Silent/Balance Shaft

Ok. Originally I was told when I bought this 92 eclipse gsx turbo, it possibly had a broken balance shaft but the person wasnt sure. It was not running when I bought it. After examining it I found that the timing belt had slipped causing, one of the valve heads to break when it hit one of the pistons coming up, and it jammed in between the piston and the cylinder head causing the car to not turn over. This also obliterated the spark plug, and ruined that piston. Now that I got the jammed valved out, the engine turns over by hand, there is no longer a lock. The only thing is now I question the balance shaft or silent shaft. To take it out would be expensive because the specialty tools to do that are expensive. Is there a way to tell from the outside if the balance shaft/silent shaft might be broken? If so I would greatly appreciate a response. Thanks guys.

Just get a bs removal kit. They are like $40 from sbr or you could get the front cover from a 4g61 and use that

Are you going to replace anything else besides the valve that busted? The guides on the bent ones are probably fucked and if the piston is dented you'll have to replace that too. And then you'll have to re-ring the block and all the good stuff. Might as well just do a full re-build.

I was gonna buy a new cylinder head instead of dealing with each individual valve, and just the one piston was dented so I'll buy a new one, but other than that I was gonna leave it be besides the whole balance shaft thing. What pr ricer said sounds good though. I'll just buy an eliminator kit and eliminate a present or future problem.

Wait, so the valve head was wedged between the piston and cylinder wall? Sounds like the block is fucked to me. If it gouged into the cylinder deep enough to make it not turn over, I bet the gouge is too deep to be bored out. I hope you didnt pay much for the car.

thats what sleeves are for if the gouges are to deep, but he said it wa stuck between the piston and head

I've never replaced just ONE piston, I always do all 4 of them at once so you know everything is worn out the same amount.

I'm also still not sure exactly what happened, what is getting stuck and where? The valve would have to be bent as FUCK to be wedged between the cylinder and the piston. Or is it bent so that the valves won't close all the way, therefore the piston hits the vavles and can't do a complete stroke?

And it'll be alot cheaper to just replace the valves and guides rather than buying a whold damn new head.

he said that the valve head broke off and got lodged between the piston and the head which probably fucked the head in the process. I should know my buddy just did the exact same thing in his camaro(except a rocker arm broke)

Ahhh I get it now, I was reading it wrong before. In that case, I also agree that the head is probably fucked if it wedged the valve head between the piston and a chunk of aluminum

Sleeving would cost more than just a new block wouldnt it?

I would just rebuild the engine, rebuilding is the funnest thing to do i dont know why you would pass on the opportunity. :)

depends on what kind of deal you can get for a block. Not only that but if you sleeve it you get added strength as well

This is the same condition that my car was in when I bought mine. Timing belt slipped causing two valves to fall off into the cylinders and punched through the pistons.

You shouldn't have to replace the block.

You should replace all for because you are going to have to tear down the whole motor and get it re-bored and honed. Get a new head and the balance shaft removal kit.

Well see, the block is fine, the valce head which broke off was just rolling around on its side on top of the piston causing the engine to only turn about 40 degrees by hand. I really lucked out cause it seems that the block is in perfect condition, and even the cylinder wall for that piston is in perfect shape, not even a knick. The other three pistons are also in perfect shape. I will end up buying a whole new set though just so I know when they were put on, and leave the good three as backups. I have the option of getting the head redone by getting 4 new valves for that particular piston, although just the one seems to be in bad shape (the one which broke). Or I also jave the option of buying a new head and just use that. I'm having a hard time finding someone in the area which will rebuild it for me, so it looks like I might have to rent a C-clamp and take out the spring and valve myself. I will also have to re-bore the valve seat because it has been a little scratched. How does that sound? Thanks all of you for your help, I'll keep you updated.

I bought it for $400 by the way.

I bought a completely rebuilt head and a balance shaft kit. A new piston is in shipment to me. The kit I bought for the balance shafts, doesn't contain much information on what to do. I was curious if anyone had a before and after picture by any chance. I searched but couldn't find one. Also, what are the balance shafts there for if we end up remvoing them anyway for this kit? Whats the point of having them there in the first place? What do they do in the first place, and what is this kit going to do differently to work better? Thanks guys

balance shafts are there to balance your motor. How they work is the off set the vibrations made by the rotating assembly so removing them will cause more viberations but on the upside you dont have to worry about it breaking a belt and hurting your timing belt

To be technically correct, the balance shafts have nothing to do with the balance of the motor. They just counter the motors natural vibrations so all the pussies that though the 1g lagged too much won't cry about it :D No more vibration will be created, but more may be felt. IMO, with a 3" exhaust you can't tell the difference anyway. Just be sure the stubby oil shaft in the BS eliminator kit has a groove in it. If you are unable or uncomfortable removing the front shaft's bearings and turning them to block the oil holes, just leave the front shaft in place but don't put a belt to it. ;)

Alright well I just got my cylinder head in from shipment, but I wanted to make sure that it is in fact a turbo before I put it on, I mean thats what I ordered but I want to know for sure. Is there a way of determining this?

Well I installed the balance shaft elimination kit, it wasn't too bad at all. Just use an extension bar and a big socket to both knock out the old bearings and put in the new ones. I also replaced the piston and dropped the engine back into the car. I'm about to put the new head on, but I had a question regarding the valves. Since it's new, all the valves are down, and this of course wouldn't normally happen. Do I need to rotate the cams to a certain point for each valve, or will it work as is, being that they are all down. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. You guys have been a huge help.

What do you mean by "the valves are all down?" With the cam dowel pins at 12 oclock, the valves should mostly be closed, with a couple just a mm or two open. If the cams are not at 12 oclock, I guess that is what you are talking about then. The head should be installed with the pins at 12 to be safe, plus thats where they need to be to do th tbelt anyway.

I also like to put the block at #1 TDC, then rotate counter clockwise a quarter turn, so all pistons are at the midpoint of the stroke, jst to be safe. Then when its time to put the belt on, rotate it clockwise to the mark.

Yup, thats what I meant, thanks man! I'll do that today and post how it goes.

Well I put the timing belt on today with the cylinder head. It was weird though. One cam was at 12 o clock and the other was at 6, in order to have the timing marks matched up. Will this cause a problem even though the timing marks are next to each other? :screwy: How would that occur? I also had a question about the 2 drive belts (power steering, air conditioning). How do I tell them apart? I mean I know the route each one goes, I just can't tell the difference between them. Both have grooves, but one also has cross-sectional grooves to make small teeth almost. Which is which I'm sure you all know, but I'm new to all this. Thanks again, I appreciate it.



Could it be that the person I bought it off of had either 2 intake cams or 2 exhaust cams on it? And if so, will it be able to run this way with the timing marks lined up still?

The dowel pins have to be at 12 oclock. There is no way around this. The cam gears should have timing marks at 9 and 3 oclock.

For the belts, put them on and see what fits :) The alternator one should be slightly longer though, IIRC. I could be wrong. I tossed the AC back in 02.

If you are unable or uncomfortable removing the front shaft's bearings and turning them to block the oil holes, just leave the front shaft in place but don't put a belt to it. ;)

I just found my balance shaft broken and it slung up against the timing belt. The timing belt is just fine and never skipped teeth...I decided I wanted to do the b-shaft elimination but in the meantime, accoring to Kevin's quote, I can just drive it without the belt? I thought this was a serious no-no?

Yes and no :)

Don't: Drive it with "no belt," if no belt means it's not connected but still sitting up in there behind the tbelt. We all know that's bad.

Don't: Run no front bshaft with the rear shaft still in. Without the front shaft to counter balance the rear shaft, you'll get a bunch of vibration, usually above 3500 rpm or so.

Do: Leave the front shaft in with no belt, AND remove the rear shaft and replace with the grooved stubby shaft. This way you effectively have no bshafts.

I posted more about this in your other thread before I saw this one...