Roadgoing Gulf Racer

carbuilder2002

08-08-2006, 12:52 AM

Has anyone got more detail on the 1995 Gulf GTR that was converted for road use? I know it was not converted by Mclaren and have heard that is was not a very thoroug conversion.
Ay pictures of it post conversion and where is it now?

carbuilder2002

mini magic

08-08-2006, 08:11 AM

The one that was kept in Gulf livery you mean? 012R? Its now in the US. I do have pics but imageshack isn't working for me.

hurstg01

08-08-2006, 01:14 PM

mini magic

08-08-2006, 02:23 PM

Yep. Thats the one i was thinking of

Peloton25

08-08-2006, 03:02 PM

We're talking 1995 GTRs, not 1996's though. #02R would be the chassis in question and there is a small photo of it at the top of the "Recap of the English F1 fleet" thread. This car competed in the 1996 British GT series in a blue and yellow livery similar to how it looks now, and also wore the Lloyds livery at one race. Last known owner was Paul Lanzante, but it's been about a decade since then. I had a contact who was set to tell me more about this car recently, but so far haven't gotten anything back.

>8^)
ER

carbuilder2002

08-08-2006, 03:23 PM

Thats the one Poleton, contacted Lanzante about 2 years ago regarding the conversion but he informed me that all the surplus bits removed had been disposed of and they had not kept a photographic record of the conversion.
I was trying to get a handle on trying to find and contact the owner with a view to carrying out a detailed poto session as I am planning on building a large scale 1995 Gulf GTR, failing that I have permission to photograph 10R but do not know what differences there will be.

Thanks to all who have assisted.

carbuilder2002

carbuilder2002

08-08-2006, 03:27 PM

Links to the pictures of 02R an 14R are not visible to me.

carbuilder2002

tak43

08-08-2006, 04:01 PM

Here a link to a photo that i took in 2001 at FOS in England the car came from the USA at the time but was staying in England as it was going to be sold.

At the time a picture appreared in the magazine it said it was cassis 012 here a link to a photo

http://thumb17.webshots.com/t/30/31/6/4/99/2743604990048036277HmHvmM_th.jpg (http://community.webshots.com/photo/2743604990048036277HmHvmM)

It was coverted from the race Gulf car and the owner drove it to Le Mans one year he was a well know driver.

http://image62.webshots.com/162/6/23/43/469862343AxlKrX_ph.jpg

tak43

mini magic

08-08-2006, 05:31 PM

I doubt you'll get to photograph 002R. It is in the UK though

carbuilder2002

08-08-2006, 05:51 PM

Am I right in saying the other 1995 Gulf cars are in the USA?

carbuilder2002

Peloton25

08-08-2006, 06:16 PM

No - I don't think so. The two other '95 Gulf cars were #04R and #08R.

Chassis #08R became the West Adrenaline car and is now believed to be in Bahrain after a road conversion and respray to match the LM.

Chassis #04R is missing in action as far as I can tell, but that was the car which was heavily damaged in a crash at Monza in 1995 and #08R replaced it.

The official race history from McLaren claims that #04R was revived for a 1996 JGTC race at Mine circuit, but I've always wondered if maybe that was an error.

>8^)
ER

tak43

08-08-2006, 11:49 PM

No - I don't think so. The two other '95 Gulf cars were #04R and #08R.

Chassis #08R became the West Adrenaline car and is now believed to be in Bahrain after a road conversion and respray to match the LM.

Chassis #04R is missing in action as far as I can tell, but that was the car which was heavily damaged in a crash at Monza in 1995 and #08R replaced it.

The official race history from McLaren claims that #04R was revived for a 1996 JGTC race at Mine circuit, but I've always wondered if maybe that was an error.

>8^)
ER

As far as i can remember there was no 1995 Gulf car coverted to road use the only was the 1996.

12R and 15R were also a Gulf car from the 1996 series

tak43

tak43

Le Man

08-09-2006, 03:05 AM

No - I don't think so. The two other '95 Gulf cars were #04R and #08R.

Chassis #08R became the West Adrenaline car and is now believed to be in Bahrain after a road conversion and respray to match the LM.

Chassis #04R is missing in action as far as I can tell, but that was the car which was heavily damaged in a crash at Monza in 1995 and #08R replaced it.

The official race history from McLaren claims that #04R was revived for a 1996 JGTC race at Mine circuit, but I've always wondered if maybe that was an error.

>8^)
ER

Erik, 04R Was crashed and destroyed at Jarama 95.

mini magic

08-09-2006, 09:10 AM

Erik, 04R Was crashed and destroyed at Jarama 95.

As in written off? :(

Peloton25

08-09-2006, 10:40 AM

Erik, 04R Was crashed and destroyed at Jarama 95.

Ahhh - it seems this car was badly crashed at two races in a row. I didn't have any record of #04R participating at Jarama, however I just looked through the 1995 GT Endurance book and it mentions:

"There should have been six McLarens on the grid, with the addition of the GRT team's new F1 GTR for Fabien Giroix and Moody Fayed's Mach 1 GTR for Justin Bell and Andy Wallace. One was lost, though, as Lindsay Owne-Jones had a major crash on the downhill section, losing control at over 150 km/h then hitting the barrier and rolling the car over."

One question though - you say "destroyed" but McLaren say it replaced #14R at the final race in the JGTC series in 1996. That wouldn't be the first error that McLaren have made, but do you know if it's accurate or what the real answer might be?

>8^)
ER

Le Man

08-09-2006, 01:30 PM

Ahhh - it seems this car was badly crashed at two races in a row. I didn't have any record of #04R participating at Jarama, however I just looked through the 1995 GT Endurance book and it mentions:

"There should have been six McLarens on the grid, with the addition of the GRT team's new F1 GTR for Fabien Giroix and Moody Fayed's Mach 1 GTR for Justin Bell and Andy Wallace. One was lost, though, as Lindsay Owne-Jones had a major crash on the downhill section, losing control at over 150 km/h then hitting the barrier and rolling the car over."

One question though - you say "destroyed" but McLaren say it replaced #14R at the final race in the JGTC series in 1996. That wouldn't be the first error that McLaren have made, but do you know if it's accurate or what the real answer might be?

>8^)
ER

Monza 95, 04R Retired from race when a wheel came off the car!!

Lyndsay Owen-Jones crashed 04R heavily in free practice at Jarama. He even broke his GTR,s seat!! A deal was done with McLaren for him to continue the race season, so the GTR (08R) the car Ueno Clinic was going to use for LeMans was diverted to GTC. 04R was then, most definately repaired by McLaren. I can also confirm that it was used in the JGTC 96 final race.

Mclaren as far as I know, have rebuilt all the damaged GTR monocoques. Check out the 97 GTR pic I posted of John Nielsens crash at Suzuka. Heavy damage!! But it was repaired by McLaren.

Peloton25

08-09-2006, 02:30 PM

Monza 95, 04R Retired from race when a wheel came off the car!!

Interesting - there's a small photo of that car in the GT Endurance book chapter on the Monza race and it shows a decent amount of damage caused by the loss of the wheel.

Mclaren as far as I know, have rebuilt all the damaged GTR monocoques.

Do you know if that's true of #14R as well? That is another GTR that seems to have gone missing since it retired after the crash at Sugo circuit.

>8^)
ER

mini magic

08-09-2006, 02:45 PM

I thought we established that the Monaco GTR was 014R?

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=4171736&postcount=80

Le Man

08-09-2006, 03:13 PM

Do you know if that's true of #14R as well? That is another GTR that seems to have gone missing since it retired after the crash at Sugo circuit.

>8^)
ER

As to the where abouts of 014R. Although I have no evidence, I saw a program on German TV showing Ralph Schumacher with his collection of race cars he has raced through out his career. He is supposed to have at least one of each of all the cars he has raced. Even if it is not the actual chassis # he raced. So it may be in his private collection.

Le Man

08-09-2006, 03:19 PM

I thought we established that the Monaco GTR was 014R?

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=4171736&postcount=80

The GTR seen in Monaco is 016R. It is fitted with a road F1 seat. as seen on fifth gear recently.

Peloton25

08-09-2006, 04:02 PM

The GTR seen in Monaco is 016R. It is fitted with a road F1 seat. as seen on fifth gear recently.

Not possible - when those Monaco photos were taken GTR #16R was still wearing it's FINA paint scheme.

I had always thought the orange GTR seen in Monaco was #15R? It was only the info Le Man provided that caused me to think that it's possibly #14R instead since all the other 1996 GTRs seem to be accounted for, but I still don't consider it confirmed. :dunno:

>8^)
ER

Le Man

08-09-2006, 04:24 PM

This one!! (or are we talking about a different set of pics?)

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/8938/img22911apzb3.th.jpg (http://img349.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img22911apzb3.jpg)

tak43

08-09-2006, 04:54 PM

16R was the BMW Motorsport Bigazzi car finished 4th Silverstone and 11th Le Mans 1996

It was coverted into road used and still had the BMW white and blue livery at the time it was used by Ray Bellm

It was up for sales in Motorsport magazine a coupe of year ago .

i have the for sale page which i kept

tak43

mini magic

08-09-2006, 04:57 PM

This one!! (or are we talking about a different set of pics?)

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/8938/img22911apzb3.th.jpg (http://img349.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img22911apzb3.jpg)
Thats the one but its definatley not 016R

Peloton25

08-09-2006, 05:33 PM

This one!! (or are we talking about a different set of pics?)

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/8938/img22911apzb3.th.jpg (http://img349.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img22911apzb3.jpg)

That's the one, but those Monaco photos were taken in 2003 and the car wasn't resprayed in Papaya until Maranello Motorsport in Melbourne, Australia purchased the car from Duncan Hamilton in 2005.

>8^)
ER

Le Man

08-09-2006, 05:38 PM

OOPS!!..... its not 016R, The inclusion of the road car seat threw me.

Anybody seen 011R lately!!

mini magic

08-09-2006, 06:10 PM

Anybody seen 011R lately!!

I think its still for sale in Germany

BMW.WilliamsF1Team

08-09-2006, 08:07 PM

I think its still for sale in Germany

The green one is for sale again. I can't remember right now if it's 051. Me thinks it's 51. Red interior. I hope I win the lotto. Damn I'm pissed, the lottery never agrees with me. Did it come back from Japan or just the web designer playing around?

http://www.ks-autohandel.de/Cardetails.aspx?carid=25&brandid=21

Edit: Man...my favorite F50 sold from their site. Low mileage post-production. :(

Peloton25

08-09-2006, 08:28 PM

The green one is for sale again. I can't remember right now if it's 051. Me thinks it's 51. Red interior. I hope I win the lotto. Damn I'm pissed, the lottery never agrees with me. Did it come back from Japan or just the web designer playing around?

http://www.ks-autohandel.de/Cardetails.aspx?carid=25&brandid=21

That's definitely #051 again. Maybe the guy from Japan wrote a bad check? :lol:

>8^)
ER

Le Man

08-10-2006, 12:38 PM

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/8938/img22911apzb3.th.jpg (http://img349.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img22911apzb3.jpg)

The more I look at this GTR, the more it looks like 11R. Right down to the LM handbrake and three vent slots over the front wings (If you ignore the seat and roof scoop).

If it is a different GTR. It will now make six in papaya!!

mini magic

08-10-2006, 01:11 PM

Yes, but i'm fairly sure 011R was still in Europe at the time and this car was on English plates. Then again, maybe you're right. That would explain why the plates don't show up in a search on the DVLA site. I think the chances of it being 011R are very slim

mini magic

08-10-2006, 01:16 PM

Looking over pics there are a few differences. 011R has blue seatbelts. 011R has an all black GTR seat.

Lets go over the GTR's

001R - NO
002R - NO
003R - NO
004R - ? (Retrofit 96 GTR bits? Unlikely but possible)
005R - NO
006R - NO
007R - NO
008R - NO
009R - NO
010R - NO
011R - Possibly
012R - NO
013R - NO
014R - Possibly
015R - Possibly
016R - NO
017R - NO
018R - NO

We just need to narrow it down even more

Le Man

08-10-2006, 01:25 PM

What we really need Chris ,

Is some up to date pics of 11R on the showroom floor at KS-Autohandel!!

Nice trip out for somebody (hint,hint Patrick) To see three F1,s at the same time.

mini magic

08-10-2006, 01:41 PM

andybee

08-10-2006, 02:53 PM

The Lanzante transformation was pretty good IIRC and although Paul and his team did it, I dont think he actually owned it. It was for a well-known person associated with the F1 GTR. There main expertise is running and rebuilding older and classic cars

They have converted a few F1s IIRC and I thought they did the Harrods car by I cant find any evidance to find this,.

Le Man

08-10-2006, 03:59 PM

Le Man

08-10-2006, 04:17 PM

The Lanzante transformation was pretty good IIRC and although Paul and his team did it, I dont think he actually owned it. It was for a well-known person associated with the F1 GTR. There main expertise is running and rebuilding older and classic cars

They have converted a few F1s IIRC and I thought they did the Harrods car by I cant find any evidance to find this,.

Here you go Andy,

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~lanzan/Mclaren.htm

02R, 06R, 12R And 16R (I may be wrong though)

mini magic

08-10-2006, 04:19 PM

Its not 002R for sure. I guess it could be XPLM :confused:

PatrickT82

08-10-2006, 06:08 PM

mini magic: I took those 2 11R pics at KS Autohandel in Germany.

It is still there and will be there again tomorrow.

It seems like KS has 53 again for sale too!!!!!

Peloton25

08-15-2006, 10:42 PM

They have converted a few F1s IIRC and I thought they did the Harrods car by I cant find any evidance to find this,.

Not doubting you Andy, but this website seems to suggest they did the conversion on the Harrod's car:

http://www.stw-harnesses.co.uk/index_003.htm

>8^)
ER

Mcl@ren

08-16-2006, 03:15 AM

hey carbuilder,

i am considering building a 1/12 model of the mclaren, i want top get as close as possible to the real thing in every detail posible. what schematics of the car do you have to go by. pics of the car in the process of being built are hard to come by so i have a lot of missing info to go on.

my main concern is the shape of the cockpit area, behind the drivers seat and where the passengers sit.

do you know of any scale drawings of the interior with dimensions ?

andybee

08-16-2006, 10:00 AM

Not doubting you Andy, but this website seems to suggest they did the conversion on the Harrod's car:

http://www.stw-harnesses.co.uk/index_003.htm

>8^)
ER

ah, yes, they ring a bell. I remember seeing their name before. Sorry about that. 7 years (to the day) since I left McL. memory going!

carbuilder2002

08-16-2006, 03:49 PM

Hi Mcl@ren,
No drawings available that i know of, Mclaren understandably will not divulge such detail and yes I approached them in an open manner as I am building a large scale model.
I have been close to #10R and a couple of the Fina cars and as a Design Engineer and Draughtsman from days gone by have gone part way to building up a 3D CAD model at least of the underpinnings and interior shells but they are not yet strictly right as am trying to get a mutually convenient day to go down to 10 10nths and spend a day measuring and photographing the car.
A good starting point would be to get your hands on one of the 1/12 or 1/18 scale models already on sale. This is what i used for my rough layout but as I said it needs refining with dimensions taken from the actual article.
I dont trust models by others as often they are done from photographs and creative guesswork.

Sorry cant be of more help.

carbuilder2002

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