propane fuel

i just found out propane is about 1.75 a gallon compared to 2.95 a gallon for gas i was wondering what engs can be converted to propane i was thinking along the lines of chevy 3.1 or 3.4 so i can get a old 2.8 with blown motor and swap the engs once the conversion has been done how do you convert to run from gas to propane? at under 2 buks a gallon the conversion will pay for itself

Isnt propane flammable and thus when ignited or what not wouldnt it go boom?

Isnt propane flammable and thus when ignited or what not wouldnt it go boom?
Not to be smart, but isn't that the point?

What about ethanol fuels? I know E85 isn't readily available, but what's the price difference there?

Not to be smart, but isn't that the point?

What about ethanol fuels? I know E85 isn't readily available, but what's the price difference there?

E85 is more expensive that regular gas right now if im not mistaken........ Also I think newer cars (like the Silverado or Sierra) have options to be able to run propane, natural gas, etc.

Isnt propane flammable and thus when ignited or what not wouldnt it go boom?
oh by the way gas goes BOOM too.....as far as e85 its not pubiclly avil in this state anywhere yet only the militery and fleets use it

No, the real reason there are not more of them, and especially in public use is because of the expense of maintaining a propane powered engine. Propane also contains less power per given unit of measure compared to gasoline, soyou would have to burn so much more of it to parallel the performance of a liquid fuel engine. Lastly, LPG has almost NO lubricity at all, the engine has to be designed to tollerate the "dry", non lubricating fuel. This increases the initial cost of ownership many fold and then having to burn so much more propane than what one would think to get a decently powered vehicle kind of makes it a miserable choice of fuel. However, it's rather sedate BTU content makes it a perfect test fuel for my turbines! I will test and wear in freshly made turbine on LPG, and then wean it off onto more powerful, potent mixtures. One of my engine designs LOVES to be fired and pre-heated on propane, then switched over to a 50/50 mix of gasoline and Diesel being swirled into the preheat chamber atop of the combustor, and then shutting off the propane flow ..... poor man's Jet A-1. :D

i just found out propane is about 1.75 a gallon compared to 2.95 a gallon for gas i was wondering what engs can be converted to propane i was thinking along the lines of chevy 3.1 or 3.4 so i can get a old 2.8 with blown motor and swap the engs once the conversion has been done how do you convert to run from gas to propane? at under 2 buks a gallon the conversion will pay for itself

Lot of things to condsider.
One is the cost of propane if you are paying road tax will usually go up to close the price of gasoline. It may not be there now but give it time.
Propane and gasoline produce about the same power or gas mileage per gallon
A blazer is not the best thing to put a propane tank in or even the trunk of a car.
Pickups or bigger trucks are the only ones safe to mount a propane tank on.
Like said it goes boom big time if it has a leak.
If a engine is changed over to propane it needs to be done on a new engine and some engine will need special heads and valves.
MT

i just found out propane is about 1.75 a gallon compared to 2.95 a gallon for gas i was wondering what engs can be converted to propane i was thinking along the lines of chevy 3.1 or 3.4 so i can get a old 2.8 with blown motor and swap the engs once the conversion has been done how do you convert to run from gas to propane? at under 2 buks a gallon the conversion will pay for itself

Here is a couple of sites you might check out
http://www.motherearthnews.com/top_articles/1972_May_June/Convert_Your_Car_To_Propane
http://tinyurl.com/b8s4r
http://www.propane-generators.com/

There are a few propane filling stations around my area for fleet vehicles and what not - as MT2500 said, throw in road tax and your savings are gone. I doubt you could pull into U-Haul or what not and have them fill your tank.

Not to mention possible problems if out in the middle of nowhere and you run out of fuel.

Nearly ANY vehicle or engine can be converted to LP, it makes no difference internally especially ith engines newer than 1973. Normally the power will drop 5-10% and the mpg will drop 10-20 %. The conversion will rarely pay for itself unless one has on-site refuelling. Internal engine mods can minimise or even turn these losses into gains, but that's a lot of work.

Carb/convertor/regulator/waterlines/gas line and electronics are the easy parts, the tank is the hardest part a lot of times if you want it to look pro.

Large trucks, tractors, busses seem to be the most benefitial, small cars sometimes are tricky. Off-road and race type cars are also great candidates because you can design the whole system .

Nearly ANY vehicle or engine can be converted to LP, it makes no difference internally especially ith engines newer than 1973. Normally the power will drop 5-10% and the mpg will drop 10-20 %. The conversion will rarely pay for itself unless one has on-site refuelling. Internal engine mods can minimise or even turn these losses into gains, but that's a lot of work.

Carb/convertor/regulator/waterlines/gas line and electronics are the easy parts, the tank is the hardest part a lot of times if you want it to look pro.

Large trucks, tractors, busses seem to be the most benefitial, small cars sometimes are tricky. Off-road and race type cars are also great candidates because you can design the whole system .

Just wondering where you got the info or experiance on 5-10% power drop and 10-20% MPG drop?
Have you tested the same engine side by side with gas and propane power or what make and model or set ups? Full propane or full gas or a propane and gas combo?
All of the change overs I have been around or drove I have never saw any difference in power or very little MPG or gallons per hr.
MT

There's a van in my area for sale for 500 that runs on natural gas.
http://njpdfonline.showpubs.net/PA/Central%20PA/08.pdf
At end of ad.

I have years of experience with (our crude home-made chassis dyno) doing before and after tests of straight fuel and dual fuel conversions. I also same info on the mechanics who did conversions long before I did.

Most dual fuel conversions were somewhat of a comprimise between both fuels causing the gas hp to go down, the LP hp to go down and the mpg to stay the same on both fuels (the same as if it was straight fuel)

The next best conversions were the straight fuel conversions that allowed a lot of the emmision control stuff to be removed.

The next best conversions were the ones that engine mods had been done.

The best ones were ones that vehicle was built up from the ground knowing it was to be fueled by LP and allowed the engine and complet system to be designed for LP only.

Let me pick my brain a bit for specific vehicles.. it has been over 5 years since messing with any of it and the new electronics kits and such really should be able to do a lot better on both fuels. Last I seen the same old carb/convertors from 40 years ago were stil being used along with the on board computer controls.

An LP conversion in the 70's and 80's really used to be able to wake up a sick vehicle, but in the 90's it seems that the gasoline boys had really done thier homework and cleaned them up a bunch.

It also seemed that a small car that got great mpg when converted to LP would lose a much higher % or mpg than a larger 1 ton truck (or larger) would. Lots of those duallies in the 70's and 80 were real sick on power and mpg and they could even improve, but that was due to a sick performing big-block usually .

Some of my conversions include
A few statiionary engines
3 garden tractors
2 motorcycles
3 snowmobiles
3 motorhomes
12 cars (various)
12 full size pickups
6 1 ton trucks
6 class 8 trucks
6 various farm tractors
various pulling tracors and race cars, lots of street beaters. A few vehicles that are too embarrassing or ilegal to speak about.

I forgot some busses and vans, my pride was a few twin turbo set-ups with purpose built engines and large engines seemed to tickle my fancy along with distributorless diesel conversions.

I have years of experience with (our crude home-made chassis dyno) doing before and after tests of straight fuel and dual fuel conversions. I also same info on the mechanics who did conversions long before I did.

Most dual fuel conversions were somewhat of a comprimise between both fuels causing the gas hp to go down, the LP hp to go down and the mpg to stay the same on both fuels (the same as if it was straight fuel)

The next best conversions were the straight fuel conversions that allowed a lot of the emmision control stuff to be removed.

The next best conversions were the ones that engine mods had been done.

The best ones were ones that vehicle was built up from the ground knowing it was to be fueled by LP and allowed the engine and complet system to be designed for LP only.

Let me pick my brain a bit for specific vehicles.. it has been over 5 years since messing with any of it and the new electronics kits and such really should be able to do a lot better on both fuels. Last I seen the same old carb/convertors from 40 years ago were stil being used along with the on board computer controls.

An LP conversion in the 70's and 80's really used to be able to wake up a sick vehicle, but in the 90's it seems that the gasoline boys had really done thier homework and cleaned them up a bunch.

It also seemed that a small car that got great mpg when converted to LP would lose a much higher % or mpg than a larger 1 ton truck (or larger) would. Lots of those duallies in the 70's and 80 were real sick on power and mpg and they could even improve, but that was due to a sick performing big-block usually .

534BC
Thanks for the info.
Sounds like you have some hands on experiance with it.
When I was a kid on the farm wee used it a lot in farm tractors and gas or propane they had about the same power and fuel usage may or may not have been the same memory fails me a little.
But propane sure was a lot cheaper than gas back then.
Filling them tanks was a dangerous operation.
Dan stuff would freeze you and than burn you.
But it sure was a good weed killer. One shot would freeze up them weeds.
Small cars or vans and blazers do not leave a very safe place to put the tanks. And parking one in a inside garage could be dangerous.
I saw the roof blowed off of a repair shop after one was parked in it overnight.
Thanks MT

Gasoline = 124,000 BTU's/gallon
Propane = 91,000 BTU's/gallon

Propane = less energy by given volume compared to gasoline. My former statement stands. :D You'll burn more propane to equal the same performance/energy of engine output as if it were on gasoline, therefore making the idea of costs savings a little foolish in our current energy economy. But one thing is certain and very favorable for Propane based fuel systems for vehicles - they are cleaner and typically a little more efficient, resulting in a pure, complete burn of fuel. Think about it - any indoor equipment for heavy use like forklifts and huge, powerful polishers burn propane as a fuel source - not gasoline. Propane's a bit more environmentally friendly and responsible when used as a vehicle fuel.

E85 is more expensive that regular gas right now if im not mistaken........ Also I think newer cars (like the Silverado or Sierra) have options to be able to run propane, natural gas, etc.


I'm not sure of your location, but of the half-dozen or so ethanol stations I see around here, E-85 is about 30% less than E-10 "gasoline" in almost every instance. I got 87 octane "regular" for a couple vehicles at $2.99-9/10 and filled my half-truck with 105 octane E-85 for $2.33-9/10 Thursday. I can easily afford to lose almost 2 MPG at that rate and still be money ahead.

Newer "flex fuel" vehicles cannot run LP, CNG or other gaseous fuels without special conversion. Those vehicles you are seeing commonly advertised are strictly for gasoline or ethanol blends up to 85%.

I'm not sure of your location, but of the half-dozen or so ethanol stations I see around here, E-85 is about 30% less than E-10 "gasoline" in almost every instance. I got 87 octane "regular" for a couple vehicles at $2.99-9/10 and filled my half-truck with 105 octane E-85 for $2.33-9/10 Thursday. I can easily afford to lose almost 2 MPG at that rate and still be money ahead.

Newer "flex fuel" vehicles cannot run LP, CNG or other gaseous fuels without special conversion. Those vehicles you are seeing commonly advertised are strictly for gasoline or ethanol blends up to 85%.

Your right its about the same price as regular unleaded here................. I was thinking biodiesel which is still more expensive than anything here