1997 Turns but doesn't start

Drove to work this morning with no problems. Went out mid day and the engine turns but doesn't even attempt to start. I tested the fuel supply at the needle valve and gas came out but not at the presure I expected. It has 167,000 miles and runs (ran) great.

When it turns, it sounds kind of wierd. Very staedy with little or no rsistance.

Do you have a multimeter to troubleshoot the charging system?

Was the timing belt ever changed? Better pull the timing belt cover and take a peak if you say there is little resistance.

ok, I have spark and fuel is in the fuel rail. I pulled a plug and did a compression test.... Nothing.

Timing belt here I come. Any tips before delving in?

... I pulled a plug and did a compression test.... Nothing.

Timing belt here I come. Any tips before delving in?

wow...this'll be the first actual broken tb i've ever heard of, if that's what it is. did you test more than the one cylinder?

tips? well, usually it's the timing belt tensioner that goes (and causes an awful thrown-rod type racket).
usually you do all these at the same time because of labor and wear factors
*timing belt
*timing belt tensioner
*some say tb pulley (i don't)
*water pump -- it's behind the timing belt; almost the same labor whether diy or paying
*'ouside' belt(s) serpentine or three separate (a/c,power steering,alternator)

and a good manual
the best and most expensive by far is the factory manuals available at
www.helminc.com (http://www.helminc.com)
or the online subscription service which essentially duplicates the factory pages, but it's only $25 for the first year
www.alldata.com (http://www.alldata.com)
last (and least but probably good to have anyway) the haynes manual, followed by chilton...

hth

Did the list ever come to a position on whether the pre 98 engines were zero tolerance? If you spun the belt, like I did, and you have a zero tolerance engine you probably heard a crunching of the valves... Unless you have been extremely luck and not of the valves were down fully on all of the cylinders.. Take one of the cam belt covers off and see if the belt is still on and tight... Good luck...

Did the list ever come to a position on whether the pre 98 engines were zero tolerance? If you spun the belt, like I did, and you have a zero tolerance engine you probably heard a crunching of the valves... Unless you have been extremely luck and none of the valves were down fully on all of the cylinders.. Take one of the cam belt covers off and see if the belt is still on and tight... Good luck...

Did the list ever come to a position on whether the pre 98 engines were zero tolerance? If you spun the belt, like I did, and you have a zero tolerance engine you probably heard a crunching of the valves... Unless you have been extremely luck and none of the valves were down fully on all of the cylinders.. Take one of the cam belt covers off and see if the belt is still on and tight... Good luck...IIRC, Jerry Lemond (JLEMOND on 4x4Wire.com) says that ALL Isuzu 3.2L and 3.5L engines are non-interference... that's good enough for me.

The DOHC 3.2's have a bit more clearance then the SOHC ones do. I have heard of a couple SOHC ones that bent valves when theirs broke on these boards. I guess it depends on what you are doing at the time it breaks as to whether the valves were hit. I've seen probably 4 or 5 posts of the SOHC ones breaking from some really old posts.

.... I have heard of a couple SOHC ones that bent valves when theirs broke on these boards. I guess it depends on what you are doing at the time it breaks as to whether the valves were hit. I've seen probably 4 or 5 posts of the SOHC ones breaking from some really old posts.

really. . .
never heard of that. as i understand the concept of the non-interference configuration, it's non-interference, not mostly-non-interference.

the engine, pistons and valves, afterall, move the same no matter what you're doing at the time.

i'd like to read how that happened on the 3.2 sohc isuzu engines. can you point us to those posts please gizmo?

thanks,

/bc

Did the list ever come to a position on whether the pre 98 engines were zero tolerance?. . ..

what list?



repeat::rofl:

what list?

thanks

/bc

Tore it down today and the belt was bad. The teeth were sheared right off the belt for 12-14 inches. Pretty nasty looking actually. I have only had the truck for 30,000 of the 178,000 miles and I have no records of prior maint, so it could be the origional one.

I will post a picture of it in the next few days along with a final cost, tools needed and hours for a so so wrench turner.

Reassmble is in the morning and I have my fingers crossed that the motor is a non-interference. At this point I believe it is because I have heard no crunching. Any tips on aligning the system would be greatly appreciated.

Tore it down today and the belt was bad. The teeth were sheared right off the belt for 12-14 inches. Pretty nasty looking actually. I have only had the truck for 30,000 of the 178,000 miles and I have no records of prior maint, so it could be the original one.

I will post a picture of it in the next few days along with a final cost, tools needed and hours for a so so wrench turner.

Reassmble is in the morning and I have my fingers crossed that the motor is a non-interference. At this point I believe it is because I have heard no crunching. Any tips on aligning the system would be greatly appreciated.Aside from Jerry's expertise as a former Isuzu "something-or-other" the Gates Timing Belt Replacement Guide (http://www.gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=TBR05.pdf&folder=brochure) also states that these engines are non-interference. Any engine listed that has an asterix beside it is an interference engine, the 3.2L and 3.5L V6s don't have the asterix.

I'm trying to find past posts but search functions dont like me today. I distinctly remember one within the last 6 months (I beleive on the planet) where everyone was telling the poster not to believe their mechaninc that the valves are bent from a broken or slipped belt because the engine is non interference. The head was pulled and walla, bent valves and smacked piston.

I have heard of several supposedly non-interference engine designs damage internals with a breakage of the timing belt. Fact. Don't care what the manuals say. It happens.

I very recently on one of these boards, too, read that someone had recently replaced the belt, then a few days later had to replace the tensioner as the belt started slipping, in which, IIRC, he'd opened it back up and found damage to his valves.

When my Waterpump gave out in February, it caused the timing belt tensioner to weaken, thus the belt slipped a tooth - all of this occured while simply idling trying to figure out where the antifreeze was coming from.

The whole timing belt package was replaced, engine sustained 0 damage - but I don't want to imagine what "could" have happened had I actually been driving it.

I have heard of several supposedly non-interference engine designs damage internals with a breakage of the timing belt. Fact. Don't care what the manuals say. It happens.

okay...
how?
and what engines specifically, if you know. thanks.

non-interference by definition means just that -- the installed valve cannot hit the installed cylinder. fact. :lol:

now if it's happening somehow that's what i want to know, so i know it's just not some suburban legend :grinyes:

thanks


and kenc195: thanks alot for the followup and i am looking forward to your "full report". thnks again...

//bc

. . .the Gates Timing Belt Replacement Guide (http://www.gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=TBR05.pdf&folder=brochure) also states that these engines are non-interference. . . ..

nice resource canuclehead, thanks.
fwiw the page numbers are
isuzu catalog pp 11 - 12; pdf pp13 -14
passport catalog p 10; pdf p 12

this catalog listing also shows a 4 cyl engine in the 1997 rodeo. and that eng is shown as an interference engine. is that listing correct, that the 1997 came with 4-cyl interference engines as well as the 3.2 v6 noninterference engines?

anyway, maybe that's where the confusion comes in.. .?



hey, anybody know what "list" was referred to in a post above?

thanks


/bc

2.0L gas engine in the MKIII Golf and Jetta. VW claims it is a non-interference engine. If you go to VWvortex.com and search interference in the 2.0L engine forum, you will find the same type of threads arguing whether or not this is an interference engine. I broke my belt, did not bend valves. Most do not. Some have. Can't explain it. Just know I'll suspect bent valves if it doesn't run right after throwing the belt.

Here's a thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1545805
The last poster offers an explanation for non-interference engines bending valves.

The "list" is mythical. More of a consensus as to whether the 3.2s are really non interferance or not.

I think if you are on the gas hard or really revving the engine theres a possiblility of bending the valves. If you are idling or lightly on the gas, or stopping then chances are you wont bend them. This is just my theory though.

OK, I am about to put the bent valve question to rest.... I am one of the posters that believes he bent his valves... I had just replaced my 3rd timing belt and was going down the road... Did not have the normal power, thought I might be off a tooth... Thought I would drive it home after dropping my daughter off and recheck everything... Then, click, loud crunch, then light taps... , loss of power, and it felt like I had lost a valve... Ever drove a car with a bad valve, or a motorcycle with a compression release? Same sound. Takes all the power out.. I knew what had happened, 1 mile to go... Then, Crunch, Crunch, crunch... That was that...

This happened in march. Bought a new Civic, figured with 208k miles the Rodeo owed me nothing, parked the Rodeo... Today I pulled it to the barn with the tractor. Decided to reset the belt since none of the literature on line stated that the 3.2 isuzu was not an interference engine... Well, put the belt on, had to turn the cams to line them up... One would not turn until I turned the crankshaft (isnt that telling, piston in the way?)..... Put belt on, turned the key, wah thunk... Stopped dead.. Thankfully, battery is a little low. Powerfull battery probably would have bent more valves, and yes I was in neutral.

I know this is an interference engine, but I will have the ultimate proof in a few days. Pulling this head off is not easy. I have all of the top crap off, now I am going through the wheel well to get at the manifold bolts. Then, the head bolts and then pictures for everyone!:wink:

Redbug - I thought you had been the one, but didn't want to put you on the plate as you hadn't mentioned it before in THIS thread, so I wasn't sure if it was you or not.

It would be nice if you could post any and all pictures/problems you may come across. Do you have any guesses why a new belt would slip and cause this?

Ramblin Fever,

Let me just say this: I loved/love my Rodeo, my first Brand New vehicle. I loved everything about it. I maintained it well.. Polished it 1 to 2 times a year. Changed the oil religously every 3k. Loaded it with Huge trailers, once towed 6000 lbs. Took it out on the beach in NC. It got me through many large snow storms in PA. Excellent for trips to home depot to pick up 10' long pieces of lumber etc... 208k with original muffler, alternator. The only things I replaced other than filters were tires, y-flex pipe, water pump (it was not bad), injectors. OK, I feel better now.

What I am trying to say is I maintained it well. So, I think this was the 4th belt, 1=60,2=120,3=180 and then I got the belt adjuster knock in the engine at 208k, so I decided to go in again after my 180 change and do everything to the belt system. I did not feel great about having an old waterpump in since 120k so I decided to change that again while I was in.

Another new belt, new pulleys, new adjuster. I really don't know exactly what happened but here is my theory.... I believe that there may be a worn bearing on one of the camshafts. I think the new tensioner pulled the cam tightly on to the worn surface and caused it to tighten up, and then made it slip the belt.

When I took it appart there were no signs that the belt was out of alignment, it was still on all of the pulleys and cams. My only other theory is that the belt was crap.

I should know by this weekend provided the rain does not keep me inside...

I almost junked the Rodeo but did not because 1) I keep hoping I can fix it again, 2) I really want to know why this happened, and 3) I want to lay to rest whether this engine is an interference engine or not....

I will keep everyone posted.....

Regards,

Redbug
Pottstown, PA:rofl:

. . . because 1) I keep hoping I can fix it again, 2) I really want to know why this happened, and 3) I want to lay to rest whether this engine is an interference engine or not....

I will keep everyone posted....

i for one am looking forward to your report. my guess is that your gut feeling that your "clunk" was an installed valve hitting the piston may very well be true. certainly none of us were there to tell you otherwise.

but. . . as of yet anyway, in of itself, this does not mean that your 1995 3.2 V6 isuzu engine is an "interference" engine. from the way you talk even though you "know" that it is, you really want to know what happened, how and why (for yourself and for all us little eager ones out here). while i'm solidly in the "non-interference" camp, i'm very interested to know what actually happened...and what could logically have caused it.

i hope you'll be able to take and post umpteen photos on this as you go. thanks. :useless: [well, not really, but they'd sure be nice.]

and most of all, sorry you went through all this -- first new cars are special. and i hope it turns out there is a positive reason you held on to it all this time.

good luck,



//bc

[[[EDIT: what was the condition of the sparkplugs? i assume since you haven't mentioned it, that there wasn't any breakage there (?)

My personal feeling is to treat it as an interferance engine whether it is or not. Do you really want it to break on you in the middle of nowhere or on a trail? Towing isnt cheap.

Had that happen on my '74 civic 2 weeks after I bought it. Between towing and what the shop charged to do it it cost almost as much as I paid for the car.

I don't know if this is a related problem or not. On my 99 Rodeo, after running the a/c, I experience a no idle/run situation. It will not stay running or idleing for a few minutes. I have to give it gas to keep it running. After a few minutes of keeping the motor at 2k rpm or so, it will surge a couple of times and then Idle fine. It only does this after running the a/c. When I don't use the a/c, it will start and idle/run just fine. Ideas or suggestions?
Jim

I have made some progress, got rained out on saturday. But, I can tell you this is not an easy job... I really feel it might have been easier to pull the engine. I went in from the wheel well to loosen the (driver) exhaust manifold nuts.. Was able to get at a few but some are unaccesable. I decided that I would unbolt the manifold from the y-pipe and hopefully be able to pull everything up as a unit. Rounded manifold y-pipe nut while using a 6pt socket.... Went out and bought nut extractor kit from Sears, $40.00, great kit. Crushed a 3/8 extension with 1/2 inch breaker bar and step down during process. Finally the nut broke loose.

Everything is very tight in there.. I now have to get the power streering pump off, or maybe it will come out as one unit... Did I say it's very tight in there...?

Talking with my father the mechanical engineer about this. He thought it might be because of blow causing sludge and plugging up a oil hole in cam... Even though I have changed oil at 3k religously, it could happen... When you get blow by water gets into crankase. We also talked about a valve dropping in, yes, that's possible, but highly unlikely or very coincidental... Not sure about spark plug, it was hitting on all 6 when the failure accured, if a spark plug went out I would have had a miss.

Gizmo42. I agree with your statements, that's why I was keeping up with the maintenance... I used to bend valves on my second hand 1971 SL125 when the cam chains spun. After 3 sets of valves I found out that the previous owner had rebuilt oil pump and left out o-rings.....

Jimwelsh... I doubt your problem is relatad... If you had spun your belt it would never run right, even if you did not bend a valve... Sounds like an issue with your high idle mechanism. It idles up when you put on the air because of extra load on engine....

Maybe I will get to it a little more today, keep you posted.

:banghead:

OK, got the head off... What a pain. If I had to do it over I would have hoisted the engine out first...

Ok, the verdict is, a busted valve that broke off at the base of the stem.... Not exactly sure why or how it happened. I can't be sure that the piston caused this to happen... And boy wasn't it great that it happened right after $400.00 spent on new parts! If it wasn't the piston that clobbered it, what a coincidence that it happened within 2 miles after changing the belt....

I have pictures but I am having trouble getting my hosting site to take the files... When I get it together I will post the pictures.



Now I need to find a used engine or scrap the Rodeo....

How does the piston and cylinder look? If they are ok then just get a head. Or if the head isnt beat up just have a valve job done.

:banghead:

...Ok, the verdict is, a busted valve that broke off at the base of the stem.... Not exactly sure why or how it happened. I can't be sure that the piston caused this to happen...what a coincidence that it happened within 2 miles after changing the belt....

well, that's too bad. i was hoping for something odd, but friendlier. the only pictures i've seen of valves smacked by an interfering piston had bent stems, but not broken. was the keeper intact?

hopefully someone will weigh in with some real world experience on this...JLEMOND ARE YOU THERE?

I have pictures but I am having trouble getting my hosting site to take the files... When I get it together I will post the pictures.

thanks for keeping us informed...and educated.
btw, i hope gizmo's ideas are feasible for you.


//bc

Here are the pictures.

Looks OK for 11 years and 208k miles.
http://www.cyclerestorer.com/images/rodeo/rodeo.jpg
No sludge due to regular oil changes at 3k miles, thats 69 oil changes, 414 quarts, 69 filters....

http://www.cyclerestorer.com/images/rodeo/cam.jpg
Notice Crack in cylinder wall below....
http://www.cyclerestorer.com/images/rodeo/piston.jpg
Why? Did the piston hit it first? Unusual for an intake valve to fail under normal usage. Valve seat looked good..... Other intake valve does not seem to be bent....
http://www.cyclerestorer.com/images/rodeo/broke_valve.jpg

Thanks for posting the pictures. Who knows what caused it, but apparently with normal usage an engine which came from the factory as non-interference can develop an intereference situation with wear. What's the plan?

Thanks a bunch for posting the pics.

Glad I went ahead and changed mine when I did, seems too coincidental to me to not have been caused by the timing belt - since you'd JUST changed it.

Tore it down today and the belt was bad. The teeth were sheared right off the belt for 12-14 inches. Pretty nasty looking actually. I have only had the truck for 30,000 of the 178,000 miles and I have no records of prior maint, so it could be the origional one.

I will post a picture of it in the next few days along with a final cost, tools needed and hours for a so so wrench turner.

Reassmble is in the morning and I have my fingers crossed that the motor is a non-interference. At this point I believe it is because I have heard no crunching. Any tips on aligning the system would be greatly appreciated.

hey kenc195: where are you?



how did all this go for you? your thread got kind of highjacked, to say the least, but we're still interested in what happened with you. Really, honest. well, i am, anyway. . .

how'd the belt go, and how's it running and can you post those pics and report? hope all went well.

in any case, we know from redbug's saga, that his is not an interference engine, although the carnage was not pretty.


//bc

Looks OK for 11 years and 208k miles. absolutely...and can easily see why you didn't want to part with it.

No sludge due to regular oil changes at 3k miles, thats 69 oil changes, 414 quarts, 69 filters....yeah...looking o-k-a-y-y-y.

and then BAM what a picture redbug, what a bummer. damn.

but at least now you know you don't have an interference engine -- cause if that broken valve stem was the result of interference, all the valve stems would have shown the affects of slamming up against their respective cylinders at some 50 times per second. but, YIKES.

so what did happened? Valve stems do break. and obviously yu had some issues. . .
Notice Crack in cylinder wall below....
and it looks like the corresponding area on the head perhaps has a crack, too. (or maybe that's just the contact-area transfer?) that crack didn’t ‘just’ happen, that’s been there a while, i’d say, from the residue that seems to be there.

anyway, you’d think that excessive heat in this area would have something to do with the failure, and the cracked cylinder, and maybe cracked head, all either contributed or were the result.

Why? Did the piston hit it first? Unusual for an intake valve to fail under normal usage. Valve seat looked good..... Other intake valve does not seem to be bent....
And no, the piston did not hit it first, imo. If that were the case all the other valves would be bent. Your doing, what, 3000 rpm when this happened? That’s like 50 revolutions per second. even immediate shut down, you’re hitting every valve with every cylinder if it’s an interference issue. (and if i remember correctly, you actually drove it quite a while with the engine running poorly, and before the failure.)

What condition was that valve’s valve guide? How did it compare with the others?
Have you found out any other ‘interesting’ things upon further inspection?

Btw, what about the valve spring? A broken valve spring will give the loss of power and other running conditions you had, iirc, just prior to the valve going. The valve spring may very well look intact until you disengage it. And the keeper? Everything was still intact, presumably, before the event?

A broken spring might, i said might allow the valve to drop enough to hit the cylinder. And then that could have broken the stem instead of bending it. That’s possible. And that could explain why only the one valve was affected. This would be different than the interference- non-intereference engine aspects ---

Well, You’ve got it all apart now; it’d be easy enough to see if that spring is broken and then test that theory out.

It’d be useful to know if others are beginning to experience this type of failure as their 3.2L v6’s turn over 200,000 miles. I haven’t seen such; has anybody else?

The cracked cylinder is what really gets me. I just keep coming back to heat…and/or lubrication. Tell us again, will you, weren’t you experiencing some running problems prior to this fateful trip?

Sad part is, looks like your engine is toast. So what do you think you’ll do now?

Sorry it wasn’t better news.

You're arguing theory and semantics. If you break a timing belt on a non-interference engine, you can damage internals.

TrooperBC - Chances are we may never know EXACTLY what happened to cause this; we can speculate all we want, but the truth is thing's just happen.

I'm in that same - what the hell happend - mode with my '85 Toyota 22RE p/up, aside from being 21yrs old and having close to 300k miles - it's in, or it WAS in superb condition, engine wise, as it has a new engine with only 60k miles on it, already had a headgasket failure on it in February, then has developed this consistent oil leak that we now feel is coming from the crankshaft area, the engine sounds more and more like a can of marbles, it keeps blowing out spark plugs, but still runs like a bat out of he$$.

When the headgasket went, the truck did get warm, but did not overheat; and after the repair, we thought all was good for a while, it's obviously not, as we've dug in and replaced the crankshaft seal, that's not what was leaking - and the noise, we've discovered, is the crankshaft itself.

We were going to keep it around as a back-up farm/land truck, but I think we'll just part it out - it's a shame though, as we put over $3k in the last year on it, as it was running really good.

You just never know, sometimes sh$$ happens ya know.

It would be nice if Redbug could fix his rig - it's still in REALLY nice shape, but it does get expensive to do so, and then there's still no guarantee.

Ok, here is the outcome you all have been waiting for. New belt is installed and she runs smoother and quieter then ever. Keep in mind though it ran fine when I shut it off then never restarted. I think it sheared the belt teeth on the restart. But I did cank it a lot during the troubleshooting. Lucky as hell or truly non interference..... you be the judge.

Here are some tips
1. Keep track of the bolt / nut locations when taking the timing belt covers off. I did not and it took forever getting them right. I still have one that I cant figure out the location.

2. Start putting the belt on from the crankshaft then work clockwise without the tensioner bolted on. I did not and it took forever getting it on untill I did

3. Normal tools except for the 24mm deep socket to remove the nut from the crankshaft. A 3 jaw puller is also a handy item. Most everything is 12mm, 14mm or 17mm socket and 4 inch extension.

I did not follow instructions very well and it was 108 outside (I live in Phoenix) so I took lots of water breaks. Probably could have done it in about 5 hours otherwise.

Oh ya, the belt $57.00 from Napa, tensioner from delaer $87.00, water pump $65.00 Napa and misc was about $25.00. I did not change idler pullies because them ran smooth and were $170.00 and $320.00 respectfully

1. Keep track of the bolt / nut locations when taking the timing belt covers off. I did not and it took forever getting them right. I still have one that I cant figure out the location.


When I tore it down for my timing belt replacement, I took a Sharpie out the and numbered every bolt that came out. Looks a little strange, but I got them all back in! I also have about 15 pictures of the engine bay from a digital camera on my hard drive in case I can't figure how to put something back together.

. . .1. Keep track of the bolt / nut locations when taking the timing belt covers off. I did not and it took forever getting them right. I still have one that I cant figure out the location.

it's not the one that also goes to the water pump, too, is it? [lower left looking at the water pump? (iirc and i may not, and can't access my notes right now) ]


thanks for the followup. must have been nasty trying to get all those gears' timing marks lined up with the sweat running in your eyes. yikes.

glad it all worked out.



//bc

kenc195

Glad to hear you got it all back together and running right again. Luckily I shouldnt have to tackle mine for quite a while, the guy I bought it from just replaced all that stuff the week before I bought it (was one of the main reasons I bought it).

redbug

That just sucks. I'm with the others in not being able to tell how that happened. Your rodeo looks to be in really nice shape too. If it were mine and I had another vehicle to drive for a while (or buy a cheap beater for a while) I would look for a used low(er) mileage engine to drop in and just make a weekends project out of it. Just put all your new parts and known good accessories on the newer engine.

And kenc just to help cool you off, here is a pic I took today while wheeling. It was around 30 deg with 60-70 mph winds. Around 12,700 ft above sea level. Yes, that is snow from last night.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c337/Gizmo420/Magnolia-Kingston-Yankee%20Loop/IMG_0262.jpg

Ok,

Final word... I believe TrooperBC wins the prize... I decided to look at the head and examine the keepers on the valve that failed.... Looked in the head and noticed that the valve spring was not there... I looked around on the block and found the keeper holder and the springs. I had turned the head upside down while wrestling it out... The springs seems to have fatigued.... Looks like 4000 running hours is about all you will get out of this engine, which I believe was a good value. Considering that most engines were/are designed for 100k or about 2000 running hours.

Also, I babied this engine, rarely going over 3k when shifting.... It was not abused.

http://www.cyclerestorer.com/images/rodeo/spring.jpg

I don't believe the crack in the cylinder was there before the failure. If it was there I surely would have sucked in some antifreeze... I believe the presure from the valve smacking against the head probably caused the crack...

Interference or not? Now I am leaning toward non-interference... Facts are I did not spin my belt... So, I guess I will trust Gates documentation stating that the 1995 rodeo is not on their list of interference engines....

Future plans? Well, when I get over the shock I figure I have 3 options now.

1) Get a used engine.
2) Scrap it.
3) Part it out on ebay.

1) No rust on the body, but the frame is a little rusty... Previous vehicle was a 1985 Trooper, 145k, frame rusted out....

2) Always an option.

3) A lot of work and not sure if its worth my time....

Best decision right now is no decision....

Wow! That's one reason I like my 8V VW - less stuff to break!
Gotta concede to trooperbc in this case!

Oh man, that's a bummer.

It's too bad that these engines are supposedly only good for 200k miles, I'm hoping to get at least 300k out of mine - just put a lot into it maintenance wise.

I've read on another board, that while it's ok to baby an engine, it's actually not good to baby it all the time as when one needs to go above the normal rpm it can cause damage - whether or not this is really true, who knows.

I too have a habit of babying my engine, but it does see 4k rpm's at least 3 times a month.

wow i guess a spring can only go up and down so much. but i do think you got you moneys worth (like you said)
as far as the future goes if you can find a reasonably junk yard motor that might be a good option. where else can you get a vehicle that you know so well for the price of a used motor? if you put it in yourself you are even more ahead. on the other hand, after this many years driving that rodeo, i could also understand wanting a change just because you are tired of the vehicle.
if you go the used motor route keep us posted. love the pics!

Is it posible that being a tooth off on your belt put some weird stresses on the valve train? Maybe a lot of micro vibrations or something. Just a wild a%$ guess but I'm hoping on more than 200K

I dont know how much work would be involved in putting in a DOHC or just using parts from it but this might be worth looking into..

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?t=8712

Kenc195,

No, I think the knocking I thought was a bad belt tensioner was probably the valve tappet knocking around due to a weak spring... The rocker arm tappet was pretty beat up also...

As far as the DOHC engine, I don't think so. I see a few on ebay from japan.. Apparently in japan you can't have a car with more than 60k on it, so they part them out and sell them on ebay. The DOHC engine says it is for 93-95. But, looking at the engine I can't see a simple fit. Plus, $1400.00, almost as much as the rodeo is worth. Looks like a lot of customizing which I don't want to do... I would just want to pop the same type of engine in and go.

i'm pretty sure my timing belt went about half an hour ago. i was driving, went to change gears and then there was nothing. no compression. but it was quiet as a mouse, so fingers crossed theres no other damage. the annoying thing is that my new enging has only done 20k at the most.

ausdeo - the '91-92 engines have the 3.1L GM engine which has a timing chain, not a belt.

But, you mentioned it has a new engine, do you know what kind?

it's a 4ze1 2.6 petrol. maybe still under warrantee.
it's at my mechanics now.

ausdeo - the '91-92 engines have the 3.1L GM engine which has a timing chain, not a belt.

But, you mentioned it has a new engine, do you know what kind?

just a question? would driving through mud holes and water crossings damage the timing belt at all?

How much water were you driving through? If it got above the crankshaft pully then it surely got into the belt area behind the plastic covers. I'm assuming its a 4 cylinder. I don't really know the engine, but I have never heard of a belted engine having a water tight belt cover...

Think about it, what could it damage? If it was straight water maybe nothing bad would happen... Though, if there are idler pulleys in there they could get wet and rust the bearings... If it was muddy water I could see some potential build up of crap between the cogged pulleys, but I doubt it would stick for long, though maybe long enough to cause wear to the belt... I don't know if you will have much of a case with a warranty if the belt area is full of mud....

Good luck....

it's a 4ze1 2.6 petrol. maybe still under warrantee.
it's at my mechanics now.

Thats not good. I believe all the 4cyl gas engines are interferance fit, so most likely the valves got smacked. That is, if it was actually a timing belt break.

Hopefully the warrenty covers it.

Sorry, yes the 2.6L engines are interference engines with the timing belt, and they do cause $$$$ engine damage if they break.

Sorry, I just assumed you had the 3.1L GM V6 engine as my '91 Rodeo had which is the chain belt that lasts way beyond 100k miles, or at least mine had.

goodish news, cars all done. it was a broken timing belt. caused by mud and crap. the pully had seased and then the belt broke. not under waranty though. no other damage, wich is good.
a 4ze1 is a 4 cylinder. pretty gutless, but they do the job .
thanks for your help..

goodish news, cars all done. it was a broken timing belt. caused by mud and crap. the pully had seased and then the belt broke. not under waranty though. no other damage, wich is good.
a 4ze1 is a 4 cylinder. pretty gutless, but they do the job .
thanks for your help..

so any other damage due to the broken belt?

so any other damage due to the broken belt?

no thats it. just the belt and pully. pretty lucky i recon.