What?

Alright, I just got done reading the thread where scottsee was advertising his new website for his DSM community in the North West. What the hell? Bannable offense for advertising a website for North West DSM'ers? What the hell is that all about? I read the post over and over again, and maybe there is something I don't see there but never did I see him slander AF or any other website. He simply stated that the forum he was creating was going to be very straightfoward and easy to search for technical knowledge and how-to. How is this any different than Eagalicious advertising the GADSM website?
Josh I have nothing against you but I know you and scottsee are not the closest of frieds by any means but I have no idea why you would lock that thread and threaten to ban him for trying to offer a link for NW dsmers.

Now last time I checked AF was a place where you would come to get help from other DSM'ers about you car. Now we link dsmtuners, vfaq and other DSM sites religiously, why be indifferent about a website Scottsee posts up that might offer a way for our NW dsmers to get in contact with dsmers in their same area for assitance with their cars.

I think there is a large double standard here. The man is asking for help with his website and he gets hostility. I am raising the BS flag on this.
I don't care if I get banned but I think that was crap.

I'm wondering the same thing.

I'm with these guys. I saw it before it was edited by Josh and I found nothing there to be offensive to anybody here or to AF. I believe this used to be a place where we could openly discuss anything. I don't remember the thread for DSMONE getting locked or any problems arising because of it... I have nothing against Josh but I honestly think that there is something between them that needs to be settled outside of AF. Please don't be trying to stop another DSM site that could potentially help us bring an end to countless newbie questions that have been answered a thousand times already. :2cents:

:bs::1::iagree:Think those guys pretty much sumed it up!

Alright, I just got done reading the thread where scottsee was advertising his new website for his DSM community in the North West. What the hell? Bannable offense for advertising a website for North West DSM'ers? What the hell is that all about? I read the post over and over again, and maybe there is something I don't see there but never did I see him slander AF or any other website. He simply stated that the forum he was creating was going to be very straightfoward and easy to search for technical knowledge and how-to. How is this any different than Eagalicious advertising the GADSM website?
Josh I have nothing against you but I know you and scottsee are not the closest of frieds by any means but I have no idea why you would lock that thread and threaten to ban him for trying to offer a link for NW dsmers.

Now last time I checked AF was a place where you would come to get help from other DSM'ers about you car. Now we link dsmtuners, vfaq and other DSM sites religiously, why be indifferent about a website Scottsee posts up that might offer a way for our NW dsmers to get in contact with dsmers in their same area for assitance with their cars.

I think there is a large double standard here. The man is asking for help with his website and he gets hostility. I am raising the BS flag on this.
I don't care if I get banned but I think that was crap.

I completly agree with you. Now i haven't been here long but i read these forums everyday. What Automotive forums does not have, i can find answers to my questions searching different DSM forums. The more the better i think. Goodluck with the site Scottsee.

I don't have anything new to add, but I agree with pretty much everything said already. I was really confused as to why the thread was locked and the link removed.

I'm thinking it was the fact that it was a forum. Basically your asking members to go to another forum and possibly recruiting them from here which takes away add revenue. Plus you don't want every newb in here posting stuff like that. I think we need a forum for stuff of that nature. Or all the forsale stuff.. maybe a DSM general - Sale, Forum, and chatter thats kinda unmoderated.

But I think I understand where josh was coming from on that one so I side with him. *draws line in dirt with finger*

:banghead: I'm thinking it was the fact that it was a forum. Basically your asking members to go to another forum and possibly recruiting them from here which takes away add revenue.

This is exactly what I thought at first, but thne when I read definacy's post...its true that we are always bringing up tuners, and other FORUM sites. I am sure Josh has his reasons, just hopefully its nothing personal.

Even if it is against the forum rules to post about different forums and take ad revenue away, it's still retarded. I don't see why scotsee can't post a thread to help DSMers because it hurts some rich guy's pocketbook in some unmeasurable way. I hate these over-generalized rules. It's like saying "some people stab and kill people with knives so let's make all knives illegal." No, just stop the people using the knives for those purposes. If someone comes into the forum doing something malicious or disruptive then warn and ban him/her, but don't take it too far. Just my :2cents:

I really wanna know what happened to Scottsees post in this thread... I read it last night and this morning its gone... Anyone else wondering what the hell is going on here?

I never take anything personal on here FYI. If i seem dickheaded about it i apologize, i'm usually pretty lenient but there are some rules i do have to enforce, that being one of them.

I'm sorry but i find this absolute bullshit. Let's see... here's some threads in the first few pages
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=559945
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=556956
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=556040
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=516971
Oh and look a quote from our very own faq
"Forums
www.dsmtalk.com
www.2gnt.com
www.dsmtuners.com
www.racingknowledge.org
www.teamnabr.com (advanced tech only)"
What's the deal? Josh i don't mean to pick on you but, first you selectively show up, second you selectively enforce rules. Either enforce them or don't.

Well seeing how i can't get the link from those first few pages you posted to work i'll focus more on the second set of links. I dont think it takes a genious to figure out that those links were provided by the previous moderating staff and have been well known for as long as this forum has been around. On top of that those are the best references for anything DSM, but if you truly feel like those go along with the breach of user guidelines then i will be happy to remove them from our forum, i've got no problems with that. If you truly want me to start being more of a hard ass then i will. I'm always reading the forum, every day, just because i dont always post doesn't mean i'm not here reading everything. Shpyder and i let you guys have some freedom and not try and dictate like most other moderators i know do in their sections. If you're going to continue to whine and moan about trivial little things like this then expect me to be more of a dick in the future, but i dont want to be. If i see something that's a direct breach of user guidelines i'll take care of it. I'm sure there are some things i miss ocassionally.

Josh I understand your point, but you could have simply stated that what he did was against the rules and the thread was being locked, not "this is the shit people get banned for." I feel it was a little out of line on your part to take care of it in such an un-professional way, but what's done is done, let's just move on.

I understand that there are certain rules and guidelines related to this type of thing. What I don't understand is that scottsee was just asking people, at a forum where he knows there are many informed and intelligent people and has been a member for a long time, to help him out with his new site which when finished, could be used as another reference in our FAQ. He did not bash AF in any way or say "come to my site instead of AF". Chances are, every single person who participates in helping him get his site going will stay here and continue to be an active contributer. Plus, it is related to DSM's, so what's the problem? He is not spamming. This is not a dictatorship Josh. We are allowed to question when something is done that we feel was unfair and don't understand why.

Also, this is the first instance where I don't understand a moderating move you made. So in reference to the "continue to whine and moan about trivial little things like this then expect me to be more of a dick in the future", when else have people complained about something you did, besides your recent absense? Nobody here is looking for a fight, but we are allowed to express our opinions and question things.

Yes you are, and that's why i never lock any threads where you guys are complaining, i let you speak your mind.

you should of just edited his post. not a ban. hes been on AF for awhile now.

I don't see why being here a while makes any difference. And I don't get why everyone raves about how much they love democracy and yet the minute they're in a forum it's a totalitarian dictatorship that people think works the best. I think Josh is right that we need to stop bitching about things we don't like on the forum. Instead, let's actually CHANGE them so that they don't annoy people anymore. If the forum needs improvement then let's improve it. Or else how can you expect people to stay around?

Also, what rule does Scottsee's post violate? http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=443389

I must admit, I have been slightly ignorant of certain specific rules on AF set by the admin, as far as moderating goes. Though I have been routinely engrossed in moving threads to their correct places in the sub-forums, and closing threads that need to be locked, I did not fully understand how advertising worked on here. People have posted links and suggestions regarding other forums that slid by unnoticed by me, mostly because I didn't know I was supposed to be regulating them...the posts were issued by regular members regarding the betterment of a larger DSM community; not for any personal gain, which is why I felt even less inclined to take any action. Plus, the "for sale" had me in a knot as well; newbies posting items for sale were scrutinized more carefully than veterans getting rid of their parts.

This current situation, however unpleasant it has been, has perhaps woken me up to how I was lacking before in the way I moderated this place. The rules, of course, are set by Igor and other admin; not Josh or myself. If it were upto me, things might be a little more relaxed, but that is not my call, or yours. I hope we can put this behind us, be cognisant of the rules that Josh and I are required to enforce, and remind each other (newbies as well as older members) through PMs on what not to post.

Sniff....I love all of you guys...sorry, I'm getting a little emo here.

I don't see why being here a while makes any difference. And I don't get why everyone raves about how much they love democracy and yet the minute they're in a forum it's a totalitarian dictatorship that people think works the best. I think Josh is right that we need to stop bitching about things we don't like on the forum. Instead, let's actually CHANGE them so that they don't annoy people anymore. If the forum needs improvement then let's improve it. Or else how can you expect people to stay around?

Also, what rule does Scottsee's post violate? http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=443389


Spam, i'll leave a link in my sig to AF's rules.