Shifting an automatic? Bad?

Would it be dramatically bad for my tranny if I shifted my car although it is an automatic? Keep in mind when answering that when I do it I feel like nothing is clunking :lol: haha and that I feel less aggresive when I drive this way for some reason. I do let it get about 1k higher in rpm a lot before shifting from second to like third that it usually would shift on its own. So yes I let it go a bit higher in rpm...that should be worse on the engine than the tranny...Let me know what you hardcore drivers think :grinyes:

run Mobile 1 synthetic oil in the 3.5L and change the tranny fluid and filter.

My 2000 Intrigue will hit as a max 80mph in a manually shifted 2nd gear. Try it sometime on the inclined highway on-ramp. Very good power that is hard to beat by other cars. I like to use 2nd all the way up to 55-70mph to get on the highway. This is with new taller type tires, the old tires would maybe only go 60-70mph. My first gear will hit almost 40mph max and will slightly initially spin the tires.

I have never had any engine or tranny problems yet either. This can be a very fun car to drive and the 3.5L has serious torque at all rpm ranges also.

I rarely use a manually shifted 1st gear because having it in 2nd is almost as good. Shifting from 2-3-OD(4th) is my typical. Coming off the highway I will downshift at 40-50mph into 3rd for better braking. Downshift into 2nd maybe for panic braking only at highway speeds (never done that yet).

Isnt engine compression braking bad for the transmission?

depends on the car. If you have a 1966 Chrysler w/440 with drum brakes you may want to use it. It's a driving technique that can be used in the winter. I had a 1978 Dodge full-time 4wd with 35"x12"s where it worked pretty well.

The Intrigue wouldn't be the best example, but surprisingly the 4T65E is much stonger than I and most others had previously thought. Or I just got a good one. I really like the 4T65E.

The hardest part on any engine is when you are full throttle then right at the back off point. The backing off on the throttle is ~3x harder on the engine than full throttle surprisingly.

Tranny rebuilds are more expensive than replacing brake pads. And the Intrigue pads are fairly easy to replace (especially the rear). Maybe a good reason to not use the tranny to downshift or even worse double down. Bad habits may be harder to brake.

The 3.5 is a good engine, and yes it does put out more power than the 3.8, but there are times I miss having the 3.8 (I used to have a Bonneville with the 3.8)

The 3.8 in the Intrigue is rated for 195hp/230 ft. lbs of torque, (The Bonneville is rated at 205hp/230ft.lbs due to a better intake/exhaust setup)

And of course the 3.5 is rated for 215hp/230 ft. lbs. of torque, not too mention that both of these engines are probably underrated in typical GM fashion.

Below is a dyno chart comparing a 3.8(From a Bonneville or other H-body) with teh 3.5:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/rjolly87/powercurve.gif

The 3.8 is the thin line, the 3.5 is the bold one, you can see that the 3.8 has quite a bit more low-end grunt than the 3.5, but the 3.5 dominates the higher-rpm range...if youve ever driven both, you will know exactly what im talking about.

The 3.5 is better for all-out, balls to the wall driving, but when you just want to drive like a sane person with some solid power, the 3.8 is much more driveable, because you dont have to push so high into the rpms to get the power you want.

Dont forget that gearing plays a large role in performance as well, two gearing options that I know of were available on the Intrigue, the 3.05 ratio and the 3.29, the latter being more performance orientated.

To see which one you have, you should check the RPO code list on your trunk lid and look for:

FR9- Ratio, Transaxle Final Drive, 3.29

F83- Ratio, Transaxle Final Drive, 3.05

I have the less aggressive of the two, but I can deal with that.

I see ^
Ok, so who thinks I Would be fine shifting and who thinks that it is going to junk my car :p

#1. shift and stay above 4k rpm for extreme performance therefore beatng the 3.8 cleanly.

#2. play around with your shifts and enjoy driving more. The Intrigue loves this and actually drives better, no need to ever go above 4k rpm either.

#3. The 3.5L will rev very quickly if you want it to and still have the killer torque = the 3.8 doesn't have this.

#4. This does not pertain to the 3.8 with supercharger.

#5. The 3.8 has an iron block = needed for extreme mods, turbos etc.

#6. With the Intrigue you can go with the 3.8 or 3.5 = no other GM car offers this. Expect other W-bodies to allow this also.

Well I personally think its kinda pointless to do on a routine basis, its fun to do once in a while, but really I think the best performance can be achieved by letting the car shift itself.

If you shift too soon, the car is still going to shift itself anyway

If you hold it out too long, the car is still going to pull timing before it shifts, it will not shift at redline in stock form.


#1. shift and stay above 4k rpm for extreme performance therefore beatng the 3.8 cleanly.

Also defeating your wallet cleanly, as youre going to be getting like 15mpg doing that at most.

#2. play around with your shifts and enjoy driving more. The Intrigue loves this and actually drives better, no need to ever go above 4k rpm either. which if youre still flooring it when you shift at 4k the car is going to hold out before it shifts itself, so youd have to be really good at backing off the car just right and shifting just right for it to do any real good, and even then the difference would be very little.

#4. This does not pertain to the 3.8 with supercharger.

which was never featured in the Intrigue anyway so why is that relevant?

#6. With the Intrigue you can go with the 3.8 or 3.5 = no other GM car offers this. Expect other W-bodies to allow this also.

Well you could only get either engine one year in the Intrigue, I guess you could do an engine swap, but I dont see why anyone would swap in a 3.5 unless it was just extremely handy for them to do so, if youre going to do an engine swap put in a Series II supercharged engine, do everything there is availbale to do to it, next thing you know you have an Intrigue in the 11s or 12s.

OSV Aurora Intrigue
http://www.autoworld.com/apps/news/FullStory.asp?id=341

http://www.knightsperformance.com/osv_intrigue_to_test_high_perfor.htm
OSV Intrigue with SuperCharger

the possibilities were there. Notice how limited in performance the Aluminum block 3.5L Intrigue is compared to an iron block 3.8 with supercharger.

Yes the possibilities were there for a supercharged 3.5, or a Northstar V8. They were trying to do something different with the Intrigue, which I think is why they never put the Supercharged 3.8 in there...in fact the 3.5 was designed originally to replace the 3.8, but it never did, I believe it was too expensive for GM to produce when compared to the 3.8.

But either way both engines mentioned in those articles are probably aluminum blocked, because im sure that V8 is the same 4.6 Northstar engine later used in the Bonneville GXP.

The 3.5 is capable of making a lot of power, its fairly popular in off-road applications and there are many engines making a ton of horsepower with turbos...so aluminum has very little to do with it, the LS2 is an all-aluminum engine is it not?

The 3.5 is limited in performance because GM allowed it to be, with the M62 supercharger, according to the very article you linked to panzer, it puts out 250hp and 260 ft. lbs of torque...now the 3.8 with that same supercharger the Eaton M62 at its most advanced generation (the Gen 3 M62) only puts out 225hp and 275 ft. lbs of torque...a little bit more torque...but look at the horsepower difference as well......and the huge power difference and limitations youre referring to would be....where?

crank up the boost and the limitations of the 3.5L will show. Still a great engine and better than the 3.8L NA as your dyno graph shows. Non-rebuildable as a complete engine as of yet also?

The 3.8 in the Oldsmobile Ciera was a contender also = a very good candidate for a 3.8L supercharger. Figure in E85 and you won't need the lower compression anymore either.

With these cars getting cheap expect more play. Rip a few hundred pounds of junk off the car and you have a performer. I can't wait for $500 (see this forum), $1000, $2000 Intrigues. I can almost salivate at the thought.

Your ideas on shifting are way off. Put your 3.5L in second and then shift at 55-65mph or whatever, you are now at 3k+ in 3rd = right where you want to be with the Intrigue. Shift into OD if you want it or power thru 3rd.

Why bump into a rev-limiter unless you really want to. Any why would you shift into a rev-limit condition? The Mitsubishi Evolution with the WRC misfire set-up is the only thing that comes to mind sort of resembling what you are talking about, but that would only be used to get off the torque load for braking, turning, shifting weight etc. In a NA non-AWD car like the Intrigue it really wouldn't make sense and is unneccessary.

I wouldn't necessarily do only because I don't see the benefits. but it sounds like you won't hurt the transmission. And if it increases your driving pleasure, go for it!.