LT1 vs. LS1???

Can anyone tell me what the major differences are between LT1 and LS1 engines? I know the LS1 is better and is used in the corvette and the newer upper model firebirds but what is it about the engine that makes it so much better? there both 350's right.:cool:

First off, the LT1 was used on vettes and f-bodies, and the LS1 has been used on both as well. The vettes had the LT1 up untill '96, then '97 they got the LS1. F-bodies had the LT1 till '97 and got the LS1 in '98. I don't remember when the vette and f-body first got the LT1 however.

The LS1 is an aluminum block, as compared to the LT1's iron block. There are differences in a number of the parts of the engine, they are just made differently, check into it. Both are 350cu.

True they are both 350's... the LT1 (I have) came through with 285 bhp and more torque than the LS1, it is a cast iron block. The LS1 has 305 bhp with a little less low end torque, and is an aluminum block. The are both strong and fast engines... and are perfect for the Camaros, Corvettes, and Firebirds that they have been dropped into!



;)

The LT-1 was first used in corvettes in 1992 and F-body in 1993. It shares most of its dimensions with small-blocks from years before. It has a reverse flow coolant system.

The LS-1 came out in the '97 vette. It is a whole new engine from the ground up. It is similar to y-block engines. The main bearings are bolted by four in the bottom and two on the sides. No parts will interchange with the two engines. GM decided to keep a pushrod style engine, but they made a whole new one. Camaros and firebirds have iron block LS-1's vettes have aluminum. The actual displacement of the LS-1 is slightly less than 350. But it is still rounded to 5.7 L. The motor was developed special alongside the new corvette. It had to pump oil in a 1g skid pad test. It holds more oil. The crank is drilled out for weight. It is pretty tricky stuff. The best in pushrod technology.:smoker:

Originally posted by dbiggss
I know the LS1 is better...what is it about the engine that makes it so much better? there both 350's right.:cool:

Better depends on how you look at it. In terms of torque, the LT1 was a marvel because it could produce its peak torque at an incredibly low RPM - 325 ft/lbs @ 2400 RPM in the F-Bodies, 330 ft/lbs @ 4000 in the C4's, and was tooled to produce even more low-end TQ for GM's trucks.

Thats the thing about the LT1 - it was designed to be the workhorse for GM. It powered not only the F-Bodies & Vettes, but also the Caprice/Roadmaster/Impalla, and was an option or standard engine on nearly all of GM's mid-full sized trucks & SUV's from '93-'97.

The LS1 in contrast had the benefit of being designed specifically for the new C5 Corvette. Like the LT1 it was slighly downtuned for the F-Bodies, but did not find its way into any GM trucks.

The LT4 engine which was available in 1996 was perhaps the greatest incarnation of the LT1. It was basically a factory hot-roded LT1 which produced the same tire shredding low-end torque but now had the horsepower curve that charged right up to the 6300 RPM redline (whereas the normal LT1's horespower curve tended to back down after about 5000 RPM).

In the long run, the biggest advantage the LT1 has over the LS1 is its cast iron block. GM experimented with aluminum V8's in the '60's only to watch them melt themselves. Even the new aluminum LS1 block has steel sleeves inserted into the piston chambers to prevent the block from warping/cracking. The LT1 block has the advantage when it comes to not only the availability but also the possibility of major modifications because of its durability. True, they are now figuring out ways to really bore and stroke out an LS1 by inserting better/stronger sleeves into the piston chambers, but based on its aluminum block I think it will only be a matter of time before we start seeing a number of these motors coming back with the same kind of serious structural failures that occured to aluminum blocks forty years ago.

lt1s are kinda the bitch engine, the reason why is cause small block chevys are popular for interchangability, the fact that the lt1 has reverse cooling and differnt heads and intake bolt pattern makes it harder to fool with. it has the dreadful optispark ignition that most people complain about as well. ls1s and older small block chevys have more advantages

Camaros and firebirds have iron block LS-1's vettes have aluminum.

Really? I thought the LS1's in the F-bodies were aluminum as well. I don't remember hearing anything about a cast iron ls1.

Originally posted by DeViL


Really? I thought the LS1's in the F-bodies were aluminum as well. I don't remember hearing anything about a cast iron ls1.

All LS1's and LS6's (in f-bodies and corvettes) are aluminum blocks. There are iron 6.0L blocks, but those are only in trucks stock.

Originally posted by 1BAD305
lt1s are kinda the bitch engine, the reason why is cause small block chevys are popular for interchangability, the fact that the lt1 has reverse cooling and differnt heads and intake bolt pattern makes it harder to fool with. it has the dreadful optispark ignition that most people complain about as well. ls1s and older small block chevys have more advantages

:) We gonna start comparing the good olde L98 now too?? (lol) I don't know why you're making it sound like such a horror story, cause you can go out and buy just about any set of heads or cam or whatever you'd like for an LT1 - there is absolutely no limit in parts or availability for that motor. In terms of intake, an LT4 can be ported to flow as much air as you could possibly desire - even a stock LT1 intake ported by the right person will make you look again at those flow bench numbers.

And by the way, you ever wonder how after years of milking as much horsepower as possible out of the first generation L98 V8 (5 HP here, another 5 HP the next year), GM managed to seemingly overnight boost the horsepower output of their second generation LT1 V8 by more than twenty percent??

Reverse Cooling :smoker2:

And hey 1BAD305, you and DeViL both have sweet looking F-Body's. Its nice to see those 3rd Gen's in such nice shape (I never see ones in good condition around here anymore). Your rides are the ones that got me interested in F-Body's as a kid.

CHEERS

its not a horror story, he asked for a comparison and i gave him the facts. the LT1 is a nice engine but it doesnt share teh interchanability, as other year sbc's. also the optispark is somethin most owners complain about, i didnt say one thing about an L98 in there. thanks for the compliments anyway.

The optispark really isn't that bad, it is just something you have to watch out for when looking to buy a used LT1 and when you are having problems with your LT1.

I think the 1 downfall of the LT1 is the flow of the heads, and maybe the intake manifold. With heads and a cam, the LT1 is much nicer. LS1's make great power b/c high flowing stock heads, among other things.

Hey 1BAD305, what gears are you running in your IROC?

the 13.9 run it had the stock 3.08s

now it has 3.27s and a stock LT1 cam, its pushin 100mph passes, but with out traction i cant beat that 13.9 et, gotta get some stickies, and suspension mods.

last season:

now:

Wow, thats pretty damn good man. Here I'm ready for you to say that 305 is running like 3.73 gears or something. Fuck, thats really good (is it stick or auto?). My 4L60E 4-speed is turning 2.93's and everyone says "you'll be in the 12's for sure with a 3.73 setup", but I don't ever want to give up my top end.

I hear you about the stickies, last summer I was running BFG G-Force KD's which were pretty good(half worn out though), just put on new Firestone Firehawk SZ50EP's about a month ago and ran a similar best ET this past May two-four weekend - but both times were by just simply flooring it off the green. Every time I tried to launch it at around 1500 RPM(stock converter) the tires would bog (BFG's were the same way).

Yah slicks are definitely the way to go - every other guy this past outing said they never run without them. Slicks and a nice 3500 stall torque converter are whats next on my agenda.

But again, I am impressed! :coolguy:

its a 5 speed, this car has the advantage of the 5spd which soaks up less hp out of the little 305, plus its a bit lighter then the 700R4, and the gearing of the T5 keeps the car in its power band better. its also hardtop which is a bit lighter then T-Top cars aswell. i got it weighed at 3350 with me in it. so its not extremely heavy but it does have a lot of torque for sure! im not to sure of the setup on that LT1 with the 2.73s, but with some mid 3 gearing like 3.42s would work out great, u definitly wont loose top end. my car accelerates up to 130mph quicker and harder then it ever did with the 3.08s that are supposed to be "highway gears" it also is 2 tenthes faster then before too. yeah a stall converter definitly would be a plus on the launch.

specs for last season:

Ported Plenum
Centerforce Dual Friction
Poly Tranny Mount
Poly Torque Arm Mount
Modified Air Box
K&N Filters
Dynomax Headers
Dynomax Cat Back Exhaust
Hollowed Cat
Throttle Body Coolant Bypass
IAT Sensor Relocated
Emissions Delete
AC Delete

this year:

LT1 Cam - 3MPH gain, up to 100.2mph now
Descreened MAF Sensor
Ported Plenum
Centerforce Dual Friction
Poly Tranny Mount
Poly Torque Arm Mount
3.27 9 Bolt Rear - .2 tenth reduction this spring
Modified Air Box
K&N Filters
Dynomax Headers
Dynomax Cat Back Exhaust
Cat Delete
Throttle Body Coolant Bypass
IAT Sensor Relocated
Emissions Delete
HVAC Delete
12* Base Timing
Toyo Proxes FZ4s

my cardomain page:http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=251389&page=1

HEY DVS LT1 who were you racing in the second time slip. That person got a .505 reaction time. What kind of car was it?.....

These were full blown drag cars there man - everything from old Cutlas', Charger's, Duster's that all ran consistant 10's to 12's. (I think the car I ran against was a beige Duster with supplier stickers all over it, gutted interior, roll bars etc... OR, I think it might have been an early 1980's Mustang with a similar setup). Half of the cars were old drag beaters (This one rusted piece of shit 1950's Truck ran a 10 second ET).

The other half of the field were actual competition drag cars that came into the park inside their mobile garage trailers! Fastest car I saw that day was (what looked like) a silver LS1 Camaro - I knew this was a custom built-up tubular drag car when I saw him being pushed/towed to and from the line by an ATV. He ran a day low(from what I saw) mid 7 second quarter mile at over 160 MPH. NUTS! He was runninga 600+ cid big block, top fuel, etc.........

Bye the way my R/T's were better the times I actually launched the car, but the ET's were higher.

I don't have alot of knowledge about the LS1,but I do own a 2001 Z-71 with a 5.3 LS1 iron block.I just towed home a wrecked 2000 camaro with a 5.7 LS1 aluminum block.It's going in the 67.

Is everyone aware that there are two LS1s?
The much more common SBC based 5.7 and the Pontiac 400 R/A IV. As far as which is better...

Pontiac LS1> The others

Originally posted by Blue02R6
Is everyone aware that there are two LS1s?
The much more common SBC based 5.7 and the Pontiac 400 R/A IV. As far as which is better...

Pontiac LS1> The others

Technically, as far as 4th gen's go, there is only the LS1 and LS6, both of which are made by GM, and are 346cu aluminum block/head engines.

Originally posted by -cy-


Technically, as far as 4th gen's go, there is only the LS1 and LS6, both of which are made by GM, and are 346cu aluminum block/head engines.

The LS1 I was refering to came in 1970 Trans Ams. I know about the new LS1, but LS6 do not come in F bodys. Well, some of the blocks are. However none came with LS6 heads, ect. I was just letting people know about the old engine, after all Pontiac had the best back then. Just think of all the SD's and R/A's.

I never said they came in fourth gen's .

Originally posted by Blue02R6


The LS1 I was refering to came in 1970 Trans Ams. I know about the new LS1, but LS6 do not come in F bodys. Well, some of the blocks are. However none came with LS6 heads, ect. I was just letting people know about the old engine, after all Pontiac had the best back then. Just think of all the SD's and R/A's.

I never said they came in fourth gen's .

Well, i think its obvious that the discussion is about the LT1 and LS1 as reffering to 4th gen f-bodies.

Also, you are right there were no LS6's in f-bodies stock. In late '01 and '02 some of the LS1 f-bodies got the LS6 block as well as LS6 intake manifold. The only difference was better crancase ventilation and some other smaller things.

Anyways, this is a discussion about LT1's and LS1's.

Which is better? I think it depends on your wallet and time you are willing to spend moding it. If you wanna just drop it in, then i'd say LS1. An Lt1 with some ported heads and healthier cam its there with LS1's.

If you have the cash, i'd deffinitely say to go with an LS1, no reason to not to.

Both are great engines, LT1 has an iron block w/ aluminum heads, reverse cooled to get 10.2-10.8:1 CR. peak torque are ~4000 RPM, optispark ignition. LS1 has an all aluminum block/heads, its powerband is higher in the rpm band. Ignition is individual coil packs for each cylinder sitting on the valve covers.

Having a 92 vette w/ a LT1 and 6 spd ZF trans has been great. The engine runs hot though (200-215) and early LT1s leak oil from their rear mains (not much though). Only complaint is that there's not that much LT1 performance aftermaket parts. Car consistently ran mid to high 13s in the quarter.

I bought a 99 Z28 to replace the vette since one I raced pulled on me. The LT1 is a great engine, the LS1 is simply awesome. It runs cooler since its all aluminum. Doesn't need reverse cooling for 10+:1 CR and doesn't leak a drop. There are much more aftermaket performance parts for it. It runs a little rougher than the LT1 though. The LS1 camaro runs mid 13s in the quarter, working on getting into the 12s :)

You can't do wrong going either way. If you're going to do some serious engine work -stroker motor- you might want to go with an LT1, otherwise get the LS1.

Just my 2 cents for what its worth...

...the LS1 is simply awesome...It runs a little rougher than the LT1 though.

I've seen a modified LS1 C5 with a big .590 lift cam and this engine purred like a Cadillac. I'd have to say the LS1 runs much smoother than the LT1. A lot this has to do with ignition, namely the individual coil packs and reverse firing order of the LS1.

EDIT: sorry about jumping back into this old thread. No more.

Only complaint is that there's not that much LT1 performance aftermaket parts....
Now that is just not the case today, You tell me what type heads you want , exhaust , ignition , injectors or programmer's and I will send you like 20 different versions of each one, but the rest of your post seemed right on and DVS I have heard that some early model LS1's do tend to run a little rough too but with that ignition which is awesomeI don't see why , someone needs to make a kit where you can replace opti with the coil per plug system

LT1 was in the 93-97 Fbodies and 92-96 Vettes. It is an iron block with aluminum heads. Has a reverse direction(flow...coolent goes to the heads and then the block vs. normally the block then the heads) cooling system with the first non-distributor ignition system(al la Opti-spark). Power ratings were 275(93 Fbodies) and 285(94-97Fbods)....300 for the Vettes. LT1s are 350 Cubic Inches.

LS1 is found in the 97+ Vettes and the 98-02 Fbodies. It has coil on plug ignition system. Aluminum block and heads. Normal cooling system. Power ratings were 350 for the Vette and 305/315 for the 98-00 Fbodies/WS6&SS and then 310/320 for the 01-02 Fbodies/WS6&SS. LS1s are 346 Cubic inches.

Basically, the ONLY thing that you can swap from engine to engine is the hydrolic lifters. Everything else between the 2 engines are different. Is one better then the other? Depends on your taste. LT1s have more low end grunt(peak power wise) but LS1s have a better top end. Both have nice torque curves, 2500 or so for peak torque on the LT1 car and 4100 for the LS1 cars.

I like both and it depends on how much you want to spend when it comes down to it. Both can be made to be VERY fast. Either way, you come out with a good car with a good engine.

Ls1 Definately Kicks Ass Ove Rthe Ls1. So Uch More Power And Overall Stronger Engine.

Ls1 Definately Kicks Ass Ove Rthe Ls1. So Uch More Power And Overall Stronger Engine.

:eek7:

Umm...LS1s kiss ass over the LS1? :loser:

El Tee Juan(LT1 for the non-ricers) cars are just as good as Ellis Juan(LS1) cars. Engines are just a little different on how they make power. The fastest 4th Gen Fbody is an LT1.

I hate this LT1/LS1 BS that is going on between 4th Gen owners. Just be glad you're not driving a Ford :lol2: :rofl:

To tell you the truth I like the LT1 VS LS1 owner BS, It makes me go that much farther to make my car the car that the LS1 owner states my car is not and while the LS1 is a more efficient engine out the box with the aftermarket's help the LT1 has unlimited potential and without competition we don't try as hard for perfection

I have had two LT1s (93 & 95) and two LS1s (99 & 2002) in the past 11 years. Both of my LS1s developed piston slap when I take off from a cold start in the morning (or whenever). They are fine when they warm up, but cold is not good.

I even had to have some corrosive stuff sit in the cylinders overnight to remove the carbon deposits on the top of the pistons to try to reduce the piston slap. That is their cheep way to get around a recall (it worked, but it seems like something that you should not have to do at 30K miles). My newest one (8K miles) has it already and I am bracing myself for more wrangling at the dealership. Never had a problem with my LT1s, they were rock solid.

When they did the upgrade to the LS1, they also changed the transmission and the rear axle to have an electronic controller(s) and that is why the “performance transmission” button went away (again LT1 wins, I liked the button!).

Don’t get me wrong I love my LS1, but it seems a little less tired and true then the LT1.

F-Bodies Rule!!!!

Jeff

To tell you the truth I like the LT1 VS LS1 owner BS, It makes me go that much farther to make my car the car that the LS1 owner states my car is not and while the LS1 is a more efficient engine out the box with the aftermarket's help the LT1 has unlimited potential and without competition we don't try as hard for perfection


I understand that. Its all in good clean fun when its between friends, but sometimes on other boards, the LT1/LS1 arguement gets WAY out of hand which is what I can't stand.

I have had two LT1s (93 & 95) and two LS1s (99 & 2002) in the past 11 years. Both of my LS1s developed piston slap when I take off from a cold start in the morning (or whenever). They are fine when they warm up, but cold is not good.

I even had to have some corrosive stuff sit in the cylinders overnight to remove the carbon deposits on the top of the pistons to try to reduce the piston slap. That is their cheep way to get around a recall (it worked, but it seems like something that you should not have to do at 30K miles). My newest one (8K miles) has it already and I am bracing myself for more wrangling at the dealership. Never had a problem with my LT1s, they were rock solid.


yeah, Ellis has some issues. the piston slap that you hear is normal on the LS1 cars. As is a little oil eating problem(blame the smart guy who designed the PVC system)....but that's what catch cans are for :biggrin: (if you don't know what I'm talking about, ask me and I'll show you).

If you're oil consumption is really bad...have the dealership put you on a scheduled oil consumption test. I wish I still had the paperwork(its lost in my stuff packed up in Lancaster PA and I'm out here in Las Vegas NV) but it was a recall on any of 01 and 02 cars that had excessive oil consumption because the #1 cylinder was overbored. Solution was that they had to tear down the engine and replace the piston and rings.

I have a very slight piston slap on my 98..but only if its really cold outside(talking 30s and lower).

Either way, both engines are great. I <3 4th Gen Fbodies.

The one rule that everyone has to remember is that your never going be the fastest and that everyone should show respect to get respect and it would never get out of hand and I would never try so hard to take down my LS1 brother's if I didn't have so much respect for them

And I agree. I enjoy and respect the LT1. I almost bought a 97 LT1 Camaro, but I found this 98 LS1 at a better price. Its all in good fun to me anyways. So its all good. What mods do you have done to your car?

Hooker Long tubes, Borla Catbacks, Accel 300 ignition, 3.73's gears, Transgo shift kit, corvette servo, lt4 KM, IAT relocator , TB bypass ,K&N CAI, Airfoil, PCM tuning and I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff

Oh yeah 160 Temp thermostat and 1LE elbow

can you get a shift kit for an automatic 98 trans am ls1?. Oh and is a piston slap somthing i would hear or feel? i never had anything like that,that i know of on my TA and it has 54k miles what is it?

You need programming before you can install a Transgo and piston slap is something you should only be concerned about in winter and yes you will notice it , if you had it

ok well i just ordered hypertech 3 power programer along with 160 thermo will be here tomorrow actually :) and also getting 3.73's installed on friday. besdies that got catbacks. is the shift kit very beneficial could i get it after the programmer? Also what else do you suggest i do next after those mods to my ls1

Nothing now I'm pissed , I say you never install the mods so I can still beat you! and the shift kit is great as long as you do the install with the higher performance setting's(they give you options on which springs to use and how many washer's) and I don't think you can program for a Transgo with a power programmer but I could be wrong your best bet is to call transgo to find out

yeah, Ellis has some issues.


...but that's what catch cans are for :biggrin: (if you don't know what I'm talking about, ask me and I'll show you).




I don't know what you are talking about please do show me.

I do know that my 2002 has piston slap at 8K miles and it took 30K for my 1999 to get there. I have not had it enough to know if it is loosing or burning oil (I don't think that it is leaking).

Now you have me concerned. Can you give me more info on this?

Thanks,

Jeff

I don't know what you are talking about please do show me.

I do know that my 2002 has piston slap at 8K miles and it took 30K for my 1999 to get there. I have not had it enough to know if it is loosing or burning oil (I don't think that it is leaking).

Now you have me concerned. Can you give me more info on this?

Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff...no problem. tomorrow AM, I will take a picture of my catch can on my car so you can see. They are about 20.00 at home depot. They are really moisture canisters for the air compressors. Just add them in your PVC lines. I have one on the line going from the valve cover to my blower inlet hat(on your car it would go to the throttle body). I will install a 2nd catch can from the valve cover to the intake. All LS1s burn a little bit of oil, especially if you don't have the catch cans(basically, they catch any oil that might make it into your intake then engine). Oil in the combustion chamber mixing with the air/fuel ratio is not a good thing for power output. If you are worried about your engine eating oil, keep an eye on it and if it goes down really fast, have your car put on an oil consumption test at the dealer. if it fails the test('eats' to much oil), they will replace the #1 Piston and rings for you.

I think I posted up on here before about the overbore on #1 cylinder. As long as your are not burning crazy amounts of oil, don't sweat it to much. Just make sure you don't use more then a quart between oil changes. Piston slap is really noticeable if you have it. I hear just a very little bit if its really cold outside. other then that, I don't hear it.

Shoot me an email at [email protected] and I'll email you back the picture of one installed.

Nothing now I'm pissed , I say you never install the mods so I can still beat you! and the shift kit is great as long as you do the install with the higher performance setting's(they give you options on which springs to use and how many washer's) and I don't think you can program for a Transgo with a power programmer but I could be wrong your best bet is to call transgo to find out


:lol2: Thats funny! Time to start moding the LT1 <hands FormulaLT1 the powers of the ATI blower> :iceslolan

:biggrin:

OK....all the information I've seen writen is correct except for one thing. The LT-1 is a true 350, but the LS-1 is a 346, look it up on any car website like consumer reports.

OK....all the information I've seen writen is correct except for one thing. The LT-1 is a true 350, but the LS-1 is a 346, look it up on any car website like consumer reports.


As true as the ci #s are...LT1 being 350 LS1 being 346, I still wouldn't consider consumer reports a "car website". ;)

I just put a lt1 from a 94 camaro in my 92 camaro rs. What are some of the easiest things i can do to make this engine faster?

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