Whats wrong with the B18A swap?

I've had my 88 Civic Std for several years and it's ready for a transplant.

I was wondering why I don't see anyone ever recommend the B18A as a good choice for a swap.

I'd also like to say hi to everyone since this is my first post here.

I dunno, if I was going to go b18, I would go b18C, but then again, I dont know that much, wait till someone like ladynredsi replies.

b18a isn't a well promoted motor thats all i think it was an american spec motor so most people have a harder time getting it or selling it b/c it is not jdm. thats all i can think of. the real question is why doesn't anyone do the b17a!!! hehe thats a rare motor:D

what car is the b17 out of?

Depends on what you want...I opted for a B18b because at first I wanted turbo and B18a/b would be an ideal motor for that set up and the torque and reliability of just running it stock temporarilly is more fun than a B16a. Then when I realized I cannot get this set up to pass smog, I bought a GSR head and went to an LS/Vtec all motor set up. I could have gone and gotten me a B20 but I cannot use the Type R pistons that I already have and if I get aftermarket pistons, I would risk not passing smog. My goal is to have an all motor, 12-13 sec, daily commuter car. If you just want to run stock with just the normal i/h/e and do 14'2 to mid 15's in an EF, then I would suggest a B20.:flash:

I was attracted to the B18A because both my car and the engine are non OBD. Plus, with 121lb-ft of torque it should be pretty quick in my Std. civic HB.

EF_LSVtec,
Why couldn't you get a B18A/turbo setup to pass smog?

Melt,
what car is the b17 out of?
It's out of the 92-93 Integra GS-R in the US Market Only. It produces 160hp/117lb-ft torque.

A local shop that does swaps told me that I'd be more happy with a B18A than with the B16A. I hope that's true because I just bought one.

Nothing is wrong with a b18a. Alot of ppl are so hooked up on v-tec and they just don't care about the ls motors. Fuckin ricers! LOL. Anyways like Ef said b18a is a good motor for turbo charging. Its seems like the engine is turbo prepped already. As for spy54, the reason is that ppl don't go b17 is because it is RARE to find and they probably don't wanna waste there time looking for one. I personally like the b16a better than any other b series. Not because i have one, is because its just a good choice to go all motor. The head flow is much better than the gsr motor so when ppl go Ls v-tec they get the jdm first gen b16 head on there. If anything go with the b18a. Its cheaper and its also a good motor to go FI.:)

are you sure that the b16a wont pass smog?:rolleyes:

I was going to get a Drag 3 turbo and build the motor too but feedback from friends and my mechanic says, if cop sees your intercooler, they can easily pull you over and send you to a local referree which would be a total hassle. Drag 3 turbo is not CA emission legal and I wouldnt go with a Greddy. So decided to go all motor with type R internals...I figured Type R is emissions friendly and my chances of passing is favorable.

Is there anyone here that has done a B18A swap into an 88 or 89?
I'm curious to see what other modifications can be done to increase power and torque.

Originally posted by arch5
Is there anyone here that has done a B18A swap into an 88 or 89?
I'm curious to see what other modifications can be done to increase power and torque.

You can do as much to it as you can. U can increase power easily. Changing cams , doin the whole upgrade valvetrain, ignition upgrades, changing pistons , or if your looking at more torque get a stroker kit. It'll increase your stroke of your crank. Its not cheap though. It just depends on what set up you want.

Originally posted by EF_LSVtec
I could have gone and gotten me a B20 but I cannot use the Type R pistons that I already have :

Why wouldn't the type r pistons fit on a b20? I've heard some ppl did that set up before adding type r pistons in there b20.

wait till 91zc comes on here. He did a b16A into a 91 DX sedan

Why wouldn't the b16a be good to turbo? Because thats just what I plan on doing. It won't be turbo for a year but its all good.

For a good turbo set up, you need displacement and low compression engine...B16 has a higher compression compared to B18a/b or B20Z and lower displacement...but a turbo B16a is better than any stock B series motor...except for the type R, I'd rather have a Type R motor than a stock B16 w/ a turbo...just enough power without the trouble of turbo.

Won't it be harder to find a low mileage b18a though? I plan to redo the whole bottom and top ends before turbo. I am going with the F-Max setup that comes set at 9psi then I will set it to 11-14psi. I want to be up to around 240-250 horse not much higher than that. My goal is just to be able to give any import a run for its money and at least keep up with a camaro or stang.

thats what I did...bought a bare oil stricken B18a for $150. Cleaned it up and took to machine shop to get bored, honed etc...Came out brand spankin new and I still have my 97 LS in my car...no downtime at least.

So you think b18a rebuilt and with new bottom end setup would be the best bet?

Here's an old site that got me thinking of a turbo set up... http://d1profiles.tripod.com/joe.htm
Stock internals b18a with Drag 3 turbo and upgraded injectors doing 11 sec...

well, not really...If given a choice I'd go with a B20...exact same size block, head as b18a/b just bigger pistons and different intake manifold.

The b20 is a more difficult swap though.... Isnt it? What about a LS VTEC turbo? See at first I was set on ZC turbo then I found a realistic price on a b16a swap.. But I plan to go turbo and if that isn't going to be the best choice then I really need to research again. I was planning on swapping in type R pistons with a .25 overbore then adding .25 overbore sleves, forged rods (or type R rods), new head gasket and rings. Anyone know what compression the type R pistons are. They are forged so I thought the could withstand forced induction better. What do LS VTECs run in the 1/4 mile with mild mods? I might just go NA if LS VTECs can easily hit low 13s.

By the way I just saw the pictures of your car.. You got any more? HAve you decided what lip you are going to buy yet? Are we going to do a group buy? I want my lip when I finish my front conversion :D . I am ordering that tuesday... :hehe:. Should I expect to pay around $600 to have the conversion peices painted my rear bumper painted and my mirrors painted? What tires are you rolling on those look JDM style and go well with your car. I couldn't get away with that on mine.

B18 is a very good swap.. The only reason I went with a B16A is because its only a few hundred dollars more.. The B16 is faster and has a better tranny, but B18A in a hatch would be no slouch either.

A lot of people downtalk them because they don't come with the beloved VTEC, but then again most people saying that either have so much money they don't value the dollar, or they roll around with a D15A with an intake and exhaust and do all their racing on the internet and city streets. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by EF_LSVtec
For a good turbo set up, you need displacement and low compression engine...

Thats not always true. Theres ppl out there with high compression turbos running 11's but with low boost. You only lower the compression just to make it boost happy. If it was me i would rather have a high compression turbo then a low compression turbo. Anyways back to my other question u still haven't answered yet...why wouldn't the type r pistons fit in the b20?

Well I am impressed with the torque and results given from the b18a. I really want to thank arch5 for opening my eyes. I can save money on the swap and use it towards going turbo. Now all I have to do is find one with low milage.

Originally posted by QuickSilverEF9
Now all I have to do is find one with low milage.

Are you planning to build it up? If so then who care about finding one with low mileage. I think its cheaper to get a bare b18 block and start building it from there by replacing with aftermarket parts. Same goes with the head. Well good luck man.:)

B20 uses bigger diameter pistons...and type R pistons and other B-series pistons are cast and not forged, to answer another question from someone here.
And about the high compression turbo...I'm sure its possible and you're right about boosting low w/a high compression motor...but doesnt that defeat the purpose of boosting? You want to boost more for power and if you cant because of high compression, then shouldnt you build a low compression motor so you can boost it up more?:flash:

Thanks! Well I don't want to rebuild the transmission. So really all I need to do is find a low milage tranny. All b-series trannies will work right? I really want the LSD.

Yes, all B-series trannies are interchangeable...and good luck finding a good cable LSD tranny...I've been searching for one in a while now too...:)

Originally posted by EF_LSVtec

And about the high compression turbo...I'm sure its possible and you're right about boosting low w/a high compression motor...but doesnt that defeat the purpose of boosting? You want to boost more for power and if you cant because of high compression, then shouldnt you build a low compression motor so you can boost it up more?:flash:

Ok like i said you don't have to lower your compression you can keep it stock of go a lil higher. Its all with the rite tuning and a/f . When you lower ur compression your is slow on the bottom end and when you have high compression turbo then your car will take off and have the high end power at the same time. Trust me theres guys out there EVEN with type r motor turbos running 12's on a stock bottom end. :)

Originally posted by QuickSilverEF9
Thanks! Well I don't want to rebuild the transmission. So really all I need to do is find a low milage tranny. All b-series trannies will work right? I really want the LSD.

I was talkin about rebuilding the engine.:)

Hahaha...

what is this, a 2 man show? LOL

Well, now its a trio, thanks to you...How you been Melt?:)

Hey fellas...JDMCivic.com is having a mini meet tomorrow at 10am in Milpitas...(Krispy Kreme), Rengstorf exit off of 101...

really......hmmm.... you going?

I hope to do a engine swap with a turbo around may or so. Have to save up:) Now I'm not sure
what I should go with because I have seen sir civic's been beaten by ls engines to 100km/h or
so. But after that the vtec kicks in and the sir pulls away. If I do go with an ls I will
put on turbo and hope with the bigger displacement the ls will perform better then the sir.
And I can always put on a vtec head later as well. And I don't really want to go with B18c
because I'm told their quite pricey. Anyone have any ideas?

Originally posted by SiZ
B18 is a very good swap.. The only reason I went with a B16A is because its only a few hundred dollars more.. The B16 is faster and has a better tranny, but B18A in a hatch would be no slouch either.

A lot of people downtalk them because they don't come with the beloved VTEC, but then again most people saying that either have so much money they don't value the dollar, or they roll around with a D15A with an intake and exhaust and do all their racing on the internet and city streets. :rolleyes:

The B16a isn't faster. The torque of the B18a/b makes up for the Hp gap. From my experiences the b18b has almost always won.

I would mate the b16a with the Ls tranny because the B18a/b has better ratios for drag. But I guess it depends on which tranny, because I would rather have LSD even though the ratios may not be as good.

I've heard/seen how B18a/b turbo perform and its quick...but recently found out and read about B20 turbo and its night and day...I've heard nothing but good things about it...check it out maybe you'll change your mind too like I did...:flash:

Is b18b JDM? and b18a USM? Are there any major differences other than emissions? I haven't been finding many resources on the b18 a/b. A complete swap with everything replaced and new fluids on the b18a is $2800. :D . It is easier to push more horsepower out of an engine than to push more torque so I would rather go with the engine that is mildly lower in horsepower and much higher in torque. In these honda engines 10-15 lbs extra makes alot of difference.

I hope to do a engine swap with a turbo around may or so. Have to save up:) Now I'm not sure
what I should go with because I have seen sir civic's been beaten by ls engines (because of their
torque)to 100km/h or so. But after that the vtec kicks in and the sir pulls away. If I do go with an ls I will
put on turbo and hope with the bigger displacement the ls will perform better then the sir.
And I can always put on a vtec head later as well. And I don't really want to go with B18c
because I'm told their quite pricey and a little less torque. Anyone have any comments?

B18a 90-93 model, not sure if there's an earlier model than 90...
B18b 94 and up

yeah, i'm going...

Any performance differences between the two?

130 HP for the B18a
140 HP for the B18b

here's more info... http://www.ff-squad.com/EngineSpecs1.htm

with the b18a there are 2 different specs on it. 90-91 b18a is 130hp and the 92-93 b18a is 140hp. supposedly cause of different cams or something.

and ive seen b18as and b16s go head to head and the b16 beat but not by that much. torque is good but torque is only good at the beginning of the race, after that it doesnt mean anything. like someone said before, once it hits vtec its gone.

one time i threw my b18a ecu into my friends b16a, and it really sucked without the vtec, it felt slow, you probably about the same as a b18a.

the b18a is a good engine but the rod ratio just is a killer. i would turbo a b16a just so i wouldnt have to worry as much about putting a cylinder through the wall. plus i love the sound of high revving motors. but i am going b18a not by choice but because of the price i can get it. if i had a choice i would turbo a b16a

I will probably go LS-VTEC turbo. I thought the walls were thinner on the b16a and there was more room for boring on the b18s.... How is b16a just a lil more? I find $1500-2300 more alot more.. Now $500 thats not much more. B18a is supposidly a stronger engine though.. It is better for turbo because of the compression, the displacement, and the internals. There is a b18a turning a 11.71 on 13psi with stock internals........ 7200 redline isnt bad plus I would have it ported and polished... http://www.jgenginedynamics.com/cylinderheads. Type R pistons and rods...... I don't see what would be wrong with that set up.......

Originally posted by 91HBSi


The B16a isn't faster. The torque of the B18a/b makes up for the Hp gap. From my experiences the b18b has almost always won.



Do you know what you're talking about at all, or are you just gathering that information from what you "know" from internet webboards like this one.. :rolleyes:

Check out a website called CRX Resource.. There is a guy on there who has two CRXs, one with a B16A and one with a B18B. Ask him wich is faster.... OR, just compare the torque numbers, tell me that you know more about it than me and go on assuming you're right.

Originally posted by SiZ


Do you know what you're talking about at all, or are you just gathering that information from what you "know" from internet webboards like this one.. :rolleyes:

Check out a website called CRX Resource.. There is a guy on there who has two CRXs, one with a B16A and one with a B18B. Ask him wich is faster.... OR, just compare the torque numbers, tell me that you know more about it than me and go on assuming you're right.

Well, I don't have videos of the races if that's what your asking. I know some people who have done the swaps into 5th gen civics and I have seen them race several times. I know It depends on driver, but the B18 came out on top overall. There are several determining factors such as condition of engine, milage, etc. and I am aware of that.

So you "know" what you know from internet sites, I really don't care. I was just stating what I have seen, you know in real life... not what I have read. Looks like you are the one assuming.

I assume nothing.

I drive a B16 hatch every day. I've pounded modded LS tegs time and time again, and I can smoke my friends LS powered 92 CX all the time too.

Sorry, it just doesn't make sense. Sure, the LS motor has a little more torque, but the B16 has 20 more HP and a better geared tranny. If you do drive a modified car I'm sure you realize how much of a difference 20 HP is...

I think a b18a with a b16a LSD tranny and a prepared head would spank a b16a with common mods don't you?

Originally posted by SiZ
I assume nothing.

I drive a B16 hatch every day. I've pounded modded LS tegs time and time again, and I can smoke my friends LS powered 92 CX all the time too.

Sorry, it just doesn't make sense. Sure, the LS motor has a little more torque, but the B16 has 20 more HP and a better geared tranny. If you do drive a modified car I'm sure you realize how much of a difference 20 HP is...

The b18b in an integra isn't going to do much. I have beaten them when I had a stock d16a6 in my car.

I am just stating what I have seen. It depends on what tranny you are using. THe Ls tranny has pretty good gearing. There are several different trannys that are available with the b16a also. Some of those trannys are geared higher, there isn't much difference but every little bit accounts for something.

Ok...lets see you smoke my B18b (JDM 4-1 header, lightened flywheel, AEM CAI, HKS exhaust) with a B16 tranny in an EF, with your D16a6 or even w/ your B16a...

Killed:

2000 Si (1/4 mile and Freeway)
94 Teg GSR (by a fender)
92 CX w/B16a ( CAI, Apexi exhaust) 1/4 mile
90 VW Jetta 16valve (header, exhaust, overbored TB, cams) 1/4 mile
92 Stang 5.0 (Traffic light to traffic light) 1st to top of 3rd gear, Car and a half
95 Audi A4 (Freeway racing going over 125 mph) he probably just chickened out...buck buck

B16a is over rated...I'm not saying its a bad motor compared to the B18a/b...to me, they're like apples and oranges. B16a is good all around motor except for the tad less torque. B18a/b can hold itself, but...Ok I admit it, doesnt really compare to a B16...Fully built B16a vs Fully built B18a/b...hands down I'd say, B16a...But few reasons why people choose to get a B18 because, 1. its cheaper (parts cheaper too) 2. Torque is appreciated more because of our damn speed limit...Who the hell wants an expensive Vtec engine that kicks in high gear, when you can only drive 65 mph... 3. Way powerfull than a B16 when turbo'd (I'm talking stock motor here)

EVERYONE HAPPY? I know I am...:flash:

yeah go lsvtec. that would kick ass. nowadays everyone and there moms have b16s. not too much guys have ls vtecs. that reminds me cause last night i was racing and my friend in a 92 cx w/ sohc vtec raced this 4th gen supposedly wiht a b16 but i think he didnt have a b16 and was on the bottle. nowadays everyone and there moms are on the bottle too

lol yeah... I am talking to 2 motorshops and they are going to call me when they get a integra in to do a swap so I can buy the motor cheap :). Buy it cheap I can get the Redline cylinder head job done to it and put new pistons and rods... Weisco turbo pistons and eagle forged rods... have it rebuilt replace what needs to be replaced. Have a engine ready to turbo with about $2500 into it. The shop said if I am willing to wait most people who do the swaps leave their engines with them so they could give me a great deal or give it to me free because I am paying all the labor and other parts. How would LS VTEC respond to turbo?

Originally posted by civickiller
nowadays everyone and there moms have b16s.

AMEN to that! lol, you guys probably wonder why i stayed out of this one. i don't get into to many street races. but when i do, it's simply for the kicks i get from their shock. now i'm not gonna pull no 8 seconds with my sohc vtec. however, after i go turbo...i'm gonna go out and play :evillaugh

you know what i think? 4 pages of talk and no proof. somebody show me the dyno sheet! show me timeslips! somebody has to have proven info posted on the net somewhere....inquiring minds want to know

Now a day everybody and their moms say everybody and their moms! I hate that damn saying! Everybody and their MOMS say it! What about their DADS????? :smoker2:

I'm back...nobody says DADS because Dads are smart enough not to get a B16, lol... Anyway, quicksilveref9 and everyone looking for a good turbo set up...check out www.importbuilders.com they're based in So. Cal and I've heard nothing but good things about his motors...And Ms. Ami, about the proof, I'm still working on it...Its difficult to get actual proof being just a road warrior...you know, freeway driving, traffic light racing...But when I get my new motor running, I'll definitely post my dyno sheets...Also...I met this local EF'er and he's trading me his spare jdm B16 for my usdm front end that's sitting in my garage...Yeah, baby! Now I'll have 2 LSVtec motors, one with a GSR and one with a B16 head...:flipa:

Originally posted by EF_LSVtec
Ok...lets see you smoke my B18b (JDM 4-1 header, lightened flywheel, AEM CAI, HKS exhaust) with a B16 tranny in an EF, with your D16a6 or even w/ your B16a...

I said that I have take INTEGRAS with b18b's, not civics with modified b18b's! I think you guys hear what you want to hear :licker: I have beaten Integras w/ b18b's and slightly modified ones. A civic with a B18b is a totally different story.

EF_LSVTEC from your experience how much do you think it will cost for me to build a ls vtec? What do you need 2 ls vtecs for?! Sell me one... lol jk I know you probably wouldn't.