abs light and traction control light...

Hi,

99 Park Ave 3.8L auto. ABS light is on and Traction control light says it is off. I had it scanned with a Snap on scanner and said it was left front wheel speed sensor, but in the last few months I already changed the wheel bearing hub assbly on the left front with a new one that also has ABS wheel speed sensor. So, I'm kinda thinkin what is up now? The whole left front is new(hub, cv,tie rod, balljoint, strut assbly). Maybe the plug needs to be jiggled or cleaned, not sure. Anyone have any ideas about this sort of problem?

Thanks

If you have the MT 2500 you can select abs on set up and look at comparative speed sensor inputs to pinpoint the suspect wheel, then focus on connections and wiring, ft sensor should be about 1020-1180 ohms, but it can pass this test and still be bad. To check the wiring get a diagram and check the resistance at the ebcm under the dash see if the resistance is the same as at the sensor.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to check the connections and make sure they're ok first. Then, since the hub is only 3 months old and warrantied, just swap it out for a new one. It was an Advanced auto hub and I don't have a whole lot of faith in their parts anymore! We'll see how it goes.

ALSO... wrong size tires. Mixed set can throw codes.. Just soz we know.
That sensor line goes by those brake lines in mine and I would suppose gets rubbed.

Just looked at my similar problem.

I bugged out my sensors from the connector on the ABS module. (No test unit here) Found the right front ( buddy says most often failure) to be bad. NO 1000 Ohms. Basically open.
PINS TO CHECK 48-30, 47-29,46-28,45,27..... should be 800-1500 Ohms


I would like to know if I need a puller to get the hub assy. off.
Im taking a shot at it as soon as I get a hub assy. Thinking I should get one from a left side of a junker. That or pay the $120 for a new one.


Thanks.

With something like this, I'd opt for new, even though the darn things are so expensive. You really can't trust anything out of a junkyard, might be as bad as what you have. You don't need a puller for the hub. I use an air hammer and it comes out with ease. If you don't have this then a hammer and chisel will work with a little bit more elbow grease. Pretty straight forward remove and replace. I had ours scanned and it read left front although everything is new, so not much for me to do, but get another new one. Hope this helps.

I sure hope you are not using any air impact tools during assembly. Good way to ruin a wheel sensor on a new hub. The axle nut should be tightened by hand and then hand torqued to the manufacturer's specifications with a torque wrench.

The other factor to consider is the brand of hub/bearing. Cheapy white box brands found at the national auto parts stores have a high failure. What brand hub did you install?

This looks like a good alternative to the chain store hub bearings. Look at the price, quality & warranty!:grinyes:
Front Wheel Hub Bearing Assembly Buick,Cadillac,Pontiac (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Front-Wheel-Hub-Bearing-Assembly-Buick-Cadillac-Pontiac_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46104QQihZ015QQ itemZ250028524963QQtcZphoto)

This looks like a good alternative to the chain store hub bearings. Look at the price, quality & warranty!:grinyes:


Price looks good Bo if they really are BCA. But there seems to be a discrepancy. I do not know if those hubs are BCA from the listing although it does shows a BCA part number of 513087. However, the BCA part number for '99 PA hub is 513121. BCA National brand.

The AC Delco/GM part number is 20-17, 12429204. If you shop around you can good deals on AC Delco ABS hubs. I get the AC Delco hubs for $151.00. :grinyes: GM list is around $323.00.

Thanks Bob, for pointing out the discrepancy in the part numbers. I noticed that the part # 513087 is good on the 92-96, however changed to #513121 for the 97-00 models. :screwy: I guess anyone interested, would need to contact the vendor for clarification.

A detailed description of both numbers listed below, FYI;

BCA Part # 513087 (92-96 PA)
Front Wheel; Hub Assembly {Front Wheel Bolt Quantity=5 Flange Dia=5.73" Bolt Circle Dia=4.53" Bolt Size=M12X1.5" Wheel Pilot Dia=2.76" Brake Pilot Dia=2.78" Flange Offset=1.66" Hub Pilot Dia=3.59" Splines=33 Flange Shape=TRIANGULAR}

BCA Part # 513121 (97-00 PA)
Front Wheel; Hub Assembly {Front/Rear Wheel Has ABS with Integral Sensor Bolt Quantity=5 Flange Dia=5.728" Bolt Circle Dia=4.527 Bolt Size=M12X1.5 Wheel Pilot Dia=2.759" Brake Pilot Dia=2.759 Flange Offset=2.736 Hub Pilot Dia=3.598 Splines=33 Flange Shape=MODIFIED TRIANGL}

Thanks Bob, for pointing out the discrepancy in the part numbers. I noticed that the part # 513087 is good on the 92-96, however changed to #513121 for the 97-00 models. :screwy: I guess anyone interested, would need to contact the vendor for clarification.

No problem Bo. Personally I'd send the guy listing the part an email and see if he carries the 513121 BCA hub for a similar cost because it is good price. It looks like they specialize in hub/bearings. Basically my choice of hubs is in this order AC Delco, BCA and then Timken.

Update

Just put on new warrantied hub from Advance Auto(old one was 3 months old). Now everything is good and no ABS or Traction control lights on. I won't hold my breath though. We'll see after a few days if they really are off for good. Brand was Dynomax, crap parts that still cost 110 bucks a pop. So, lesson learned is that warranty is good, especially for crap parts in white boxes...lol. Like I said before, I don't have a lot of faith in their parts anymore. You get what you pay for, but at those prices.....who can afford better!

Thanks for tips all!

I would like to know if you need to pull off any of the tie rods and strut to get it to come out.
I note the transaxle goes through it..
Obvious I have to pull off that big nut anyway but didnt want to mess up the allignment..


New one ordered and comming in UPS... preparing for the job.
Saw a TV show that said ABS is one of the biggest safety advance since the seat belt. .

:lol2: OH yah.. thanks for the "AVOID THE IMPACT WRENCH" post... I use mine alot.. but not on allen Philister head bolts. Curious if just a tire change could mess one up..
Thanks.
Bass... 94' Park, 94' LeSabre

I would like to know if you need to pull off any of the tie rods and strut to get it to come out.
I note the transaxle goes through it..
Obvious I have to pull off that big nut anyway but didnt want to mess up the allignment..

New one ordered and comming in UPS... preparing for the job.
Saw a TV show that said ABS is one of the biggest safety advance since the seat belt. .

:lol2: OH yah.. thanks for the "AVOID THE IMPACT WRENCH" post... I use mine alot.. but not on allen Philister head bolts. Curious if just a tire change could mess one up..
Thanks.
Bass... 94' Park, 94' LeSabre

Here is a hub replacement tech procedure with pics for a typical GM car just as a general guide. Certain bolt sizes may vary, etc.

http://baize.sys-techs.com/wheelbearing.html

Note:
However take note on steps 17 and 18. I see there is a major omission where the writer fails to mention properly torqueing (preload) the axle nut with a torque wrench to either what the hub maker specifies or GM specs.

Also you may or may not need the special hub puller although GM recommends using one. I've done the put the old axle nut on the spindle and used a hammer before to pop the spindle out.

WOW.. thats perrrrrfect... T H A N K S...

How can I repay you..
I know I will post more of my opinions.. Heh.

I found to torque that big nut to 107 ft lbs..Scratching my head thinking whether that mean 53lbs at 2 ft or 13lbs at 4 ft?
Seems kindof light.
I think I tried to take one of those off once and won with my whole weight on a 4 ft bar.. I weigh 200+,,Oh yah and thats why I started buying Craftsman, instead of Chinaman.



BASS
REALLY THANKS

UPDATE. I replaced the hub assembly on my right front.
http://baize.sys-techs.com/wheelbearing.html was a great info for confidence.
The old one just came apart in pieces as it came out. The ABS light is off now for a month and seems fine

HOWEVER,

The Traction Control Off light is turning on intermittently. Just comes on during a short trip and often just lights up. Sometimes on the freeway, sometimes its on when I start up the car and pull out of my drive and once on stays on through the whole trip.

Any stories experience, etc would be appreciated before I tackle this.

Thanks

on my 97 PA, i had the same problem with the ABS light and the traction light. i pulled codes and it told me that it was my left rear speed sensor. had it replaced, but the darn lights popped up again. i finally got under the car myself and found out that the wires connecting the speed sensors had been exposed to the weather and elements that the wires had actually corroded and became disconnected. these wire can be found just about under the rear axle. take a look at these wires and make sure they have not been damaged like mine. i took a butt splice and put them back together and have not had one problem since.

jb

Hi,
I hadn't logged on in awhile, but I will tell you this. I found out the problem about a month ago. After replacing the front left hub back in June for a wheel grind(it fell apart when I removed it so it was shot), it was good for a little while. Then after scratching my head for a few months after the light came on again, I didn't think it could be that.....but it was. Maybe a bad part(Advanced Auto) or just plain bad luck and I didn't think it could be that, but one thing is for sure. You can never really trust new parts either. Every so often you get a bad one. They gave me a new one free, but I had to rip the darn thing apart again and do it over. Much to my surprise, it did the trick and it has been good since. I did try before to clean the plug wires etc, but didn't help. Guess it was a bad bearing after all. Now the traction control is active again and the ABS light is off, just in time for snow! Moral of the story.......You really do get what you pay for! Luckily it only cost me my own labor on the car and I can live with that. Now I've got a click/clunk in the left rear to deal with. Might be a bad strut. We shall see...lol. Thanks for the input.
Mike

hey, sorry for bringing up such an old post, but this is the most informitive abs light post. ive got a '91 pa with the abs light on, autozone , advance auto all say they cant read cars pre 96, are there plugs at the wheels for the sensors to be read or do the wires run all the way to the engine compartment? im just looking for a place to start troubleshooting this system. thanks

hey, sorry for bringing up such an old post, but this is the most informitive abs light post. ive got a '91 pa with the abs light on, autozone , advance auto all say they cant read cars pre 96, are there plugs at the wheels for the sensors to be read or do the wires run all the way to the engine compartment? im just looking for a place to start troubleshooting this system. thanks

Sorry but the old thread rule is being strictly enforced, therefore this thread has been closed from any further posting. Following the guidelines located at the top of the forum just start a new post. Also, we prefer issues of this nature are not mixed up between different year groups and due to differences in the ABS systems utilized.