grinding in third gear

i have a 1990 civic dx with a sohc mpfi zc swap in it with the stock dx trans.ive always had this problem when i shift into third it will always grind if i dont let the revs drop a lot more then i should have to.just wondering what posiblities it could be all the gears work fine no shift problems with any other gears.had this same problem with second ger on my 89 prelude si but it died before i ever got the chace to look into it.the civic grinded into 3rd even when i had the 1.5 in it.have a new cluch and had the flywheel resurfaced.

sounds like a bad gear synchro

Check the fluid, but the synchros are probably on the way out. You'll probably be fine for a long time though, mine ground 3rd for almost 3 years before it started popping out of gear, then it's a problem. I raced it at the track like that too, it's fine.

Actually, the guy that bought my car is still using that tranny.

so are the syncros hard to replace or is this a better off to get a diffrent transmission kind of thing.

Better off to get a different transmission for what they cost used.

Just grind it! You'll get lots of grinding left before its actally a problem.

My LX trans did the same, started right after I put the STS in it.. (short throw)... I changed the fluid to a heavier weight, and it stopped, and 38000 miles later, my friend is driving it and it only does it when we start rippin gears down the highway.. but then again, the shifter is 70% shorter than stock, so the tranny and engine don't have time to spin down before it's trying to go in gear.

The moral of the story is, check the fluid, drain it, check for metal, then refill it with something a lil heavier, say 20W50 motor oil, since some tranny's take motor oil, or some manuals take ATF, and some take gear oil... I wouldn't use gear oil in a honda... it's too thick... and they are more precisely put together than the older ones were... basically figure out what yours takes, then put something just a lil bit heavier in it.. if that don't stop it, go one step heavier, and if that don't stop it, it just ain't gonna happen...

Good luck with it though, and he's right, it will last forever with the grind, but it's just a lil annoying.

what happens when the tranny starts popping outta gear? Mine never ground in any gear, but awhile ago it did start popping outta third when I would turn corners with the clutch in, tranny in third going around corners and stuff. Now yesterday, I downshifted and the car stopped moving, and I found fluid leaking under my car. Funny thing is I can feel all the gears on my shifter, and the speedo works when I let the clutch out...just the car won't move..is this the synchros?

what happens when the tranny starts popping outta gear? Mine never ground in any gear, but awhile ago it did start popping outta third when I would turn corners with the clutch in, tranny in third going around corners and stuff. Now yesterday, I downshifted and the car stopped moving, and I found fluid leaking under my car. Funny thing is I can feel all the gears on my shifter, and the speedo works when I let the clutch out...just the car won't move..is this the synchros?

Sounds like your differential gear is dead, your able to select gears and all but the power is not being tranferred to your axles, while your VSS is reading a speed. I'd say just swap out for a used tranny as the cost for a rebuild will be a lot more than buying one used.

thanx for the info...I was baffled cause normally when a tranny has blown on me you usually hear some grinding noises and whatnot to let you know something inside has let go..I hear no grinding or anything and the clutch was weak to begin with...now I'm sure its a tranny problem

Excessive engine/trans rolling can cause that too, check all your mounts for wear and replace as necessary

This is due to the solid linkage between the shifter and transmission, the transmission rolls at an odd angle, and that puts pressure on the shifter, which may cause it to kick out of gear
:2cents:

Check your cv shafts, you could have snapped the driver side one and thrown it out of the trans, it will leak fluid if this happens, and also will get you nowhere with an open differential, one wheel spins, but isnt connected..

My LX trans did the same, started right after I put the STS in it.. (short throw)... I changed the fluid to a heavier weight, and it stopped, and 38000 miles later, my friend is driving it and it only does it when we start rippin gears down the highway.. but then again, the shifter is 70% shorter than stock, so the tranny and engine don't have time to spin down before it's trying to go in gear.

The moral of the story is, check the fluid, drain it, check for metal, then refill it with something a lil heavier, say 20W50 motor oil, since some tranny's take motor oil, or some manuals take ATF, and some take gear oil... I wouldn't use gear oil in a honda... it's too thick... and they are more precisely put together than the older ones were... basically figure out what yours takes, then put something just a lil bit heavier in it.. if that don't stop it, go one step heavier, and if that don't stop it, it just ain't gonna happen...

Good luck with it though, and he's right, it will last forever with the grind, but it's just a lil annoying.

so your saying that you put a shifter that was 70% shorter than stock? um...wtf?

let's do some round numbers.
so if the shifter stock was 10 inches long and yours is 70% shorter than that means your shifter is 3 inches long.

and someone explain to me how making your shifter an inch or two shorter is going to cause your engine and tranny don't got time to spin down? that makes no sense.

and putting heavier oil in huh? wow, why don't you just go get some lucas and pour it into your tranny. it will work, however, it comes out the bottle slow as shit. that's no joke.:2cents:

and the term sts is used for the turbo system. who makes the short throw shifter into an acronym? but you should look up the sts. it's a really cool system, completely eliminates the muffler.

dude.. the shifter INSIDE the car is literally pretty close to the same length as stock.... they don't cut the shifter to make the throw shorter, only ricers do that.. and it fucks up your shifting, b/c the torque angle is wrong... they extend the bottom of it, so that there is more movement at the shift actuator with less movement at the knob.

It's not just one shifter though, it's a APC short throw with a secondary on it... bolted a couple of bars to it, one on each side at the bottom, then ran those half way up another shifter that just bolts to the floor in front of the Ebrake, (it don't go through the floor) effectively making the throw at the second shifter about 70% shorter than stock, so instead of throwing the shifter 5 inches (close to stock) it goes about 1 1/2 before you're in the next gear... and since the shift time is so short, even if you're not ripping gears, the synchro's hit before the flywheel/engine can spin down... it's pretty much common sense though.

And it's a lot cheaper to just put heavier fluid in it... not to mention that he will want to drain it anyway.. if he's grinding, there are metal shavings in the oil... bad for bearings etc.

STS is also a model of caddilac... has been for years... I just decided to abbreviate short throw shifter for some odd reason.. I do that sometimes.. got a link I can check for the STS turbo thing? I'd like to look at that.

so your saying that when i race i want my engine and tranny to spin down?
wont that make me lose rpm's?
don't you want to shift as fast as you can before the engine and tranny have time to spin down?

sts link: ststurbo.com
watch the demo it will explain everything.

Nah, but you're prolly not racing with a trans that has bad synchro's in the first place... the synchro's are to make the gears spin at the same speed, so that they engage easier. When they go bad, spindown plays a major role in the life of the rest of the tranny.

When you're racing, however, you shouldn't be grinding gears either, if you're shifting too fast to not grind, try taking the selector out of gear BEFORE you hit the clutch, as you're letting off the gas pedal. Literally, start pulling/pushing on the shifter as you're getting ready to lift off the pedal, and it will kick out of gear as soon as you hit neutral throttle...

That's how I drive all the time.. just used to it I guess.

@STS turbo kit... that's nothing new.. it was on firebirds (I'm pretty sure) as a stock option in the 80's... it was called a "rear mounted turbo" I believe.. I'll have to check up on that again.

I dont think I have used the clutch to come out of 5th gear in damn near 6 months... just let off and tap it back, pop..out it goes.

yep, it's called neutral shifting... if you're really good, you can actually shift w/o the clutch completely doing that... no gear grinding, etc. Just pull/push the shifter toward the next gear, (upshifting) and wait for the engine to spin down from revs, it will just pop into gear with a lil pressure...

Down shifting w/o the clutch can be done too, relatively easy, but if you're going to do it, practice on a tranny you don't care about.. you may damage it severely...
1. lift off the gas as you're pulling the selector out of gear
2. get back on the gas as you're going to the next gear.
3. apply moderate to light pressure to the shifter, it will pop in as the engine reaches the correct speed for the gear.

Prolly shouldn't do this to decelerate... puts alot of stress on the gears, unless you know the RPM you should be at to down shift, and you can get it just past it enough that it will "float" into gear as you're letting off the gas.

I usually downshift with the clutch, clutch it, keep my foot on the gas, (for acceleration) and put it in the next gear down, then jump off the clutch when the engine is close to the right RPM... saves wear on the clutch and it's better for acceleration.

To decelerate however, I follow ALMOST the same procedure, except instead of keeping my foot on the gas, I just tap it to get it up to the right RPM, then lift off the clutch lightly, as with normal driving, also saves wear on the clutch lining.. Honestly, I"d rather pay more for gas than have to tear my tranny out to replace a clutch.

i don't use that method, i just double clutch going into 3rd. it also allows more time for that spin down thing.

...
To decelerate however, I follow ALMOST the same procedure, except instead of keeping my foot on the gas, I just tap it to get it up to the right RPM, then lift off the clutch lightly, as with normal driving, also saves wear on the clutch lining.. Honestly, I"d rather pay more for gas than have to tear my tranny out to replace a clutch.
isn't this how your suppose to downshift?
'cause my dad taught me the same thing way back in the day. lol, that makes me feel old.

Nah, most ppl that I know just lift off the gas completely, then clutch out of gear, hold the clutch, into next gear, and slip the clutch back in.

As far as I'm concerned, your father is a wise man in teaching you the method that you use. Which, in turn, makes you wise for continuing to use it :)

I wish my dad would have had the time to teach me to drive... I learned from a guy that I was working on race cars with... he took me on a gravel hill in a 4 speed camaro... "Spin the tyres, I smackin you!" "Don' use parkin brake!" "DON' BURN MY CLOOTCH" lol.. (he was dutch.)

I learned from a guy that I was working on race cars with... he took me on a gravel hill in a 4 speed camaro... "Spin the tyres, I smackin you!" "Don' use parkin brake!" "DON' BURN MY CLOOTCH" lol.. (he was dutch.)

lol!

i drive a 89 hatch and my third gear grinds too when i shift.. ive been told by several people its the synchros.... whats double clutching? and is it different or any better then regular shifting im only 17 and i was just taught the push clutch in and hold, shift, and release clutch method

Double clutchin is when you cllutch in, shift to neutral, let the clutch out..match your rpm with the next gear, clutch in, and shift. When you go into neutral and let the clutch out, you lock the trans to the engine, allowing you to control the speed that it spins with the engine, and if your good, you can get it to almost exactly the same rpm that it would be spinning if it were in the next higher or lower gear, that way..they are both spinning the same speed when you clutch in again and shift.

what is that lucas stuff? my buddy has a prelude and his 5th gear synch is grindin a little. should we just go to heavier fluid and try it out?

ahhhhhhhhhhh . what are you guys talking about. j/k i hate reading this much. but i remember somone saying that only ricers have short shifters. and my comment is there is such thing as a short throw short shifter and that is one of the best ones out there. made by b&m. and i love the look of the knob hitting the boot instead of it having 2 inches of ugly metel on your shifter. mine is off ebay but works real well. 11 bucks. cant beat that but back to topic im gring in 3rd also but that is a real common problem with the 90-93 teg trannys i guess. which is what im rockin as of now.

a lot of guys on here suggest using gm synchromesh. Its good stuff. No noise or anything from the tranny. I got 2 liters of it for 15 bucks

I am going to pick some of that stuff up tomorrow, Ill let you know how it goes, my 3rd grinds frequently now. YS1 93 teg tranny.

hey frodo thanx for your input last week about the possibility of my driver's side axle possibly breaking and popping outta the tranny...I thought my tranny was blown for sure...I was ripping around in traffic, went to pass a guy and then the car just lost all drive...turns out the tranny was fine, my driveaxle retaining circlip must have gave out cause after searching all over for an si tranny, and almost crying over the thought of putting a stupid dx tranny in cause I couldn't afford the 2 si trannys I found, I went out looked under the car, and noticed the inner cv spline was just slightly outta the tranny. I took the car apart, replaced my balljoint boots, popped a new circlip on, put in some gm synchromesh fluid and voila! The SI tranny lives on! It was your comment that made me check it out. Funny thing is the axle spline wasn't really far removed from the tranny, I wasn't sure that was the problem at first glance but alas the problem was solved..have never heard of a circlip giving out like that but for the 5 bucks the new one cost I sure made a point to replace it

My drivers side didnt even have a the clip, and worked its way out, it couldnt come completely out but it did managed to cause the car to shudder horribly when downshifting and decellerating, I thought something was broken for sure, took a look under thecar and saw that the splines were only about 1/2" inside the Int. shaft. I was lucky enough to go down to autozone and they had a 91 integra axle that someone had returned for a core earlier that day, they let me pull whatever I wanted off of it for free.

thats cool they let you do that man...I guess you lucked out with just getting that shudder you mentioned...mine broke down in a busy intersection up here in toronto..cost me 150 bucks..all over a dumb circlip

I guess it didnt matter, because a few weeks later I locked up the other side on the highway, almost killed my as I narrowly missed a road sign, a mile marker, and alot of other fun immovable objects at speeds impractical for surviving. So I had to buy a new shaft anyway, just replaced it again a couple weeks ago when I destroyed it after some welds broke, which is why I replaced the whole crossmember and steering rack, I was done with half ass. It costs too much.

ok so recently ive been havin a different problem with my tranny. it doesnt like to go into gear and its usually third gear. it just kinda stops when i shift up. ill prob have to start double clutching now. i usually just cost down the road pushin the clutch in and out til it pops into gear. another problem i have is that i cant watch my rpm's because theres no tach??? i know it got a new motor and so i think it might of been converted?? i dunno. all of this might be fun tho

might wanna get your clutch checked out. Do you have to push the pedal through the floor to get the clutch to engage? First gear is really short and most people have the revs way up when they go into second, and 4th and 5th slide right into gear no problem, and you can pretty much power shift those gears..might be your problem is just an out-of-adjustment clutch

Usually an out of adjustment clutch will cause grinding in all gears... at least on the down shift... but sometimes, I guess it could start in a single gear.. only thing is that most transmissions start losing the synchro's and usually start grinding in third gear. Just my two cents though, definitely adjust your clutch if it needs it.

Viper, thanks for ye olde tach info on the "tach on crack" thread :P


>>
>>Edit - Also check or replace your clootch cable.. may be stretching or worn.

it was usually 3rd gear and ive been told its the synchros now it wont go into gear sometimes so i usually just take my time to shift into 3rd to try to save the tranny as long as possible. it goes in just fine sometimes and others i have to release the clutch and push it back in for it to take. ill just have to try to make it last the longest that i. im hoping to drop a 1.6 in it sometime but i need the money first

props for the swap, but you should still check/ adjust your clutch for now, and try to watch the revs going into gears, just drive "normal" lol

drive "normal"? ur killing me lol... actually i have been taking it easy for for awhile. i have this other problem too where the steering wheel vibrates left and right alot and its worse when im doin 55-60. any clue? i bought a 91 hatch shell for 250 that im hoping will be my "project" but thats not movin to fast either

what do you mean when you say the stearing wheel "vibrates" left and right? does the wheel vibrate when it goes left and right? You could have a combination of many things wrong with your front end....a bad cv joint will cause vibration at low and high speeds and cause the steering to go funny..bad tie rods also can cause the steering to go funny, especially at high speeds.....I could go on and on...ball joints, bent steering components, out of round tires....get that front end checked out!

well what it doesn is at high speeds it pretty much goes left to right. not the car but just like the steering wheel itself and its usually when im goin straight i figure its somethin in the steering column itself or the whole car would do it. ill end up taking it somewhere soon to get it checked

well what it doesn is at high speeds it pretty much goes left to right. not the car but just like the steering wheel itself and its usually when im goin straight i figure its somethin in the steering column itself or the whole car would do it. ill end up taking it somewhere soon to get it checked

sounds like you have the same problem as frodo...bad steering rack...if the steering wheel is moving excessively and the car is going straight with movement in the wheel..it could have something to do with the the linkage between the column and the rack...or front end components..depends on how much the wheel is actually moving left to right, lol

Take it and have it inspected IMO. Should be very easy to spot once the car is off the ground.

sounds like you have the same problem as frodo
HAD, I replaced that bastard child of a steering rack.

Take it and have it inspected IMO. Should be very easy to spot once the car is off the ground.


HAD, I replaced that bastard child of a steering rack.

Sorry frodo, lmao! I know you mentioned replacing the rack already...me bad!