Turbo B16a VS Stroked B16a

Turbo B16a VS Stroked B16a

wich would be faster you think

i think it could get close but end up on tranny gearing and tuning of the motor and of corse driver skill

I would go Na
just alot easyer to me to keep up espicaly if your driveing it every day

When I think of NA I think of a B16a1, and when I think of FI I think of a B18b1. But that's just me.

Turbo would always be faster vs stroked motor, (same type motor). Turbo can be a daily driven car too, if built well and maintained properly. But I agree with you that NA motor would be easier to maintain.

Turbo, hands down. I dunno the best anyone has got out of an all motor B16A - I'd imagine that 220bhp might be cutting it close with a stroker kit, cams etc, but a turbo and intercooler and decompression means that a lot of boost can be dialled in.

i heard that stroked motors arent that reliable. if you go NA the only thing you can do is up your comp ratio which means you gotta run higher octane gas, but with a turbo at 7psi you wont need to run as high of a octane gas

Originally posted by civickiller
i heard that stroked motors arent that reliable. if you go NA the only thing you can do is up your comp ratio which means you gotta run higher octane gas, but with a turbo at 7psi you wont need to run as high of a octane gas

Ok about high octane gas. The highest compression that u can run 93-94 gas is 11:5 anything about 12 u'll need to run racing fuel. Oh setanta 220 is all u seen on an all motor? Well i've seen some that go 300 plus on fully built b16. Some guy around chicago is running 12's. He raced 4 turbocharged cars 3 which was civics and one dsm and he never lost a race. I'd say ppl that goes N/A gets more respect and in my opinion turbo is an easy way of goin fast and too many ppl have or getting turbo.




GOT BOOST?



HELL NO!!!:D ;)

The whole turbo NA is always laughable to me, properly tuned a turbo or supercharged car is just as reliable as any NA, the problem is people dont want to spend the time and the money to get their engine tuned correctly so they choose to go NA, but then the myth started that NA was somehow cooler. I dont get it, Ill take a turbo and more HP over respect from the rice kids in town anyday.

Originally posted by Bleebdat
the problem is people dont want to spend the time and the money to get their engine tuned correctly so they choose to go NA,

What??? Thats not true. What makes u say that? I'm goin N/A and i ALREADY PLANNED to get my car tuned. Any car thats not TUNED is gonna run like shit. I don't want my car running like shit. Oh theres a place that tunes cars for 200 bucks and it only takes him an hour to do it. Not to disrespect man but please don't go around and say "ppl wants to go N/A cause they don't want to spend time and money to get it tuned" cause that is not true. NOT all ppl with Forced Induction gets there car tuned or ppl with N/A. Even though i would recommend that they should.

Thats why I'm going NA all motor LSVTec! 300hp on an all motor and just doing 12's?...stock LS-turbo with upgraded injectors and clutch can do mid 11's and thats not even fully built. What Setana was probably saying is 220hp to the wheels add up to about 275-300hp...The motor I'm building has all type R internals (LS block, GSR head) 11.1 comp, I could go higher but want a daily driven, smog passing, pump gas running sleeper...Would probably beat some of the weak turbo and supercharged cars around...:flash:

Originally posted by EF_LSVtec
Thats why I'm going NA all motor LSVTec! 300hp on an all motor and just doing 12's?...stock LS-turbo with upgraded injectors and clutch can do mid 11's and thats not even fully built. What Setana was probably saying is 220hp to the wheels add up to about 275-300hp...The motor I'm building has all type R internals (LS block, GSR head) 11.1 comp, I could go higher but want a daily driven, smog passing, pump gas running sleeper...Would probably beat some of the weak turbo and supercharged cars around...:flash:

And i do bow down to you!! :D Well i was told u can go 11:5:1 on pump gas? Thats what i'm gonna do. I was really thinkin of doin that b20 v-tec but i'm not sure though. Rite now i'm lookin for b20 bare block :)

I was going to get a B20 too, but didnt want to gamble on aftermarket pistons and risk not passing emissions. I figure since Type R parts are all stock, then it should do ok on smog control...I didnt even go jdm pistons and went for us type R. Only worry is my cylinder head's ported and 70mm throttlebody...I dont remember my total comp., maybe just below 12 like you said, 11.5...I went to my speedshop last week and he's just waiting for the rod and main bearings. 3 more weeks he said and it'll be "judgement day"...not to count breaking it in for 1000 miles.:flash:

Actually, I read the question as a modified B16A, not as LS-VTEC etc as they are no-longer a B16A, simply a head.

Reliably, all the B16A's with no stroker, original block etc seem to produce 220bhp tops in NA format (one of them ran a stroker crank). NA B18s seem to be the engine of choice for racing though.

The reason for that is that we seem to have a lot more turbocharging of NA cars to produce our power - it's cheap and efficient and everyone has the cars fully tuned and setup on dynos (which are plentiful and reasonably inexpensive). Aftermarket programmable ECUs are relatively inexpensive - some are even designed and built here.

Aussie philosophy of car tuning seems to be that NA is for track cars and in the majority, turbo 4s, 6s and 8s are the way to go for 1/4 mile racing to be competetive - probably asisted by the fact that imports from Japan are on the rise and a complete front cut from the seats forward makes for easy transplants/hybrids.

Other reason? Honda's are in a minority in Australia. We get a reasonable amount, but there are better cars to buy for the money Honda wants (ouch - that hurt to say ;) ).

Can I ask one question(for you it would look like stupid one) what does NA mean-stands for...I know what means supercaharged or turbocharged but I don't have a clue what does NA mean...

Is that when you replace all things in your engine(pistons,polish head and lowering it, itc) or is that something else :confused: :confused:

Thnx for all your answers :silly2:

Naturally Aspirated. means the car does not have any type of forced induction.

hey ef_lsvtec, correct me if am wrong but a lsvtec with type r rods and pistons with a gsr head will yield a higher comp ratio than 11:1. more like 12:1 or higher, probably higher.

Mellowboy: I wasnt trying to offend anyone, but rather making a generalization of the two main groups of people NA and turbo. And not to disrespect you, but almost any NA honda engine even frankenstein ones do not require any tuning. So they wouldnt run like sh*t. The reason tuning is so much more important for a FI car is that you are drastically changing Air/Fuel ratios to the point that stock setups will not compensate enough.

EF: do you plan to still have a streetable car with that planned setup? I think 275-300 is pretty far out of reach. Also to reach those #'s you are going to be taking bigger gambles than going b20, afterall with lsvtec you are going to have mostly aftermarket to begin with.

And finally as for comp #'s it really depends on what engine you have the new celica/matrix engine is 11.5/1 and will not detonate on even 87 gas, and was turbo'd to 7 psi by SportCompactCar running 91 octane, but older engines might have problems reaching goals like this, its all about that tuning.

Bleebdat: Where did you get the idea that N/A does not require tuning? In order for your car to run better it needs to be tuned. When goin N/A you messing up the air fuel ration also. In order for it to run rite you need it tuned. IF you mess with ANY stock engine to put in aftermarket products such engine internals its always best to get it tuned. The guy who is runnin 12's had his car tuned? Also when i went to Garage Kwai theres a guy that was upset about is type r. He was disappointed that he only has 190 at the wheels when he took it to a different shop. So when he went to Garage Kwai they tuned it for him and it came out to be 212 at the wheels. He's all motor. Oh another one is my friend with the 2000 Si with a b18c1 ( blew up the b16) he's running 167 at the wheels and 113 lbs of torque and i don't know why but thats not the issue rite now. He's all motor. Before he got it tuned he was doin 146 (its a 94 gsr motor ...old). DO you see what i'm sayin though? NO matter whats ur plans for your car u always need it tuned.

I'm putting in US Type R pistons and shotpeened LS rods. Anyway, it's slightly lower compression than JDM and Civic Type R. Comp should be just on the limit...I hope..:(

Mellow you are missing my point, an untuned type r makes 190, an untuned turbo engine more than likely blows up. That is why most people would rather not go turbo. The problem is people have started to think turbo almost equals cheating.

bleebdat, one of the reasons why i picked type r parts is because I plan to use my car as a daily driver commuter sleeper, hehehe...and maybe occasional autocrossing. realistic hp that I expect with this set up is between 200-250hp...:D

i read somewhere that if you build a ls vtec with a b16a head and use b16a pistons then you get a comp ratio of like 11:1. then the article said that if you use a gsr head then its more cause of the cc's the head flows. so you comp ratio with the gsr head with b16 pistons is already higher than 11:1. but if you then decide to throw in type r pistons which will only up the compression which would leave it close or higher than 12:1. which i think kind makes its not as streetable

check out this site http://www.hondaswap.com/articles/index.php?id=6

see it says that with b16 head with type r pistons your yielding a 12.2:1 then add .2 for the gsr head so your looking at 12.4:1, that pretty high for a street car. probably not streetable unless you run high octane gas

Originally posted by Bleebdat
Mellow you are missing my point, an untuned type r makes 190, an untuned turbo engine more than likely blows up. That is why most people would rather not go turbo. The problem is people have started to think turbo almost equals cheating.

No the type r wrongfully tuned made 190 atw. With the correct tuning on whatever set up he has done to it got 212 atw. My friend has a turbo gsr and he didn't get it tuned and its running ok now. If he wants to run better then he should get it tuned. Even if its fully built and its untuned u can still drive it but its not gonna run as good as tuned. I understood what u said thats why i'm sayin this to you....chump.:D ;)

thanks for the info civickiller...if you look at no 10. it says with a GSR head you up your comp by .2 compared to a B16...I have a P73 pistons (00) 11.4 total comp with B16 + .2 = 11.6 with a GSR, still under 12 and barely streetable. I have a very skilled mechanic and hopefully he did his numbers correctly for what my ultimate goal is.:flash:

i think the turbo b16 a would win but i like turbo qqqsssshhhh

I like turbo too...but wouldnt pass smog. And if you get one that would pass (Greddy), its slow as a slug...well, maybe not that slow...but slower than a Drag 3. A friend of mine had an old GTI with oettinger twin cam engine, turbo-intercooled, pumping 290hp..the G-force was unbelievable. But there are a lot of pros and cons...He said that if you've been running your turbo for a while, you cant just shut it off and would need a turbo timer...lets say your in an intersection and accidentally killed the motor on first gear, then you risk breaking the turbo.

oh my bad ef_lsvtec i thought you said you were gonna run civic type r pistons with your ls vtec

i used to be an all motor guy. yeah all motor rules kind stuff but now i turbo guy. i get off on the sound of a blow of valve

NO DISRESPECT INTENDED BUT , THE B16 IS POSSIBLY ONE OF THE BEST MOTORS EVER MADE.(1)INEXPENSIVE, ALOWS EVERY ONE THE CHANCE TO SWAP .(2)WITH IT SO CHEAP YOU CAN BUY A B16 SWAP AND AN LS SHORT BLOCK IN ORDER TO BUILD A NICE STOUT LS/VTEC GOD WILLING ONE OF THE BEST COMBO"S EVER (LOTS OF 11.00 AND UNDER 1/4 MILE CRX ALL MOTOR)(3) IN TURBO FORM IT IS CAPABLE OF NEAR 300HP 1BAR OF BOOST . I'VE SEEN IT WITH MY OWN EYES. ASFOR S/C TRIM. HEREIS WHERE IT ALL GOES WRONG ! I PERSONALY WITNESSED AN ALL MOTOR B16 NOTHING BUT BOLT ONS IN AN EG HATCH SMACK THE S$%# OUT OF A CRX B16 JACKSON RACING SUPPER CHARGER AT 11LBS OF BOOST PROBLEME IS S/C CREATE TO MUCH HEAT IN THE COMP PROCESS AND IT CAN NOT BE COOLED EFFECTIVLY SO YOU END UP GIVEING UP PERFORMANCE . IN THE END YOU COULD BUY ALOT OF NICE PARTS FOR YOUR 1/4 MILER FOR THE $2700.00 THAT WAS SPENT ON S/C PLUS INSTALL IS A PAIN IN THE A$$ THANKS FOR YOUR TIME ,AND THATS MY 2 CENTS

is turbo now cheating b/c last i heard nitrous oxide was cheating watch now na will be cheating wtf do what you gotta to win

Originally posted by spy54
is turbo now cheating b/c last i heard nitrous oxide was cheating watch now na will be cheating wtf do what you gotta to win

No its not cheating. Not original but its also not cheating!