'93 Del sol will not start at all now

I have a 1993 Honda Del sol SI VTEC, 71,000 miles, motor # D16Z6, distributor # TD-42U

My original distributor was stolen along with many, many other parts when my car was stolen and striped…that was a bad day. lol. :banghead: After about 5 months of hard work it was back on the road.

My car was working fine for about a year and then at times it would not start. However after waiting 20 to 30 minutes it would start and run fine. This would only occur about once every 2 months. Since then it has progressively gotten worse (it would happen 2-4 times a month). Once in a great while the check engine light would come on and then the next time I used the car it would be off.
The last time it was running it did something a little different. It started and ran fine for a while and then it just died at a stop sign and wouldn’t start. After about 10 minutes it then started and ran fine all the way home. The next day however it would not start at all, and after waiting 30 minutes I tried again and later again, and still / now it will not start at all.

Car will not start.

No spark to plugs, wires, and off of distributor.

It is getting fuel.

Strong battery.

I checked all the fuses. All good.

I tried to get a code off the check engine light the way it says to on this website but the check engine light would come on and stay on when the key was either in the #2 and #3 (cranking) position.

I change the distributor with a 2nd hand one from eBay but still no spark and no start. I am pretty sure this 2nd hand distributor is also no good.

Can someone please tell me how to test the module in the distributor, the coil in the distributor and the wiring to the distributor? And also the range it should be within, and the volt /ohm / amp meter setting to test with.

The module has 4 connectors coming off of it (3 on the top & 1 on the side)

The coil has the +, -, & coil wire out of course.

The large wire connector has 7 wires:
1. yellow w/ green stripe------------goes to module in distributor
2. light blue w/ light green stripe-- goes to middle pick-up in distributor
3. peach w/ light blue stripe--------- goes to bottom pick-up in distributor
4. peach-------------------------------- goes to top pick-up in distributor
5. light blue w/ yellow stripe-------- goes to middle pick-up in distributor
6. white w/ blue stripe---------------- goes to bottom pick-up in distributor
7. white--------------------------------- goes to top pick-up in distributor

The small connector has 2 wires:
1. Black w/ yellow stripe------------- goes to module and +coil in distributor
2. blue----------------------------------- goes to goes to module in distributor

There is also a short wire from the module to the – coil.

All help will be greatly appreciated.

Aloha!

Check these, see if that gets you going in the right direction. And don't make duplicate posts please.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f29/Guitarxfreak1/Dist1.gif

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f29/Guitarxfreak1/Dist2.gif

Thanks for responding. I will do as it says. Sorry for the double post I thought I posted in the wrong place, newbie. I know, newbies :screwy: . lol.

I did the Igniter Unit Input test.


#3 BLK/YEL had battery voltage.


#4 WHT/BLU had battery voltage.


I also check the coil. The primary winding resistance was 1.3 ohms (just outside of the specs of 0.6 to 0.8 ohms, however the temperature of the coil was a little higher then the specs of 68 degrees (it was about 75 to 85 degrees). The secondary winding resistance was 16,940 ohms (which is within the specs of 13,200 to 19,800).

Would this difference in the primary winding resistance be enough to cause a no spark situation? And can a faulty Igniter Unit cause the coil to go bad?


I checked the wire WHT/BLU between the coil and the Igniter Unit and had battery voltage.


#5 YEL/GRN which changed colors, after a connector, to PINK, then went to the computer. Had continuity from YEL/GRN wire that goes into igniter to computer on the passenger side just right of foot area.
I think that was what was meant by PGM-FI ECU, but not sure.


#6 the BLU wire which also changed colors to RED/GRN also ran into the computer, also had continuity from BLU wire that goes into igniter to computer. How would I then trace it to the tachometer? Up to the tachometer gauge?


Thanks again for your help.

I just checked my ohm meter and noticed that when I touch the 2 testing wires from the meter togeter it reads 00.5 ohms. Shold't this reading be 00.0 ohms?

Thanks

Ok, it seems like everything is ok. The primary winding could be it though, and I know that when a coil heats up, its resistance decreases. So at 68 deg, it might even be a higher resistance. Did you compare specs for both distributers? If it is your coil, you could either get a new distributer or, I know autozone sells the MSD external coil and cap kit for like 40$. That just overrides the internal coil and uses the MSD one. I know people that have had coils die and use the MSD and it works great. As for the multimeter, you might have crappy leads, try touching them together, then turn it on to ohms. That may recalibrate it. Also, yes, the PGM-FI ecu is your computer.

My original distributor coil readings were: The primary winding resistance was 1.1 ohms (just outside of the specs of 0.6 to 0.8 ohms, the secondary winding resistance was 16,980 ohms (which is within the specs of 13,200 to 19,800). (Almost the same reading as the replacment distributor I got.)

(I tried a little experiment; I put the coil in my refrigerator to make it colder and took the readings again then put it out in the sun and took the readings again . There was very little difference in reading)

I just went and got a MSD SS Coil Blaster, and the the MSD Distributor Cap is on the way.

I forgot to ask the salesperson if the MSD Distributor Cap comes with the necessary wiring to wire the distributor to the new coil, because the coil didn't come with any wires.

The new MSD Blaster Coil readings were:The primary winding resistance was 0.8 ohms and the secondary winding resistance was 4,440 ohms.(which is out of the specs of 13,200 to 19,800)??? I did not hook it up to the car yet waiting for the cap.

Also, do you know of a good step by step on the best way to run / connect the distributor wires from the original coil out of the distributor and to the Blaster coil. I would like to make it the best way possible to avoid any shorts or problems.

Thanks again for your help.

Aloha!

The MSD will have a different reading becuase it's a different coil. That's normal. I personally have never hooked up an MSD but I know it comes with the wire to connect the coil to the cap and there are two wires you have to run from the coil to inside the distributer. It comes with instructions though, so it shouldn't be that difficult.

Thanks for your help. I'll let you know how it went once I receive my new cap and install it.

One other question...Can a bad/faulty ignitor cause a coil to go bad? I'm a little concerned about this new MSD coil geting messed up. Your thoughts will be appreciated

Aloha!

Nah, your MSD will be ok.

Hi,
Well I installed my new MSD cap & MSD coil but my car still will not start. I followed al the directions and rechecked my work.

No spark to plugs, wire, or from the new coil wire.:shakehead

Any other suggestions?

Possibly the igniter. I think at this point your best option is to get a new distributer. You can either keep the MSD becuase it does help your ignition system, or you can try to return it.

Today I was going over a few more checks.

I checked the main relay, and all the checks were ok.

I pulled a plug again checking for spark. Still no spark but I did not smell any fuel this time after cranking for some time. The first time I checked (the day after I drove it home) I could smell fuel when I pulled a plug.

After realizing I may have more then one problem. I then wanted to check the fuel pump. I turned ignition on and I hear nothing coming from the fuel pump. Then I checked to see if I was getting voltage with ignition on to the fuel pump. And NO, I was not getting any voltage. I did have a good ground from - wire to body ground. I then checked the + wire from the fuel pump to the main relay, wire was ok; had continuity, but when I checked it for voltage, I had NO voltage. I then checked the wire to the #1 slot on the main relay for voltage. It did have voltage. I can hear and feel the main relay operating when I turn the key to the on position.

This is how I checked the main relay.
Main Relay Test:
NOTE: If the car starts and continues to run, the main relay is okay.

Remove the main relay.
Attach the battery positive terminal to the No. 4 terminal and the battery negative terminal to the No. 8 terminal of the main relay. Then check for continuity between the No. 5 terminal and No. 7 terminal of the main relay.
If there is continuity, go on to step 3.
If there is no continuity, replace the relay and retest.
Attach the battery positive terminal to the No. 5 terminal and the battery negative terminal to the No. 2 terminal of the main relay. Then check that there is continuity between the No. 1 terminal and No. 3 terminal of the main relay.
If there is continuity, go on to step 4.
If there is no continuity, replace the relay and retest.
Attach the battery positive terminal to the No. 3 terminal and battery negative terminal to the No. 8 terminal of the main relay. Then check that there is continuity between the No. 5 terminal and No. 7 terminal of the main relay.
If there is continuity, the relay is OK; If the fuel pump still does not work, go to Harness Test.
If there is no continuity, replace the relay and retest. The only differance I did is, since my car didn't have the No. 4 terminal, but my car had a No. 6 terminal, I tested it by substituting the No. 4 terminal with my No. 6 terminal.

Not sure why mine is different.

I forgot to put the main relay back in before I cranked the car over, funny thing is that it cranked over (of course it didn't start). The starter must be on its own circut.

Is there a way to better test the main relay, and also test the ECU?

Thanks again for your willingness to help.

Aloha!

Check your under-hood fuse box and see if the big IG (50A) fuse is blown.

Hi,
Yes the big IG (50A) fuse is good. I rechecked and rechecked all the fuses under the hood and the fuses in the fuse box below the steering wheel hoping it would be that simple.

I bought a new main relay and put it in today but still not starting, no spark and no power to fuel pump. That wasn't it.:shakehead

I do get power to the injectors.

I tested the fuel pump by hooking it straight up to the battery for a few seconds to see if it would make any noise. It didn't make a thumping noise like normal, but it did make a steady type of noise as if an electric motor was running and seem to work.

The wire is good from the fuel pump to the main relay, but I'm not getting power off of the #7 connector of the relay (with relay connected) and the key in the ON position.

Thanks again for your help.

Aloha!

When there's no power at #7 it means the relay is bad. You said you replaced it, maybe it's faulty.

Replace the coil. I had this exact same problem, came here looking for answers. Didn't test relays or anything else. Change cap, roter, cables, plugs, and still no spark. changed coil, BOOOM, instantly starts up, better than before. try it. if it doesn't work, you can always take the coil back. I've read in other forums that the coil will sometimes LOOK good on test but not actually function for high voltage.

Installing the MSD is a fix for replacing the coil because it's an external coil. It does the same thing it's just cheaper.

Hi,
I have the new coil installed and still no spark.

Is there a way to test out the computer/ECM? Could a bad igniter cause a ECM to go bad?

I am going to test out both my old and new relay on a different car to see if it works for sure.

With the key in the ON position, the check engine light stays on and will not go out. I tried using a paper clip to arc the diagnostic connector so that my check engine light would begin to blink, but the check engine light just stays on. Which the Diagnosis Code is calling to check ECU.

Where I'm at now:
Check engine light stays on; key in the ON position.
No spark from coil, spark plug wires, ect.
No voltage to fuel pump.
I have voltage to injectors.
First changed out the distributor with a used distributor (I was told it was working) --No spark--
Then I put in the new MSD coil and MSD cap in. --No spark--
Fuel in the tank.
Strong battery.
Replaced main relay with a new one. --No spark or voltage to fuel pump--

Thanks again for your help.

It could be a faulty ECU. Before you go buying a new one, do you know anyone with with a 92-95 Civic Ex/Si? Thay all have the same ECU as you do and you could use that to test wether your ECU is bad or not.

I tested both relays on my neighbors civic and the car ran great with either one.

Would this have anything to do with the ignition or since the engine cranks over count that as being ok?

Thanks again.

I tested both relays on my neighbors civic and the car ran great with either one.

Would this have anything to do with the ignition or since the engine cranks over count that as being ok?

I couldn't test the ECU on my neighbors Civic because his was Auto 1.5L & mine is 5spd 1.6 VTEC.

Thanks again.

Well you said that you don't have power at the fuel pump either, so even if you were getting spark, it still wouldn't start. You said your car was stolen, was the ignition switch damaged at all or any wiring?

Hi,
There were no damaged wires when it was stolen. The IGN key tumbler was poped out to run the car with a screwdriver. I replaced the whole IGN and the car worked fine. It was stolen a ways back also.

I tried to find an indication of a bad wire but they appear to be fine.

Thanks again.

Hi,

Main Relay volt meter test I did with a new volt meter I bought.

With Main Relay connected:

Connector #1: TO BAT.
Key Position 0: Battery Voltage
Key Position I: Battery Voltage
Key Position II: Battery Voltage
Key Position III (cranking): Battery Voltage

Connector #2: TO GROUND (Good Ground)
Key Position 0: -00.1Mv *
Key Position I: -00.1Mv *
Key Position II: 11.0Mv *
Key Position III (cranking): 102.0Mv *

Connector #3: TO ECU
Key Position 0: 10.6Mv *
Key Position I: 10.6Mv *
Key Position II: 13.7Mv *
Key Position III (cranking): 106.0Mv *

Connector #5: TO IGN.
Key Position 0: 1.5Mv *
Key Position I: 2.2Mv *
Key Position II: Battery Voltage
Key Position III (cranking): Battery Voltage

Connector #6: TO SWITCH
Key Position 0: -00.1Mv *
Key Position I: -00.1Mv *
Key Position II: 03.5Mv *
Key Position III (cranking): Battery Voltage

Connector #7: TO FUEL PUMP
Key Position 0: -00.1Mv *
Key Position I: -00.1Mv *
Key Position II: 02.0Mv *
Key Position III (cranking): 01.6Mv *

Connector #8: TO ECU
Key Position 0: Nothing
Key Position I: Nothing
Key Position II: Battery Voltage
Key Position III (cranking): Battery Voltage

*When in Mv mode on the volt meter, there is a 200 below the decimal point.

Is Connector #7: TO FUEL PUMP, supposed to have battery voltage? or is the reading I got normal?

I also tried to get a voltage reading from the connector that connects to the fuel pump.
With connector atached to the fuel pump I got reading of:
Key Position 0: 80.0Mv to 115.0Mv
Key Position I: 80.0Mv to 130.0Mv
Key Position II: 20.0Mv to 200.0Mv
Key Position III (cranking): 20.0Mv to 200.0Mv
Are these normal readings? What voltage is required for the fuel pump to work?

Thanks again for your help.

Ok, swap ECU's with your neighbor. Your car won't run perfect, but if it does run, we're getting somewhere.

Hi,
I just bought a used ECU and will be getting it the mail in about a week.

Do you happen to know what voltage is required for the fuel pump to work properly?

Thanks again

12-14, it needs battery voltage. Those readings that are in the mV range might as well be 0's, that's not enough to run anything on your car.

Hi,
I got the ECU in the mail today and installed it. WOW the car does have life now. It actually started up after adjusting the distrubtor a little.

I am getting a code now from the ECU. It is eather a 4 or 41.

When I jump it, the CEL blinks off and on again 4 time, then there is one very fast blink almost like a flash. Then it repeats the same thing again and again...

I reset the ECU by removing the ECU fuse for 10 + sec., I think that is how to do it.

I still got the same code.

4Crank Shaft Position Sensor (CKP Sensor)
or
41Heated 02 Sensor

I'm pretty sure that the Crank Shaft Position Sensor is in the distrubtor so
I switched distrubtors and am still getting the same code. Both distrubtors ran in the car fine.

I tested the O2 sensor by:
With key OFF.
Disconnect the 4P connector from the HO2S.
Measure resistance between terminals C & D on the HO2S.
Is there 10-40 ohms?

There was no reading at all.
It recomends replacing the HO2Sensor.

So I think I will pick up a HO2Sensor and see if the code gos away.

Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Aloha!

4 long and 1 short is 41. There should be 4 wires from your O2. The heater circuit is the black and yellow/black. Check for 12v when the car is on but not running. If there is no voltage, replace the sensor.

Hi,
You mentioned the heater circuit is the black and yellow/black. Check for 12v when the car is on but not running.

Do I disconnect the o2 Sensor plug to check for 12v or probe the back of the connector while connected to the o2 sensor and check for 12v?

Also doesn't there need to be resistence between terminals C & D (2 of the 4 wires) on the HO2S? (I got from a Chilton manual)

Thanks again.

Yeah, 10-40 ohms between C and D. Both checked with the O2 sensor installed. The Chilton's doesn't specify that?

Hi,
The Chilton's says:
With key OFF.
Disconnect the 4P connector from the HO2S.
Measure resistance between terminals C & D on the HO2S.
Is there 10-40 ohms?

I did all that and did not get any reading at all as if there was no continuity.

From there Chilton's says if the is not 10-40 ohms replace o2s.

At that point it stops. If there was 10-40 ohms then it continues on.

I did check the heater circuit: the orn/black (the book said orn/black) and yellow/black wire, check for 12v.

And there was 12v, this was with the connector disconected. It doesn't say to disconect it or not but a nearby drawing shows it disconected, so thats how I did it.

This voltage test was assuming there was 10-40 ohms on the previous test.

Thanks again for your input.

Aloha!

Ok, if the sensor checks out ok and you're still getting the code, check the wiring from the ECU, through the firewall, and down to the O2. There might be a short somewhere.

Hi,
The first test in the Chilton's, it says if the is not 10-40 ohms between terminals C & D on the HO2S, replace o2s.

I'm assuming that that ment it was bad (the o2 sensor).?

Thanks again for your help.

Aloha!

Yup, replace the sensor. Have fun getting it out. :evillol: My recomendation is to heat it up at the base with a propane torch and then try to break it lose.

Hi,
I got the new 02 sensor in (and you were right that was a bit@! to get out even with the heat it stripted a bit, I tapped the threads to clean it up) and it runs great now.

I also noticed the car has an increase in power from the MSD Coil. Nice addition.

The computer now has no codes. :)

Thanks a lot for all your help.

Aloha!

Excellent! Glad it all worked out for you.

Today I was going over a few more checks.

I checked the main relay, and all the checks were ok.

I pulled a plug again checking for spark. Still no spark but I did not smell any fuel this time after cranking for some time. The first time I checked (the day after I drove it home) I could smell fuel when I pulled a plug.

After realizing I may have more then one problem. I then wanted to check the fuel pump. I turned ignition on and I hear nothing coming from the fuel pump. Then I checked to see if I was getting voltage with ignition on to the fuel pump. And NO, I was not getting any voltage. I did have a good ground from - wire to body ground. I then checked the + wire from the fuel pump to the main relay, wire was ok; had continuity, but when I checked it for voltage, I had NO voltage. I then checked the wire to the #1 slot on the main relay for voltage. It did have voltage. I can hear and feel the main relay operating when I turn the key to the on position.

This is how I checked the main relay.
Main Relay Test:
NOTE: If the car starts and continues to run, the main relay is okay.

Remove the main relay.
Attach the battery positive terminal to the No. 4 terminal and the battery negative terminal to the No. 8 terminal of the main relay. Then check for continuity between the No. 5 terminal and No. 7 terminal of the main relay.
If there is continuity, go on to step 3.
If there is no continuity, replace the relay and retest.
Attach the battery positive terminal to the No. 5 terminal and the battery negative terminal to the No. 2 terminal of the main relay. Then check that there is continuity between the No. 1 terminal and No. 3 terminal of the main relay.
If there is continuity, go on to step 4.
If there is no continuity, replace the relay and retest.
Attach the battery positive terminal to the No. 3 terminal and battery negative terminal to the No. 8 terminal of the main relay. Then check that there is continuity between the No. 5 terminal and No. 7 terminal of the main relay.
If there is continuity, the relay is OK; If the fuel pump still does not work, go to Harness Test.
If there is no continuity, replace the relay and retest. The only differance I did is, since my car didn't have the No. 4 terminal, but my car had a No. 6 terminal, I tested it by substituting the No. 4 terminal with my No. 6 terminal.

Not sure why mine is different.

I forgot to put the main relay back in before I cranked the car over, funny thing is that it cranked over (of course it didn't start). The starter must be on its own circut.

Is there a way to better test the main relay, and also test the ECU?

Thanks again for your willingness to help.

Aloha!



Hi ... what about if i don't have negative in terminal #8 .... a put negative on #8 and fuel pump start to work , but car doesnt start .... when start (some days after try a lot of times) run all day very good .. then next day the same problem , car doesn't start.