The Purple People Eater started! Now I need URGENT help!

Ok, so like the title says, I got all the shit back on today and after fucking around a while, she started. At first it didnt start so I started checking stuff. I found that the plug wires were in wrong, then that I forgot to connect the coil to the wiring harness. Got in, turned it over and she started right the fuck up! So I was extremely happy, I killed it right away though, the valve cover wasnt even bolted on :p.

Rewind to right after I got the engine mount back on and it was ready for me to crank ir over. After not starting, I did some compression tests, the first time the 2, 3, and 4 cylinders were ok (125-130), but the first cylinder (next to the timing belt) was low, at 75. So after after trying to start it again and not working, I found a couple vac hoses I forgot to plug back in. So I did cranked it over again, nothing. Another compression test. 2, 3, and 4 each seemed to go up a bit, 5 psi maximum. That first hole went up to 85. More monkeying around, found the plug wires were wrong, fixed them, wouldnt start, found that the coil was unplugged, fixed that and bam she started. I did one more compression test, the compression was about 135 on 2, 3, and 4 and the first hole went up to like 90. So whats going on? Before the head rebuild the compression in that hole was decent, like 135 so I doubt its the rings. What is the torque supposed to be on a OEM MLS head gasket? Is it a little more since the headgasket is metal? (oh yeah, I have ARP's) I think I am going to track down another torque wrench and retorque the head bolts and see if it works better. Any insight AS SOON AS POSSIBLE would be amazing, I want this bitch on the road.

Purple People Eater huh?....You read super street too? lol. Glad to hear your getting your car together. Can't help you with the prob. though.

How tight did you put the studs in? Did you use moly lube?

Never fuckin mind! Its all gravy. Heres the story.

So I went out tonight to try to see whats up. I tried to start it, it got to 1000rpms and slowly died. After starting it and watching it die 8-10 times while I tried to run around the door to manipulate the throttle (didnt hook up the cable yet), I just hooked up the throttle cable. I started it and played with the gas, it ran like absolute shit... rpms bouncing all over and it not firing all the time. Well, I got out and looked at the engine bay and thought, "What would I tell some newbie on AF with these symptoms?" Boost leak! So I started the boost leak test and guess what I saw? I forgot to put the fuckin BOV dump tube on! So on it went and it idles fine above 1000 rpms! I still need to get the ignition timing set, my dads friend has a timing light that I can probably use. So after it ran for about 2 minutes I went and turned it off then I rechecked the compression. The problem hole was at 135 as were all the others! I am so fuckin stoked right now. IIRC, they were 132, 135, 135, and 138 (not in that order). I guess the gasket just needs to get seated better or some shit. And yes Scott, I did do the studs right, I read Kevin's site a few times. However, I do want to borrow someones torque wrench and retorque the nuts on, just to make sure but all I need to do now before the beeach hits the streets tomorrow night is put on the timing cover, water and crank pulleys, alternator and water pump belts, bleed the front brakes, get a tire patched, tighten the clamps from the MAF to the TB, and tighten down the o2 sensor housing! Man, I cannot wait to drive it. Do you guys understand how long I have been waiting for this? My import car obsession started with F&F and I started liking basically everything. It moved to Cavaliers then bounced around until I started gaining respect for turbo Eclipses. At first I didnt like DSM's at all, as a matter of fact I hated them. Well, after realizing how damn sexy an unfucked with 2gb looks and how ruthlessly fast they are with little mod $$$ I started to like them. I have been reading and learning about these cars for nearly 4 years. Now, tomorrow night I will hopefully actually get to drive a DSM to its potential and not have to worry about a blown HG or keep it under 4 grand because its not my car. Tomorrow I will be free. (Beat the F&F Tokyo Drift!!! :p)

And no, I dont read Super Street. Is there some article on a "Purple People Eater" in there?

Never fuckin mind! Its all gravy. Heres the story.

So I went out tonight to try to see whats up. I tried to start it, it got to 1000rpms and slowly died. After starting it and watching it die 8-10 times while I tried to run around the door to manipulate the throttle (didnt hook up the cable yet), I just hooked up the throttle cable. I started it and played with the gas, it ran like absolute shit... rpms bouncing all over and it not firing all the time. Well, I got out and looked at the engine bay and thought, "What would I tell some newbie on AF with these symptoms?" Boost leak! So I started the boost leak test and guess what I saw? I forgot to put the fuckin BOV dump tube on! So on it went and it idles fine above 1000 rpms! I still need to get the ignition timing set, my dads friend has a timing light that I can probably use. So after it ran for about 2 minutes I went and turned it off then I rechecked the compression. The problem hole was at 135 as were all the others! I am so fuckin stoked right now. IIRC, they were 132, 135, 135, and 138 (not in that order). I guess the gasket just needs to get seated better or some shit. And yes Scott, I did do the studs right, I read Kevin's site a few times. However, I do want to borrow someones torque wrench and retorque the nuts on, just to make sure but all I need to do now before the beeach hits the streets tomorrow night is put on the timing cover, water and crank pulleys, alternator and water pump belts, bleed the front brakes, get a tire patched, tighten the clamps from the MAF to the TB, and tighten down the o2 sensor housing! Man, I cannot wait to drive it. Do you guys understand how long I have been waiting for this? My import car obsession started with F&F and I started liking basically everything. It moved to Cavaliers then bounced around until I started gaining respect for turbo Eclipses. At first I didnt like DSM's at all, as a matter of fact I hated them. Well, after realizing how damn sexy an unfucked with 2gb looks and how ruthlessly fast they are with little mod $$$ I started to like them. I have been reading and learning about these cars for nearly 4 years. Now, tomorrow night I will hopefully actually get to drive a DSM to its potential and not have to worry about a blown HG or keep it under 4 grand because its not my car. Tomorrow I will be free. (Beat the F&F Tokyo Drift!!! :p)

And no, I dont read Super Street. Is there some article on a "Purple People Eater" in there?

Cool man. Gonna be hittin the streets hard huh?

And yes. In Super Street, one of the editors (Yamz Yamamoto) has a project car dubbed "Purple People Eater". Its a bad ass j-spec 180sx. Fully built SR20DET, Vertex build-in body kit, and its Barney purple. Beautiful car.

I don't know how many times I've told you this but I'm dyin to see some pics of your ride.

:lol: Thanks man. I just took some yesterday but I was so excited about hearing that best running, I left the camera out there again. Hopefully tomorrow she will be street worthy and I will for sure take some pictures of it then, when its not on jackstands and when it has its new rims on.

Damn... well I guess there are just going to have to be two purple people eaters. ;)

congrats

Congrats.

Next week I get my car back from the shop so I am pretty stoked myself.

Ok, here are the pictures I promised you...

Me torquing the cams
http://f5.putfile.com/6/16719022555-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/16719022555.jpg&s=f5)

Heres my 2g big brakes
http://f5.putfile.com/6/16719072356-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/16719072356.jpg&s=f5)

The engine bay, most of the way back together
http://f5.putfile.com/6/1671905329-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/1671905329.jpg&s=f5)

Heres the car itself, still on jackstands and itching to get rolling!
http://f5.putfile.com/6/16719041377-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/16719041377.jpg&s=f5)

What do you guys think? I will for sure have lots more pictures when it actually gets out of the garage. I got the brakes bled today but thats it so far. My mom decided we need to have dinner as a family so there goes my dream of running it tonight. I work at 5am tomorrow so I should be off by like noon and I dont work Monday so I will be god-fuckin-damned if I leave the shop in anything but the Talon. :D

looking good man, good job

Thanks. I got the passenger side wheel on, boost leaks fixed, and some other minor shit done today, all I have left to do is: put the timing belt cover back on (only with like 4 bolts, its coming off again very soon anyway), crank pulley, water pump pulley, alternator belt, p/s belt, water pump belt, and figure out where the lines went for the TB coolant passage. Then I gotta figure out where the return line from the TB goes, fill the coolant and fire the bitch up! After I fixed the boost leaks today I started it for my friend. She idled at ~700 RPM without dieing! I am so fuckin stoked! Cams BETTER be here on Monday or Tuesday and they will go on as soon as they get here. Mike should be selling me his 3" exhaust soon if we cant get his Talon running. Then depending on whether I buy a laptop or not I will go more hardcore on this car. If not, I think I will get a FMIC, 190, oil pressure guage, rice (purple underbodies :icon16:) and boost guage/MBC. Then all I have left for my speed setup is injectors, DSMlink, and the bigger turbo. If I get the lap top, I think I will just get the FMIC and rice for now, then do the rest as I get money. I am taking it down to the cities on July 20th and I'll be there until the 23rd which is the dsmstyle.com DSM meet. Hopefully with the exhaust, cams, and BCS mod I can squeak out a 12.999 or lower. I am sooooo freakin excited guys. Anyway, I will have pictures up tomorrow when I get this bitch on the road.

Looks good. I love the color combination on the car. Also I think those 300zx rims look right on that car. I just like the whole car in general. Good job. Hurry up and get that beast on the road so you can tell us how it drives.

sounds good man. On the coolant passages at least on a 2g the tb has an upper and a lower and there is an upper and a lower hoses so I figure the upper goes to the upper and the lower goes to the lower, is that right? I havent hooked mine up yet and I'm sick of it idling at 2k+

No idea on the 2g's but I got my shit figured out today. On 6 bolts, the top nipple goes to the water neck and the bottom goes about 6-8 inches down and T's into another coolant hose running by.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the complements. At first I thought the 300zx rims were ugly as hell, but now after the backs have been on, they are growing on me like crazy. I will eventually get them repainted black, but I need to take a trip to the cities first. Scott's recommendations of the hull stripper and duplicolor wheel paint arent available up here. I am SO FUCKIN CLOSE to being done now. All I have to do is get the water pump/ UD pulleys on, but on the belts, the driver's side front rim, and bolt down the timing/valve cover. THATS IT. I can remember when the to do list was about 6 pages long, now its only like 4 lines. Man I am fuckin stoked. I am waiting to eat with my family (mmmmm free food ;)) and my mom is going to drive me out there. I dont work tomorrow so I will be out there until I can drive it home, which hopefully wont be more than 2 hours. Then the testing starts :D. Hey, I need to make sure the tires dont slip! Hopefully my buddies will be out tonight, but probably not, its kinda shitty out. I've got everything I need now, all the belts, fluids (still need a bit more coolant), a new victory cigar, my camera, and a fresh set of batteries. Pics coming later tonight along with a very hopped up Thor :D.

FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK. Thats all I have to say. So right after this previous post I go upstairs, happy as a lark. I go to tell dad what I have left to do and tell him I am driving it home and he tells me I shouldnt drive it. Lunch started so we went to the table. Then I start getting shit for being drirty. I dont know why it bothered me but they were just persistent about how dirty I was all time and it got under my skin. Then out of nowhere dad is like, "You cant drive that car today." So now thoroughly pissed off I left to go out to the shop with absolutely no drive to start putting that got forsaken timing cover on. After working on it from 4 until roughly 8, I pushed all the shit aside, turned on the cars theme song (Ridin Dirty) and start er up. Though I couldnt leave the property, I was going to go drive around the parking lot and give her a good hard launch. Well, I let it warm up a few seconds while I was jammin out and then I started to go. I made it about 10 feet forward and it just died. So I was like what the hell. Only thing I could think to do was comression test. 90 in the first cylinder, and a whopping 0 in the second. Great, just fucking great I thought. I was confused as hell though, there was still tension and there wasnt anything in there to skip it (checked very good before I put the timing cover on). So I put it up in the air and start on the wheel, motor mount, belts, pulleys, and timing cover. Sure enough, the crank sprocket walked forward and the belt slipped off behind! I forgot to put that really thick washer thing on after the sprocket and before the nut. It was un fucked with, no gouges, cracks, scrapes, scratches, etc. So I reset the timing and started another compression test. The first cylinder was good, same as before (~135). Then the second cylinder. 0. So I just left. Freshly done valves and I bent a few of them. Isnt that fucking great? So hopefully by tomorrow afternoon the head will be back off, this time for the last time. I am going to just bite it and have a local guy do it. My dads friend is cheaper (I think he gave me the head work for graduation, he sent it up on my grad party day without a bill) but I cant afford time right now. I want this car on the road and it will be atleast a week until I get it done from him since hes in another town. So yeah, hopfully its just a matter of a few valves and not a rebuilt head. I think that 2 and 3 are the only ones bothered. It was only at like 1500 rpms when it did it, not like I was at 7500 and halfway down a drag track. We'll see tomorrow though, now that I know what I am doing, I should have it off within like 3 hours if everything goes smooth. All I really have to do is disconnect vac hoses and sensors, the turbo and cooling system stuff. Not a big deal. But I am kinda torqued off, I was litterally just reaching for the victory cigar. Now I know its not over until the fat lady sings and thats when I am pulling out of the driveway. If everthing goes well, I could have it done by wednesday night. I have all day tomorrow off so if I head out abotu 8, I shouldnt have much problem having the head off by noon and I bet the guy will have it done by wednesday (stays up on his work, doesnt get behind) and I have wednesday off so hopfully it will be back on and the car will be running by Saturday. While it was idling it sounded SO GOOD though! Way better than before, no more lifter tick or turbo/manifold clatter. Ah well, shit happens right? I just hope I can buy the amount of valves that I need

Sucks about the bent valves. Not the end of the world though. :) Like you said, the time is the biggest loss. On the bright side, if you are waiting for cams you might as well put them in with the next head install so you don't have to ass around with the tbelt again. ;)

One point I wanted to make about the original post is that the torque on the head bolts is directly related to the tensile strength of the stud/bolt and the lube used, and has nothing to do with the gasket. So torque to the recomended values and drive it on. If you used a mitsu MLS it should be ok to reuse it with so little time on it. I reused one after a few months of use and it held fine until the next tear down.

buy something else dsms are a pain in the butt. if you can keep the thing runing a couple months at a time its a miracle

Sorry to hear about the vavles :( I give you a lot of credit, you have something called patience... that I do not have as you have read how many talon's and eclipses have went through my garage... Good luck with the rebuilding and hope to see a vid of your quarter mile, but break it in first....

that sucks, thats what you get with listening to rap songs before you race.... you should listen to Oh yeah from the fairis buehler (SP) movie. hahhahah funny as shit taht song is

Thanks guys. I like that phrase kevin, "to ass around with." I got a good chuckle out of that.

I went out today at about 9:00 and the head was ready to come off by noon. Considering it took me about 22-25 total hours to get the head off the first time, I was pretty excited to have it off with less than five hours into it total. So after taking the cams out, I flipped 'er over to check the valves. There were 5 that were obviously bent. So in a box she went and off to a local machine shop so I dont have to wait another month for my dads friend to ass around with it. (;)) He said he would take the valves out tomorrow and see whats up. Another thing that happened today that kinda pissed me off, I was taking the lifters/rocker arms out and guess what? The head went to my dads friends shop with 16 DSM lifters, it came back with 15 and one oddball. I didnt notice before, but its a little shorter than the other ones and it has like a 5mm hole on top compared to the 1mm dsm ones. I dont know whats going on, I think I can get just one from Auto Value so I think I'll do that. Now that I am over being mad/sad about it, I am good with it. Yeah, I fucked up. Now I know to double and triple check that fuckin washer ;). I dont know, I like workin on cars too much. Do you know how suprised my dad was when it started an hour after I got the vital shit back on? He thought I would be trouble shooting for a few days/weeks before it would run. Well, I hope I proved I'm not a stupid 18 year old that doesnt know what hes doing. Obviously I'm not perfect and now I have an extra machine shop bill to prove that, but money is no object right now. Not like I have all the money in the world to throw at it, but I can deal with an extra $100 in parts to make it run again. They were barely bent, I doubt the vavle guides are f'd. Now I gotta start collecting more speed parts :D. Live and learn I guess.

EDIT: The valves left some kisses on the tops of the pistons... that is ok right? The arent big gouges, but you can see where they hit. What about having some new valves and some old? Is that ok? I am a cheap bastard, I can get them from rockauto.com for about have of what Auto Value charges. Since I am waiting for the cams (STILL didnt ship yet, fuckin bastards dont buy from hp trucks) I can wait another week for the valves to get here.

EDIT #2: I just got an email from FedEx, the cams are on the way :D. I also just checked rockauto, I think I will just have Auto Value get the vales. They are a couple bucks each cheaper, but theres a $17 shipping fee too and waiting on the shipping. Auto Value FTW.

The pistons are almost always fine. Based on your description I would just run it.

Damn, bent valves. That sucks. Well, atleast you had it running a little while. Good luck with it, you'll get it right.

when ever you get the chance, I would like to buy some parts lol. pics are always helpful. good luck with your car

Its not a problem to run some new and some old valves, I'm doing it right now. If you want I can get you valves for $12 and ship them to you

Thats ok, they are $8.25 for intake and $10.68 for exhaust ones plus shipping from roackauto or like $10 and $12 from Auto Value, but they will be here next day. I think I am going to just do that, may be a bit more expensive but I just want to get the head done and on my fuckin car. The cams are going to be here on Friday so by Saturday night that car will be on the road and with a few more hp and a bumpy idle. I am very excited, I cant wait to get the DSM some good, easy honda ass ;).

I do have a question though. With the FP2's and a big16g, how much boost can I run before the stock fuel system wont suffice?

EDIT: Well, I am in the middle of buying some more fun stuff for the talon. I am talking with a guy as we speak about buying his 3" catback, if I get it I will then order a downpipe as well. Also, theres a FMIC setup I am lookign at. 28x9x3 core with one of those "universal" kits for like $230 shipped. So my 3" exhaust, MBC, boost, oil pressure, and water temp guages, and FMIC setup are soon going to be crossed off the list :D. That doesnt leave much, I decided to stick with the big 16g until it blows up. Then I need to lower it, get a big tach, underbodies, racing seats, and get it repainted and my project talon will be done!

EDIT #2: I just got new vavle seals and valves from SBR and had them 2 day air'd so they should be here by Friday for sure. All 16 vlaves were bent, but only 5 were really noticable. Thankfully the guides are ok, that would have been a bitch. All I need is the valves and seals and she'll be good. It will be on the road by Sunday, god dammit!

Also, I am getting that guys brand new megan catback for like $280 shipped. As soon as we confirm and I figure out what I need to pay the machine shop, I will order the DP and test pipe. I am in kind of a delema. He also is willing to sell mee a brand new set of AGX's for $200. I have money, but I wasnt going to lower it for a while. Should I do it?

wait to lower it, but are you sure you want to go with megan cat back? i had it and it was straight through junk.... IMO

Then I need to lower it, get a big tach, underbodies, racing seats, and get it repainted and my project talon will be done!




:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

I'm getting an all black 5" Autometer tach also. With the shift light and everything! I think its cool.

ummm don't you already have a tach installed in the gauge pod?:screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screw y::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy: :screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::s crewy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::scr ewy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screw y::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy: :screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::s crewy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::scr ewy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screw y::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy: :screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::s crewy::screwy::screwy::banghead::disappoin:disappo in:disappoin:disappoin:disappoin:disappoin:disappo in:disappoin

ummm don't you already have a tach installed in the gauge pod?:screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screw y::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy: :screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::s crewy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::scr ewy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screw y::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy: :screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::s crewy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::scr ewy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screw y::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy: :screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::s crewy::screwy::screwy::banghead::disappoin:disappo in:disappoin:disappoin:disappoin:disappoin:disappo in:disappoin

possibly the worst post ever lol

ummm don't you already have a tach installed in the gauge pod?

Yea, but that ones going to get disconnected. But anyway, two is always better than one.

Thor you say all 16 valves were bent, but only 5 were really noticeable...you didn't just replace the 5 really bent ones and leave the rest did you? Also before you start throwing on all those exterior parts, where does the fuel system come into play?

Yes, I like big tachs and underbodies. Fuck me :D.

Yeah, I definately got a full 16 valve set. The compression was only down about 10 psi in the first hole but down to none in the second, so I figured I better do it right. The machine shop guy said they were all bent so I trust him. Getting the set of 16 wasnt all that much more than just having auto value get the 5 that were really fucked. I got the whole set of valves and seals for $160 with the $30 for 2 day shipping, it would have cost me like $90 for the 5 really bent fuckers and seals from auto value or like $250 for what I got from SBR.

Garrett, I thought that I said after the speed parts all I had left to do was the exterior stuff. I will go a little out of order, but for the most part, the speed comes first. I was actually thinking about this, I think I know what all I want to do before I consider this project done. Here's the list:
Pending/on the way: 3" exhuast, cams, boost/oil pressure, water temp guages
Engine: FMIC, MBC, 680's, 190, DSMlink, and a SBR 50 trim or Evo III 16g if I blow the big 16g.
Drivetrain: lightweight flywheel?, ACT 2600, SBR 3500 or an exedy twin disk (opinions?)
Suspension: I dont care as long as its lowered, front/rear strut tower bars
Interior: System? Not big if any, just enough for some music and a little bit of bump, racing seats w/ 4 pt harness, 5" tach
Exterior: New paint, unbroken front bumper, fixed rust, tint, and PURPLE UNDERBODIES

This summer I plan on taking some of the less expensive ones out of the way. I almost bought DSMlink from a guy yesterday but I have a hard time justifying it right now since I barely have any of the minor mods done. Right now for the summer I am planning on getting the 3" exhaust, FMIC, guages (not tach unless I find a really good deal, that shit is expensive), underbodies, lowering stuff, MBC, and the 190. I am getting the catback for like $280, then I will need to get the test pipe and down pipe (~$180), the boost/oil pressure/water temp guages for $115, underbodies for like $50 (cheapest eBay shit I can find :D), JoeP MBC $40, 190 for $100, my buddies used lowering shit for like $200, and the FMIC setup for like $230 shipped (ebay core 28x9x3 and "universal" piping). Its kinda a lot of money and hopefully I can get it done by the middle of July. I still have grad money and I get paid in a week, I think I can knock most of it off by then. I just want have some fun. The more and more I think about modding this car, the less my setup seems to become. It started with a street setup with 10 second E/T's and slowly whittled down to a low 12. I am now realizing how much money it takes to do this and how freakin cheap I am sometimes. Once the whole project is done (hopefully two summers from this one) I think I will have a pimp ass car to cruise in. I kinda want all this done by like July 19, thats when my buddy and I are going to the cities to stay with his brother until the 23rd. I am driving :D. I am going to hit up the DSMstyle meet at DB on the 23rd and I wanted to have a little respect from them. And it would be pretty cool to show the guy I bought the car from what I have been up to.

The pistons are almost always fine. Based on your description I would just run it.

Yeah i think it should be fine, I bent a few valves. and i just got me a rebuilt head for 180, the shop wanted to charge me about 550 to rebuilt it. right now i'm a little scared to floor it, but i will for sure when i go to rockfalls on july 9th. and if it survives then i'll add some more go fast parts.

Guess what Thor got in the mail today? A bumpy idle and mean growl! Looky looky:
http://x2.putfile.com/6/17214561824-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17214561824.jpg&s=x2)
http://x2.putfile.com/6/17215095624-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17215095624.jpg&s=x2)
Finally got the damned Comp 101200's/FP2's that I ordered 1 month ago today. Fuckin bastards didnt even give me the free t shirt they said they would. Oh well, they're here now. I wonder why Comp says they give an extra 35 hp? Oh I see, look at those bastardly profiles! Fuck guys, I cant wait to hear my car after the cams and exhaust.

So what do I do now? Throw the cam gears on, set the timing and away we go?

sweet...

So what do I do now? Throw the cam gears on, set the timing set the timing set the timing set the timing set the timing and away we go?

Yes, just leave the bending the valves part out of it this time ;)

hey I know this is offtopic Thor, but I see that you want 680cc injectors. The only company I know of that makes 680cc are PTE (these are the injectors I have), and I would not recommend you get them. They didn't fit properly, and I've been researching them some more and it appears that many of them actually flow 650cc's which isn't that big of a deal it's still enough fuel, but it becomes a problem when trying to get the right a/f. Stay away from these injectors if at all possible.

Garrett: Did I tell you guys how I bent all the valves? I forgot to put that damn washer back on before the crank sprocket nut and the sprocket walked off. Not a good deal, but atleast it didnt happen when I was out on the road. Valves will be here tomorrow, they head will get reassembled when I am at work from 11-4, and I will go do a marathon install, not coming home until its done. It took 5 hours to get out, getting the car done by 1 shouldnt be a big deal.

crunchy: Holy hell, thanks man. I appreciate that. I had no reason other than the most fuel I am going to go is what can be supplied by a 190 and I thought that the 680's were matched to the fuel output of the 190. The only reason I want a 190 is because I dont want to do a lower end rebuild and I figure that a 190 will only let me flow enough fuel for like 380 hp (right?) and that is just on the high side of my comfort zone on stock internals. That and AFPR setups are like $250 used and I am a cheapass :). I think I am going to stay on the big 16g until it blows and when it does an Evo III will go in there so I wont ever need more than a 190. Good lookin out man, will 650's be enough?

yeah FIC 650s or denso 660s would be your best bet. They match up fine with the 190.

Only problem I see is that a 190 doesn't support an EVO 16g very well. It's right on the edge though, you can most likely get away with it.

Ok, well, I wouldnt be boostin the shit out of it. I sorta plan on staying with the 1g BOV so I will be leaking at like 22psi anyway. Those are the two limits I set for myself, 190 and stock BOV. Keep the power and pressure down, and ultimately the cost. Not like a BOV and FPR is a big deal, but realistically I wont ever put either to good use. I wont be flowing enough air to need that much fuel and I wont ever run that much pressure where the BOV will be leaking. I've ridden in a stock TSI AWD during a launch. Pretty sure that once I get cams, exhaust and boost up, I wont want a whole lot more until I can tame that beast.

I have a fuel system question while we are on it. I will be getting this 190 here pretty soon, right after the smoke settles from ordering my exhaust and machine shop bills. My question is, now that I will have a higher flowing pump, when will the 450's not be enough? How must boost can I run on a Big 16g with cams on 450's? I wish I just had like 3 grand, I could just buy the list and be done, but at the same time, I want to make as much power as I can at each level.

The stock 1g bov I ran started to leak at 6-8 psi, so I guess you won't be boosting much at all :D I still ran 25 psi on the 14b with it.

With cams, the EVO 16gs max out at 19 psi at redline.

The 450s will support about 33 lbs/min on pump gas. The 16g should do that at about 14 psi or so IIRC. If you max out the turbo (on purpose or by accident) you'll see IDCs of 129%, which will equate to an AFR of 14.3:1. ;)

:lol: Kevin, you amaze me. Thats cool though, doesnt the 14b on stock boost flow 22 lbs/min? Fuck, well looks like I am SOL on making more power until I get some DSMlink action. I thought the 1g BOV's held boost until ~22 psi when crushed? Kevin, so the 190 IS or ISNT enough for the evoIII 16g? I guess, I really dont want to have to spend that extra $250 if I dont have too, maybe I just wont max it out ever. Let me gather my thoughts here a minute... input appreciated guys :).

So I will be basically out of room power wise on my stock fuel shit, so that should be my next course of action. I know a guy that has a 90 ECU with the DSMlink stuff for sale for $700, I could get some 650's or 660's for probably like $150-$200, and a 190 for $100. Damn, thats almost a grand. However, I could get rid of my other ECU for like $200, that exhaust manifold and calipers could go too. So It might not be too bad after all. But I need a computer. My parents are getting me one for graduation, but I dont know when I can actually get it. I guess after the link, injectors, and pump all I have left to get is an MBC and FMIC and I can call her good for speed stuff.

Or I can do a no-no and get a SAFC. I know a guy that has a cable for a pocketlogger I could buy for cheap, I have a Palm pilot, have the ECU socketed (or do it myself, I can solder), and buy a used SAFC for like $200.

Or I can lower it and put the underbodies on and just have some fun a while.

Or I can just call 'er good for a bit. God damn, I am sick of spending money, but I want a fast car too. :(

Just for a bit of an update, I got the head back on today. Shes all ready to go except timing. Cams are in and looking pretty :D.

Kevin, so the 190 IS or ISNT enough for the evoIII 16g? I guess, I really dont want to have to spend that extra $250 if I dont have too, maybe I just wont max it out ever.

The 190 should be enough for what you're looking at, but the 450's won't be. But that also depends on how much boost you are actually running and how much you want to push shit till it breaks.

Yeah dude. If I look hard enough, I should be able to find a 190 for like $50, just found 650's for $120, and hopefull I can sell my EPROM for like $200 before I buy that guys. That and after selling my calipers and exhaust manifold, my out of pocket cost shoudld be down to like $600. Not too bad I guess, but I want to hang on to some money at the same time! GAH! Maybe I will just go for it, get the link, injectors, pump, FMIC, boost/oil pressure gauges, and MBC and then not spend any more money. And maybe I will sell drugs and my body on the street for some extra cash. Or do brake jobs.

I Would just go for it. I have run both setups, and the DSMlink is worth twice what it costs. Do it once, do it right, no regrets ;)

My buddy Ricer just upgraded his 190 to a 255 to be safe with his evo3 16g. He'll probably let it go cheap. I'll ask him tomorrow. The 190 is barely enough for that turbo, when maxed out.

Yeah, in al reality though, I probably wont max it out. But if you could ask him for me that would be sweet. Its a 1g AWD right?

I think I am just going for it. I'm going to try to do some extra stuff on the side for some extra cash and just do it. I've been dreaming about this for sooo long, I cant just let it pass me by.

Just a little update on the progress of the Talon. Got the cams on the head and the head on the block, got timing set and everything back to good besides the accessory belts. Suddenly I had a bad feeling. Tried to start, cranks, but wont start. Did a compression test, cylinder 1 had like 130. Cylinder 3 had like 25. I was like, what the hell, so we relieved it and did it again. None. So now I am pissed as hell, now I have to rip the head off. Did compression in the second cylinder, it was like 135. The battery was nearly dead but there was some compression in cylinder 4. Also found the big connector by the coil wasnt all the way on so we had no spark. Plugged it back on, got spark and tried to start it. Sure enough, it fired up but it was missing pretty bad due to the lack of cylinder 3. So fuck. I was very VERY careful on the timing procedure, theres no way a valve hit. Also, the head was torqued down to 70 ft/lbs all the way around.

Any ideas why theres no compression?

I was thinking: A) maybe one of the valves is just too long and never closes *crosses fingers* or B) a valve is bent. Anyone have any exotic ideas? I am going to pull the head tomorrow and give it a looky-looky. A long valve wont be hard to see at all, neither will a bent one. I cant really think of anything else that could have gone wrong. If anyone has any insight, please shed some light for me. Also, the machinist pressure tested them, he said they all held air.

Its possible that one isnt seating properly due to poor grinding
EDIT: it they all held air that means that A. he is lying to cover his ass or B. its your bottom end, and maybe C. you fucked up again, but most likely a or b

Every valve problem I've seen results in 0 psi. 25 psi is more likely to be the HG. Might as well run it a bit, try to retorque the studs, and see if it comes back. If not, try another HG. A stock compsote HG might be your best bet if you don't know the quality of the resurface on the head.

Its possible that one isnt seating properly due to poor grinding
EDIT: it they all held air that means that A. he is lying to cover his ass or B. its your bottom end, and maybe C. you fucked up again, but most likely a or b
yeah i think some of them is not closing properly, i had the same problem with my head, the guy told me that it came out a runing car but i just wanted to double-check and started turning the cams with the head off the car and i had my with a flash light on the side where the valves meet the piston and if one wasnt closing all the way, you could see the light through(sp) the intake-exhaust ports.
You cold try try blowing some air in the ports, for the intake you will need to cover the fuek injector hole with your finger.

I know the resurface was decent, it had good compression before I fucked up.

Maybe Kevin is right, the first time I put the head back on, it had like 75 psi in the first hole and worked its way up to 135+ after running/trying to start a while. Maybe I will run it for a few seconds and do another one, see if maybe it comes up. If not, the head is coming off today and I will do that flashlight trick. Man I hope its not the bottom end. If you guys see my obit in the paper tomorrow you will know why ;). I'll be back around 11 or midnight with updates and a shit ton of questions.

I'll be here waiting :wink:

Well, ripping the head off went especially well today, it was off within like 2 hours. I decided to come home for some food and to let you guys know whats going on and start unloading the questions. :)

First off, I just want to say a huge thanks to you guys for your help on this head project but also everything I have ever needed, especially Kevin, Scott, Garrett, and crunchy. Without your guidance this project would have never gone anywhere (I guess its only gone abou 10 feet so far, but thats 10 feet more than it would have with out your help! ;))

Ok, on to business. So after the head came off, I got to investigating. After wiping a little oil that accidentally fell in the cylinders when the head was coming off, I started to look and tinker. First thing I noticed was that there was quite a bit of oil in the cylinder in question. There was more in there because when I was taking the head off I had to rest it on an angle for a minute while I changed grip. Well, there was quite a bit in there, enough to basically cover the top of the piston. Well, if the bottom end shit in that hole was bad enough to have 0 compression, wouldnt the oil quickly drain through? It didnt, and that was one of the better cylinders valve ding wise so I am hard pressed to believe its the bottom end there. Then I set the head on two chairs so the valves were facing down and the manifolds were on the chair seats. I then turned each cam so that the both the intake and exhaust valves in that cylinder would seat on the trouble cylinder (cylinder 3). Well, no valves were obviously bent, they all seemed to seat really well. To test this I am going to go out there, take off the manifolds, and flash a light into the port on the head. Then I will go under the head and if no light, they are seating good right? I think if I'm not seeing any light, its the head gasket right? There was a piece of shit on that hard black sealing stuff on the top of the head gasket itself (the piece of shit on there looked kinda like that black sealing stuff, but there wasnt any missing around the gasket) on part of the gasket near the 3rd cylinder. Also, there seems to be some dirt n' shit on the gasket, particularly between the layers of the head gasket. Any ideas for cleaning? Can I even clean it? Theres a pretty high pressure sprayer at McDonalds, I can use that. Should I just order a new one? If so, its going to be a composite one from auto value, no more of this metal shit for me. I should have just stayed with the composite one I had but I wasnt sure if I was going to go big or not then. Right now, my $20 goes on the head gasket. I'll let you guys know how the light test goes and we'll go from there.

Another update on the status of my plans for this car. Yes, they still entail the whole list in my sig. But when they get here is another story. I'm thinking that I will pick up Kevin's friends pump if hes selling it and those $120 650's if he ever gets back to me, but I think I am going to wait on link and putting the 650's in until later. I just want to have fun right now, I think cruising and having fun is more important than a 12 sec ET right now. I have a buddy that will probably give me a good deal for his used lowering stuff, the underbodies are like $50 shipped on eBay, and I can get automoeter oil pressure, boost, and water temp guage all in carbon fiber faces for $115 and I think thats about all I am going to get for now. I still have like a month before its too late to get link, but at this rate with only $400 every 2 weeks from McDonalds and having to buy shit for college, I cant be tossing it all into the DSM. Besides, a stock DSM is fuckin greased lightning compared to what I am used to, and with the BCS mod on the big 16g, cams, and exhaust, I think she'll be quick enough for a while. Right now, she needs to run and I need to get used to having more than 16 whp :p. Any ides what it'll be close to power wise on my current setup?

Thats all from me for now, I will head back out and check with that light and see whats going on, then I'll be back.

I know its a little late now but you should have done a leak down test before you pulled the head and that would have pretty much told you where you're leaking from. Sorry I didnt mention it earlier. there and limited ways you can loose compression, rings, hole in the piston, bent valve or to generalize it more a valve that isnt seating properly due to bad grinding weak spring bad seat ect, bad head gasket, and a cracked head/block are the only ones I can think of. I would focus on the gasket because the machienest "checked" the head and its probably no the bottom end.

After re-reading your first post, I would either rule it being the head gasket not seating properly or the valves not seating properly because you had good pressure in that cylinder before, so it's most likely not the rings or bottom end. I agree with Kevin though, usually leaky valves either hold pressure, or they don't, it's not like a ring leak, they will hold a high amount or it will be 0. Your best (and probably most cheapest) bet right now would be to try an OEM headgasket.

Well, a the flashlight test results are in... neither of the intake valves were seating properly! Yay, isnt that fucking exciting? Atleast in the 3rd cylinder, all the others were fine. Well atleast we know what it is now. I was confused as to why the hg could be it since there was like 135psi of pressure in each cylinder before it had even run a bit to seat the gasket better. I dont know, I am kinda ticked, but you know what? I really dont care too much anymore. $20-$30 for a couple new valves doesnt bother me right now, niether does the fact that I have to do a bunch more work putting it back on. I just dont care right now. I just want it to fuckin run. So when I get these new valves, do I have to have them grinded? If so, do the seats and the valves need to be grinded or can I just get the valves done since the seats have been grinded twice since the car has run? Any ideas on cleaning the head gasket? I think I made it out to be worse than it really is, theres no real visible dirt, you can just hear it sorta crunching when the gasket gets torqued.

New set of questions. The Apexi down pipe is on its way, it'll be here Tuesday, then I just have to wait for the exhaust. Well, its already going to be emissions illegal, why not keep going? ;) My questions are: the tuners "free mods" list says to just remove and cap the 4 lines coming from the TB. So which vac lines are really needed? What about the EGR? Just bolt on a block off plate? Any ill side effects of doing either of these removals?

I dont have any emmisions on my car and the only ill effect is a little worse gas milage. valves should always be grinded even if they are new. The seal can be checked between the valve and the seat and if its good there is no reason to regrind the seat. Oh and score one for me :)

If I ever picked up a head in this condition the machinist would be getting kicked in the balls. Thank God I have a machinist I can trust, all this running around is reminding me of the days when I was getting 3-4 shit heads in a row. The guy doing the assembly should be leak testing the valves. Basically they leave the cams out, and fill the ports or the combustion chambers with a fluid and look for leaks (usually alcohol). I'm now also inclined to not trust this guys preparation of the head surface, going to a Mitsu composite gasket may be a good idea. For what it's worth, I ran that gasket all the way down to my 11.3 at 126. Much more forgiving of poor head surface finish RA.

Well, the original valve job and head planing was done by a different machinist in a different town. This is exactly why I wish I had a million dollars. I would buy a machine shop, lift, big garage, and every tool I could find, then one big fuckin lock for the door. I absolutely HATE other people working on my shit. I think I am going to pull those two valves out, have a different machinist see if they are bent, if so then I order two new ones. Do new valves need to be ground before being put in? If they dont, this is going to be easy and cheap, I'll just get new valves and do it on Wednesday.

OT: We are having a hard time finding a good cheap car for my brother and my dad thinks the Talon would be a good first car for him. Direct quote after I told him its a little too much car for a new driver: "Ahhh well its still just a two - oh" :D. Cant wait to take him for a ride.