Well "damn!" is all i gots to say about that.

As far as price goes. Yes it would cost the producers maybe and extra 100-200 bucks per car after all the bills are paid but you bet your ass for the extra ~80 horses added ~2000 bucks will be charged.
From this post I'm going to have to assume you havnt looked at the price of turbos or 20B engine swaps... I havnt seen a turbo for the renesis engine that costs more than $10,000. The most expensive I can think of is the mazsport which is in the $8000 range, though I believe they have one they're working on slightly better than that.

The few people who have done a 20b engine swap have generally spent about $20,000 by the time they're finished with the swap. There isnt a kit you can go out and buy for a 20b swap, lots of parts need to be custom fabricated. Also, you have a much higher chance of passing emissions with the turbo kits. I'd rather a turbo kit that costs $8000 less (being generous) and use it's full potential rather than tune down a more expensive engine knowing I have more potential but cant use it because of emissions.

If you're talking about wanting a 20b so you can tune it to 350 hp and pass emissions, then by all means go ahead. I'd much rather buy the mazsport turbo which should dyno at 400 hp and have all that extra cash for whatever else I'd like to buy. If your main goal is just a little extra umph, then you might even be satisfied with the axial flow supercharger, which should make around 300 hp (no claims have been made, so it could be more or less).

Dont get me wrong, I'd love a 20b + turbo sitting under the hood of my car, but I wouldnt call it cost effective or fuel efficient by any means (compared to a turbo/sc). And just now, after re-reading your post, I realized you could be talking about a 20b-msp. If that's the case that's a whole other story. It would cost more than $2000. You'd need at least a new exhaust header and eccentric shaft as well as an additional rotor, rotor housing and side housing. I belive buying each of those parts is more than $2000.

most likely it cant pass US emmission standards. Thats another reason why the rx8 motor is differ with side exhaust ports so fuel can completely burn.

Quite right, though it varies by state. I recently discovered that florida doesnt have these tests... So someone in FL did a 20b swap. So if you're lucky and in the right state, it might be possible to do and still be street legal.

I road race my car and it was fun stock with good tires but now with the turbo, its a completley differnt animal. I actually detuned my set up because there was too much wheel spin when I hit full boost at 3k rpms. At my peak I was at 289.3 whp but now I'm at 277 which does not look like a big diffence wich it isnt but where the power comes in the rpm band is. Now getting back on subject, 20b's are great if you want to race around and scare old people but for the street its not ralistic, but, its you life and your money so you can do whatever you want. And saying that some one drives a honda is a low blow unless its a prelude which is ok.

Another option would be the supercharger im getting, stage 2 is 270-280whp with 200-220wtq and stage 3 when it comes out is pushing almost 340whp (400 at fly)

Another option would be the supercharger im getting, stage 2 is 270-280whp with 200-220wtq and stage 3 when it comes out is pushing almost 340whp (400 at fly)

Which are you getting? petit? if I ever do save up to go FI, I'm gonna get the axial flow. Not looking for a whole lot but a little extra umph. axial flow seems like it'll come out really well. Plus it's unique, kinda like our engines :grinyes:

Which are you getting? petit? if I ever do save up to go FI, I'm gonna get the axial flow. Not looking for a whole lot but a little extra umph. axial flow seems like it'll come out really well. Plus it's unique, kinda like our engines :grinyes:


Im not going to keep waiting for the Axial flow, i was interested in it because it wouldve been the most cost effective but it's been way too long and pettit has started development on the stage 3, they are currently pushing 338whp on it. Not to mention they are less than an hour drive from my house. Man it's good to have the two most respected tuner rotary shops nearby. Pettit racing and mazsport, both in florida with me.

For who ever started this thread:
Have you ever looked under the hood of an rx8?
Does it look like it has enough room for a motor that is about 50% longer?
Not to mention at least 50% HEAVIER!?
I wonder what that would do to the f/r weight ratio.

I have an rx8 and I think that the car is dead weight. Poor gas milage, absolutely no torque and an annoying sound is all its worth.

Ill be amazed if the "rx8 Speed" that mazda keeps talking about has more than 15 hp more than the standard rx8.

What a crappy car...

For who ever started this thread:
Have you ever looked under the hood of an rx8?
Does it look like it has enough room for a motor that is about 50% longer?
Not to mention at least 50% HEAVIER!?
I wonder what that would do to the f/r weight ratio.

I have an rx8 and I think that the car is dead weight. Poor gas milage, absolutely no torque and an annoying sound is all its worth.

Ill be amazed if the "rx8 Speed" that mazda keeps talking about has more than 15 hp more than the standard rx8.

What a crappy car...


Youre a retard, now GTFO! The car is beautiful, perfectly balanced, and it isnt heavy, mine weighs 2880 pounds which is very light by todays standards, it's not a drag car which is probably something your using it for. If youve ever taken the car on an autocross course or road course you'dfeel the true nature of the car. But you were probably one of thos epeople who bought the car not knowing what it was so there for you dont even deserve the car.

And just to correct you the 3 rotor is not 50% larger and is not 50% heavier. And as it was said before, many people have done a 3 rotor swap and guess what? perfect fit!

yeah you are right there, i will admit that. a 3 rotor does "fit" into the car, but have you looked at where it is. The original design has the 13b set behind the front axle to technically make it a mid engine car. A 3 rotor set up goes way past the front axle thus screwing around with the weight distribution of the car and mussing around with its vehicle dynamics. People that do this do it so they can have a strictly drag rx8. If your gonna drag a car and spend lots of money on it. Choose a better starting point than an rx8.

Or go ahead and be unique.

Ok your rx8 weights 2880 which means you have no extra options and cut off 8 pounds. Congrats. Do you have a 3 rotor engine in it?

Oh yeah, from what ive seen a 3 rotor turbo engine (20B) weights 350 kg with all accessories and manifolds attached. Last I checked, that wasn't exactly "light weight." Personally speaking, if I was gonna do an engine swap I would go with an ls1. The engine and transmition weight 90 lb. more than an rx7 engine and transmission combo (thanks to aluminum block and heads). Plus you get the benefit of something called torque and a huge aftermarket parts list.

oh p.s. cars don't have feelings

Youre a retard, now GTFO!

Is this how we welcome new members nowadays? :dunno:

Gotain, if you feel his contirbutions are inaccurate so be it, but I think a different means of approaching you point needs to be found. :disappoin

If you're goingto call :bs: unless proof is shown, great, I'm all for it, this is after all a forum, so let's keep it clean ok? :(

Thank you for the moderation wrightz28, but posting against an rx8 in an rx8 forum is kind of asking for it. I just don't really understand the condradictions going on here.

All I know is 3 threads in this area are going in the wrong direction. As stated, this is a forum, a meeting of different minds and opinions. So by all means, dispute your side of beliefs, that's the point, but calling names between members and make becomes personal issues and negative to the conversation.

Peace.

yeah you are right there, i will admit that. a 3 rotor does "fit" into the car, but have you looked at where it is. The original design has the 13b set behind the front axle to technically make it a mid engine car. A 3 rotor set up goes way past the front axle thus screwing around with the weight distribution of the car and mussing around with its vehicle dynamics. People that do this do it so they can have a strictly drag rx8. If your gonna drag a car and spend lots of money on it. Choose a better starting point than an rx8.

Or go ahead and be unique.

Ok your rx8 weights 2880 which means you have no extra options and cut off 8 pounds. Congrats. Do you have a 3 rotor engine in it?


I dont have the base model just so you know, I have the Sport package and appearance package on mine, which for reference the sport package is the lightest rx-8 out of the bunch including lighter than the base model. And yes youre right about the people who put the 3 rotor, that they do drag race it and yes it does throw off the balancing by making it more front end heavy, but so does the LS1, though not as much.

All I want you to do is this, go and reseach the car, and I mean reseach it, go to the RX-8 forums rx8club.com and spend like a week researching everything and learn about the car. Then take it to an Autocross and actually drive the car like it was meant to be driven. Then if you still feel the way you do then fine whatever, but at least do that before coming here and bashing a very well designed car.

Your saying that car is ment to be autocrossed not dragged, but at the same time a 3 rotor conversion is worth it and a good idea.

also, judging by your compression ratio argument. You should go back to school and take some physics classes.

For who ever started this thread:
Have you ever looked under the hood of an rx8?
Does it look like it has enough room for a motor that is about 50% longer?
Not to mention at least 50% HEAVIER!?
I wonder what that would do to the f/r weight ratio.

I have an rx8 and I think that the car is dead weight. Poor gas milage, absolutely no torque and an annoying sound is all its worth.

Ill be amazed if the "rx8 Speed" that mazda keeps talking about has more than 15 hp more than the standard rx8.

What a crappy car...

When you make statements with essentially no factual statements, it's rather hard to have a good discussion. The one thing I'll agree with being accurate is the weight distribution. I'm assuming no one forced you into buying the 8, and since that's most likely the case, then it doesnt seem very smart to start paying for something you think is crappy. When you bought it, it had poor gas mileage and same torque.

There wont be a MS rx-8 most likely. It seems they are looking towards a new rotary powered car. It should have over 300 hp N/A which isnt too hard to believe. Though it's being called the new rx-7, most believe that's just what people are calling it, and that the new car will not be called an rx-7 by mazda.

Depending on your goals, a 3 rotor swap is well worth it. If I had the money, I'd probably do it. I like the rotary, and wouldnt want to do an LS1. A 3 rotor is a very nice amount of hp, and if that's what you want, that's what you get. Most likely I'm going to be using the AFSC when it comes out though. It's one of the more conservative FI kits, but I feel like it'll give the car that extra kick it needs and wont add much weight.

btw, do you have an AT? if so, then it makes a lot more sense... lots of people regret getting ATs, but I'm guessing you have a MT

I will agree that i didn't really look into people doing three rotor swaps before making a comment on the post. That is my bad. I just didn't think people would do it. When I first bought my car, I was very excited. But slowly i grew a personal grudge with the rx8 due to the fact that its such a mish-mash of things in my opinion (Right before the rx8 I had a 2001 s2000 which I thought was a very focused and brilliant car. Even had carpet around the shfiter). Such as the 2 extra doors, large back seats, low torque, etc. I thought it was gonna be an entertaining car, but seeing as i spend lots of my time driving it in traffic. I just get more and more upset with it. Although I have on few occasions had the oppertunity to be a little ruff with it. Even then I thought it was really under powered, but it was still good fun.

What i really wanted to do is buy an rx7 (i love the way they look) and put an ls1 in it. For two reasons, I didn't want to deal with the old rotary and its turbos. And the ls1 only add 90 pounds and still preserved most of the vehicles dynamics while giving it torque that would make it much more drivable. Unfortunately I just don't have the time or money for that kind of project rightnow. Maybe in a few years.

I do have a manual however. I don't think i would be talking if I had an automatic because I would have killed myself by now.

another interesting swap is the 2jz... someone's currently working on doing that. Their goal of 1250 hp is a bit insane, but you have a rather wide range of hp you could pick from with this engine lol

http://www.racinsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5&sid=c297cd2f3edf6bc2e72a858ea0f4a109#5

1250 hp is pretty nuts, but not exactly unheard of. If he really goes all out on the motor i wouldn't be surprsied if he gets over 1k from it. I have a friend with a tt supra and he gets (depending on wastegate setting and fuel) between 5-600 hp at the wheels with a fairly "small" turbo.

its interesting that the guy is using a vvti 2jz. I haven't seen many of those around. I know the chasers had a 2.5 liter vvti. But i guess i breezed over the 3 liter ones.

My friend that has the supra told me people don't usually use them cause you can really screw up the valve system at higher hp. Ive even heard you shouldn't take them above 650. Good luck to the dude

its interesting that the guy is using a vvti 2jz. I haven't seen many of those around. I know the chasers had a 2.5 liter vvti. But i guess i breezed over the 3 liter ones.

My friend that has the supra told me people don't usually use them cause you can really screw up the valve system at higher hp. Ive even heard you shouldn't take them above 650. Good luck to the dude

lol, he claims to know what he's doing... said he's done many S2000s with this swap. I think it's a bit more interesting than ls1 (at least more uncommon for the RXs). I think that much power's a bit too much really... with that kinda money, you could shed a lot of weight and have less hp and run better at a track, or similar times at a drag strip even. With the kinda money going into that I'd much rather do a whole new suspension, wheels, mazsport turbo and all that kinda stuff... could do a lot with that kinda money.

A 2jz is def. more interesting. I liked the ls1 cause its still relatively small and all aluminum. 2jz is all iron and pretty big. But assuming that he bought the car so he could put a 2jz in it and the amount he spent on the motor and other parts, I would just get a different car....

A 2jz is def. more interesting. I liked the ls1 cause its still relatively small and all aluminum. 2jz is all iron and pretty big. But assuming that he bought the car so he could put a 2jz in it and the amount he spent on the motor and other parts, I would just get a different car....

yeah, it all depends on what his goals were I guess. Not sure if he did it, or a customer requested him doing that though... with 1250 hp I'd assume the only goal is to make it a great drag car.