Alignment Specs

Okay guys, I just got my car aligned but don't know if the shop did a good job or not since I don't understand the print out that they gave me. They said it's a bit off because my car is lowered but is okay but I don't know if it's the truth or they just did a poor job at it and are just trying to cover themselves. Hopefully you guys can let me know:

FRONT: LEFT

Camber:
Actual: -0.7, Before: -1.4, Specified Range: -0.5 0.5
Caster:
Actual: 4.1, Before: 4.1, Specified Range: 3.4 4.4
Toe:
Actual: 0.02, Before: 0.64, Specified Range: -0.12 0.12
SAI:
Actual: 14.3, Before: 14.9
Included Angle:
Actual: 13.6, Before: 13.6
Turning Angle Diff:


FRONT: RIGHT

Camber:
Actual: -0.5, Before: -0.6, Specified Range: -0.5 0.5
Caster:
Actual: 4.7, Before: 4.7, Specified Range: 3.4 4.4
Toe:
Actual: -0.01, Before: 0.57, Specified Range: -0.12 0.12
SAI:
Actual: 15.1, Before: 15.2
Included Angle:
Actual: 14.6, Before: 14.6
Turning Angle Diff:


FRONT

Cross Camber:
Actual: -0.2, Before: -0.8
Cross Caster:
Actual: -0.6, Before: -0.6
Cross SAI:
Actual: -0.9, Before: -0.2
Total Toe:
Actual: 0.02, Before: 1.21, Specified Range: -0.24 0.24
Cross Turn Diff:


REAR: LEFT

Camber:
Actual: -0.9, Before: -0.6, Specified Range: -0.5 0.5
Toe:
Actual: -0.04, Before: 0.20, Specified Range: -0.08 0.12

REAR: RIGHT
Camber:
Actual: -0.4, Before: -0.6, Specified Range: -0.5 0.5
Toe:
Actual: -0.34, Before: 0.16, Specified Range: -0.08 0.12


REAR
Cross Camber:
Actual: -0.5, Before: 0.0, Specified Range: -0.3 0.3
Total Toe:
Actual: -0.38, Before: 0.36, Specified Range: -0.16 0.24
Thrust Angle:
Actual: 0.15, Before: 0.02

Can someone interperet this for me please!?! Thanks a lot!

-Dangit, I can't get the actual post to look like table that I set it up as...ugh...

What do you need to know exactly?

They looks like they did a decent job... Little bit of negaive camber and rears have a little bit of toe in... Are you asking what the terms mean?

http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

Well, I was hoping that someone could tell me if the job they did was good or not!?! Because I know that it's not going to be in perfect spec because my car's lowered and I don't have the camber kits but I know that if a shop knows what they're doing and do a good job then they could get pretty close and it will be okay for me to drive on it. And yeah, I don't know how to read the numbers and everything so when the guy was explaining it to me it just went over my head.

But yeah....so 2old, do these specs look good enough to drive on? Or do I need to go back to the shop and have them fix it?

Well the only think that makes me wonder is why the put so much toe in the rear right and why they put more negative camber on the rear left then what was on before...

That said, it won't affect drivability... The differences could be cause but slack tolerances in the springs (or installation) when you lowered your car, worn bushings, etc.

Check the link I attached to my last reply... It will explain camber, caster and toe... I am actually not sure why they included caster, SAI, etc. in the report since the alignment shop would not be able to adjust those measurements (it's of interest only if you are making major suspension mods).

(Edit: don't freak out that I am asking why those numbers seem to be out... I am just interested in the shops explanation... There could be a dozen perfectly valid reasons why it ended up the way it did)

before my car was lowered, i added front and rear sway bars. then had the car aligned. they were able to get it all back into spec except one wheel was about 0.2 degrees out of spec from camber. that's the best they could do, and they said it was a bitch to work on. didn't affect drivability.

what they told me, and from my understanding of our cars, the only adjustments that can be made are camber and toe. i know we cannot adjust for caster. not sure about SAI or included angle, but i don't wanna re-read all that info right now.

but i'm with 2old. if your camber was 0.0 before, then why did the put it at -0.5? perhaps to account for the other wheel that was at around that value? not sure, just a miniscule query.

you know, I've never looked at pics of the 3/s's camber system but if it's anything like the z's it shouldn't be too bad to adjust. In the rear subframe, there's the inner and outer camber, in which on the inner, the bolt has a cam so that it can be moved up or down; what I'm doing to fix my z's camber is this; tightening the cam all the way up and than if need be, grind a lil' more out of the hole, so that I can move the bolt up and the rear tires don't squat at an angle...

With that being said, I think the job looks like a decent one, but time will tell; i.e. if your tires start wearing bald unevenly, etc...

one more thing, where's the pics of the blue lowered SL??

your numbers dont look that bad. it should be a simple job.

Hey, thanks for the replies guys. Since you guys say that it's okay then I'll just leave it as is for now. I have 6 months to bring it back for a new alignment check or whatever anyways so if there's something noticeable during the meantime then that's what I'll do. Thanks a lot...I really appreciate the replies.

Rocker, my sister's camera is still acting stupid so I can't get the pictures over. :( The car looks the same though since only the shocks were changed.

In my opinion, they did a shitty job. I do alignments everyday, and i've done them on our cars. Looks like they made the rear worse, and didn't attempt much on the front.

It's a piece of cake to make the adjustments that they neglected to make.

Rear camber they made further out of spec than it was on the left side, and on the right it's barely in spec so it's definitely possible to get it in spec with how much you have it lowered, so they didn't touch that.

Rear toe it looks like they adjusted, but didn't really center it, could have been done better, but it's in spec.

Front camber it looks like they adjusted on the left and didn't touch on the right. The left isn't in spec and since the right side is, it's possible for the left to be in spec too. So they messed that up.

Front toe (the simplest thing to adjust, what a lot of mechanics will do to take the easy way out (it straightens the steering wheel so you think you're alignment is good) looks like the only thing they adjusted correctly.

I would take it back and tell them to do the job right and adjust all the angles. And don't let them tell you they`re not adjustable either, because they all are, except front caster.

another question I have is this; I thought you got your car lowered right??? From what I know, shocks don't determine the ride height, so if you put in new shocks, you shouldn't have to worry about your car having alignment problems.

In my opinion, they did a shitty job. I do alignments everyday, and i've done them on our cars. Looks like they made the rear worse, and didn't attempt much on the front.

It's a piece of cake to make the adjustments that they neglected to make.

Rear camber they made further out of spec than it was on the left side, and on the right it's barely in spec so it's definitely possible to get it in spec with how much you have it lowered, so they didn't touch that.

Rear toe it looks like they adjusted, but didn't really center it, could have been done better, but it's in spec.

Front camber it looks like they adjusted on the left and didn't touch on the right. The left isn't in spec and since the right side is, it's possible for the left to be in spec too. So they messed that up.

Front toe (the simplest thing to adjust, what a lot of mechanics will do to take the easy way out (it straightens the steering wheel so you think you're alignment is good) looks like the only thing they adjusted correctly.

I would take it back and tell them to do the job right and adjust all the angles. And don't let them tell you they`re not adjustable either, because they all are, except front caster.


Now that did not sound good at all... The guy that I spoke with when I went to pick up my car said that the only way to get everything in perfect spec is if I got the camber kit. I understood that much and just assumed everything was okay since he said it was. I didn't know it could have been better!?! :uhoh: Ugh...this is gonna suck...wish I knew more about this stuff. Even after reading through the link 2old gave I feel like there's more to it!?!

Rocker, my car had Eibach springs on it already when I bought her from the other guy. The springs plus the ECS shock setup was just crappy since it's been 12 years with over 73k on it. So I just changed out the shocks but during the process, I had to take off bolts that messed up my alignment even if I marked it.

^alot of times, if the car is lowered, you do need to fix the camber, which on z's (not sure if it's the same with 3s's) involves drilling a hole in the outer camber to relocate the bolt. What I found out from looking at my z, is that the inner camber bolt is pretty much adjustable, and if I need to adjust it even more, I can just grind a lil' more out of the hole...

Good luck man...

Now that did not sound good at all... The guy that I spoke with when I went to pick up my car said that the only way to get everything in perfect spec is if I got the camber kit. I understood that much and just assumed everything was okay since he said it was. I didn't know it could have been better!?! :uhoh: Ugh...this is gonna suck...wish I knew more about this stuff. Even after reading through the link 2old gave I feel like there's more to it!?!


It's not that bad... I have seen cars been aligned to spec on the lift just to get out of spec when the car is moved because the age of the car (slack develops in the ball joints, bushings, etc.) so don't freak out.

From a basic standpoint it the question boils down to why the left and right specs aren't exactly the same... If could be that someone hit the curb hard and bend something out of spec, something worn or Twisted could be right and it's just a bad job.

Personally I think the "specified range" is given is some sort of generic template and not specific to our cars because there is no way our cars should allow a positive camber on the front wheels (it says +- 0.50 which intuativily sounds wrong) so I would not say they screwed up the alignment.

If it really bugs you go back and talk to the shop... The camber adjustments pretty much bottom out on the rear with a +1.5" lowering but the question should focus on why the left/right numbers are not the same and not why it's not within spec (specifically I would be asking about the toe).

No reason to be confrontational unless the shop doesn't not want to talk about their work. If they don't want to spend the time to answer some simple question or explain how the suspension works to someone that is interested, it's time to take your business elsewhere.

(edit: okay I checked and the spec it +-0.50 on the camber... Personally I would prefer - over + but if you are aiming for 0 what are you going to do...)

Okay umm... in theory, what the actual settings should be is 0, right? For example, for the Front Toe setting, the specified range is -0.12 to 0.12 so if the actual was 0.00 then that would be ideal? However, since there is the range that is given, shops would just adjust the settings enough so that it falls within the specified range and just consider it "aligned" (for example 0.02 in my case)?

Also, I don't get why there are Front Left/Right settings as well as the "Front" setting. Is the front setting kind of like a total between the left and right and they're supposed to be balanced or something (if that made any sense)?

Thanks for all the help guys.

One more thing...it's funny how 2old mentioned twice for me not to freak out about the specs. Vert mentioned something similar before too. Hehe I guess it's pretty obvious that since I love my car so much, I want everything to be "perfect" and when it's not then I worry (a lot!!!) about it and freak out if I don't know if it's a big deal or not. Hehe Thanks understanding. :)

It's not that bad... I have seen cars been aligned to spec on the lift just to get out of spec when the car is moved because the age of the car (slack develops in the ball joints, bushings, etc.) so don't freak out.



Any susp./steering part that has play should be replaced before the alignment, so that it won't be an issue.

Front is the alignment of the front wheels (caster/camber/toe), and rear is the alignment of the rear wheels (camber/toe).

Okay umm... in theory, what the actual settings should be is 0, right? For example, for the Front Toe setting, the specified range is -0.12 to 0.12 so if the actual was 0.00 then that would be ideal? However, since there is the range that is given, shops would just adjust the settings enough so that it falls within the specified range and just consider it "aligned" (for example 0.02 in my case)?

Also, I don't get why there are Front Left/Right settings as well as the "Front" setting. Is the front setting kind of like a total between the left and right and they're supposed to be balanced or something (if that made any sense)?


Yep, that is pretty much it... You also have to remember that even out of the factory cars are not perfectly aligned so the varience is not an "opt out" for the mechanics, but also what was allowed to roll off the factory floor and to be sold to you new.

The left/right front is the independent measurements of the front left and right wheels compared to the chassis and the "front" is the measurement of the front wheels relative to each other (or a consolidated view on the numbers).

Now this is strickly my opinion, so don't take this as gospel... But aligning a car to 0.05 of a degree of the theoretical setting optimal setting is a little like putting a laser cut edge on an ax and then using it to chop a tree down... You MIGHT notice it if you were racing on a track, but public roads are usually pretty worn with crowns, ruts, potholes, bumps, etc... Some big enough to knock your alignment off anyways, and that it makes a much bigger difference to drivability then a fraction of a degree off your alignment.

The only thing it might save you on is tires... But personally I need a little negative camber anyways because I take corners too hard and wear out outer edge of my tire faster then the inner edge, so it's up to personal preference/experimentation.