b16a vs. ZC vs. Sohc Vtec?

Well I know we have a new post on the forum everyweek for the ongoing debate of which engine is better... However I am still trying to figure out what to go with.. Right now it is looking like a rebuilt ZC with new pistons and rods.. + many more mods.. However I am still considering the b16a.. But even more have come to a tough decision between the ZC and the SOHC vtec.. I cannot find price quotes on the pistons and rods.. But I am figuring they will cost $800 with a new head gasket and rings... Is that right? Anyone know where to get cams for the ZC? I know the SOHC VTEC has lots of aftermarket support because it is an Si engine.. I was quoted yesterday on the swap price for the b16a into my car was $5250 I do not want to drop that much on a stock engine.... If it was cleanly rebuilt that would be cool, with a port and polish and 3 angle valve job.. I might understand but that was just to swap the thing in... They said it looks factory installed after the swap though... The labor on the ZC would be $600-$700... $300 without rebuild and port and polish labor... How much would it cost to port and polish a SOHC VTEC head? Anywayz just wanted to see what every1 I mean every1 had to say on the subject.

i say d series... the d16a6 (-vtec) or d16y8/d16z6 (+vtec). i'm not a fan of the ZC because it needs to be rebuilt. i personally went with the d16y8 because it came out of an '00 Ex with only 12,000 miles. i wanted more hp than the a6 but also wanted something reliable for the long haul. i had a 300,000 '90 accord that ran better than any car i have ever owned. if i treat the y8 right...i'll be able to use it for the next 15 years ;)

i really don't think you need to go all crazy with rods, pistons, and port & polish. get a thicker head gasket...build the turbo set up correctly...tune it up...and you should be good to go. check out: turbo link (http://www.thedropshop.tv/vafc.htm) to read about the set-up on a 230,000 mile d series.

it really depends on if you want a daily driver that could be taken to the track...or a serious race car you're trying to squeeze every last hp out of.

ami

You wanna tell me where I could find an SOHC VTEC with little mileage?

Originally posted by QuickSilverEF9
You wanna tell me where I could find an SOHC VTEC with little mileage?

first off, QuickSilverEF9, i'm sorry. that post was more for anybody who read your post with the same question in mind than for you. i know that you know my view point :D. sorry i forgot to mention that in my reply.

the place i'm gonna suggest is also the place i'd suggest for a b16 swap, zc swap, or any hybrid tech info. thedropshop (http://www.thedropshop.tv/)

i originally contacted him for a ZC myself. he gave me the choice between a 48,000 ZC and 12,000 y8. my deciding factor was that all the previous places i called for a price quote suggested i rebuild the zc before i drop it in. i know from previous experience 12,000 miles is a newborn baby when talking USDM honda.

I just finished a nice long email asking the drop shop what the best route for going turbo would be :). If i drive out to cali to have him install my turbo system you should come by and show me your hatch :sun: .. That won't be for awhile though. I think I will just not but si front seats, JDM rear seats and upholstering them. Thats like $1000 right there. So I think I will do that last along with the power windows... by october I hope to have...

1JDM front conversion $950
2.Hood, Fenders, Filler, Front, rear bumper, side moldings painted, lip $400
3. Jsracing lip spoiler $200
4. Kick Panels $40 shipped
5. JDM rear spoiler $100
6. JDM rear Lights $110
7. JDM fog lights and switch $50
8. H & R OE springs .75 drop $149
9. Bilstein front shocks. Rear struts. $350
10. Suspension installation and alignment $250

So pending the SOHC vs. ZC decision I could have it in by december and tuboed by march....
Also what suspension work have you done to your hatch? I am trying to figure out what shocks and struts to put on. I heard tokicos suck.. I want either Bilsteins or Konis... Any suggestions on that would also be helpful.

I'd say do the B16A1. I'm doing that swap hopefully begining of next year. I've been quoted $3400 for the basic swap with new everything except the engine which will have less than 40,000 miles on it. The B16A1 has so much more potential than any of the other d engines. But it also depends on how much power you want. I'm hoping for 350 HP when I'm done, and that would take a ton of work to get a D series up there. So it depends on what you want. But the B16 already starts you at 160 HP instead of 135 and less.

Nick
4G4D Store

yeah ive been quoted $3000 for a b16 swap. and thats everything.

but yeah you start out with 160hp adn thats more than you can get out of you sohc vtec. but if you cant go b16, get the sohc vtec. like whoever said before the aftermarket for the sohc vtec is endless. by be honest idk why anyone goes with the zc

It is dohc and there is more potential in the head tuning. I would go b16a but the only place that will do it in kansas charges $5200 thats a basic swap with new everything, all fluids, lines, hoses, belts, clutch assembly. They do great work it looks like honda orignally intended that engine to be there. I would go b16a but I am not gonna break my wallet when I could produce more horse and especially more torque than the b16a for less. A turbo b16 with the drag turbo put out 283 horse and 190 torque.. the d series with the on it put out 173horse 152 torque..... The b16a does not have any torque... you want b series go ls vtec or a crv block with a vtec head.. Then talk about 350 horse.. You are going to have to drop alot of money into that b16a to get it to 350. Me i just want a daily driver that can spank mustang GTs and older 5.0s.. Not to mention the cheap ricers around here. neons, cavaliers, probes... etc etc etc.. + hondas that have been mistreated by having every cheap rice part on it. I saw b16a swaps going for $2800-3000 in cali but I can't just go to cali for a few weeks while they swap it in..

I guess I could go out to cali and have the drop shop swap it in they only charge $3000 for a basic swap but like I said I am in highschool I don't have that kind of time. Plus my boss would kill me.. The money I make to pay for my modifications would not be possible at a job that is blue collar. :devil: The swap would end up at about $3700 after taxes though because I also need to be converted to 5spd manual.

I found a D16Y8 from a '98 EX at the local salvage yard, with less than 8000 miles on the clock. Apparently, someone bought the car and wrecked it shortly thereafter, and it's been sitting on a shelf for 3 years. All for $900. So that's the route that I'm going.

My reasons are:
1.) Found one with low-milage for relatively cheap.
2.) Bolts directly in without having to modify the mounts, crossmember, etc.
3.) Allows me to use my existing headers/intake, etc.
4.) I don't have to mess with axels or tranny or any of that.
5.) I don't have to have it shipped.
6.) I can use the opportunity to learn by doing an easier transplant and then later, swap a B16 or something. (most likely, I'll just turbo though)
7.) Due to the low milage, it'll be like owning a whole new car.
8.) A little bit of extra horse power/torque.

My 2 centz

I would do the SOHC VTEC just for the price. I mean, I can get a b16 swap for $2700, or I can get a d16z6 swap for less than $600. Sure you won't have as much HP as the b16, but you'd have $2,000 more to spend on that d16. There's a lot you can do with $2,000 and there's plenty of aftermarket support for either engine.

Originally posted by QuickSilverEF9
I guess I could go out to cali and have the drop shop swap it in they only charge $3000 for a basic swap but like I said I am in highschool I don't have that kind of time.

ummm, dropshop is in NH! i'm in OR, you can bring your car to me for 2-3 days :devil: you'll have a fun trip home!

ami

Originally posted by ci5ic
I found a D16Y8 from a '98 EX


Hey, i have a question, the d16y8 from 96-98 does not come with vtec rite? because my friend has a 98 EX and the head does not say Vtec. i thought vtec only came in the 92-95 ex and Si and the 99-00 ex. Please correct me if i am wrong!

Originally posted by MyFirst4G


Hey, i have a question, the d16y8 from 96-98 does not come with vtec rite? because my friend has a 98 EX and the head does not say Vtec. i thought vtec only came in the 92-95 ex and Si and the 99-00 ex. Please correct me if i am wrong!

i have to correct ya :D my valve cover doesn't say vtec. i have to point it out to people who think i'm full of shit all the time. if you would like, i could post pics :hehe:

Na I am not going b16 its between ZC and SOHC VTEC... If I can find a low mileage d16y8 I will deffinatly do it.. I found one for $1000 on ebay but it has 50k on it..... If I swap a d16y8 it has to be low mileage. But for now I am thinking ZC..... the LSD sounds minghty good so does the DOHC factor.. No offense but I can sqeeze alot more power out of a DOHC head than an sohc head.. Although the Vtec would be nice for higher RPMS.. I think I should test drive both and give my 2 cents from that. Hmm decisions decisions....

Pretty sure I answer this all the time: "none of the above" :)

B18C5 or B18C7 (from the VTiR 'teg). More power and torque than a B16A and a much better starting point IMO.

If only I had the guts to drop one into the SiR :)

I chose the ZC cuz I got a good deal...do I think I'd do it again ? prolly not...Much easier to find a young d16y8 from a wrecked car and go that route:) More practical IMO for a daily driver..

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi


i have to correct ya :D my valve cover doesn't say vtec. i have to point it out to people who think i'm full of shit all the time. if you would like, i could post pics :hehe:

Yea, so i am still confused... does the 96-98 d16y8 have VTEC or not? because i can get a 98 d16y8 for real cheap!!! Thanks!

Yes, the D16Y8 is SOHC Vtec.

Originally posted by ci5ic
Yes, the D16Y8 is SOHC Vtec.

Okay, so all Civic Ex's from 96-00 has a d16y8 and they are all Vtec, am i right?

to clear it up for everybody...please stop by: engine codes (http://tech.hybridgarage.com/tech/specs.htm)

you'll find all the specs from engine code to hp.

enjoy! :D

im glad i live where i do, a shop around where i live said they could do the full b16 swap for about 2,300 (more or less-hopfully less) i could probably do a gsr swap for 5,200 or less

Yeah well the midwest just sucks!

I could do a b16b Civic Type R w/ a LSD for less than 5200....www.hondamotorsonline.com

Originally posted by QuickSilverEF9
Yeah well the midwest just sucks!

FUCK YOU! ;) Man not to say but chicago got the HOOK UPS! Garage Kwai is the number one swap shop in the mid west and they know there shit! They do the whole complete swap for 3200 ..they change timing belt and water pump and more stuff i think.I would also say Drivers Image buy they are way too expensive cause they rather have u get a USDM engine then a JDM and they don't order JDM from what they told me! IF anything i have 2 good friends that can swap u a b16 for 350 bucks and they can get it done in one day or 2. Its much closer than cali and New Hampshire! They do it as a side job and don't say "well its a side job and i have no garauntees " well if u get it done from out of state then how would get it there? Give this company a call Eric Japan Engines Inc
(773) 463-8108

I bought my complete b16 with tranny and ecu for 1087.50 with tax! Man trust b16 is much worth it. IF you can afford then go for it!

My freind has a SOHC VTEC and I have a ZC. The swap was a direct bolt in, no ECU mods, etc.... Plug and play with the exceotion of the Integra axels and intermediate shaft. Seems to have a little more "grunt" than my friends SOHC and has alot less torque steer. Mine has been in for almost a year and has been trouble free. On a cruise to Pensacola a couple weeks ago, I got 40.51 MPG with a PM6 ECU. She runs stronger with a PM7 but, I'm all about fuel economy these days. My vote is for the JDM ZC.

B-Series without question

Wow this thread is 3 yrs old. Memories....

w00t for us old timers left! :cheers:

i voted for the single cam vtec. I went with a d16z6 in my crx. its a very easy swap and it starts out with 135 horsepower. I know the b series start at like 160 and upward. Unless your looking for a shit load of power (500+) i don't think you need the b series. Plus the B is also heavier then the d creating more understeer. Just make sure you set real goals based on your budget and needs (we can all dream up 600-700 horsepower engine put i know i can't afford most of them) later

I vote sohc non-vtec d16 with super light weight components...

heh personally I love my D16a vtec, its pretty wicked for a mostly stock d

Step your games up....B series

mmm my f22b1 is quick enough for me ^_^

Ill take my B over a D anyday.

Anyone realize that this thread is 2.5 yrs old?

yes sir...

yeah, just thought while it was up i'd throw in my 2 cents

ZC all the way man

Somebody kill this poor thread. Its in pain....I know some of you do but to the rest of you that ask the same questions over and over and over again. Do you know what the f@^$ing search option is for. Holly cow people do some research you will find your answers you lazy MOFO's this is why 2.5 yr old threads come back up from the dead. Or why you get smart ass answers to your question nobody likes repeating the same answers NO NOBODY LIKES REPEATING THE SAME ANSWERS. See I hated doing that but I had to cause you people dont understand that so I had to show you and tell you like if we where in kindergarden or some shit. ah much better time for bed now.

My Rant is over untill the next post I see with a question that can be found with search. Call me Mr. USE SEARCH OPTION. (not talking about this thread it just brought up the last 40 like in the last 6 months just like it)

B16a without a doubt. I paid $2415 CDN for my engine, tranny, billet mounts, computer, linkage and axels. rented an engine crane for a day and put it in in my driveway. My car hauls alot of ass now. I thought my old d series was quick, now i just laugh at them. there is nothing like running third up to 140 pulling harder and harder all the way up...

b-series has way more potential, but is more expensive. for a small budget i would go ZC over the sohc. i have never had to rebuild one, unless i was upgrading and you can get one for like $400. WEB-CAM makes good zc cams. webcamshafts.com

WTF WOULD YOU GUYS QUIT BRING UP OLD THREADS (YES IM YELLING CAN YOU HEAR ME) focken newbiees

harder and harder all the way up...
UH oo a naughty newbie!! me i would have to choose the b16. im building a killer B and its just getting more exciting week by week and its not even installed yet! but the z6 will always be on mind and on hand (reliable)

Do you know what the f@^$ing search option is for.

yes, they do...that is how this old thread was brought up. you get upset when they don't search, you get upset when they do search and revive a dead thread, you get upset when....wait, do really need a reason to get upset? :evillol:

this can be debated by anybody. the best engine set-up for any 1 person varies due to money, the amount of time invested, and the over all HP goal.

i have both a sohc vtec y8 and a b16 in my family. i chose the y8 over dohc zc because i have personally seen more unreliable zc's than reliable zc's over the years and that ended up being the final factor for my decision to buy zc or y8.

as for b series pulls on d series... :thumbsdow that isn't always the case. we swapped a y8 into a customer's hatch last summer. this summer he went for turbo. that particular set-up will eat stock b16's up. of course he would be killed by any built b16, but that wasn't his goal. which brings me back to the point of money, time, and personal goal makes different options for different people.

ho / I have a 1990 handa crx hf I also was going to put a b16 in to the car but at the last secound i changed my mind and i am happy to say that it was the best thing i have done I put the dohc zc in to the car along with the jdm zc tranny i have put only $3900 in the motor and the tranny i have ported and polished and shaved the head 30 thousends stock springs and retainers i also have adjustable cam gears but stock cams and in the bottom end all i have is 10'5'1 compression 40 over pistons every thing else in the bottom end is stock with the head the compression is 12'1 i also have a aem cold air intake and dc header and alum flywheel with a six puck clutch and a apexi safc i just put on the dyno 173 hp 166 tr my friend has a 93 civic hatchback with a b16 turbo 16psi apexi vafc he dynoed at 193hp 169tr and spent with the motor over $8000 and no when we race at the track either in 8th mile or 1/4 mile i always spank him also on the highway i win amazingly my cars top speed is 163mph i can beat the new c6 corvettes all day long so i think the best way to go for the money is the zc thanks for reading any ? let me know. :

can i get what your smokin?

what do you mean what am i smokin i have the time slipes to prove it and the dyno sheets .

post em up then...and theres no way in hell i can see a b16 on 16 psi only making 193whp...that makes NO sense at all

ho / I have a 1990 handa crx hf I also was going to put a b16 in to the car but at the last secound i changed my mind and i am happy to say that it was the best thing i have done I put the dohc zc in to the car along with the jdm zc tranny i have put only $3900 in the motor and the tranny i have ported and polished and shaved the head 30 thousends stock springs and retainers i also have adjustable cam gears but stock cams and in the bottom end all i have is 10'5'1 compression 40 over pistons every thing else in the bottom end is stock with the head the compression is 12'1 i also have a aem cold air intake and dc header and alum flywheel with a six puck clutch and a apexi safc i just put on the dyno 173 hp 166 tr my friend has a 93 civic hatchback with a b16 turbo 16psi apexi vafc he dynoed at 193hp 169tr and spent with the motor over $8000 and no when we race at the track either in 8th mile or 1/4 mile i always spank him also on the highway i win amazingly my cars top speed is 163mph i can beat the new c6 corvettes all day long so i think the best way to go for the money is the zc thanks for reading any ? let me know. :

where do you come up with this stuff?

also, did you ever pass freshman english comp in high school?

It was 6 psi not 16 psi just a typo.

so you must have mistyped your hp numbers...so you only made 73hp and 66ft lbs tq?

No my zc makes those numbers at 177 hp 166 tq and the b16 makes what it makes I dont know what all he has in besides the turbohe might have some stuff done tothe head or the bottom end i just dont know.

still want to see dyno's and time slips....

so you must have mistyped your hp numbers...so you only made 73hp and 66ft lbs tq?
...lol nice
yeah b16 on 16 psi makes alot more than that...lol
193 on 6 is still a little off, my friend was doing that on 4 psi, now 11 psi and over 300, i will have to get his dyno sheet fron when he got it tuned. the car is sick...and i love how old this is....2002 it was old when i was a newbie

Yea really...zc's are junk sohc vtec or b/h/k series is the way to go plain and simple.

somebody better start posting up some dyno sheets to salvage this thread or it's going on lock down.



....this thread is useless without dynos!!!!!

who cares. just lock it. its freakin old.

who cares. just lock it. its freakin old.
:1:

do it go with the zc it will produce more torque i paid 700 shipped it had 30,000 miles and i was happy. with a few bolt ons i,h,e,msd,clutch, i smoked another crx which had a sohc supercharged.