D16A6 block swap with a D16A1 Block

I have a 1990 crx si. I recently had the engine built into a mini me. I kept the D16A6 Block with transmission. Put a P28 reprogramed ECU and put a brand new ported and polished Y8 Vtec head on it. Ran good for a couple of months, Then decided to start knocking the other day. My compression was still at 150psi so i know the valves were good. I broke the #3 piston rod. I bought a salvaged 89 Integra from a guy and yanked the motor out. I need to know from the best knologed person on here If I can take the D16A1 Block and use it in my crx. I know the Y8 head will work on it but will I be running into further problems?

nope the d16a1 is a dohc engine. will not fit. I know theres a guy who did it, but the time and money invested was just stupid. and from the pictures i saw he had oil all over his engine bay.

^ Yup, I posted a link to it (from Honda-tech) over here a few month ago. You should look for a D16Y7 or Y8 block.

yeah that wont work at all. sorry dude.

I have a 1990 crx si. I recently had the engine built into a mini me. I kept the D16A6 Block with transmission. Put a P28 reprogramed ECU and put a brand new ported and polished Y8 Vtec head on it. Ran good for a couple of months, Then decided to start knocking the other day. My compression was still at 150psi so i know the valves were good. I broke the #3 piston rod. I bought a salvaged 89 Integra from a guy and yanked the motor out. I need to know from the best knologed person on here If I can take the D16A1 Block and use it in my crx. I know the Y8 head will work on it but will I be running into further problems?

Even if you could get it to work, you're going to need to get custom fabricated mounts because a D16a1 block will never mount into and EF chassis. It shares alot of things with a ZC, but the mounts are completely different.

Even if you could get it to work, you're going to need to get custom fabricated mounts because a D16a1 block will never mount into and EF chassis. It shares alot of things with a ZC, but the mounts are completely different.

OK i know I was told about the mounts. No biggy, We can make some mounts. What about the transmission? Which axels do I use? Or can I not use my si or integra axels. Im not using the head. Im going to use my Y8 head on it...Help from everyone on here would be great...

Good luck bolting the Y8 head onto the D16A1! The bolt hole closest to the distributor is about 1/4" out of alignment. There's not enough room in the head to elongate the bolt hole and retapping the block half way through another hole is just a bad idea.

The only tranny that directly bolts up the the D16A1 is the '86-'89 Integra tranny. You can use your SI tranny but you will need to elongate one of the bolt holes, then tap and helocoil one of the holes under the starter just so you can mount the starter.

The Integra D16A1 is different from all other D-series motors, not much from an 88+ Honda D-series motor is interchangeable with a D16A1. When I built a D16A1 for my '86 CRX I played around with the idea of modifying another head to fit, it didn't work. I found that once you decide to go with a D16A1, you're pretty much stuck with stock D16A1 parts.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but it would be alot easier to just pick up another d16A6 block. Besides, do you know how high your compression ratio will be if you did manage to get the Y8 head on the A1 block!!!

You didn't understand us correctly. It doesn't matter if you're using your stock head or the Y8 head, it's not going to work. They (D16A6/Y8/etc and D16A1) are 2 different types of D-series engines, and are not compatible like that.

You didn't understand us correctly. It doesn't matter if you're using your stock head or the Y8 head, it's not going to work. They (D16A6/Y8/etc and D16A1) are 2 different types of D-series engines, and are not compatible like that.

ok thats all i needed to know. I wasnt trying to push things with that engine. As long as I had more then a couple of answers I know that there isnt a way to use it..... My biggest issue was that I spent the money on getting the car, yanked the motor out and now stuck with out a clue of finding another block with good pistons.. Im mainly disposing my a6 block because I know the cylinder walls are going to be a mess when I take the head off. The people before me had abused this block before I changed the other parts. I just need to start over with the engine but like I said finding a a6 block will be like looking for a needle in a hay stack. Im probobly just going to use a d15 block and just work it from there

bottom line just dont mess with that sertain setup. go for another or just a complete y8 block with your head and put them together or just put the teggy motor back together.

I didnt take the integra motor apart. its still together sitting at the shop. I dont have the money for that y7 or y8 engine. Im trying to do what I cant with what I have. i dont have a whole lot of help nor money to out put on this project. Its my dailey driver and pretty much stuck.

OK i know I was told about the mounts. No biggy, We can make some mounts. What about the transmission? Which axels do I use? Or can I not use my si or integra axels. Im not using the head. Im going to use my Y8 head on it...Help from everyone on here would be great...

are you fucking serious? what are you trying to do here man? The cost of machine work for getting the head to work on that block, and making custom mounts, along with all the other custom crap you're going to need is the price of a B series swap. Don't even bother man. You're not going to make any power with that setup. After all, it's just a 1.6 block. Just get a sohc 1.6 block. Seriously man.

You don't have enough money? Then your are participating in the wrong sport man. If you need something reliable then just put the d16a1 motor back in the integra and drive it like that. It doesn't matter how much money you put into a single cam setup, it's NEVER going to be fast by todays standards. Turbo is the only way to even make small amounts of power out of sohc motors.

I Found out that it will be a direct fit and that i can use my Si transmission so thanks for the help. i ended up talking to a guy at JKmotorsports and he has done it before and i also found a friend who said he has seen it done. the only mount that is a little off is the back motor mount which is no problem. i was just trying to find out if anyone had done this before but since i have found a few friends that have i will have them help me out. Plus the integra was totaled and it was a friends so we pulled the motor. Who said i was in a sport i have a CRX witha mini-me setup which was done before i got it and now it has a cracked piston or rod. i also found out that i can use the Y8 head on it but im not goin to do that im goin to keep it a DOHC.

what is a direct swap? the teg motor? it should be just put your mounts on it and the si tranny will be the best for it. i think you already said this but yeah to teg axels work fine and i think that is all. the wiring will be different a little dont sweat it tho its just taking 2 wires from the dizzy plug and putting them to the cam algel sensor on the a1's head. simple. oh and the dizzy plug needs to be square not rounds like the si one is. let me know if you need to know any more

what is a direct swap? the teg motor? it should be just put your mounts on it and the si tranny will be the best for it. i think you already said this but yeah to teg axels work fine and i think that is all. the wiring will be different a little dont sweat it tho its just taking 2 wires from the dizzy plug and putting them to the cam algel sensor on the a1's head. simple. oh and the dizzy plug needs to be square not rounds like the si one is. let me know if you need to know any more

Yes thats the responce I was waiting to here... Thank you... I thought maybe everyone was just about to be against what I was going to head for... I was thinking of making a mini me out of it but I knew something just wouldnt be right. But I was sticking to putting the whole engine in, in the first place.. Ok as long as I can re use my si tranny that works better... The si axles are new so I might just keep those as well, Not really sure how the integra axels are.. But thank you for the positive feed back :bigthumb:

I Found out that it will be a direct fit and that i can use my Si transmission so thanks for the help. i ended up talking to a guy at JKmotorsports and he has done it before and i also found a friend who said he has seen it done. the only mount that is a little off is the back motor mount which is no problem. i was just trying to find out if anyone had done this before but since i have found a few friends that have i will have them help me out. Plus the integra was totaled and it was a friends so we pulled the motor. Who said i was in a sport i have a CRX witha mini-me setup which was done before i got it and now it has a cracked piston or rod. i also found out that i can use the Y8 head on it but im not goin to do that im goin to keep it a DOHC.

It won't be a direct fit. I don't know what your "friends" are smoking...but a D16A1 has NEVER been a direct fit. The mounts will NOT line up. The lower alternator bracket is going to sit on the axle. There's no way around that. The motor will never work man, and the head will NOT just bolt right on. I'm trying to save you ALOT of work. But, you'll find out when you go to put that head ont he D16a1 and see how GREAT it lines up.
Honestly, I'm thinking that they are thinking that you are talking about a Dohc ZC motor, which is NOT the same as a D16a1.
Even if you want to keep it dohc...it won't bolt up.
Besides, that motor has so little power it's not even funny. It feels like a sohc non vtec motor. Even if SOMEHOW you could get the motor to fit in there, it will be slower than your old motor.
You'll see though. Please post pics when you "get it in" the car. Chances are....we're probably never goin to see pics, because you won't get it into the car.
I am not just speaking out of my arse either...this is directly from first hand experience.

Good luck man.

Here's a link to my friends blog, he swapped a D16A1 in a 4G Civic (scroll down to February 22nd).
http://malichitesmansion.spaces.msn.com/blog/PersonalSpace.aspx

You will find it's just like I described, you will need to elongate one of the holes on the tranny, tap another hole and make a drivers side motor mount. Your SI tranny does not share the same bolt pattern as the D16A1 (close but not the same), and the drivers side motor mount is totally different.

I have seen this done several times, and I've seen Malichite's car in person. This is not a "drop in" swap, it can be done but be prepared for some fabrication. I can also tell you from personal experience that there is no way the Y8 head will just bolt right on.

I am very familiar with the D16A1 and other D-series motors. I built a D16A1 and swapped it into my '86 CRX so I know what I'm talking about. Here are some pics:
http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/d/129985-3/IMG_2079.JPG

http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/d/129982-2/IMG_2078.JPG

Good luck!

ok that works... The motor is a D16A1 but do remember the research was done last night. Its a zc LS motor so it will be a direct fit. That I can tell you will be proven. and for Bambam, If your eyes are ok have you not seen that I was putting the entire motor in. The head swap was just an idea.. You need to stop tryingt to find small info to start a fight. I will show you what it is that I am doing. Remember the Engine Is DOHC (ZC) that came out of a 89 integra LS....

ok that works... The motor is a D16A1 but do remember the research was done last night. Its a zc LS motor so it will be a direct fit. That I can tell you will be proven. and for Bambam, If your eyes are ok have you not seen that I was putting the entire motor in. The head swap was just an idea.. You need to stop tryingt to find small info to start a fight. I will show you what it is that I am doing. Remember the Engine Is DOHC (ZC) that came out of a 89 integra LS....

I'm not trying to start a fight you idiot. I'm trying to save you the headaches. So which is it? Is the motor a ZC or a D16A1? It can't be both..... The motors are different. Actually, ZC's NEVER came in US 89 integras. ZC's were only made in Europe and Japan, so I still hope you know what engine you have. What does it say for the engine code? If it's a real "ZC" it will bolt right in. If it's a D16a1, it WONT bolt right in.
My eyes are just fine. You DID say at one point that you wanted to put the Y8 head on, I was just reinforcing the idea that it won't work without alot of help. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you. I was only trying to help you.
Like i said, I'd be willing to bet that it's a D16a1 and not a ZC, in which case it's going to be a PITA to swap that motor in, and it still is a weak ass motor.
It is much easier to swap a D16a1 into a PRE-88 civic/crx.

The motor is a D16A1 but do remember the research was done last night. Its a zc LS motor so it will be a direct fit. Remember the Engine Is DOHC (ZC) that came out of a 89 integra LS....

Keep in mind there are 4 versions of the DOHC ZC motors.

'85-'87 Civic/Integra ZC (brown top)
'88-'89 Integra ZC (black top)
'88-'91 Civic ZC (also black top, but not like Integra black top)
Extremely rare OBD1 Civic ZC

Don't confuse a D16A1 with a ZC. Once you start calling it a ZC, people will assume you're talking about a Civic ZC.

Also if it came out of a USDM car, it's a D16A1 (look at the engine tag). Even though the '88-'91 Civic ZC will drop right in, the '88-'89 Integra D16A1/ZC won't even though it looks similar. The reason for this is because the '86-'89 Integra is based on the '84-'87 CRX. Honda changed the D-series motor in '88 for the newer body style, but the '86-'89 Acura Integra was still mid way through production so they didn't bother to change the mounts or motor until '90 when the B-series was introduced. The '86-'89 Integra came late in the game when Honda decided it was time to build luxury and sports cars. Honda started the Acura division so the cars would be taken seriously and would not be associated with economy cars, that's why the Integra chassis is 2 years behind the Civic.

Also the D16A1/A8/A9/ZC motors are based on the '84-'87 EW D15 motors. In '85 Honda just slapped a DOHC head on an EW and called it a ZC. Honda made small changes to the motor over the years, and it is actually the predecessor to the B-series motors. This means it's not quite a D-series and it looks like a B-series, but it shares very few parts with either.

Yes we finally started figuring out what where we went wrong. We decided to just start over with the A6 block and rebuild it from where it had the problem.. We thought the motor that we did pull was going to work but we later found out that there was more then just slaping it in there. A few things would have need to be done but it still wouldnt have been the motor I wanted in there. Im going to stick with the stock motor and just do N/a tunning. So far we have a performance shop looking to sell us a A6 Block with 20 bore to it and oversized pistons. If I use that with my Y8 head I should be at a good start untill the internal work starts.

Yes we finally started figuring out what where we went wrong. We decided to just start over with the A6 block and rebuild it from where it had the problem.. We thought the motor that we did pull was going to work but we later found out that there was more then just slaping it in there. A few things would have need to be done but it still wouldnt have been the motor I wanted in there. Im going to stick with the stock motor and just do N/a tunning. So far we have a performance shop looking to sell us a A6 Block with 20 bore to it and oversized pistons. If I use that with my Y8 head I should be at a good start untill the internal work starts.

Smart. That's what we were trying to tell you man. That A6 block w/ Y8 head will make more power in stock form than a D16a1 anyway.

ok so updates on what happend.. I went and bought a new A6 engine. We tore down my old one and swaped a few things.. got my new one together and dropped it in. Havent fired it up yet just had to do some wire connects and by tomarrow it will be ready. She looks so good sitting in there fresh and new... When we tore my old one I seen from the bad barrings the third piston and also the crankshaft was scrubbed so thats no good. Everything turned out pretty good this weekend.. So hopefully I will be in for a treat when I find out what a new cam and lite weight underdrive pully will do with the Y8 head.....also I used the A6 head gasket instead of the Y8 this time...I think the Y8 gasket wasnt sealing right last time...little oil leaks comming out under the head by the water outlet.....we'll see what happens this time..:boink:

ok so updates on what happend.. I went and bought a new A6 engine. We tore down my old one and swaped a few things.. got my new one together and dropped it in. Havent fired it up yet just had to do some wire connects and by tomarrow it will be ready. She looks so good sitting in there fresh and new... When we tore my old one I seen from the bad barrings the third piston and also the crankshaft was scrubbed so thats no good. Everything turned out pretty good this weekend.. So hopefully I will be in for a treat when I find out what a new cam and lite weight underdrive pully will do with the Y8 head.....also I used the A6 head gasket instead of the Y8 this time...I think the Y8 gasket wasnt sealing right last time...little oil leaks comming out under the head by the water outlet.....we'll see what happens this time..:boink:

All the sohc 1.5's and 1.6's use the SAME headgasket. The only difference is the material used and thickness. The A6 gasket is garbage....I hope you got a MLS gasket like the OEM Z6/Y8 gaskets are. The leak you had wasn't related to the gasket itself, it was installer error.

Ok, I saw some references from this site and I started reading this thread. I feel it is time to step in and debunk some of these miths. I am malichite. I am the one that lxndr linked too. I have a 4th Gen HB with a 87 D16A1 in it.

1. This was not a direct swap. I have all the info on my blog on how to do it. Lxndr was right, you must elongate one hole on the block, you must tap a hole in the tranny for the starter and you will have to make a custom mount. There have been a couple different methods for making this mount. Here is another thread on the topic with more info and 3 differnet cars that this has been done in with 3 different styles of mounts. http://www.thezcr.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13039&highlight=d16a1+civic

2. It will make the same power as a d16a6. Shinnanigans. The power curve is much better than the a6 and it makes a lot more torque earlier. It pulls much harder than any a6 I have ever seen. Worth the money

3. 86-87 d16a1 will not bolt right up. 87-88 d16a1s will. If there is a mount point on front of the block it is a 86-87. If there is a mount point on the timming belt side it is an 88-89.

4. D16A1 is "not" a ZC but it is very close. Almost all of the parts in and on a ZC will work in an A1 and vice versa. Biggest difference between the ZC and the A1 are the cams are slightly bigger in the ZC and the tooth count on the crank and cam pullys are different. Also the 86-87 has flat pistons as opposed to the 88-89 and ZC with domed pistons. The rods in the 86-87 are also stronger. They are almost as thick as GSR rods.

Do what you will but I recomend the extra time for the A1 if you can get it cheap. I have no complaints with mine. I did my swap in 3 days. It is not as difficult as it sounds. Go threw my blog and you can see the whole thing. Good luck

-Ryan
www.spaces.msn.com/malichitesmansion (http://www.spaces.msn.com/malichitesmansion)

http://www.thezcr.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC01023.JPG

now thats a dirty engine bay! clean that up dude :headshake

nice work on the swap, way too much trouble to go through tho

That is an old pic from when I was first doing the swap. Here is a new updated pic. :) Just have to finish cleaning up the wiring. To much to do and so little time. Not to worried about how dirty it is. This is my Group 2 Club Rally car anyways. Cant help the dirt.

http://www.thezcr.com/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_1129.jpg

Well i didnt stick witht the motor. I ended up buying another A6, the project took too long because some idiot didnt know what he was doing when he rewired the ecu. It was a pain in the ass.. An OBD1 Ecu with the OBD0 harness and OBD1 connecters on it when he should have just put a dang OBD1 harness in. Well I fixed it up and rewired some things. Fired it up and now have to bring it back into the shop, damn valve guids are bad on the Y8 head. I sware the next kid that rips me off is going to get a law suit for time and money waisted. But im hoping to have that problem fixed real soon. The A1 engine I gave to a buddy cause The rods in those you can use in an A6 block since they can hold about 220hp and the half shafts on the transmission worked great on his A6 Si tranny, the rest will be used for parts for other hondas....

I've got a D16A6 in my '89 si. I'm considering purchasing an '87 wagon, equipped with a 1.5 and Real Time 4WD. After reading this blog, am I to understand that this will drop right in (changing out the wiring harness and the computer)?
Also, my girlfriend wants to make it an automatic. That's no big project, is it?