b16 vs mustang GT.................

both engines stock who would win?????

keeping in mind my civic only weighs 2500

Mustang unless it is auto then you might have a chance. Add new cams, Header, intake, exhaust, bored throttle body ported and polished intake manifold with a head that has been ported, polished, and had a valve job. You could easily beat a GT with those mods unless the GT has had work too. My suggestion do those mods, build the engine up, and then go turbo if you want to beat stangs, camaros and other various american cars. If you just want to rape up on the ricers don't do a thing :D .

Stang would win old or new

You talking about a drag race or around a real race track (like a road course)?

Joking aside I used to have an 88 GT I bought new (I bought the Honda after an idiot rear ended me totalling the Mustang).

I have driven B16 power also.

The Mustang would win.

On our local road course (Pacific Raceway..used to be SIR), the Mustang would win.

FYI: 88 Mustang GT vs Boss 302 of the pony car years.....within a 10th on the strip and spanked it on the road course.

The 5.0 may be a barbaric car but it is quick......and is really cheap to buy now they're floating around used.

Having said that my Honda is built much better and has given me much less trouble for the same amount of miles I've put on each.

yeah man the mustang's got it hands down, auto or manual. Even if yall were even on power I'd still have to give him the edge. rwd's are just plain better at stickin the power to the road.

I disagree with the same power the civic would stomp on the stang. Think about power to weight ratios, not to mention that honda engines are more efficient (most of the time) and loose less power when transfering that power to the wheels.... LSD of course. Though you can't get a four cylinder to put out the torque that and 8 does :eek:

Originally posted by QuickSilverEF9
I disagree with the same power the civic would stomp on the stang. Think about power to weight ratios, not to mention that honda engines are more efficient (most of the time) and loose less power when transfering that power to the wheels.... LSD of course. Though you can't get a four cylinder to put out the torque that and 8 does :eek:

We did not start with a 225 HP Civic for starters it was a stock B-16.

Other facts: Mustang has more torque......a lot more.

Mustang has LSD AND the drive wheels are at the correct end of the car for good acceleration from a standstill (that weight transfer thing).

Once again, I've driven both and the Mustang is faster hands down.

Yes i know the stang has LSD. However I have watched numerous videos and the thing I noticed was the torque steer in the corvettes and the mustangs pulling them to the left. (it may be the right). But as my friend explained who was building a hot rod... The 355 makes an amazing amount horsepower at the flywheel but by the time it hits the ground it has lost alot of the power through the drivetrain. Thats just what I have been told it may be false information but I can see how it makes sense. I just was on a site with a 4th gen civic that ran a 11.71 at 118mph in the 1/4 who had a b18a (130hp 118-121 ft torque) with a drag gen 3 turbo kit at 13psi. with a 5-9 horse power gain per pound of boost (thanks for that information ami :D ) his minimum horse power was 195hp his max was 247 hp. I would like to see the dyno to see the real numbers. They ran that with an unmodified transmission and an open differential site found here: http://d1profiles.tripod.com/joe.htm
(thanks to EF_LSVtec for that). What were the specifications on the new mustang GTs again? How much horse how much torque? To run the the low to mid to high 14s in the 1/4 mile? My friends mustang 5.0 handles like shit how do the newer ones handle?

my friend roger owner of a 88 CRX with short ram and an exhaust spanked the shit out of a mustang cobra...allegedly faster than a gt and he still has his stock si motor he beat the satnag by 3 car lengths and it wasnt due to the fact that the guy in the cobra being a bad driver b'cuz i had seen him earlier in the evening spankin up on a z28 maro and a mustang gt.

That could happen... Yeah if the engine was on crack..... Dude there is no way...

Crack wont help, I put a couple ounces in my gas tank and it didnt do sh*t. You know what else doesnt work: heroin, that does more harm than good actually, go figure. I havent tried ecstacy, if one of ya'll tries it mixed with your oil lemme know wat happens.

4th gen with a b16 goes like mid to low 15
88 and newer stangs go low 15 and better

but a lot all has to do with the driver
and a stang will take the civic out the hole and pull on the civic from there
Pio

Originally posted by 91hybridDX
my friend roger owner of a 88 CRX with short ram and an exhaust spanked the shit out of a mustang cobra...allegedly faster than a gt and he still has his stock si motor he beat the satnag by 3 car lengths and it wasnt due to the fact that the guy in the cobra being a bad driver b'cuz i had seen him earlier in the evening spankin up on a z28 maro and a mustang gt.

Either that stang was towing a house, or the guy in the CRX was the only one who thought they were racing...

I beat a 96 GT at the track with my B16 with just an exhaust.. He ran a 15.4 and I ran a 15.1, then we raced again and he ran a 15.5 and me a 15.3. :) Thats with full interior in my Civic with a sub, amp, some more speakers in the trunk and my 16" rims.. Stock timing too.

I've seen 5.0s at the track running high 15s, but I've yet to get to run a 90s style one. I'll be down there next weekend and I'll let you know if I get to race one.. I'm going for 14.7 next time I go down to the track with just an exhuast. :)

Internet stats aside, I KNOW I beat a mustang GT at the track twice in a row and I'm almost positive that when I get to race an older style with the 302 I'll probably win. (considering his motor is basically stock, like mine)

I live in hicktown Canada and my town is full of muscle cars.. I know I can tromp on my buddys Camaro with a 305 also.. I can beat him pretty bad. :smoka:

u guys must be buying some hurt ass b16's cuz roger runs a 15.8 with his si motor, and a guy in tulsa where the track is has a d16z6 swap runs a 14.6 and both only have intake and exhaustboth have crx si's rogers is a 88 and the other one is a 90

Originally posted by branman_crx_guy
Crack wont help, I put a couple ounces in my gas tank and it didnt do sh*t. You know what else doesnt work: heroin, that does more harm than good actually, go figure. I havent tried ecstacy, if one of ya'll tries it mixed with your oil lemme know wat happens.

ROFLMAO :D Best comeback ever! :D :D :D

Originally posted by darolh


We did not start with a 225 HP Civic for starters it was a stock B-16.

Other facts: Mustang has more torque......a lot more.


Interesting article on torque and VTEC engines here:
http://www.leecao.com/honda/vtec/commonmiss.html

(BTW - the original question was on stock engines, not modded. My money is on the Mustang - but I'm assuming it has a bent 8 similar to our V8 Ford Falcons and Holden Commodores which will spank any 950 kilo car with only 130-150bhp. )

An engine's crank torque is directly related to how much fuel/air is combusted per engine cycle. For normally aspirated engines, this means that increasing the displacement size will usually result in increased crank torque. For forced induction engines, the effective displacement is larger than the numerical displacement since the air is pre-compressed before it is forced into the engine. Unlike increased displacement or forced induction, the VTEC system optimizes engine breathing at high RPMs to increase power. Therefore, a VTEC engine's displacement is the smallest of the three methods of increasing power output. And since crank torque is limited by displacement, a VTEC engine's crank torque output is smaller compared to non-VTEC engines of similar power output level.

But this doesn't mean that a VTEC engine's HP is somehow worth less. In fact, Honda automobiles equipped with VTEC engines have performance numbers that agrees with the tried and true power-to-weight-ratio method of estimating acceleration performance. People hold this misconception because they have a fundamental lack of understanding of the relationship between crank torque, horse power, and acceleration. Crank torque by itself is meaningless in determining the engine's ability to accelerate the car. This is because the crank torque is multiplied by the gearing and final drive ratio before it is converted to forward thrust. And physics dictates that an engine putting out 160HP absolutely will provide more forward thrust than a 150HP engine, regardless of what crank torque the two engines have, assuming similar transmission efficiency and optimal gearing for both cars. This is plain high school physics. Unless someone can prove that the laws of thermodynamics and Newtonian physics are false, there is no way around this fact.

I know it is hard to accept it, but the Mustang would win. Just be satisfied knowing that his gas mileage sucked and that he paid way too much for his car... those are the only ways we can win in that kind of race.

Nice point Setanta... finally someone who grasps the physics of it all.

Ahhhhh enormous power through inefficientcy.....

screw all that science talk just race......:flipa:

he paid way too much for his car

I have very little respect for the v6 stang, but I gotta say 220 horses and 0-60 in 7 for $16,400 is a deal.

Originally posted by 91hybridDX
u guys must be buying some hurt ass b16's cuz roger runs a 15.8 with his si motor, and a guy in tulsa where the track is has a d16z6 swap runs a 14.6 and both only have intake and exhaustboth have crx si's rogers is a 88 and the other one is a 90

wow good times with the Z6 in a rex, while SIZ runs mid/low 15's in his b16civ...

i really, really cant believe that time..sorry man

beleive it cuz i got my ass kicked by him and he was kind enuff to show me under the hood after doing so

Originally posted by 91hybridDX
beleive it cuz i got my ass kicked by him and he was kind enuff to show me under the hood after doing so

I'd love to see timeslips for this too. 14.3 is what B16A4Me gets in his 700 kilo 3G Civic with B16A, header, exhaust and intake. I'm impressed that a heavier car with an engine that isn't as powerful can do those figures.

FYI, he has 92KW at the front wheels with the ECU messing up, no VSS and without the header... since then it's sorted to drop into the 14.3.

The car is stripped to the minimum... oh, and he has the timeslips to prove it :)

I was running mine with full interior too.. :) Next time I go back I'm going to take a bunch of stuff out like the seats and the stereo and stuff.. And put my steelies on the front and advance my timing.. I'm going for 14s for sure with a basically stock motor.

I'll scan the slips when I get them.. If its not raining next Friday I'll be going down almost for sure.

SIZ,

you the same guy that posts on clubSi Ontario forum?

just curious cuz i browse that shit and see the same user name..

Yep. Same guy. :)

Oh yeah....drag racing isn't really racing. You don't even work up a sweat. Try something with corners. You'll learn to appreciate what suspension is for then too...You'll also get some new driving skills that are useful on the street.

I have just stirred up a hornets nest for sure.

Originally posted by darolh
Oh yeah....drag racing isn't really racing. You don't even work up a sweat. Try something with corners. You'll learn to appreciate what suspension is for then too...You'll also get some new driving skills that are useful on the street.

I have just stirred up a hornets nest for sure.


i want to get into it but theres not that many spots in phila to run at plus ill need to get the car running and ready for that track
Pio

I OWN a D16 equipped CRX and there is no way in hell it'd pull a 14 second 1/4 with just the addition of an intake unless that intake has NOS plumbed in!!!!

is urs the d16z6? my friend roger with the si d16 runs 15.8 the guy in the town next to me is the one that runs 14.6 his is d16z6.

i just gotta say this but over here there is a stang with a supercharger on it, and boy is it fast. over here i seen a new stang race against a 93 civic si w/ b16 with intake, exhaust, flywheel, clutch and the stang won. but the stang did have an exhaust on it.

yeah and what do you mean drag racing isnt racing. its in the name drag RACING.

you know i always here all these times form people that seem just alittle too fast and they all say only a few part. yeah what they dont tell you is that they are on the bottle

Originally posted by darolh
Oh yeah....drag racing isn't really racing. You don't even work up a sweat. Try something with corners. You'll learn to appreciate what suspension is for then too...You'll also get some new driving skills that are useful on the street.

I have just stirred up a hornets nest for sure.

I'll use my civic and put it in perspective since my car i think most people can relate to. I also have a feeling we are not the only two that think this *looks for Setanta hehe* Its my racing vs. time vs. money theory.

Drag racing - Pretty easy and straight forward though if you bracket race yea things can get interesting do admit.
$ spent - 10 to 15 bucks lets say
Time spent - if your like me and you run low 16's, lets say you get 4 runs (you'll see why i used for in a sec), that rounds out to like a just over a full minuet of actual, in your car, racing.

Autocrossing - Speeds aren't as high as drag racing but now your rarely heading in a straight direction. Good bit more diffucult I should mention than drag racing.
$ spent - 15-20 bucks depending
Time spent - Alot of runs are around 40 seconds to a minuet long. So lets say 50 seconds...you get 4 runs. Thats a total time of about 200 seconds (in other words just over 3 mins) of race time in your car.

Road racing - Best of both worlds, the speeds can be faster than drag racing and the turns become more challenging when your not using something above 2nd gear like you do in a autox.
$ spent - 100 to 150...even 200 if the track is freaking grade A.
Time spend - 4 sessions....that are each 20 mins long. Thats 80 mins racing in your car. 1 race racing session is more seat time than a drag race and auto-x combined.

I used the # 4 because USUALLY when i'm drag racing its 4 runs, or autox its about 4 runs...or when i went road racing just happen to be 4 sessions on track. I've done all 3...and even though road racing was the most expensive...sweet lord is it fun, i'm currently trying to bring my car up to a level were i can track race more often and not worry about it. But i can also understand not everyone can road race/autox, and thats where i can see drag racing being a good thing cuz at least its off the streets. Also cost for me around here are as follows, $12 for drag racing, $20 for autocrossing (some places i can get in for $15), and road racing, the one course is really laid back its $100 , the new one they just built is like $135 but that still ain't bad IMO. So there you go folks...discuss.

I didn't even reply when I read that stupid post because I don't think it needs to be discussed.. I've said it time and time again.. There is skill involved in all of the above racing, different types, different game.

You're not going to change anyones mind about what they like doing, especailly by blurting out stupid comments that are only meant to stir up dust.

The thing I don't like about a lot of KIDS attitudes towards different racing is that a lot of really amauter people get in to road racing and stuff and get some sort of boost and they're immediatley better than anyone who likes drag racing.. Because its "So easy".. It doesn't really matter that he can only run 16.1 in his 00 Si or whatever, because he's a road racer... Drag racing is too "easy" to be taken seriously. It doesn't matter that they run a 1:30 on a track that takes everyone else 1:15 to do. No, as long as what he's in to is road racing, not that easy drag racing ish..

Ah.. Some people might see what I'm saying, some might not.. Just people need to chill when it comes to dissing a person for no reason at all other than to create negativity. Focus on yourself, not others around you.

Originally posted by slave
I OWN a D16 equipped CRX and there is no way in hell it'd pull a 14 second 1/4 with just the addition of an intake unless that intake has NOS plumbed in!!!!

Hiya Slave.

The US CRXs are very different to ours in all but shape. We got power steering, power windows, and a ZC/D16 standard. The US didn't and are a lot lighter for that reason. The PS sucks power off the engine.

So while I agree with your sentiment, I've been caught out thinking that the US cars are the same as ours.

The 4th way to add to Habib's list:

Go to your local go-kart rental track. Some of them are really good. I'm hooked up with a "group" that races each other in an informal league. Our local track has 9 horse karts that you can use if you qualify (by lap time in a 5.5 horse kart). It's interesting how slow a Civic feels when you get out of something that really pulls Gs in a corner.

Originally posted by SiZ
I didn't even reply when I read that stupid post because I don't think it needs to be discussed.. I've said it time and time again.. There is skill involved in all of the above racing, different types, different game.

You're not going to change anyones mind about what they like doing, especailly by blurting out stupid comments that are only meant to stir up dust.

The thing I don't like about a lot of KIDS attitudes towards different racing is that a lot of really amauter people get in to road racing and stuff and get some sort of boost and they're immediatley better than anyone who likes drag racing.. Because its "So easy".. It doesn't really matter that he can only run 16.1 in his 00 Si or whatever, because he's a road racer... Drag racing is too "easy" to be taken seriously. It doesn't matter that they run a 1:30 on a track that takes everyone else 1:15 to do. No, as long as what he's in to is road racing, not that easy drag racing ish..

Ah.. Some people might see what I'm saying, some might not.. Just people need to chill when it comes to dissing a person for no reason at all other than to create negativity. Focus on yourself, not others around you.

Nope. Just trying to spread the word that there's more fun in the world that sitting in you car for a 1/4 minute going straight.

As far as the kid thing goes, I'm probably old enough to be your dad.

Originally posted by SiZ
I didn't even reply when I read that stupid post because I don't think it needs to be discussed.. I've said it time and time again.. There is skill involved in all of the above racing, different types, different game.

You're not going to change anyones mind about what they like doing, especailly by blurting out stupid comments that are only meant to stir up dust.

The thing I don't like about a lot of KIDS attitudes towards different racing is that a lot of really amauter people get in to road racing and stuff and get some sort of boost and they're immediatley better than anyone who likes drag racing.. Because its "So easy".. It doesn't really matter that he can only run 16.1 in his 00 Si or whatever, because he's a road racer... Drag racing is too "easy" to be taken seriously. It doesn't matter that they run a 1:30 on a track that takes everyone else 1:15 to do. No, as long as what he's in to is road racing, not that easy drag racing ish..

Ah.. Some people might see what I'm saying, some might not.. Just people need to chill when it comes to dissing a person for no reason at all other than to create negativity. Focus on yourself, not others around you.

I agree with Siz. Drag racing easy??? Try driving a 300+ hp honda or any car with high horsepower and u come and tell me if drag racing is "easy". Thats so stupid for ppl to say. Look at Lisa Kubo and Ed Bergenholtz and Stephan Papadakis. Once they're done they are gasping for air. Have you seen the funny cars drag? Those things be running 3's man! Tell me if thats easy. I know its not a honda but i'm tryin to make a point by sayin drag racing is not easy. You have to learn how to launch perfectly and learn how to handle it perfectly!

Oh mustang would win SOMETIMES. My friend had a b16 4th gen hatch and he barely JUST barely beat him. He had a stripped interior though.:)

LOL, the never ending debate of straight line vs. corners. you know, that really is a "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" kinda thing. of course people who like to drift are gonna not understand what is the fun in going a straight line. people who like to 1/4 mi. are there to shave sec. off their times, not drive in circles. it's like apples and oranges...both fruit but very different. they are both racing but require different skills.

all i'm trying to say is maybe we should try and learn new skills from eachother...and other possible set-ups for the 4th gen...rather than sit here and debate something that will be going as long as "tastes great"...."less filling" :licker:

ami

Originally posted by Setanta


Hiya Slave.

The US CRXs are very different to ours in all but shape. We got power steering, power windows, and a ZC/D16 standard. The US didn't and are a lot lighter for that reason. The PS sucks power off the engine.

So while I agree with your sentiment, I've been caught out thinking that the US cars are the same as ours.

Fair point, I sit corrected, Id stand but Im too lazy!

well...this is sorta funny, but since I'm not one to go and get people all bent outta shape i'll explain where i'm comming from a bit. Siz, you made alot of valid points (espically for someone who wasn't even gonna reply to that post ;) j/k). As far as drag racing? yes, to me I still see it as easy for the most part. Last year before i ran everyone said i should run a avg of 16.5, and low and behold i got down to that withing 3 runs. But now i'm actaully finding myself trying to get better reaction times ( .542 is my best), DEFINALLY better 60'fts, and this friday I might enter a bracket race just for shits to see how i do. So yea there IS skill involed i NEVER said there wasn't any, just that when i wasn't missing 2nd gear trying to race a IS300 (different story) to me I saw drag racing as easy.

You see i don't have a 300hp+ honda, fuck i've never even been in one...I don't even see myself in the same league as people who do that sorta stuff and to me i DO respect them as racers. But since my civic makes a wonderful 91.5hp to the wheels...and west PA is full of close minded fuckers (usually V8 drivers and some riceboys) who constantly think its drag racing or bust. Hell even the local track rips on anyone who autocrosses or road races for no reason on their radio advertisments. So when I get sorta in a uproar over something other than drag racing...try to understand why. As my car sits the chances of ME beating a mustang in a line are slim to none. But as far as most any other forum of racing, yea i've beat more than my share.

Anywho, I didn't come here to change anyones mind, just to show them there is more to life if they so desire. As for being a amature kid, I'm 21 and i have been racing (from drag to track racing) for more than 3 years so take that as you will. Again not tryin to pick a fight, but thats how things are around here and i'm just a bit sick of it.

btw, mellowboy...when did the FWD cars hit 3's? lol less you were just makin a point which is cool with me. Isn't the fastest at like low 8's right now? Oh...and for those who think a god drag racer and a good autocrosser can't exist in the same body. A local kid had a 12 or 11 second sentra he drag raced with for a long time, someone talked him to just TRY the car at autocrossing....turns out the kid freakin rocked at that too (in his 12 second FWD car mind you lol). Damnit...I ranted again...ok enough of fighting..peace-




P.S. to Darhol - yea...screw your go karts (lol j/k karts rock), i'm goin rallying later this month in my friends 1st gen teg muhahahahaha beat them apples ;)

Habib.. You should know that my post wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the other guy who made a post for the simple point of creating contraversy. :rolleyes:

Darolh - If you're old enough to be my dad then step up to the plate and act like it. Age is but a number. Making a post for the sole purpose of pissing someone off is sheerly idiotic.

"Can you feel the love tonight...." :devil:

Racing is fun.

Straight line is fast but demanding.

Corners is fast and demanding.

Racing is fun

:frog:

I think that sums this thread up :)

Originally posted by habib_88



btw, mellowboy...when did the FWD cars hit 3's? lol less you were just makin a point which is cool with me. Isn't the fastest at like low 8's right now?

No i didn't mean the fwd. The funny cars that have to run by alcohol fuel runs 3's. Well you did get my point rite? I wasn't dissing on autocrossing at all. I'm gonna try that as soon when my energy suspension kit comes in. I'm just sayin that drag racing isn't easy as ppl think it would be. :)

The fastest quarter miles in the world are mid 4's at 330. These are the double "a" fuelers or rail cars. They run 4.40s-4.50s. The funny cars run 4.60s-4.70s. The times I listed are the very fastest they have run. And I would have to say that both drag racing and road racing demand alot of skill and car setup.