New to the import scene

Ok here the deal i originaly bought a 88 Civic Hatch to use as a work car, since my Mustang drank way to much gas. Now i have gotten to where i want to start working my civic to make it out run all my stang buddy's. Problem is that i have no clue what i have or where to start. all i know is that it's a 1.5L 5 spd. and it's a hatch back. Can any of you all help me out?

Welcome. I am nw to the 4th generations but keep coming to this board and reading peoples post and ask questions and you will learn a lot!

hey welcome to the forum

assuming you have alot of money, you could start with an intake and exhaust. but if you want to spank your stang friends then you have to go motor swap, there are alot of different ways to approach this. from what ive heard the b16a1 engine into our 4th gen will lose to a stang. so if you decide to get a b16a1 engine swap, it will probably cost around 3 grand for the full swap at a shop, then you need some kind of forced induction like turbo supercharger or nos. you can also go b18a1 which may cost you around the same price depending on the shop doing it, again to beat a stang you would need to go forced induction. you can also go b18c1 which would probably cost around 5 grand, now that motor maybe up and up wiht the stang, i dont really know. then there lsvtec which is the b18a1 bottom end with a b16a1 head, you get the torque of the b18a1 and the topend of the b16a1, i think this will beat a stang, swap probably cost around $5000 with the ls vtec conversion, faster than a gsr. also there the crvtec, which uses a crv motor bottom end wiht a b16a1 head, which has more torque and hp then a ls vtec. but from i hear the lsvtec and crvtec are not long lasting motors

hello :wave: welcome!

there are a lot of different year mustang and a lot of different mods. so to give us a better idea of what swap is right for you, could you please tell us what time you'd like to run the 1/4 mile?

b16 is dohc vtec and has 160 hp. i personally think the turbo kit for the b16 is too expensive (just a basic kit you can only run 5psi)

the d16y8/d16z6 is sohc vtec and has 127 hp. with these engines there is a way to build a turbo set up for $1500-2000 (complete kit you can run 10+ psi)

b16 owners don't like to hear about sohc vtecs that can spank them, this is why i went with a d16y8 (no turbo, yet ) :evillaugh

ami

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi


b16 owners don't like to hear about sohc vtecs that can spank them, this is why i went with a d16y8 (no turbo, yet ) :evillaugh

ami

Yeh and your not one of them!:D ;)

Well theres lots of ways to beat mustangs. NO U DON'T HAVE TO GO FORCED INDUCTION OR STUPID NOS TO BEAT THEM. You can have an all motor b16 or any othe b-series to beat them also. Turbo this turbo that..blah blah blah.Thats all ppl can think of when they want to go fast. Like me i'm goin all motor. This is my feature set up...b16a head with gsr block. Meaning that i'm gonna put 11:5:1 comp pistons with aftermarket rods. Stroker kit, port and polish head with the WHOLE skunk2 valvetrain set up. Upgrading my fuel of coure and my ignition. That set up should get me well into low 12's. Yes you can go forced induction if you want. Either way it doesn't matter, both are good set ups but its up to u of what you want to do. The reason i said b16a is because its the cheapest v-tec b-series. B18c ( gsr motor ) cost about 2800-3200 and b18c5 (type r motor) cost about 5 grand. The cheapest b-series engine is the non v-tec b18a ( LS motor). I would go with that to go force induction but not always neccessary.:)

The stang are manly 94-01 3.8 V6's. Most are super charged, a couple turbo's and a 4.4 stroker V6. The one i want to beat i dont think i will. He is running 14PSI on a custome twin turbo .:eek:

In the 1/4 i would like to run a Mid to Low 12. If possible to keep it streetable.

Originally posted by Fireforge79
The stang are manly 94-01 3.8 V6's. Most are super charged, a couple turbo's and a 4.4 stroker V6. The one i want to beat i dont think i will. He is running 14PSI on a custome twin turbo .:eek:

In the 1/4 i would like to run a Mid to Low 12. If possible to keep it streetable.

Well that set up that i mentioned is streetable and can get you into 12's. Turbo is also streetable.

Hay I just wanna say welcome :) you will love this place :)

Welcome to the scene if you need any help with anything go to www.hircc.com and we will help you

Originally posted by mellowboy


Yeh and your not one of them!:D ;)

LMAO, see what i mean...there is the 1st b16 owner to say something. that's okay mellowboy...just keep on thinking i haven't started on that project ;)

Fireforge79, what is your budget like?

i got my d16y8 from a '00 civic ex with only 12,000 mi. (that is newborn baby for a honda) for $500. another $130 for ecu and $150 for wiring harness. it drops right in, no mods needed.

i am a huge d series block fan. the b16 requires tranny, axels, motor mounts, shift linkage, and a bunch of other bs....ends up costing like $1800+...and it's doesn't drop right in, requires welding.

parts for the b16 (aftermarket/performance) cost more. and if you get a japanese b16 it is suggested you rebuild it because a lot of them have been sitting and the seals go bad.

ami

Originally posted by mellowboy
You can have an all motor b16 or any othe b-series to beat them also. Turbo this turbo that..blah blah blah.Thats all ppl can think of when they want to go fast.

EXACTLY why i don't go b16. everybody and their mom has it. you have it backwards. there are 50 million b16 civic's out there...all following the b series hype. there are only a handfull of turbo civic's...and they are only recently starting to pop up thanks to the t25 set-up.

you go to the track and see a 4th gen smoking everything you expect to see a b16 under the hood. yawn. pop the hood and see only a sohc vtec and that is more impressive.

i suppose i like to take my own trail rather than follow the leader...

yeah my friends has a 93 cx, which means its lighter than our 4th gens with a sohc vtec in it, with the skunk 2 stage 1 cam,i/h/e. and he raced a 4th gen b16a. and sorry to say to you sohc vtec fans, my friend got spanked.


k to you all motor guys out there. say you get a gsr, then up the comp ratio to 12 to go all motor, well now you just got a type r motor, except without the radical cams. contrary to popluar belief, upping your comp ratio 1 point will not add that much power look at these figures

b16a1 10:2 160hp ok so with the b16as you get a 10hp increase over
b16a2 10:4 170hp .2 points

b18c1 10:1 170hp ok so with the gsr you get 10hp increase in .5 points
b18c1 10:6 180hp

b18c5 10:6 195hp ok wiht the type r you get 5 hp over .5 points
b18c5 11:1 200hp

ok so say you setup your gsr motor with 11.5:1 ratio, now your probably around 190hp which is still only mid 14s to low 14s. now ssay you get your valve train in, which will probably add around 40hp. so now your at 230hp which will probably get you to the low 13s. dont forget since you said you using a b16a1 head on teh gsr its gonna lower your comp ratio about .2 points. as you increase your comp ratio the amount of hp youll get will go down from each increase in comp ratio
my friend with a integra ls runs a 14.0 with his car. hes gots the stock motor i/h/e, clutch, lsd, slicks and runs a 75 shot. so hes got 140hp plus 75 hp which is 215hp but his car is heavier so i put him in the mid 13 if his motor was inside a 4th gen hatch. the only problem with all motor is taht you cant really go hihger than 12:1 comp ratio unless you plan on running racing fuel. so right there you hit a wall, and you probably will only be at about 250 hp which will be 12s i think but even a 12:1 its not really that streetable. with a turbo you can go up to 16psi on pump gas and thats already into the 300 plus hp

in conclusion, you can get a gsr to go 12s all motor and that probably high 12s, but then you hit the wall there and you cant go any faster. plus with all motor you motor will always be under high stress but with a turbo if you crusing down the road at 4 grand then you not at full boost so there not that much wear on the engine because of turbo lag

Originally posted by civickiller
yeah my friends has a 93 cx, which means its lighter than our 4th gens with a sohc vtec in it, with the skunk 2 stage 1 cam,i/h/e. and he raced a 4th gen b16a. and sorry to say to you sohc vtec fans, my friend got spanked.



ummm, i should hope a b16 spanks a sohc vtec with only i/h/e. 130 hp vs 160 hp. key word is sohc vtec turbo. and don't say...then turbo the b16. because then you missed the whole point. the turbo kit for a b16 costs more than the b16 swap it's self.

z6/y8 $500
ecu $130
wiring $150 (or do it yourself for free)
turbo $1500-2000 (complete with intercooler and all parts to run 10-20psi)
_________________

b16 swap $1800
turbo (basic kit...run 5 psi) $2500-3000

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi


turbo $1500-2000 (complete with intercooler and all parts to run 10-20psi)


I'm another loyal D-series fan too. Hopefully I'll have a d16z6 in my rex by the end of the year. My question is, where do you get a turbo setup for so cheap? Is it a junkyard turbo kit, or an actual kit?

dropshop. you can either get the parts list and find a bunch of it yourself and then dropshop will weld up the intercooler and a few other custom parts (adapter plate and so on). that is the $1500 route. or you can just ask him to build you the kit and he'll sell it all to you for $2000. he has been putting together junkyard "kits"

Here's the skinny, i will not be starting the project till like Dec. Nomatter which one i choose to do. One think i can say is ill have about $7K in project money, if i was wanting to do a swap what is the easiest, wha swap will have the biggest aftermarket, and will be able to get me into the 11 sec catagory (I have changed my mind about mid - low 12's it's just to slow.) And you guys have been a lot of help.

Oh yeah can any one tell me what would have to be changed to fit a CRX body kit onto a 88hatch. If it's even possible. the side skirts im not to worried aboutjust the bumpers.

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi


i am a huge d series block fan. the b16 requires tranny, axels, motor mounts, shift linkage, and a bunch of other bs....ends up costing like $1800+...and it's doesn't drop right in, requires welding.

parts for the b16 (aftermarket/performance) cost more. and if you get a japanese b16 it is suggested you rebuild it because a lot of them have been sitting and the seals go bad.

ami

ok i only spend 1600 on my whole swap. 1800 plus?? Well yeh it'll end up that way if you lose all your bolts and accessories. It does not require welding. So i don't know where you got your info from but i can tell you it doesn't require welding. Its true if you get a JDM b16 and sometimes you do have to rebuild it. Hey alot of ppl don't mind doin this so when they rebuild it they rebuild it with aftermarket parts. Alot ppl dont care if it needs to be rebuild as long as they get there hands on one.:)

Originally posted by civickiller
yeah my friends has a 93 cx, which means its lighter than our 4th gens with a sohc vtec in it, with the skunk 2 stage 1 cam,i/h/e. and he raced a 4th gen b16a. and sorry to say to you sohc vtec fans, my friend got spanked.




ok so say you setup your gsr motor with 11.5:1 ratio, now your probably around 190hp which is still only mid 14s to low 14s. now ssay you get your valve train in, which will probably add around 40hp. so now your at 230hp which will probably get you to the low 13s. dont forget since you said you using a b16a1 head on teh gsr its gonna lower your comp ratio about .2 points. as you increase your comp ratio the amount of hp youll get will go down from each increase in comp ratio
my friend with a integra ls runs a 14.0 with his car. hes gots the stock motor i/h/e, clutch, lsd, slicks and runs a 75 shot. so hes got 140hp plus 75 hp which is 215hp but his car is heavier so i put him in the mid 13 if his motor was inside a 4th gen hatch. the only problem with all motor is taht you cant really go hihger than 12:1 comp ratio unless you plan on running racing fuel. so right there you hit a wall, and you probably will only be at about 250 hp which will be 12s i think but even a 12:1 its not really that streetable. with a turbo you can go up to 16psi on pump gas and thats already into the 300 plus hp



Ok it doesn't have to be a GSR to go 12's all motor. IT can be a b16 with a stroker kit!:) We all know that bumping up the compression is not gonna add crazy hp. 12:1 on pump gas? I don't think so. I know the highest you can go is 11:5 on pump gas? Either way thats why i'm getting that bare gsr block. SO i can replace aftermarket parts.

Originally posted by Fireforge79

Oh yeah can any one tell me what would have to be changed to fit a CRX body kit onto a 88hatch. If it's even possible. the side skirts im not to worried aboutjust the bumpers.

No its not gonna fit.The hatchback front bumper has a valance piece and the crx doesn't. I guess u can try to fit it but you might have to shave it to make it fit rite.

Originally posted by mellowboy


ok i only spend 1600 on my whole swap. 1800 plus?? Well yeh it'll end up that way if you lose all your bolts and accessories. It does not require welding. So i don't know where you got your info from but i can tell you it doesn't require welding. Its true if you get a JDM b16 and sometimes you do have to rebuild it. Hey alot of ppl don't mind doin this so when they rebuild it they rebuild it with aftermarket parts. Alot ppl dont care if it needs to be rebuild as long as they get there hands on one.:)

:eek: oh damn, i said $1800 instead of $1600 :rolleyes: whatever guy. so you got a blue light special. the avg. b16 swap goes for $1800-$2000. and not sometimes you have to rebuild it...it is reccomended everytime...because it has been sitting. the seals go bad. same thing with the ZC.

this is exactly why i can't stand everybody cramming the b16 down the new people throats. oh yea...it's only $1600...compared to $800 swap, $1600 is cheap? "you only need to rebuild sometimes"....compared to a USDM engine that you don't even have to consider rebuilding. b16 is a custom swap (oh it isn't? then why do you need mounts, tranny, linkage, ecu and all the other b.s.). the d series drops right in...you can even use the stock tranny, ecu, and motor mounts.

so lets see...someone is looking for a simple cheap swap that can go turbo and still have money left for rims and bodykit. okay, lets suggest the $1600 b16 + $2500 5 psi turbo (good luck finding it that cheap).

oh but i'm just a stupid girl because i only spent $780 on my swap...i'm spending $1500 on my 10-20 psi turbo. man, life will sure suck.

ps. battle of the imports winner '95 was a 88 Civic. ran 12.31 @ 112mph on a d15b2 turbo engine. so techincally...you don't even need an engine swap!

YEA!!! SOCK IT TO HIM AMI.......lol

Geez Ami, are you causing trouble again??!!!! :D

I thought I was the obnoxious one on the forums - time to hand over the crown I think. :p

Stop picking on the kiddies please, I'm running out of tissues for them :devil:

BTW - what's a B16A swap? Some of us don't need it :smoka:

Sorry - just had to throw that in - it's not your fault you guys drive on the wrong side of the road and can't get decent imports :p

/me gets out asbestos underwear ;)

Um you are under estimating the price of an actual b16a swap.. Cheapest I have seen on the west cost (internet) is $2800. Mine will cost $4300.. Though I might go Sohc vtec turbo :)

Originally posted by Setanta
[B]Geez Ami, are you causing trouble again??!!!! :D

I thought I was the obnoxious one on the forums - time to hand over the crown I think. :p



is that why we agree :argue: to disagree so well?

here is my thing. someone comes to the boards and everybody suggests the b16 or zc...only because they have been the trend for the last 3-4 years. i remember i heard marked001 talking about the sohc vtec right before the "mini-me" hype started. i checked out some links he posted and it interested me. i didn't need a swap at the time so i just filed the info in my brain as a possibility. time came i needed an engine, i did a little more researching and found the sohc vtec to be the all around best swap for the price...and other reasons i mentioned earlier.

there is no time better than now to pick up a y8. 96-00 civic owners do swaps all the time. it's hard not to giggle when i say the engine now has 13,000 miles. that engine only sat in the '00 civic 1 year. :ylsuper

i have seriously been considering leaving the Si with the y8 the way it is and swapping (4 door LX) "hoopty whoop's" AT for MT and then turbo my old a6 i stuck in it. turbo sohc non vtec, proven a 12 sec, now, that will really piss people off :hehe:

yes ami but a 12 second NA sohc non-vtec hasn't been proven.... DONT TAKE MY IDEA!

lol - now if I was going to build a 12 second car, I wouldn't care if it was NA or forced induction ;) I don't buy into the idea that it's more honourable to build a fast NA engine - more expensive - yes but not a car with more cred. :devil:

the only problem i got with the sohc vtec is that it will require more boost to equal a turboed b16. becuase you can turbo a b16 @ 16psi but to get the same hp out of the sohc vtec then you probably gotta raise it to like 18-20 psi which is pretty dangerous on pump gas. if i only wanted a 12-13 sec car then i would go turbo sohc vtec but i want faster.

mellow boy, ive heard that stroker kits arent that reliable and break easy.

yeah b16 swaps go for around $3000, thats a complete swap, ready to drive out. since the b16a is like the most popular swap around, everyone and their moms have one, it has alot of performance aftermarket. but if you want to go 11s then your gonna need alot more than $7000 id say about $10 grand because you are gonna need to build the motor up alittle

I thank each and every one of you for the information that has been given. It has all been very heplfull, and i think i will end up going with the d16 and a turbo system.

But dont stop feeding in the info all that can be supplied will be put to use some how. I think i have a friend that is getting ready to swap a B16 into his 91 hatch. so keep the info coming.

LadyNredSi: I don't know why u are gettin offended. It seems like theres some ppl here are down for you cause u seem to think u can shut ppl up of what you are sayin. If i offended u then i guess i'm sorry. Everyone have a b16? So mostly ppl have hondas whats ur point? U sound like a domestic owner or them supras and dsm owners. They all be sayin, "oh why u get a honda for ...get a supra and spend like 1300 bucks just make it 12 seconds already instead of spending 5-10 grand on making your lil honda goin 11's." U see my point? I'm not bein disrespectful here but sohc engines are harder to tune and it takes alot of work. You know that ebisi guy or something thats running high 10's on a sohc? Well don't think its easy to reach to that point cause its not. LOTS of money is involved and LOTS LOTS of tuning. I swear to u that i'm impressed that you do swaps and i have no problem with that. My girl works on her own car which she has a 2000 blue si. I'm happy for her cause not many girls do that. For me i think goin sohc is not worth it for your money but it is worth it if you wanna be different. I don't care if the whole damn world have a b-series swap. If i was to think like you then i wouldn't be driven a honda. I would be driving a dsm or vr4's . With 7 grand that guy can hit 12's on an all motor b16. Stroker kits are reliable it depends on what brand u get actually. Garage Kwai ( local shop) has a hatchback that runs 12's and he stroked it up to 1.8 i think? Well anyways he been driven it for 2 years. THe only problem it eats alot of gas which i'm not really worried about. SO let the guy choose whatever he wants. Don't tell him "everyone gots a b16". If he wants a sohc then by all means go for it. Just remember u gonna have problems down the road especially when goin turbo. So once again Ami i'm not tryin to make u look stupid cause u are a girl , we are just both expressing our opinions thats all.:)

mellowboy, no hard feelings. but you were the first one to say you were sick of hearing everyone talk about turbo. we'll i'm equally tired of everybody suggesting the b16. he doesn't want to drop $7000 on building up a b16. there is no tuning issues with sohc. what are you talking about? it needs no more tuning than any other. and if you build a turbo setup and not just drop turbo in, your car will run like cake. matter of fact, less stress because you chill in lower rpm.
turbo info (http://www.thedropshop.tv/vafc.htm)

most newbie that come in here are looking for a cheap swap they can do themselves. then they are told the b16. they get all hyped and then quickly discouraged. i hear it everyday... 10+ e-mails alone about swaps (go ask cwbetb, he still gets mail, he handed the site over almost a year ago) saying they can't wait to do a b16...how do you do it? i give them some links. they come back bummed saying that was more work than they wanted to get into...costs more than they wanted to spend...and what is my next suggestion. that is why i asked what time he wanted to run and how much of a budget.

not all the newbies want just a built engine. Fireforge79 being a perfect example. he also wants a bodykit and rims.

btw, people aren't down for me because i try and shut people up. they are down for me because i have been around for 3 years answering questions everyday...like a broken record...some of the questions are repeated so often i'm working on a whole new how-to section on the site. some of these people like setanta, travis_118, habibb88, EF9JDM, cwbetb and others have also hung in there...and they get the same respect. we don't just drive 4th gens...we eat, sleep, and breathe honda. :flash:

ami

I agree with Ami. I originally wanted to do a B16A transplant really badly. I knew that I wanted a newer engine dropped into my car, but the reason I chose the B16 was because that's all I ever heard about. After researching it some more, I chose the D16Y8, which is really much more suitable for my needs and my level of experience. It was just cuz I had B16 crammed down my throat from day one, and I never really knew about the other swaps.

not all the newbies want just a built engine. Fireforge79 being a perfect example. he also wants a bodykit and rims/

I guess I might be an example of a newbie cause before I even thought of doing any engine modz, I wanted to get my stereo decent, and then clears on the front (i ended up doing clears before the stereo but whatever)