cams, Cams, CAms, CAMs, CAMS!!!!!!

I just ordered some cams. Can't freaking wait, they are DKS (not typo) 272's. They're 365 shipped for both. These have a lot of good feedback and cost like half of HKS cams. Here's a link if anyone's interested. Oh and they come with a 1 year warranty!! http://www.ffwdconnection.com/cams.shtml

nice, I thought you were going to wait to buy them, you know bush could fuck you over and charge 8 dollars a gallon soon. lol good find man.

I was looking at those to. Let me know how they work

nice, I thought you were going to wait to buy them, you know bush could fuck you over and charge 8 dollars a gallon soon. lol good find man.

Don't be ignorant Bush doesn't control fuel prices. :shakehead

Don't be ignorant Bush doesn't control fuel prices. :shakehead
:1:

Good! I was looking into them too! Let me know how they work out for you. Im sure your car will sound beastly. Are you getting valve springs too or just throwing them in with a stock head?

Good! I was looking into them too! Let me know how they work out for you. Im sure your car will sound beastly. Are you getting valve springs too or just throwing them in with a stock head?
Stocke head for now, they're fine to use in a stock head as long as you don 't rev really high like more than 8k.
Bush does control gas price, by deregulating the industry he has allowed companies to monopolize a good essential to the economy. It's like allowing electricity companies charge whatever they want.

Thats like saying that I can control how many times I take a dump by how much I eat but the bottom line is shit happens :lol:

"as you don 't rev really high like more than 8k"

Wow, I would only be taking it to 7,200 because thats where the rev limiter is lol.

LMAO at Bush controlling prices. LMAO at who said it.

Anyway, about the cams, it's a definite knock-off (DKS), so I wouldn't use them, not something I would trust, but hopefully they work fine. I wouldn't count on the warranty though, way too easy for them to get out of that (intallation error they say usually). Good luck with them though, I'm interested to see airflow differences. I hope you prove me wrong ;)

gas price is suck now, $3 for 87 oct :banghead: .

I still pay less than $2.90 for 93

I still pay less than $2.90 for 93


$2.78 for 91 (highest octane in the state at the normal pump)

Anyway, about the cams, it's a definite knock-off (DKS), so I wouldn't use them, not something I would trust, but hopefully they work fine. I wouldn't count on the warranty though, way too easy for them to get out of that (intallation error they say usually). Good luck with them though, I'm interested to see airflow differences. I hope you prove me wrong ;)
Well i'm not really worried about the warranty most companies that offer a warranty have the balls to back it up. That really had nothing to do with me buying these cams. I was searching on tuners and everyone who had the recomended them. I will definetly take sevral logs before and after. Oh they are eactly the same cut as the hks 272's.
EDIT: Did anyone notice the 1800hp head gasket they sell? It doesn't even need o-rings and it held 43psi!!!

87 is $2.76 here, 92 is like $2.96. I think I am going to convert my Talon to run on E85. We were talking about it some where else, all you need to do is replace anything the gas will come into contact with from aluminum to steel, make sure the rubber that the gas will touch gets replaced with teflon, and you have to have fuel management because you have to aim for like a 9:1 or 10:1 air/fuel ratio. E85 is much cheaper but milage goes down so you dont end up saving anything, but it is 105 octane. Hmmmm, basically cheap race gas that I can get easily and for about the same cost per mile as 87. Is there really a question? ;). If I decide to do it, I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

I've never heard anything bad about FFWD Connection so I would go to trust a cam that they sell and/or warranty. Definitely get some logs for us though.

Got them today (shipping took like 2 days!) The look sweet. I'm just waiting for the car to cool down, i just took a log with 2 3rd pulls i'll post em when i post the after log too.

cool

Bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! I just finished putting the cams on, started it (sounded so fucking sweet!!!) Start driving it and it made a popping sound and started driving really shitty. well i wasn't far so i pretty much coasted home. I checked everything over nothing messed up then i try to start it again and nothing. I Thought oh shit my timing belt skipped and fucked my valves. So i turn it over by hand and it started off ok then got really hard. I'm like great... fucked the valves. So I stop and ask my brother to try and turn it. It turn like butter (i'm not sure butter turns but who knows) and of course he's calling me a pussy and shit, but then it gets hard again, we waited a few seconds and then it was easy to turn again! I looked into it and i think the oil pump check valve has gone bad cause excessive amounts of oil pressure. I haven't torn anything apart yet cause i'm not possitive but another thing was the past couple days when i open the hood the dip-stick was out a bit. Didn't think much of it till now, man this blow fucking ass.

Do a quick compression test and then you'll have an idea if you fucked anything major.

leakage test might work a little better

error in installation?

Did you oil the cam journals when you put them in? Will compression change with more aggresive cams?

"as you don 't rev really high like more than 8k"

Wow, I would only be taking it to 7,200 because thats where the rev limiter is lol.

Get dsmlink and you can take it where you want!! But im sure you know this allready, but i thought i would say it anyways :rofl:

It's supposed to get easy and hard as you turn it by hand. You're building compression in the cylinder ;) If the timing was off, it would have been porked from the start. If you didn't mess with the tension, there is no reason for timing to jump unless you left the cam gear bolts loose. Pull the oil fill cap, and have someone crank the motor. If the cams turn, that's good. Then take it one step further and make sure it's still timed right. More than likely it's something stupid, like a sensor you forgot to reconnect or fell off, like the CAS. Hopefully.

Well i had all the spark plugs puled so i don't think i was building compression. The cam gear were torqued to spec (58-72 ft lbs) I really think it's the oil pump pressure check valve. because as i turn it the oil builds pressure and i let it sit for a minute and it's easy to turn again. I left the t-belt on and clamped it to the cam gears so it's not a timing issue. I used assembly lube on the cams before i put them on. I was thinking that could have plugged the oil filter but i doubt that I'll pull that off before i take anything else off. I wonder if i can finish this today... I have all the parts so it looks like my car get a new timing belt and pulleys. (poor talon has to wait a little longer :( )

EDIT: Why are you guys up so early!?!?! I have dsmlink talon69, i guess i should add that to my signature.

oil filters have a bypass valve so if they do get clogged oil can get around it still so you can rule that out. You said it didnt start at all? Something similar happened to me, the dowl pin on the intake cam snapped causing the gear to turn but not the cam and it ran fine for a while but then just studdered and died so maybe you should look into that.

No it did start, ran and drove a little bit. I checked the dowels they're both there. Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

What I ment was does it still start.

Did you torque down the cams right? I was thinking if you forgot to torque them down, they may have worked loose and been moving up and down between the head and cam caps.

Well it might start now but i don't want to try because i've heard the oil pressure can reach 700psi unregulated and basically destroy every seal and gaket in the engine. Yeah i torqued the cams down right and in the right order too. I checked all that stuff. I really hope it is the oil pump cause i can't think of anything else.

oil pressure is regulated by the bearings all the pump does is supplys volume

oil pressure is regulated by the bearings all the pump does is supplys volume
There's a check valve in the oil pump that regulates oil pressure.

Other then taking your timing belt off, replacing your cams, and putting the shit together, you didn't do anything else?

PS. If their is somthing wrong with your oil pump, you might as well sell me your used cams cheap so you can fix your problem. Just kidding. I really don't know how to check that shit, never done it. I doubt that would be the problem, unless its just sure fucking coinidence. Cams dont change oil pressure.

Have you tripple checked your CAS, harness's, tention? Could your CAS pooped the bed?

Other then taking your timing belt off, replacing your cams, and putting the shit together, you didn't do anything else?

PS. If their is somthing wrong with your oil pump, you might as well sell me your used cams cheap so you can fix your problem. Just kidding. I really don't know how to check that shit, never done it. I doubt that would be the problem, unless its just sure fucking coinidence. Cams dont change oil pressure.

Have you tripple checked your CAS, harness's, tention? Could your CAS pooped the bed?
No i didnt change the timing belt i clamped the belt to the cam gears and left them in place as i changed the cams. I think it is a coincidence becasue i have been having weird problems with the dip-stick and i was burn a little oil just before i did the cams. Also I forgot when i got home after the test drive there was a spot of of splattered on the hood and valve cover and i can't figure where it came from. But oh well worst case senerio i do this and it doesn't help and i have a new timing belt and oil pump (well no new oil pump but a different one).

You could have still jumped the timing a tooth or two doing it that way, did you check the timing marks?

You could have still jumped the timing a tooth or two doing it that way, did you check the timing marks?

Exactly.. Along with a compression test

yah, he is convinced it is the bloody oil pump, hopefully that will fix it, but he is inside watching the fucking simpsons instead of getting his shit on... I wouldn't think that assembly lube would clog the oil pump..... Just a side question, Do you really need to put assembly lube on the cams? Couldn't you just pour oil on them, or put them in a pan full of oil?

yah, he is convinced it is the bloody oil pump, hopefully that will fix it, but he is inside watching the fucking simpsons instead of getting his shit on... I wouldn't think that assembly lube would clog the oil pump..... Just a side question, Do you really need to put assembly lube on the cams? Couldn't you just pour oil on them, or put them in a pan full of oil?
Thanks for the input, no i never said the assembly lube would clog the oil pump. I said the oil chek valve which regulates oil pressure has gone bad increasing the oil pressure. Nothing else is wrong i turned the engine over by hand and it was fine until about 3/4 of a turn the it got hard if i left it for a few minutes it was really easy to turn again, when i say it was hard to tunr i mean damn near impossible, i had a 18'' pry bar and could not turn it but after a little while it turn with ease. If anyone can think what else this could be im all ears but i'm sure it's not the timing for two reasons, it ran fine at first and i checked it before i tore it apart and it was fine.

I'm pissed cause i have to take the damn oil pan off to take the oil pump off, i'm pretty close to taing everything off i figure i have 5 hours of work and i'm done. Sorry to rant but i' just a little annoyed.

It shouldn't be that bad, Myabe an hour to take the t-case off and the exhaust, draining the oil would be like 20 min.... oil pan should take like 10-20 min, then cleaning and shit.... fuck... that is like 3-5 hours.... because you got to put that shit together as well, and it is always harder to put shit back together... Maybe being on the hill will give you a little more leverage when putting the t-case back on...

There are a couple of unrelated problems being described here and adding to the confusion, as well as a lot of misinformation/misdiagnosis :) I still maintain that it's going to be something simple.

Oil pressure is not regulated, but there is a relief valve immediately after the oil pump. No way it can raise pressure, unless at very high rpm (9-10k) where it can become a restriction raising pressure. The oil pump can not put out any significant pressure turning by hand or even at idle.

Didpstick popping out has nothing to do with oil pressure, and everything to do with crankcase pressure.

Using the "RRE method" to change cams is how I do it too. The cams will still be timed relative to each other, it's the crank you have to worry about. Make sure the marks all still line up. Do a compression test. Then look for the easy/simple problem that is holding you up.

And if I'm up early, it's because I haven't gone to bed yet. 13 hour night shifts are a bitch :D


Edit> Even with the plugs out it will get harder to turn, but in this case because of the valve spring pressure.

Its kind of amazing what people will believe when Kevin says it but not when I do...anyway ez sorry to say but I think you have a timing problem. Just do a compression test, it will take all of 2 minutes and you can rule something else out.

I do notice that all the time, but I hope people don't believe things just because I say it. :) I'm dfinitely not always right.

I'm still confused as to why it was easier after I waited for a little while, like pressure was built up somewhere and it disipated if i waited a little while. I had the valve cover off and it wasn't always on the same valves. I'm really confused, i have the timing belt off right now but i'm debating continuing with the oil pump change.

has your motor showed any signs of low oil volume? If not there there isn't any reason to change the pump because that is ALL it does. Did all this pressure gradually build up or did it happen all at once? Think about it logically, what causes resistance? There is compression pushing back, but you said you have the plugs out so that is ruled out, there is of course hitting valves, that would cause it to be extremely hard to turn over but it wouldnt just go away, there is...well that is about all I can think of right now. Just get out and do a compression test and figure it out.

Wel i have the timing belt off so i can't really do a compression test. Man this is fucking annoying. I'm totally stumped.

do a leakage test then, all you have to do is make sure the valves are closed, that will tell you just as much

don't i need a tester for that? do you know where i can get one?

I believe that was myself that was the first to say do a compression test, but yet no one listens to me. I agree with Kevin (and probably everyone else on the forum) that your problem isn't caused by the oil pump or any sort of "excessive pressure."

The leakage tester isn't really a "tester", it's more of a machine that puts pressure into the cylinder and you figure out where the leak is.

You should always check the timing when you're having problems with the car running, it's not hard for timing to jump, especially after you change something major that directly affects timing (cams and/or cam gears). Just because it was right on before and during doesn't mean it didn't change after. NEVER assume timing is good.

I checked the timing and it was right on. I didn't want to do a compression test because i didn't want to cause further damage to the engine if it was in fact bent valves.

all a leakage tester is, is a air regulator with a gauge on each side of the valve and you screw it in just like a comp test but it puts air in and tells you the % that is leaking out. I'm sure they sell them at parts stores

I checked the timing and it was right on. I didn't want to do a compression test because i didn't want to cause further damage to the engine if it was in fact bent valves.

Come on dude, you don't seriously believe what you just typed do you?

Haha i ddn't even ealize i said that, i meant i didn't want to cause further damage in the engine. Give me a break i had worked on the car for like 10 hours at that point. See my other post in problem diag...

You couldn't have possibly done more damage to the car even if there was originally something wrong, you would have done the most damage that you could do by driving it. A compression test wouldn't cause any more damage. Sounds like a bit of lazyness to me.

laziness? I just tore the whole engine apart!!! Go fuck yourself!! J/P. No i was really concerned that the oil pressure was going to fuck the bearings but now i know better i still need to replace them so oh well. Time to stroke off (or on depending on you're opinion). Anyway I discovered all the aluminum in the oil pan and the intake valves tapped to cylinders (it must have been off a tooth and i couldn't tell). So the plan is to stroke with 1mm oversived valves and dual springs. That should be a beast.

if you dont mind only revving to 7k, me, I'm going with a destroker and be revving to 10k:)

Meh how often are you actually going to want to rev to 10k? 7k is fine for me, i'll probably get a 60trim at the smallest. So when you're turbo spools at 7500rpms i hope you're happy :p

I ran my stroker to 8500.

Also keep in mind that larger valves are more likely to crash into shit :D You'll have to be even more careful.

:rofl: I dont know why, but that made me laugh. I think I remember reading that the O/S valves dont really do much for you until you are flowing 50 lbs/min or more. After reading about them when I was planning what I would have to do to my head, I decided against them.

Hmm.. maybe i wont go for oversized valves. I really haven't done a lot of research on engines yet but i plan for about 500hp, so i'll plan accordingly.