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V6 to V8 swap information.


666_speed
07-27-2006, 06:36 PM
Here is a real basic run down of what is involved in swapping a v6 for a v8. This information is not my own and was borrowed from other forums and websites. If anyone has more to add or edit, please do so. Thanks and I hope this helps atleast 1 person.

--What you WILL need.

1) Engine, computer, engine harness, and dash harness. A 3.8's wiring harness can be adapted to work with an LS1 swap, but is not recommended. Only the 90-92 3.1 MPI computer is the same as a 90-92 V8 TPI, only the PROM is different. Certain conversions in the 93-02 cars may require the change of the dash and electrical braking components as well as airbag components. Airbag sensors in the 93-95 models use a 3 sensor system, 96-02 use a single sensor system. The connectors are physically different as well on 99-02 models.

2) All brackets and accessories. All the accessories are v6 and v8 specific except for the 3.4 A/C compressor which will interchange with the LT1 compressor.

3)LS1's require LS1 motor mounts and cross member. LT1's require LT1 motor mounts and cross member. Older v8's require v8 motor mounts and cross member.

4) Transmission and transmission mount. (All v8's require the use of a v8 transmission with the exception of the 4.3l V6, which is irrelevant with the Fbody) A v6 transmission will not bolt up to a v8.

5) V8 Gauges. You will need v8 gauges because the gauges will not read correctly when doing an LS1 swap. The v8 speedometer is also registered for 150 whereas the v6's are not.

6) V8 front springs. The added weight will cause the front of the car to sit lower and will reduce handling. The steering rack is also different to clear the oil pan and alternator.

7) Larger Radiator and Hoses. V8 engines use a larger radiator for cooling. (LT1's will require an LT1 specific radiator because they are reverse cooled) LT1's and LS1's use dual cooling fans. LS1 radiators also use an extra steam line on the RH tank. Early LS1's also have a low coolant sensor. The LS1's coolant hoses are in different locations. The AC hose is also different.

8) Fuel Pump assembly. While the v6 and v8 operate at the same PSI, the v8's use a higher volume.

9) Throttle system. The throttle cables need to be changes since the LS1 cable is mounted on the RH side. 99-02 3.8 equipped cars will require the addition of a mechanical accelerator pedal since they are electronic on the 3.8.

10) Exhaust. You will need the exhaust manifolds for the v8. There may be some custom exhaust work required.

--What's not required but you SHOULD change.

1)The drive shaft will work, they were interchangeable from 82-02 in the Fbody. This would be a great opportunity to upgrade to an aluminum 1 piece drive shaft. (Only a TH200 requires the changing of a drive shaft. The TH400 and T10 use a different yoke, requiring that to be changed.)

2) Rear end. Most v6's were equipped with open ended differentials, meaning only one wheel spins. It is a very good idea to upgrade to a limited slip rear end due to the extra power.

3) Brakes. Depending on the year of your car and what size and type of brakes you have, it may be in your best interest to upgrade to 4 wheel disc and larger brakes. The added weight of the new engine and the extra speeds capable will require more stopping power.

666_speed
07-27-2006, 06:46 PM
Removing the engine.

There are 2 obvious ways to remove the engine and transmission for an Fbody. 1. From the top. 2. From the bottom. Most will agree it's easier to remove the engine and transmission from the bottom.

--To remove the engine from the bottom

Get the car up in the air with some ramps and jack stands. Make certain that the car is stable and will not move!

--Steps
Remove hood. There are four 14mm
bolts that hold the hood on. You will also need to remove the hood struts, just pry the clips off with a screw driver.

Step 1 – LIFTING THE CAR

There are several ways to go about this, cherry pickers, jack stands, lifts, you name it, and it has been thought of and tried. Even jacking it up with the jacks on tires. For this particular thread, we will assume we have a lift accessible.

Step 2 – DISCONNECT THE BATTERY

Anytime work is being performed on your car, please disconnect the battery. Make sure you have the TheftLock code though or you will be riding around without tunes. This is done to ensure sparks or voltage doesn’t harm your electrical components.

Step 3 – DRAIN THE COOLANT

The coolant is the first fluid drained when removing the engine. If you will be tearing the engine down, you can also drain the oil. To drain the coolant, open the petcock valve on the lower passenger side of the radiator. FYI, GM uses a 50/50 mix of Dexcool and water.

Step 4 – REMOVE THE AIR LID, BELLOW, AND MAF

Unclip the air box clamps at the front end and loosen the last hose clamp, at the throttle body.

Step 5 – UPPER RADIATOR HOSES

Using a set of pliers, squeeze the two “tabs” or together and slide the clamp back towards the center of the hose about 3-4” will normally do. Be careful not to split your hoses when doing this. If you use a screwdriver, be gentle. I use a screwdriver on all 3 of my engine removals and did not damage a hose.

666_speed
07-27-2006, 06:48 PM
Step 6 – REMOVE THE THROTTLE CABLE

Use the radiator hook tool to push on the locking tan through the hole in the bracket. When the lock is released slide the cable up and out of the bracket.

Step 7 – UN-LOOP THE THROTTLE CABLE

Like the step says, un-loop the throttle cable form around the throttle body arm.

Step 8 – REMOVE THE FUEL LINE

This will require a special tool. Snap-On makes it, GM makes it, and I’m sure there are others. Pull the tool towards the driver’s side of the vehicle to release the “tangs” that hold it in place. Then, while pulling the fuel line, push the feed line to the passenger side but be careful, fuel pressure is on it and it will shoot fuel out,

Step 9 – REMOVE BRAKE BOOSTER HOSE

Simply remove the hose going to the brake booster.

Step 10 – The purge solenoid has a hose connection on it that you can remove by pinching it with your fingers. Wiggle and pull at the same time gently. Remove the coil wiring first to give your self some more time.

Step 11 – AIR SYSTEM

The AIR system is electronically actuated so remove the wiring connector by lifting the lock tang and pulling it off with your hand. Also remove the EGR valve control at this point in time as well.

Step 12 – ABS MODULE

A 13mm flare-nut wrench will allow you to remove the two brake lines from the ABS module. Push the lines towards the engine, they will drop with the engine. FYI there are some clips behind the sheetmetal that hold the brake lines to the frame near the exhaust. Remove the shield and pop the lines out of the clip.

Step 13 – BRAKE BOOSTER

Use an extension with a 15mm socket to remove the 2 15mm nuts holding the brake master cylinder to the booster. This allows you to access the 2 Torx 50 shock tower nuts located under the master cylinder. You may also be able to do this without removing the Booster but look at it first. Leave the other shock tower bolts in place until you get ready to lift the car off of the front cradle but do the 2 Torx now.

Step 14 – STEERING SHAFT

Use a 7/16 socket t remove the bolt holding the imtermediate steering shaft in place. There are 2 places to do this, I’ve done both and it hasn’t made much difference.

Step 15 – PLUGS ON THE PASSENGER SIDE

2 PCM Plugs – 2 7mm bolts hold these in place, the bolts won’t come out, they are nested in the PCM.
All of the smaller plugs around this
A/C clutch WOT override

666_speed
07-27-2006, 06:49 PM
Step 16 – REMOVE THE PCM MOUNT

Just remove the 2 hex-headed bolts that go into the shock towers.

Step 17 – FIREWALL WIRING

There are 2 bundles of wire coming from the interior of the car through a grommet on the lower portion of the firewall behind the passenger-side wheel housing. Remove the grommet carefully, carefully pull the wire into the engine bay, just enough to zip-tie the connectors to the engine bay. Don’t let them fall back in or you will have to start pulling stuff out of the interior.

Step 18 – AC COMPRESSOR

Start with the top two 15mm bolts on the a/c bracket. The bottom 2 15mm can be removed from under the vehicle, then swing the compressor and hoses connected to it towards the front of the car and hang or tie the compressor from a radiator support bracket. If you are using the radiator support bracket to lift the car, you might want to find somewhere else to tie it up.

Step 19 – STARTER

Now you remove the two 13mm hex headed bolts holding the starter into place. Unhook the wiring and try to remember where it all goes. Take a picture if needed.

Step 20 – CRANKSHAFT POSITIONING SENSOR

Slide a pick through the tang on the clip next to the engine then pry open while pulling on it. Remove the ground wire going to the block here and the o2 sensor pigtail going to the exhaust. All of this is in the same area.

Step 21 – OIL LEVEL SENSOR

Lift the tang on the oil level sensor and pull it off.

Step 22 – FRONT SWAY BAR

Some people may have already done this, but, unbolt the 4 13mm bolts holding the sway bar onto place. Let the sway bar hang on the engine cradle.

Step 23 – GROUND STRAPS

I cannot stress this enough. WATCH OUT for the many ground straps. Keep a lookout and make sure you don’t forget them or you will tear them while you drop the engine or lift the body.

Step 24 – ALTERNATOR

Use a 13mm socket to remove the “constant power” nut on the back of the alternator.

Step 25 –HYDRAULIC THROWOUT BEARING

The throw-out bearing has a quick-connect at the tranny. Use a radiator hook to push in on the Teflon release sleeve and pull to disconnect it from the transmission.

Step 26 – AUTO’S ONLY!!! SHIFTER CABLE

Now you remove the shifter cable from the transmission shift arm and the mount for it. Use the radiator hook to pull up on the lock pin in the cable housing to release the lock it has mounted. Also on the Auto’s, take the 3 15mm torque converter bolts accessible through the opening where the starter used to be.

Step 27 – Y-PIPE

If you have an ORY, simply unhook it and go. If you have a catted y, the exhaust on the back of the cats will need to be removed as well.

Step 28 – DRIVE SHAFT REMOVAL

Remove the U-joint bolt-on caps and slide the driveshaft forward slightly to release it from the pinion. If the rear-end is hanging at full droop clearance may be an issue. Pull it out. Simple.

Step 29 – TORQUE ARM BRACKET

Take the top bolt out on the trans-mounted torque-arm bracket and bend it so the bushing will barely clear the bracket. Time to earn it now. Work the torque arm towards the driver’s side of the vehicle. It is a “picky” deal, you will have to play with it for a little while but if you do it once, the next time won’t be as hard.

Step 30 – OIL PRESSURE SENDER

Now we disconnect the oil pressure sender at the back of the intake on top of the valley plate, Also disconnect the hose plugged into the manifold just below that.

666_speed
07-27-2006, 06:50 PM
Step 31 – SPEED SENSORS

Now we can remove the front wheel speed sensors. They are on the A-Arms frame mount for both front wheels.

Step 32 - MANUAL TRANSMISSION ONLY REMOVING THE SHIFTER

Un-snap the boot around the shifter, remove the 2 13mm bolts holding the shifter, and slide it on out. Afetrmarket shifters, you know what you gotta do.

Step – 33 LAST SHOCK TOWER BOLTS

Get whatever you are going to put the engine on under the car now, and put the suspension mounts down out of the wheelwells.

Step 34 – TRANSMISSION CROSSMEMBER

Remove the 4 15mm bolts holding the cross member.

Step 35 – START SLOWLY, EXPRESS SLOWLY, JACKING

Do this slowly so we can check it all out and not mess anything up.

Step 36 – STEERING ARM

As the cradle is being separated, wiggle the steering arm to separate the u-joint.

Step 37 - WATCH

Well, watch very closely. We don’t want to damage anything.

Step 38 – ENGINE CRADLE

Lower the vehicle down on the lift and remove the 3 18mm bolts from both sides of the cradle. 6 bolts in all..

Step 39 – LIFT

Lift the car over the engine.

This is what we are shooting for.

*This is the removal for an LS1 and should be similar on any 4th gen Fbody. Taken directly from another forum. Credit should be given to 2000_LS1 for that write up!

TIP: Before you swap in the new engine, with it still out of the car, is opportune time to do any modding to the engine that you want to. Cam, headers, whatever is much simpler without anything in your way!

666_speed
07-27-2006, 06:51 PM
Where to get these parts and approximate cost.

Junk yards are your best friend for finding these parts. Ebay and Fbody specific forum classifieds are a real good place to find these as well. Many of these components can be bought used and some you can get cheaper in package deals. Look to spend in the neighborhood of $5-$7,000 for an v6 to LS1 swap.

666_speed
07-27-2006, 06:54 PM
Useful Links.
http://www.tacreationsusa.com/how_to.htm
Feel free to post up more, I can't find the other links off hand....I hope this has helped atleast one person again.

stepho
07-28-2006, 02:12 AM
I would like to add that while it may be easier to take the engine and transmission out the bottom, if you are going to have the engine out for long periods of time I would recommand taking the engine out the top that way it can easily be rolled around without any extra work. Its not that hard to take one out the top anyway.

Countercheese
05-11-2007, 10:31 PM
i need some info on what i need for a gen3 3.8 liter swaped with a gen1 350 (got a 700r trany). I have a 99 camaro. Can i get conversion kits for the exhaust, what kind of motor mount do i need?

goldz28
05-11-2007, 10:53 PM
i need some info on what i need for a gen3 3.8 liter swaped with a gen1 350 (got a 700r trany). I have a 99 camaro. Can i get conversion kits for the exhaust, what kind of motor mount do i need?
Do you mean a 4 gen with a 3.8? 3 gen had a 2.8 I think.

2.2 Straight six
05-11-2007, 10:55 PM
3rd gens also came with 3.1s.

goldz28
05-11-2007, 11:26 PM
Oh yeah forgot about the 3.1

2.2 Straight six
05-11-2007, 11:46 PM
lucky you have me.

"2.2, Saviour of the Camaro Forum!"

Savage Messiah
05-12-2007, 12:22 AM
*sigh* V8 guys. 99 Camaro = 4th gen.

i need some info on what i need for a gen3 3.8 liter swaped with a gen1 350 (got a 700r trany). I have a 99 camaro. Can i get conversion kits for the exhaust, what kind of motor mount do i need?


No 4th gen F-body ever came with a Gen 3 3.8 engine. The gen 3s were on i believe 04 and newer cars... which ours didnt live to see. You've got a Gen 2 in there.


Regardless, swapping a Gen 1 SBC in there would be a wate of time, money and energy. If you want the performance... well, name an ET and I'll give you a roadmap there. If you want the sound of a v8, get an LT1.

94_firebird
07-09-2007, 01:28 AM
Ok so here is the deal. I have a 94 firebird and its given me nuthing but problems, ive gobe through 2 transmissions, 2 rear ends, 3 water pumps, blew my power steering and now the pully that held the pump on completely fell of and fucked up my belt, my car is stranded at my girlfriends house. I just bough a Pontiac 5.0 carburated from the 80s, and a 700r4 trans, it all is in very good condition and i picked it up for 150$ froma family friend.Whati need to know is basically everu thign i will need to be able to put this iin my firebird. i do not want to go fuel injected again and i want to completely get rid of the engie computer. i think illneed a new radiator, drive shaft, rear end, and engine mounts. But i dont know exactly what all i will need for this conversion. if any one knows of what all i will need andwear to find it please let me know as soon as possible thanks.

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