motor out, pics

ok well my motor is out, cylinder 7 had problems, the piston was as black as can be and all the others were decently clean, also one valve had like a chunk of something on it, still there, wont pull off, it looks like jb weld smashed all on it. other then that its looking good. i found i have studs for my heads, plus, and i have 4 bolt mains, and flat top pistons. some nice crane valve springs and rods. snd what im planning on is cleaning the engine bay and painting it black, getting rid of my tpi and wiring and going carbed. new oil pump, roller rockers, piston rings, all new gaskets, double roller timing set, and a stall converter. also gona get some head work done and get my block hot tanked. ill post pix as progress is made. in the meantime heres a few pix as of last thursday.... http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c397/400CI87firebird/pulling%20and%20rebuilding%20the%20400/100_1014.jpg
thats me unbolting something on the left, and a few friends
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c397/400CI87firebird/pulling%20and%20rebuilding%20the%20400/100_1019.jpg
its out, put it in that crate till we got the engine stand ready
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c397/400CI87firebird/pulling%20and%20rebuilding%20the%20400/100_1021.jpg
theres that nasty cylinder 7 on the right, well compared to the others
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c397/400CI87firebird/pulling%20and%20rebuilding%20the%20400/100_1022.jpg
the other side
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c397/400CI87firebird/pulling%20and%20rebuilding%20the%20400/100_1023.jpg
the motor, the lifter valley is grinded down smooth for the oild to flow better
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c397/400CI87firebird/pulling%20and%20rebuilding%20the%20400/100_1024.jpg
that parts that came off pre pull
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c397/400CI87firebird/pulling%20and%20rebuilding%20the%20400/100_1025.jpg
the rockers lifters rods and bolts for the rockers and heads
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c397/400CI87firebird/pulling%20and%20rebuilding%20the%20400/100_1026.jpg
heads... they are stock 350 heads from the original 350 that was in the car
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c397/400CI87firebird/pulling%20and%20rebuilding%20the%20400/100_1029.jpg
gotta get rid of all that speghetti and paint it all black

Man, why are you going carbed? TPI system is superior in gas mileage and power.. only thing is that it doesnt have the spaghetti, but i'd trade that for going quicker and saving a couple of bucks especially when gas prices are this high..

it's just money, you'll get more every day....gas prices aren't an issue with me

umm well my injectors are shit and i dont have a extra 200 to spend on them, i could sell this all for 200 maybe and buy a manifold and i have a holly 650 already. plus theres no one around here to tune my ecu that desperatly needs a tune for my motor and that cost too much anyways, (i would tune myself but cant afford that either and i dont want a 2 week headache). and i think i will get more power out of a carb anyways. and yeah, its woth the gas money

cool

Nice work, although I have to agree that TPI owns carb hard... no lube... etc

you can get injectors out of a lt1 or ls1 for cheap...50 bucks or so....usually with low miles....but do what you will. :)

you could go stealth ram. kinda like tpi but better

if your changing over to a carbed setup your may want to replace your cam, fuel injected cams are ground diferantly compared to a standard cam yours will work but your not gonna get the power you would like from it, you also may want to replace your lifters if not check them for wear where the tappet meets with the camshaft the tappet side of your lifter should be flat,

Cylinder 7 looks like it was a leaky injector or bad o-ring(s), could be weak spark too, but I'd go with the first. The "jb weld" looking stuff on the valve probably was a goof from whoever built the engine last and left the clay on the valve when checking for interference. As for not having $200 for injectors, 2 answers, both 2 words

swap meet
junk yard

:thumbsup:

wish I could get my car into the garage....got so much crap everywhere....

go carb, carb is just so much cooler than FI

go carb, carb is just so much cooler than FI

:grinyes:

TPI is sooooo much better than carb. I know alot of guys that wish their car had TPI on it and not a carb. Power is much better and overall driveability is also much better. I won't even factor in gas mileage and it still wins hands down. It's like points vs. electronic ignition, it just doesn't make sense why you would take the better of the 2 out and replace it with old technology. I don't want to tell you what to do but I also don't want you to regret it either.(which you will)

go carb, carb is just so much cooler than FI

Until you close the hood and actually start the car..

And it gets worse when its cold and you have to sit there.. which is recommended but if you're in a hurry.. thats another story.

I dont know, but to me going carb isnt the best.. especially since TPI is what alot of people try to go for.. you're like going backwards instead of forward..

wish I could get my car into the garage....got so much crap everywhere....

I know what thats like, after my '87 got wrecked my garage got all cluttered up again but now I have my '95 and no where to put it.. :shakehead

well ill let yall know how sweet it is when i have my carb all hooked up :grinyes: :lol: also got some news, my neighbor has a brand new 350 that hes letting me have so i can put it in my car while i rebuild my 400. so thats sweet. its the same guy thats giveing me a holley 650 carb. so yeah, big pimpin over here. now i just gotta go buy a sweet 5 inch k&n open element, 1 inch carb spacer, and a 4 inch cowl hood baby! lol ill keep yall updated. oh and rally, it dosnt get to cold in florida, cocoa beach to be exact.

Doesnt matter.. TPI>Carb.. mainly why they dont use em anymore.. :lol2:

you have a point, but when you cant tune your ecu its useless. plus my ecu is for mass air flow and somehow they previous owner got it to work with speed density. dont feel like going there and even if i did figure it out, i dont have the materials or money to buy the materials to tune it. and theres no one around here to tune it. well like 45 mins away there is, but it costs too much. im going carbed because its the easiest and cheapest way for me to go, and either way ill be making more power then a motor with tpi running on 7 cylinders will. thanks for all the input though but im going carbed. but if anyone has any opinions keep em coming, i like getting others opinions on this stuff because usually its helpful in a way. even if you want to bash on carbs some more i dont care, it will keep me thinking through school. although dont most serious drag cars use carbs???? well anyways if i had the money i would totally have the Holley Commander 950 MPI System.

I'd think they use FI because of the ability to get higher power easier.. not saying carbs cant get high power, but somehow ive seen FI's make it easier..

I agree with Rod&Custom though, he makes very good points to not go carb.

More and more drag cars are going EFI be it multi port or throttle body injection. Truely, the only sanctioned racing group still 100% using carb only is Nascar, due to "keeping the palying field level". Why they won't come into the 90's, atleast, is beyond me, even the SCCA is alowing the option of using EFi now.

i'm not going tell you what to do or not do, it's your car. I'm jsut saying if you think going carb is the easy way out, you're mistakened. And dialing in a 650 cfm on a 350, that is probably near stock is not just a bolt on and go, especially when your talking about putting a 1" spacer on it already. When you do that, you've changed the entire venturi characteristics, thus you'll need a intake manifold that warrents the use of the spacer, re-jet it, adjust the floats for hours and pray that the ignition advance keeps up with it.

Oh, and dont' forget, now you have to drop the tank, pull the EFI pump, replace it with a carb sending unit and pick up, and then match a mechanical or in-line low volume electric pump to work with the carb set up.

and that's exactly why I didn't decide to go with a carb. to much extra work and more money than keeping the TBI.

if your carb if tuned right it will work great, the one in my nova starts easy in cold or hot weather, you just need to know what your doing, and carb it stills 10X easier than EFI

Hey man I can appreciate someone trying to save some money. I realize how expensive EFI can be. Carbs aren't terrible, I just like 'em best on stock restorations where they were originally, but you gotta' do what ya' gotta' do! I noticed that you said your FI was converted to speed density. Mass air is best on a stock car, but speed density is used on high performance applications. The mass air doesn't work because it gets a bad reading if your cam has too high of a lift, which yours might(I don't remember your specs). So actually the speed density would be great for your application but it is completely understandable that you would rather avoid the headache and pocketache(sorry, bad joke). The important thing here is that you don't lose sight of your goal and quit because that happens all too often. Glad to see someone who's genuinely excited about working on their car!

ok well to clear this up to those of you that are saying stuff about my motor being a stock 350. its not, its a 400 small block with a crane cam (.450 lift i think it is) flat top pistons, crane valve springs and rods. im not sure about the connecting rods and crank but they sure dont look like they are stock. soon to have 1.6 roller rockers. it has a double roller timing set. the only stock thing is the heads and valves. i think... not sure yet but once i get done rebuilding it it will be far far from stock. you have good points about fuel injection but i just cant do it. plus im likeing this no big wiring harness deal. but if anyone has any tips or preferred parts i should get. lemme know because im open to pretty much any suggestions.

just do whatever you like and prefer, we're still gonna be here to help you when you needed it whether we like the carb route or not.

Hey 88Camaroproject!!! you have an answer ive been looking for!!!
What is the product ID # to that K&N filter you had on the front of your TPI??

we're still gonna be here to help you when you needed it whether we like the carb route or not.

Awwwwwwwww.

Group hug :lol:

don't forget to put a reg on ur fuel lines to lower the shit out of the fuel pressure... if u don't u gonna have problems... good luck w/ the carb, and i can tell you where to go to get a new prom for the car for bout 100-125 bucks and have it running perfect... but ur choice man... w/ the tpi setup tuned, it'll make more power than you're gonna get out of a carb fyi ;)

I dont see what the real issue is with converting to carb if thats what you want.
The first car i bought had Tuned Port Injection with MAF and it stayed in the dealer shop more than it did in my drive way. I ended up going to battle with GM over it and won..... The had to buy the car back and i went out and bought a new 86 IROC that was carbed (from factory) with a quadrajet and i was as happy as heck with it just because of the headaches i was having with TPI
I bought the TPI car new (85 Z28) and had it for 8 months and it was in the shop over 75 times for the same issue everytime!
With that said,though, when the TPI was working correctly,(very seldom) it was awesom

After a Carb is set up and tuned properly you can get some really nice results and performance.
I think if it wasn't for emissions and fuel economy standards , Carbs would still be in production today. But with the new standards the ECM needs to have better or total control over how a car is running and it can make adjustments continuously to allow for varying fuel quality, altitude change ,temp,emissions, and so on. You cant get that type of control with a carb set up

Hey 88Camaroproject!!! you have an answer ive been looking for!!!
What is the product ID # to that K&N filter you had on the front of your TPI??
lol, i wish i could help but when i bought the car it was on there. but ill go see if theres a part number or something on it. ok its got a number, f048d6.

Do you know anyone who can tune a carb? Because like was said it wont be fun getting it dialed in. Especially with the 400. The carb should make more power that his current setup...once the carb gets tuned in. Anyone think the 650 carb is a little tight for the 400? I guess his heads wont breath enough to matter.

Good luck with her whatever you do.......
Oh and remember, that big thing in pic two goes back into the last pic:icon16:

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1580/1001019copy0ty.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Had to..

Thats frekin awesome......
Who votes we put it in the mustang forum........

Good luck with her whatever you do.......
Oh and remember, that big thing in pic two goes back into the last pic:icon16:

Ummm.. no. the big thing in pic two goes into my garage :icon16:

Nice..........

Thats frekin awesome......
Who votes we put it in the mustang forum........

You can.. if you want to end up like Ls1man who got banned for starting shit between these 2 forums.. not the smartest thing to do. :lol2:

Doesnt matter.. TPI>Carb.. mainly why they dont use em anymore.. :lol2:

except for nascar...

depending on what you are doing, carb can be better. If you are doing high speed oval racing where it is always the same, carb owns. If this is your daily driver or you are using it for street racing FI is probably better.

The only advantage FI has over carb is its more adaptable.

The only advantage FI has over carb is its more adaptable.

and more efficient, and better milage

and more efficient, and better milage

And less moving parts to break, keep clean and lubed.

This thing is an auto isn't it??

So is there gonna be a shift kit put in and a 3000rpm Stall Torque Converter?

it has a shift kit and yes i am gonna get a stall converter, like 2600 i think. its a 3 speed auto. th350

From the pics of your heads I don't believe they are stock.....GM didn't make a center valve cover bolt (tall rail) with the steam holes. Somebody drilled them or they are aftermarket.

If you are putting a carb intake your middle two mainfold bolt holes will not line up, so plan on a different set of heads also. FI heads the middle two intake bolt holes are verticle and carb are angled.

If you want to keep your valve covers you will need to find a set of 217 or 083 cast heads, the only tall rail heads that I know of that have the angled bolt holes.

i got the numbers from them. the heads are gm 14101083. they have 1.94 intakes valves and 1.5 exhaust valves. from a 1987 350. 64cc, 90 degree and 72 degree bolt angles. they dont make any manifolds with the same bolt pattern and stuff??? i think this manifold fits ---> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL%2D2104&N=115&autoview=sku

I wonder if I'm ever going to take apart an engine since I'm going away to college soon. If I ever do, it's gonna be some bitch of a job. All those lifters...gets dizzy.

it's not that bad, quick.


and yes, they make aftermarket carb manifolds for your style heads.

Hey 88Camaroproject!!! you have an answer ive been looking for!!!
What is the product ID # to that K&N filter you had on the front of your TPI??

i got the same one.. its K&N P/N RC5000...

DAMN THIS WORLD!!! k&n doesnt have anything for that number im better off making my own out of belly button lint!

NO wait scratch that AFI_05 you da man! rc-5000 thats it!! my quest is over! Now no time to waste, quickly boy wonder to advanced auto parts! up up an away!:screwy: