2000 Transmission hard shift

I have the issue with my transmission shifting hard mostly when warm. Tried lube guard. Reading leads me to believe it might be pressure control solenoid for 4T65E transmision. I have seen pictures of the solenoid.

Has anyone actually changed one of these themself? Again from what I read it appears and issue of access from the drivers side of the transmission. Something needs reset or learned afterwards. Very good at working on cars but don't know if I would be missing some tool or just too involved.

Wondering how sure of a fix this is as I would like to get this addressed.

Yes, I have on a 97 Grand Prix GTP with the 4T65E-HD tranny and it is no fun. Also, I installed a TransGo valve body kit.

I would highly recommend not attempting the work DIY. Typically, tranny shops charge around $500 for the labor and part. In the meantime since the Lubegard did not work try something a little better like Seafoam tranny additive to get you by.

I'd recommend getting it scanned with a trans capable scanner and see if DTC error code P1811 is stored. This code would support your suspicion the PCS solenoid is flaky. It does not trigger a SES/CEL light.

My car is doing the same thing. Actually, it used to do it about once a month, usually after starting the car back up after shutting it off for a few minutes, like at a quick coffee pickup. Now, nearly everyday in the afternoon heat and Pittsburgh traffic, it starts its hard shifting. To get it to stop, I need to shut the car off for at least a few minutes. Accompanying this is an increase in temperature, according to the temp. gauge on in the instrument panel. Yesterday I saw it hit the highest yet, almost at the 3/4 line. I have two questions. 1) Is the temperature increase caused by the transmission not sensing the pressure correctly and shifting funny, screwing up the engine or is it the hot engine causing the the tranny to shift funny. 2) Will the hard shifting hurt the transmission? I know I read somewhere that it is bad on the half-shafts and cv joints, but what about the transmission parts, i.e. the valve body or sun gear (expensive repairs)? It doesn't seem to slip when it shifts hard, it just waits till the revs are about 1000 rpm above a normal shift point then immediately shifts, cause plastic trim in the car to creak.

How bad will a dealer hammer me on changing the pressure control solenoid? My dealer is pretty reasonable (they charged my $60 for pan drop and fluid change, $20 for cat. converter check using a backpressure test), so I'm assuming they'll be on the lower pricing side.

How bad will a dealer hammer me on changing the pressure control solenoid? My dealer is pretty reasonable (they charged my $60 for pan drop and fluid change, $20 for cat. converter check using a backpressure test), so I'm assuming they'll be on the lower pricing side.

Not sure but I'm checking around myself. I have seen these solenoids on ebay. Price isn't all that bad. Too bad it is so hard to change. By the looks of things its more work getting to it then actually changing it.

The hard shifts can be good for it. I try to sense a shift point and ease of the gas. Temperature does seem to be a key in it acting up. My does and it is odd in that it can start doing it and if I shut it off it and wait a few minutes and then start out again it might just go away for awhile.

The best price I've ever seen a GM dealer charge for a PCS job was around $800.

I would exercise caution getting any solenoid off of EBay or an aftermarket. GM revised the PCS solenoid and implemented it in the 2002 model year on GM cars with the 4T65E, therefore I would get the improved one from the dealer or an AC Delco Authorized Parts Dealer.

The harsh shifting is caused by the PCS not properly controlling line pressure which will vary with heat and other conditions. I worked with a Regal owner in the past who had PCS problems around 70K miles and went all the way to 120K miles before finally replacing it. When it acted up he would just pull over and turn the ignition off for a few minutes and then go about his merry way.

[QUOTE=bnaylor]I would exercise caution getting any solenoid off of EBay or an aftermarket.
QUOTE]

I agree. Just stated that I saw some on ebay and just noted the price. I read something about GM revising the solenoid in later years but would it be backwards compatable. If you have the work done one would assume a GM dealer would know about putting the best replacement in.

I agree. Just stated that I saw some on ebay and just noted the price. I read something about GM revising the solenoid in later years but would it be backwards compatable. If you have the work done one would assume a GM dealer would know about putting the best replacement in.

From what I understand it is compatible. Of course, the Intrigue never saw use of it due to 2002 being the last year of production. The old part number is 10478146, new is 24225825. Although it was improved in 2002, it was first introduced on 2003 and up GM cars with that tranny with GM RPO codes MN3, M15 and MN7. It always best to check with the dealer and see what they say.

From what I understand it is compatible. Of course, the Intrigue never saw use of it due to 2002 being the last year of production. The old part number is 10478146, new is 24225825. Although it was improved in 2002, it was first introduced on 2003 and up GM cars with that tranny with GM RPO codes MN3, M15 and MN7. It always best to check with the dealer and see what they say.

Those are the part numbers I have written down. Thanks for confirming. Wondering, do you have a brief discription on what needs to be done to access the solenoid? I think it is on the drivers side of transmission. Does the engine and transmission need to be lower a bit and access is via the right front tire wheel well. Friend of mine thought there was a plate on side of transmission that allows access.

Those are the part numbers I have written down. Thanks for confirming. Wondering, do you have a brief discription on what needs to be done to access the solenoid? I think it is on the drivers side of transmission. Does the engine and transmission need to be lower a bit and access is via the right front tire wheel well. Friend of mine thought there was a plate on side of transmission that allows access.

Checkout the thread below. One of the regulars, Panzer Dragoon posted some info at his post #11 to give you an idea. Basically, an engine hoist is required to support the engine/tranny. Car has to be raised up.Then the subframe is loosened up and the engine/tranny dropped with it after removal of a bunch of stuff like the axle shaft, etc. A very tedious procedure. What limits side cover removal is the lack of working space in the engine compartment.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=527512&page=2

Checkout the thread below. One of the regulars, Panzer Dragoon posted some info at his post #11 to give you an idea. Basically, an engine hoist is required to support the engine/tranny. Car has to be raised up.Then the subframe is loosened up and the engine/tranny dropped with it after removal of a bunch of stuff like the axle shaft, etc. A very tedious procedure. What limits side cover removal is the lack of working space in the engine compartment.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=527512&page=2

Great link. Thanks. Saved it. Person above said to maybe have transmision scan for code P1811. The diagram in that link show 2 shift solenoids and the PCS. Is this hard shift issue just related to the PSC and you do not need to replace the other 2? After the install is there a relearn or reset process for the new solenoid?

Craig

Great link. Thanks. Saved it. Person above said to maybe have transmision scan for code P1811. The diagram in that link show 2 shift solenoids and the PCS. Is this hard shift issue just related to the PSC and you do not need to replace the other 2? After the install is there a relearn or reset process for the new solenoid?

Craig

You're welcome. If P1811 shows up on a scan then the PCS is the most likely cause and it is the subject of a GM TSB that has been out for quite a few years now which states replace the PCS solenoid.

Normally it is just the PCS solenoid but it probably would not hurt to replace the 1-2, 2-3 upshift solenoids and the TCC-PWM solenoid. They are located right on the valve body mostly on the left hand side. The 2-3 is located on the right hand side.

After any major tranny work like a rebuild or valve body work the PCM should be reset to clear out the adaptive shift information stored and allow it to relearn. Good luck!

those shift solenoids are 1-2 3-4 and 2-3.

So if your crappy shifts are only 1-2 and 3-4 you know it's the one solenoid if it's a 2-3 shift it's the other. (hopefully)

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/alto_2.htm
this place sells reamers, sleeves, and the valves for the 4T65e

The warranty on GM rebuilt trannies are 3yr or 100k miles (not bad).

those shift solenoids are 1-2 3-4 and 2-3.

So if your crappy shifts are only 1-2 and 3-4 you know it's the one solenoid if it's a 2-3 shift it's the other. (hopefully)


Maybe this will be less confusing. The shift solenoids work together in the form of a matrix or logic gate depending on where the transmission range switch is set. And you can add the 3-4 to the 1-2 shift solenoid for labeling purposes if you'd like. But this should be self explanatory and less confusing on how the solenoids work.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/atsg.jpg

that makes more sense, but now it's more confusing which one is bad. =All the more reason for a rebuild if you need to swap out one of the solenoids.

A good chart to have. I'm just thankful I don't have tranny problems yet.

The new PCS are NOT backwards compatible according to all my info. A bad PCS with cause harsh shifts when hot or even shudders and slide bang shifts. I have seen people drive them too long and burn up clutches or break the 2nd drum. My advice would be to get it fixed because its only going to get worse. Please don't get an aftermarket solenoid and do your self a favor and replace the TCC PWM solenoid also.

The new PCS are NOT backwards compatible according to all my info. A bad PCS with cause harsh shifts when hot or even shudders and slide bang shifts. I have seen people drive them too long and burn up clutches or break the 2nd drum. My advice would be to get it fixed because its only going to get worse. Please don't get an aftermarket solenoid and do your self a favor and replace the TCC PWM solenoid also.

Thanks for responding to my PM and weighing in Troy. I was not sure about the compatibility issue on the PCS solenoid but now we know for sure.

In case you all do not know Troy is a professional tranny tech and specializes in GM and other make trannies. Also, he earned the Advisor Title of "GM Tranny Advisor".

All great information. I added some of the seafoam transmission additive yesterday. Noticed a difference just today but it feels like the issue is still there just not as pronounced.

When changing transmission filter. Would it be a good idea to put in a drain plug on the pan. My F250 has a drain plug and I get out about 7 quarts. Maybe twice a year since it is so easy I just pull the plug and then add back in what I got out. Not as good as getting it serviced but it keep introducing new fluid. Pretty easy with the drain plug.

Also, would there have been any computer/transmission updates for these cars? I just had the PCM flashed to lastest rev on my F250. If there is would there be a sticker telling you the version and a chart somewhere with latest for that year.

Craig

Also, would there have been any computer/transmission updates for these cars? I just had the PCM flashed to lastest rev on my F250. If there is would there be a sticker telling you the version and a chart somewhere with latest for that year.


http://tis2web.service.gm.com/tis2web

I went to that site and got this.

12202244 12201888 N/A - Calibration to correct P1441 from setting on a hot restart.

9390234 9390172 N/A - Control module calibration

Is this a list of all updates that ever came out for this VINs computer or a history of what has been applied to date to this VIN? For my Ford they just applied one update to get all patches to latest rev. Have never had a GM update done. Sort of going in how would one know an update had been applied? Does GM service place a sticker somewhere when an update is done.

Craig

I went to that site and got this.

12202244 12201888 N/A - Calibration to correct P1441 from setting on a hot restart.

9390234 9390172 N/A - Control module calibration

Is this a list of all updates that ever came out for this VINs computer or a history of what has been applied to date to this VIN? For my Ford they just applied one update to get all patches to latest rev. Have never had a GM update done. Sort of going in how would one know an update had been applied? Does GM service place a sticker somewhere when an update is done.

Craig

The GM dealer uses a Tech II machine to verify PCM data to include revision info.

BTW - There is no PCM revision or reflash procedure available that will resolve a PCS issue.

Just wondering about updates. I knew the PCS issue was a physical problem and I need to deal with it.

Based on that report would you consider having the computer flashed with those updates or if I'm not having any burning issues don't worry about it.

Also, wonder what people might thing about adding a drain plug to the tranny pan.

I had my 2000 into a GM dealer my brother works for on Friday. They scanned and came up with the P1811 code. I have it scheduled tomorrow for the PCS replacement.

Sounds good. Please keep us posted and how it turns out. Cost figure would be helpful too. Good luck.

Sounds good. Please keep us posted and how it turns out. Cost figure would be helpful too. Good luck.

Dropped car off night before. Called my brother at noon next day and he said it was done already. Shifts smooth as glass now. They said they had to align front end cause of the suspension parts they had to remove. Was a bit tense when I went to pay the bill. Total was $262 dollars and included the scan from the Friday before. I was very pleased with the cost and end results. Wish I would have done this 6 months ago.

Craig

at $262 you did about as good as you could.

Get a pint of that LubeGuard from Napa ~$12. Change the tranny fluid and filter every 30-50k miles (take off the tranny pan and clean it) to keep the grit from circulating in that tranny.

Same for the (especially for the 3.5L) Intrigue engine. Change the oil and oil filter every 3-5K miles. I use Mobile1 (synthetic), I pay more initially, but it pays for itself over the long-term. Especially in the winter, synthetic oil is a dream. The 3.5L engine is a fine winter starter also = starts fine on the regular stuff (oil) also.