Two questions.

One. Would it be cheaper or easier to buy an LS6 engine or just upgrade an LS1 to an LS6?

Two. What is so wrong with Fram oil filters?

an ls6 has a different block, heads, and intake manifold so u can't totaly upgrade an ls1 to an ls6. so im gonna say cheaper to buy the ls6. although some 01-02 fbodies slipped out of the factory with ls6 blocks.
with fram oil filters, i think they break apart over time and don't filter as well as other similarly priced filters. i use wix personaly

when did this news come out about the fram filters?!?
I thought fram was suposed to be a good filter! What about proline, are they ok?

Nope, fram sucks.

What is so wrong with Fram oil filters?

Okay, here's the run down on Fram's oil filters guys and gals.

Oil Filters come basically in three qualities. Very good, with excellent filtration; normal; and really incredibly bad. This last category, really incredibly bad, should obviously be avoided. Accordingly, never use a Fram, Pennzoil, Penske, Castrol, or Quaker State oil filter in any motor you like. All of these filters are made by Fram. The filter element itself is a normal paper element, and probably no better or worse than anyone else's paper element. However, the end caps on the filter element are made of cardboard in these filters. There are numerous stories of these cardboard end caps getting saturated with oil and coming apart, putting little cardboard fragments directly into the oil flow into your engine bearings. As they say in Ghost Busters, this "would be bad." Personally, I don't consider cardboard a suitable material for my engine internals.

This is one reason why i always recommend Purolator oil filters, which you can find at any Advance Discount auto parts store. Purolator makes filters in three qualities, standard, premium, and Pure One. Purolator states that their premium filters capture 97.8% @ 30 microns and 85.2% @ 20 microns. These numbers are typical of a normal paper element oil filter. The Purolator Pure One filters capture 99.8% @ 30 microns and 99.2% @ 20 microns. This means the Premium filter is letting through eleven times as many 30 micron particles as the Pure One, and eighteen times as many 20 micron particles. Clearly, the Pure One filter is doing a considerably better job of cleaning the oil than the premium filter.

The way the Pure One achieves this filtering efficiency is by combining three different types of materials in their filter: paper like everyone else to catch the big stuff, and cellulose and fiberglass fibers to fill in the "large" holes in the paper with their much finer fibers. Filters like this are now made by Purolator, Hastings (marketed as AMS), and Champion (marketed as Mobil 1 and Bosch). Accordingly, the best oil filters are the Purolator Pure One, Mobil-1, AMSOil, and Bosch. If you use one of these filters with one of the commercial synthetic oils listed above, you have the best protection money can buy.

Champion says the Bosch is a 15 micron filter, and the Mobil-1 is a 10 micron filter but gives no efficiency numbers. Fram makes a new filter, the X2, which they claim is in this category, but I'm skeptical of all things Fram. In particular, Fram officials seem to claim that all Fram filters have a rating of 10 microns, which calls into serious question how they measure their paper filters, and also why one would pay three times as much for their advanced filters given that they have the same rating as their basic filters. SAE tests would tend to indicate that the Purolator has a slight advantage in filtering over the other filters named here. The important thing is, all of these filters have performance at 30 microns which is far superior to a paper only filter, and all of these filters have performance at 20 microns which is also far superior to a paper filter. So, bottom line, the filters stated in the last paragraph will clean your oil far better than Frams paper-only filter.

That's a damn good explaination. Thanks.

I agree, thank you.

Since when has blind eyed been a moderator?

Since when has blind eyed been a moderator?

:evillol:

Remember the mod apps?. He made a damn good one but TS asked me what I thought and said he was mod material. So there he is. Firebird mod for now but soon to be global I am sure. BTW, I agree thats a damn good post and as a matter of fact, I never really payed close attention to oil filters. I usually just grab one off the shelf and hope it works good enough but now I am going to be sticking with purolator after reading that.


Speaking of good posts, the Firebird and Camaro forums are soon going to have merged sub forums and I had mentioned a few weeks back to a few different members that I would love to make some fact sticky's and common techinical issue's for each gen F-body but unfortunetly I am no specialist in each gen. Most of my knowledge is in 4th gens and I know a fair share about third gens cause they share alot of common parts with 4th gens and I have worked on a few but I think it would be great if everyone could get involved and throw some idea's up or like a group effort of sharing facts . Such as maybe a few of you guys with Third gens could write something up and I know we don't have many first and second gen owners but I am sure Korn or Earlsfat could share some light as well as Kasey with some V6 stuff and Mr.Luos with LS1 facts. Anyway, let me know what you guys think.

John

PS- I am sorry to hijack the thread but Blind pretty much had it covered.

i used fram for 1 day cause i was in a bind. changed the next day with a wix.

This is one reason why i always recommend Purolator oil filters, which you can find at any Advance Discount auto parts store. Purolator makes filters in three qualities, standard, premium, and Pure One.
One question, do you get on hell of a sales commission?
J/k
Good read

Alright. I'd like to know more about the LS6. What is the displacment? What kind of power did it have in the F-bodies it came in? Anywhere near the power of the Vette one of was it drasticly detuned?

That's a good question. I've never heard of LS6 Camaros or Firebirds before this thread. The LS6 was 346ci like the LS1 but the early Z06s came with 385hp and then later on was rated at 405hp. The torque's very similar to the hp numbers

I think GMHTP magazine dynoed the LS6 at 415hp while it was in a Camaro. If it came like that factory I can't remember...but I remember they were testing different mods on it and started out stock.

Are you looking to buy a new LS6???
What exactly are you planning here?
What exact info are you looking for??
Sorry, I could write a post about 3 pages long if not given specifics. And I really don't want to do that.

The blocks are slightly different. But will NOT affect power output.

Well, I am going to get a specific thread to the subject put up soon but for right now I am not sure if we should do a year to year guide on like options, Horsepower, colors available and performance stats or a technical guide to most commen fixes to issue's or both. Thats why I am looking for feedback on what most members would want to see. I Know I love tech sites but I also find specifications for year to year model a good read as well but thats why we need a couple volunteers and a thread specific to doing this up. I am going to get around to doing it but it will probably be a few weeks before the subs are merging the two forums together anyway.

Are you looking to buy a new LS6???
What exactly are you planning here?
What exact info are you looking for??
Sorry, I could write a post about 3 pages long if not given specifics. And I really don't want to do that.

The blocks are slightly different. But will NOT affect power output.Not really. I've seen kits and such that allow you to take an LS1 and make it into an LS6. But if the blocks are different, wouldn't it not be an LS6 but just a modded LS1? So looking at that, I was thinking of just putting an LS6 in there and not go with the LS1. That was why I was asking about. The displacement, what kind of power did or would make in a F-Body. Then I would take the engine and bore and strock it to either a 383, 396, 400, or 408. Most likly being a 408 after it is all said and done.
I'd love to make 475-550 hp at the wheels when I am done with the car. Just working on the engine now since that will be the most expensive, besides the car, in the project.
The car I'll be looking for when I do this is either going to be an 98-00 Trans Am or SS. Because well they both look bad ass and would be awesome to have one with that much power.
This is also going to be N/A. No SC or TC allowed in it.

Does this help much?

Can't make an LS6 block a 402/408 without getting VERY expensive. Better to start with the LS2 block.

LS6 and LS1 are the same displacement. Head and cams are the big differences.
The LS6 from 2002 tends to make about 355 at the wheels with an M6 Corvette. It would make the same power in a F-Body.

i know someone who has an 01 firehawk. he dynoed it when he first got it and couldn't find out why it was making around 330hp at the wheels. i told him some cars got the ls6 from the factory. i gave him and article to compair the block numbers too and sure enough, it was an ls6 block.
i know the cylinder heads, intake manifold, and oil pump are different but what is different about the block? wasn't the compression in the ls6 rasied or was it the same as the ls1's 10-10.5:1?

The LS6 heads made the compression different.
The block doesn't make any power difference. It does make a difference in power handling.

The Firehawk had a better lid and less restrictive exhaust from SLP. I have seen them lay down 325-330 RWHP completely stock myself.
As I understand it, only the 2002 F-Body stood a chance at having the LS6 block. 25% of the 2002's is what I have read.

So.. 6201 Camaros have the Ls6 in their engine bay..

Wouldn't using an LS2 block be more expensive since it is bigger?

The LS6 heads made the compression different.
The block doesn't make any power difference. It does make a difference in power handling.

The Firehawk had a better lid and less restrictive exhaust from SLP. I have seen them lay down 325-330 RWHP completely stock myself.
As I understand it, only the 2002 F-Body stood a chance at having the LS6 block. 25% of the 2002's is what I have read.
and about 10-15% in 01

So.. 6201 Camaros have the Ls6 in their engine bay..
No.
LS6 block with LS1 heads and cam.


I never even heard that any 2001 cars got the LS6 block. Not that it really matters. Even if they got it, it didn't increase the power output. Just meant they had a slightly more durable block if they wanted to build it.

The LS2 block isn't much more than the LS6 block. You can have a 402 LS2 built now for $3900 or so. My LQ9 402 was $3825 ($225 rod upgrade).
The LS2 block and the LQ4/LQ9 blocks are quite similiar...other than the material they are made out of. The LS2 block has a couple different sensor locations, but otherwise they would look identical other than the color difference between aluminum and iron.
All of the GM LSx small blocks are the same size block on the outside. That is how I was able to take a truck block (2004) with LS1 internals and drop it in my T/A (1999).

So where did you order yours from? Are there different options with proformance packages and all?

Tons of options.
Mine was from Texas Speed.
Futral, SDPC, TSP, Thunder, etc. all have great shortblocks.

Avoid the SLP pile though.

That's what I hear. Alright, thanks man.

Okay with John's idea here, I'm not sure if I like the idea of "segregating" for lack of better a better word, all the different generation f-bodies. Obviously the bulk of my experiience is with the 3rd gen, carbed and tpi, but I can hold my own through the others aswell. But I enjoy the boards the way they are, especially in the fact of picking up on generation specific little things like badging options on the 1st, the crossover in the 2nd, and the newer options for the 4ths, while engines like the LT1 start to make there may into the bays of 3rd gens.

Dunno, I just like the way the older crowd can help the younger crowd out with "old school" carbed mototrs, and the younger guys can help the older out understainding EFI and motsly the computersand electronics required to run em. Cuz man, I tell you I learned the hard way. Almost every car I owned and wroked was carbed until my wife fell in love with our 87 Park Ave. we bought off a friend. Since she wouldn't be denied it, and the price was right I said what the hell and bought it no question asked. Well long story short, you can "good enough" all you want in carb land, but with EFI "good enough" has to be just right for what the ECM wants to see. Took me 3 weekends tearing the motor down each weekend to get that concept.

the forums would not be segregated. I am just talking about having a tech/specification thread/sticky/faqs list. For each gen. The main forums will remain the same but the subs are going to change to classified, off -topic, performance and diagnostic but the subs will now be linked in the firebird forum as well as the Camaro forum.

oh, okay. But tech and specs on 35 years worth of cars? Well, maybe a thread that would have a post for each year, that would be pretty neat. So #1 would be '67, 2 = '68........

oh, okay. But tech and specs on 35 years worth of cars? Well, maybe a thread that would have a post for each year, that would be pretty neat. So #1 would be '67, 2 = '68........
Yeah, like production numbers and specs that year, different models available. Color and interiors available. I think that would be a interesting read. Ofcourse it would have to be for Camaro & Firebird but thats why I wanted it up for discussion. To see what you guys would want to read.

i think it sounds like a good idea but maybe a better idea would be to make a sticky thread with links to f-body specific resources like camarosource.ca, (which already has the set up we would be creating). just a thought but a tech/spec thread on each year would be kool and im sure others, including myself, would be happy to contribute to it.

It is really not AF's policy to mooch off of other forums/sites info and we should have some our own tech/spec's thread. Faqs page that other sites and forums link to. Not the other way around.

sry, im thinking you want just general specs/tech for each year

No need to apologise. I understand the suggestion and hell I use links to other sites all the time to share info but I think we have enough knowledge members around here that we should create our own page or whatever you guys think would work best for the newcomers to read. As in what would you guys like to see.

dude, sounds totally awesome. it would be sweet to not have to always serach for specs when im thinking of buying another f-body..

I think it would be a GREAT/PERFECT idea to include common problems and detailed descriptions of the fixes for those problem with f-bodys.

we have people who have the same problems and they could just go there and read the details on what caused that problem and how to fix it. and we would have subtopics like electrical, suspension, drivetrain... etc.

we all become experts on idividual problems after we have had them ourselves and this would allow us to help other people with the common stuff without having to be online right then and there.

the posts would be structured like:
symptons:
cause:
resolution:

great idea, I am going to make a thread today or tommorow. I will let you guys decided the questions in the commen problems thread and then we can also discuss the structure of the specification/production thread.

is this closer to what ur looking for;
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=461174
we made this in the blazer forum

Not exactly what I have in mind but its all up to you guys. I wanted two seperate threads. One to be a each post specific to a year with production numbers,engine options, specifications, colors, models and changes for that year. Then a second thread with common problems and fixes to these issue's.

sounds like a plan