3800 V6 transplant... how easy?

i've seen many Fieros with 3800 V6 swaps...

just wondering how easy it is to do...

looking at Fieros for a 'daily' driver... but thinking of doing a 3800 V6... I mean 220hp stock aint bad at all hehe.

Anywho, any info would be helpfull!

Thanks

any help... at all... would be ... usefull...


anybody?

at all?

somebodies got to know!...?

i heard with tools diys in your garage, it's sorta tough (depending on how well you know the car/engine), but at a shop they can do it in a few days to a week.

Well, the 3800 will bolt up to Fiero transmission, and the rest is all electrical adaption. You can have a wiring shop do the harness for you, and it'll work fine.

I think the best swap is the 3400TDC, because it's the best and latest developement of the 2.8 liter in the Fiero. It bolts right up to the stock Fiero transmission, or you can use the tranny out of the donor car.

Don't forget, a guy in Chicago makes his living putting SBC's in these things :D

www.v8archie.com

Head on over to www.fierox.com. That is my friend Ryan Cheney and he did the whole swap himself with the help of a friend of his that put a 3800 Supercharged in a 91 Chevy Lumina (www.luminasupercharged.com) They have some great information on doing the swap and everything. See ya.

Amir

Just don't get into an accident, do you know what you have to go through to make that big engine fit, lots of time and plenty of $$$$$, Do you know what you have to remove, Good luck!!!:rolleyes:

... Its only a 3.8liter V6.


Not that big of a deal... you can put V8s into Fieros... Again not that big of a deal.

:confused:

One of those people who thinks his Maxima has a big engine :rolleyes:

It's all pretty easy... Just new mounts and wiring. I'd say go smallblock or go home, LS1!

What size engine does a stock fiero have? See I don't know but that car looks to small to put a 3.8 in there, correct me if I'm wrong, but then again anything is possible when you have $$$$

Oh also, do you think I could put a Q45 engine in my Max?

I seen Fiero's with V-8. From what a guy told me the other day at the lube shop, it takes alot of time and $$$. Don't waist you time doing it unless you got a lot of time on your hands b/c you will be cursing and throwing shit along with the project.

They have 2.5L 4cylenders or 2.8L V-6. Our Fiero has a 2.8L V-6 and can beat my Grand Prix 0-60mph. But after 70mph with the 2.8L in the Fiero they seem to max out and not pull any harder.

So these cars are pretty quick stock???

yeah they will plant you in the seat pretty good under acceleration. They don't have great top end speed though.:(

Whats the stock hp numbers???

You know... i wish i could tell you what a 2.8L V-6 in one of those cars make. My guess would be around 140hp not much but with that small and light weight of a car. It gets it. Mybe i will find out later on.

the 2.8L V-6 Makes 135HP

I was close, that 135HP will sure get you moving and will light the rear tires at any conditions.

Just looked at our owners manual for the Fiero with the 2.8 and says 140hp. well you get the picture. I trust the Owners manual Numbers.

Engine Specifications for the Pontiac Fiero 2.8 V-6

Type....transverse mounted, cast iron block
Bore&Stroke...3.50''x2.99''
Displacement...2.8L or 173 C.I.D.
Fuel System....multi-port fuel injection
Valve Train...overhead valves,pushrods,hydraulic lifters
Power....140hp @5200rpm
Torque 170ft. lbs @3600

Wow, well good luck on the transplant, I know it will haul ass with that new engine. That light car with all that power, I'd go for it!!:D

you could kill yourself putting 200hp in one of those small cars.

People do it to Civis and preludes all day, why not a Fiero???
I'd go for it

i would to, i'd try to put a 400 small block in one:eek: and then race against that Dude with the neon that beat the viper. hmmm

stock 2.8's are 140hp mine is about 160 with very little done but i want to put a different motor some turbo v6 build the motor and b4 nos b around 260-315 hp havnt decided what motor im gonna go with yet
i would love a northstar in it but i want to try to stay with a 6cyl when someone has a built car there is nothing in the world worse then losing to a 6cyl

Originally posted by netjunkkie
when someone has a built car there is nothing in the world worse then losing to a 6cyl
Umm...How about losing to a 4cyl? What I mean to say is I'm looking to put a turbo DOHC 3.4 in to my 88 and then I'm planning on getting a base model and build a SD 4 for it.

blue do u have a pic of your car?

No digital pic. Although picture (in your head) a stock Black 88 GT with the wing, gold rims, and saddle interoir. Then you'd be thinking my car. I'm trying desperatly to get the dig. camera back from my sister then it's photo shoot time!

Oh and nice fiero.:bigthumb:

ya lots and lots of money later its almost done.
I have replaced the motor, radiator, shocks, struts, clutch, cv joints, tie rods, polyurathane bushings, battery, starter, alternator, door lock motors, window motors, (still need to replace headlight motors), new carpet, seat covers, stereo, repainted all the interior silver and blue instead of the original silver and grey, new fiberglass headliner holder, new headliner, new sunroof rubber, etc etc etc
also replaced stock 14' rims with 15 inch rims good tires :) i thought it handled good b4. For anyone with a fiero i definatly sudgest going to 15 inch rims with good tires it handels way better.

140hp

here ya go a little write up I did.. either way 3800/3800SC same installation required

Parts needed
3800 series II supercharged motor 96-03
Donor transmission from the car or 5spd Getrag
Engine harness integrated into the fiero harness
PCM (car’s computer)
Fuel pump Walbro/Holley (255 PPM)
New motor mounts
West Coast Fiero 3800 headers (optional)


This is basically for a manual transmission fiero, I believe there are issues with axels that needed to be changed on an auto not positive, but this should give you a basic idea at what you are dealing with.

Now when installing this in a fiero you won’t need the power steering pump or the AC pump (AC’s optional, but I don’t like those 90+ degree days) If you are using parts from the 2.8 engine in the fiero you can still use the stock AC pump (but you must change the pulley on the fiero AC compressor) and alternator the choice is yours (again if using the fiero alternator change the pulley to a 6 ribbed pulley) With the exhaust headers I say this is optional because I’ve seen people put the exhaust in the trunk and cut out their entire trunk for it. The WCF headers allow the exhaust to exit in the same area as the stock fieros exhaust. Now I’m sure you can keep the stock manifolds if you want and still have your trunk, but from personal research and all I’ve never really asked why people cut their trunks, maybe for heat reasons?

Now the next thing will be the mounts there are various places including West Coast Fiero (WCF) who sells them. I was looking for someone that offered them a little cheaper, because I didn’t want to make them or know really what I needed. So I looked around over at and found a guy over there (username KEV) who sold them both for the automatic/manual transmissions. I believe the going rate for the mounts were roughly $250 for the manual transmissions.

Wiring, this I think was the biggest headache of the whole conversion and when doing this you must, I can’t stress this enough must get the same computer and wiring from the donor car 98 computer grand prix SC, 98 wiring grand prix SC. There was an exception in my case as I went with OBD I (1995 Bonneville) computer as where the newer cars today 96+ are equipped with OBD II. Sent the 3800’s engine wiring and the 2.8 engine wiring from the fiero and the 95 computer to Rockcrawl (http://www.fieroaddiction.com) which he did my wiring and set the car up to run on the 95 OBD I computer. Rockcrawl changed the timing, disabled the passkey, got rid of the dual MAP sensors, so it would run through the MAF sensor, and being I’m using a 95 computer only 1 knock sensor (95 knock sensor changed on the motor) all for a very reasonable price. Sure you can use the OBD II computer on the automatic conversions, I didn’t want to with the manual because of transmission errors and what not, which DHP could fix, but again that would have been more for programming the car and fake it out (prices ranging from $300-500 alone for the computer programming)

I highly recommend using a SPEC Stage 3 clutch (http://www.speclutches.com) that can be bought for $300 which holds 450 Torque and I believe just over 400 HP. When doing the manual transmission you’ll need a flywheel from a firebird/camaro 3800 and then have it machined so that it fits correctly for the manual transmission (not positive on the specs of the flywheel but when having a machine shop doing it can be done rather cheaply) http://www.westcoastfiero.com/engine_hardware_90/engine_hardware_90.html

Next the fuel pump you’ll want this changed for sure to a Walbro or Holley 255 PPM, so you get enough fuel flowing when you give it some acceleration.

The throttle cable wasn’t to much of an issue, sure you can use the 87-88 4 cylinder fiero throttle cable, but we managed to use the stock 88 V6 one. Cut the bracket off the V6 cable and then soldered the end so the cable didn’t split, then put little small cylinder on there with a very small screw that screwed in and held it in place, and allowed us to adapt into the 3800’s throttle body plate. Same goes with the cruise control cable a little cutting and modification like the throttle cable and it’s useable. Before I forget the charcoal canister will most likely need to be changed also (found on quad 4 grand-am) as the one on the fiero is quite larger and might cause clearance issues. The one found on the grand am will adapt perfectly.

Now next before you install the motor in there you’ll most likely need to alter where the coil pack and alternator are placed and it’s up to you where it goes. I replaced my battery tray and welded it so the battery sat a little farther back then the stock location and moved the coil pack over by the battery and mounted the coil pack with spacers to the strut tower (so I’d have space to plug in the plug wires on to the coil pack). As for the alternator I put it in the stock location on the 3800, but when using the fiero alternator I had to change the pulley on the alternator to accept the 6 ribbed belt, and with the fiero alternator it cleared with the deck lid, so no cutting in the lid was involved.

Ok now check for clearance, while installing it slowly and easily watching to make sure everything clears for sure, I know when mine was put in the supercharger had less then half an inch from the right deck lid hinge. So being we were in that situation we cut the bottom bolt that holds the deck lid on (don’t worry if you go this route your deck lid will still hold) after doing this I have an inch or more for the clearance on the supercharger belt. When installing mine I noticed the stock fiero exhaust was interfering with the oil pan so the exhaust was cut off.

www.l67swap.com lots of stuff

The v6 will go 160MPH the I4 is only 140.


Why spend all that money on a swap that only gets you 220/240 when you could get performance heads, performance rebuild kit, v8 rods, arp rod bolts, a 260 or 272 cam, and some nitrous. Or supercharge the 2.8?

The stock 2.8L V6 had a top end of about 120 mph and the HP just isn't there to get much above that. The 2.5L Iron Duke 4 cylinder got to about 100 mph.

It may get to 140 if it fell off a cliff.

The 3800 sc Fieros may get to 150 mph if the speed limiter is removed. But unless the brakes, tires etc are in good shape it is not a wise idea to push that hard.

The stock 2.8 is not the best choice to start to modify with NOS, Turbo or SC. The engines are weak to start with. You'd have better luck with a 3.4 from a 1990s Camaro to start a build up.

Those that have tried large shots of NOS in the 2.8 usually granade the engine sooner than later.

The 3800 transplants make a real nice driving Fiero and 200-240 HP is more than enough to for driving excitement. For a skilled mechanic, the swap isn't that hard. You can find nice 3800 engines all around and to have it done professionally you are looking at $3-4K plus the cost of the engine.

The stock 2.8L V6 had a top end of about 120 mph and the HP just isn't there to get much above that. The 2.5L Iron Duke 4 cylinder got to about 100 mph.

It may get to 140 if it fell off a cliff.


So you have confirmed you don't have a clue of what you are talking about. I WITNESSED WITH MY OWN EYES my friend get to 140mph in his 88 formula very quickly, STOCK. It can EASYILY go to 160mph, STOCK. His 84 or 85 Iron duke got up to 140mph.....until it became a parts car for the 88. He bought the formula 8 months ago and it had 47k original.

Yesterday I was with my friend that has a 04 alero w/ ecotec and we were racing to a drag spot and we were doing 130mph when my friend in the fiero blew past us like we were doing 40mph and he was doing 100mph.


How do you down load videos.....so I can show your ass.

Those that have tried large shots of NOS in the 2.8 usually granade the engine sooner than later.

The 3800 transplants make a real nice driving Fiero and 200-240 HP is more than enough to for driving excitement. For a skilled mechanic, the swap isn't that hard. You can find nice 3800 engines all around and to have it done professionally you are looking at $3-4K plus the cost of the engine.

L67 plus labor = 8k-10k+
It is a shit ton cheaper to build the 2.8 rather than get a 3.4. If you are going to go through all that you might as well put a v8 in it.

272 or 260 Cam, Fierostore.com performance rebuild kit, fierostore.com performance heads, 350 connecting rods (gotta get them machined to fit), arp rod bolts, Better breathing intake manifold, Bored or larger TB, High flow cat, headers, cat back exhaust, Throttle activated direct port nitrous system. That will be way cheaper than any swap and you'll have your 250+whp.

You must be looking at some other planet. The speedometer on a stock GT Fiero only goes to 120 while on the 4 cylinder Duke it goes to 85. So for the 4 cylinder to be going 140, did the speedometer go around twice?

At 70 a 5 speed GT Fiero runs at 2400 rpm, so if you could get up to 160, you would be running at 5500 rpm. It also gets wrapped around the dial? So you have an out of calibration speedometer. There arn't enough horses in a 140HP V6 Fiero to get the rpms up to 5500 in 5th gear even if it was a linear function. There is something called drag coefficient you have to contend with. And yes I have confirmed it with my 2.8 L Fiero and my 3.4L Fiero. I haven't tried it with my ZZ4 Fiero, but it at least has a 200 mph Archie speedometer in it.

As Red Forman says "You're a dumb ass!"

So what if the speedometer only reads to 85. There is this neat invention called a radar gun, it was invented a few decades ago...
My 2m4 buried the speedo needle WITH BAD VALVES AND A WARPED HEAD and a friend following me confirmed I was doing just over 100MPH - I belive a healthy iron duke could pull off 140MPH stock.

It takes GM years of research, development, and testing not to mention upwards of a million dollars (at least) to design the perfect EFI system for a vehicle. Pulling an engine with a electronic controlled fuel system designed to power a Riviera or a Grand Prix and dumping it in a car that's totally different isn't that easy. All the OBDII 3800SC's I know of are programmed to use a transaxle with electronic shifting. Think about happens when the PCM tries to upshift the automatic tranny that isn't there and freaks out when the engine rpms don't go down. The whole system goes into "limp-in" mode and limits rpms under the logical assumption something in the transmission electrical system has failed and it's stuck in 2nd gear. And that's just one of the little things you have to work around.

I admit I'm prejudice of EFI, growing up in a world where "real" cars had big blocks and bolt on performance started with a dual plane intake and a double pumper. Still, If I had to build up a car and had no choice but to use fuel injection, I'd at least stick with the computer/engine combo that was designed for the car. The day I have the patience for anything more, you'll find me interviewing for a job at GM.

FYI for people who think like me, an old school, distributor fired 3.8L 4bbl will bolt right in a Fiero, all you have to do is drill holes for the starter on the proper side of the bell housing mount.
Fact: The Buick Grand National is know among car enthusiasts as one of the quickest V6 equipted, full size, rear driven cars of all time. The engine? A 3.8L turbo WITH A CARB!!

Believe me if you want or you don't have to.....I could care less. I know what I saw. I SAW the v6 formula go 140mph. I SAW the v6 formula blow past me and my friend in an alero that was going 130mph.

And about the 120 speedo...If you take the the distance from 100 to 120 and apply it to the 120 mark.....what do you have? Now double that what do you have now?

Thanks for the insults.....I love youngsters......when you run out of "facts".....insults will fly. Gotta love immaturity.

hello my mame is daniel and i'm from the netherlands . i have a fiero and i want to swamp it to a supergarged 3800 but i don't have any info about it. can enybody help my with some info . thanks from holland

For more information on a 3800 swap go to:

what is the best and the easiest manner to swap my fiero :confused: . there is so many information about It :screwy:
.would someone help my. 3800 V6 transplant :grinyes:

http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/33/01/DanielJanet/5/4f.jpg

For more information on a 3800 swap go to:

http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/search.cgi?words=3800+swap&Find=Search&where=title&scope=Technical+Discussion+%26+Questions
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SADxApsVIhOVTdhIhm6QZnnEr5ndZ7hCni9ALy9FsjBp1c*EQ LV!m9CMntTgpTue7qSlULlG4qs**fTy0dYYEm3nJLRKZZQeofE 62uXrnPszAAAAynJdAg/kerpen-049.jpg?dc=4675473578917635298 http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SAADA5MVOxGVTdhIhm6QZoVLLaIGP5zUh!ULCFDAQ8tqYZqyS NeEvUIAIVG4T0FmWrsVf!QcNSm8XjXJathI1kt7UyotkbIkXxi 57ehz*VgzAAAAynJnAg/kerpen-050.jpg?dc=4675473578921510313 http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SAAAAJcVMBKVTdhIhm6QZulGFN106AmRomLeI6V3iNVdZ1wHE AsebwmdfhNXaFxepwv3RO4G1Tte88AvW2GdpTHUAVczJSQh4UT 2jUbbnGwAAAAAAAAAAA/kerpen-063.jpg?dc=4675473578925068773 :p

pics of my car

what is the best and the easiest manner to swap my fiero :confused: . there is so many information about It :screwy:
.would someone help my. 3800 V6 transplant :grinyes:

http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/33/01/DanielJanet/5/4f.jpg
sorry :confused: ??????????

Whats the stock hp numbers???

Roughly 150 hp and 175 lb-ft for the stock v6. I'm looking at the 3800 supercharged Series II myself...Just need to find one that's not a few grand.

The v6 will go 160MPH the I4 is only 140.


Why spend all that money on a swap that only gets you 220/240 when you could get performance heads, performance rebuild kit, v8 rods, arp rod bolts, a 260 or 272 cam, and some nitrous. Or supercharge the 2.8?

wow...seems like only a few months ago you were trashing me about building up the 2.8, you called it a paperweight i believe haha. mine should finally be done soon, finally got someone to finish it.

redneck! its been awhile...

Fact: The Buick Grand National is know among car enthusiasts as one of the quickest V6 equipted, full size, rear driven cars of all time. The engine? A 3.8L turbo WITH A CARB!!

Fact: The Grand National was fuel injected. :disappoin

So you have confirmed you don't have a clue of what you are talking about. I WITNESSED WITH MY OWN EYES my friend get to 140mph in his 88 formula very quickly, STOCK. It can EASYILY go to 160mph, STOCK. His 84 or 85 Iron duke got up to 140mph.....until it became a parts car for the 88. He bought the formula 8 months ago and it had 47k original.

Yesterday I was with my friend that has a 04 alero w/ ecotec and we were racing to a drag spot and we were doing 130mph when my friend in the fiero blew past us like we were doing 40mph and he was doing 100mph.


How do you down load videos.....so I can show your ass.


You sir, are retarded. You need to spend more time working on your car than surfing the internet. I will bet you $10k RIGHT now if you can pull out a stock 2.8 fiero that will do 160MPH. (I'll even let you borrow my GPS) I've owned 4 Fieros including a 2.5, a 2.8 and a Modded SC'd 3800. NONE OF THEM WOULD DO 160MPH. The 2.5 would BARELY creep over 100MPH. The 2.8 ran out of umph at 120mph. I could get my 3800 passed the 120 mark but not much. No matter the motor, you're either limited by the gear or the power.

Your 'perception' of how fast things are going are also void. In your own words, you said you were doing 130mph, and your friend passed you like they were doing 100 and you were doing 40. Thats a 60mph difference on top of your 130mph, that would mean that Fiero was doing 190mph.

Do humanity a favor and either, drink some bleach and take yourself out of the genepool, or don't attack peoples intelligence when you obviously have no clue what you're talking about.