Question for Hotbug, Engine Swap
Insany
04-26-2006, 02:25 PM
Do you have the 2.4 engine or the 2.2 on your car?
I currently have the 2.2 on my 1999 Sunfire and was wondering if it would be an easy swap if I were to install the 2.4. I remember you told me last time you were near 500 hp, so that is more than enough for what I want my car setup to be =D.
I talked to several mechanics in my nearest Pontiac dealer and they all said that the engine swap would not be compatible with my car =\, however other Sunfires have the 2.4 engine installed when they came out of the factory. I don't quite understand why it wouldn't be compatible. Many said the same thing about my Koni shocks and told me they wouldn’t install them, so I installed them myself and they fit perfectly.
Also a quick question, you got any advice on how to drag race a Sunfire? Because I can't seem to make it accelerate properly on the track, yet in the streets my car runs great. I can reach 60-65 within 2 blocks (I would say it’s about 1/8 of a mile) but on the track is a different story =\. When I press the gas pedal almost all the way at the start it stalls then it takes off but by then the other car is 2-3 cars ahead of me. Although on the streets I don’t press the gas pedal all the way in….maybe that is the difference? Last Friday I got 19.7 sec at 72mph on the 1/4 mile, but I know my car runs faster than that. Since me and my bro timed it before = (.
Thank you for your time,
EC
P.S Or would I be able to get the 2.2l up in the 500 hp range at least?
I currently have the 2.2 on my 1999 Sunfire and was wondering if it would be an easy swap if I were to install the 2.4. I remember you told me last time you were near 500 hp, so that is more than enough for what I want my car setup to be =D.
I talked to several mechanics in my nearest Pontiac dealer and they all said that the engine swap would not be compatible with my car =\, however other Sunfires have the 2.4 engine installed when they came out of the factory. I don't quite understand why it wouldn't be compatible. Many said the same thing about my Koni shocks and told me they wouldn’t install them, so I installed them myself and they fit perfectly.
Also a quick question, you got any advice on how to drag race a Sunfire? Because I can't seem to make it accelerate properly on the track, yet in the streets my car runs great. I can reach 60-65 within 2 blocks (I would say it’s about 1/8 of a mile) but on the track is a different story =\. When I press the gas pedal almost all the way at the start it stalls then it takes off but by then the other car is 2-3 cars ahead of me. Although on the streets I don’t press the gas pedal all the way in….maybe that is the difference? Last Friday I got 19.7 sec at 72mph on the 1/4 mile, but I know my car runs faster than that. Since me and my bro timed it before = (.
Thank you for your time,
EC
P.S Or would I be able to get the 2.2l up in the 500 hp range at least?
hotbug1776
04-27-2006, 03:01 AM
ok, I will be close to 500 HP once the build is complete, that's still a bit from completion (time and money are my enimies LOL).
I have the little known 2.3L HO Quad4. The 2.3L (low output version) ONLY came in the 95 model J's. The motor in my car (the High output version) currently makes 195HP at the crank (tested before I bought it) and I am putting 165 or so HP to the ground (taking the 15% for drivetrain losses). that's 10 more HP than the 2.4L makes at the crank.
The 2.4L is the "son" of the 2.3L, and the 2.3L is the grandfather of the Ecotec.
In your case...you CAN do a 2.4L swap. you can also do an Ecotec swap if you really want to. This is the thing, you will have to do most (if not all) of the work yourself. you will need to get a donor car to do the swap, a Sunfire that was rear-ended will be just fine as long as the motor, drivetrain, and computer are in tact.
to do the swap, you need the tranny, axles, computers, possibly the gauges (I am not the best with the newer sunfires with the computer and BCM changes), the motor (of course) and several other small things, like power steering hoses, exhaust downpipe, etc.
Theres a lot to list. I'll write out an email to try and cover it all.
As for the drag racing, Auto or manual? Auto, put it in drive, hold the brake and the gas until the wheels start to want to pull the car (takes practice), when the light goes yellow/green, let off the brake and mash the gas.
Manual, hold the RPM's to about 2500 or so. When the light hits, release the clutch quickly, but not too fast, and lay on the gas, but not too fast, wheelspin is your enemy. practice your shifting, the quicker you hit the next gear, the less you will slow down and the lower your time will be.
Finally, I have never heard of or seen a 500HP 2.2L OHV. they just weren't made for it, and that is 400 more HP than they make from the factory. NOW, you have an option that the 2.4L people dont have, you can bolt in any GM V6 motor, the 200HP 3400 is a good choice, and it fits in with some work, the better choice (IMO) is the 3800 S/C, being 225hp factory, but can make more power with less work since it's already supercharged. they make a 3400 turbo kit which makes SERIOUS power, be prepare to buy tires a lot if you go with this route, as traction will be hard to find.
I'm not saying any of the swaps are going to be easy, and not cheap. My 500hp is running me about $6000 with finding deals and making most of the parts myself. Stroking the motor alone will run me $3000, and the supercharger and transmission parts will eat up the rest, not counting the stand alone I'll have to run after 350HP or so. Thats not suspension or brakes, or making the car look anything but stock (bodykit is another $1000, same with rims/tires, and paint will be close to $2500 on top of that).
Oh and I dont plan on racing this car, things break when you race too much. I might hit the track once or twice, and the dyno a few times for tuning, but I'm building for fun, not trophies.
if you need more, email me hotbug1776atneo.rr.com and I'll try to gather info as best I can for you.
I have the little known 2.3L HO Quad4. The 2.3L (low output version) ONLY came in the 95 model J's. The motor in my car (the High output version) currently makes 195HP at the crank (tested before I bought it) and I am putting 165 or so HP to the ground (taking the 15% for drivetrain losses). that's 10 more HP than the 2.4L makes at the crank.
The 2.4L is the "son" of the 2.3L, and the 2.3L is the grandfather of the Ecotec.
In your case...you CAN do a 2.4L swap. you can also do an Ecotec swap if you really want to. This is the thing, you will have to do most (if not all) of the work yourself. you will need to get a donor car to do the swap, a Sunfire that was rear-ended will be just fine as long as the motor, drivetrain, and computer are in tact.
to do the swap, you need the tranny, axles, computers, possibly the gauges (I am not the best with the newer sunfires with the computer and BCM changes), the motor (of course) and several other small things, like power steering hoses, exhaust downpipe, etc.
Theres a lot to list. I'll write out an email to try and cover it all.
As for the drag racing, Auto or manual? Auto, put it in drive, hold the brake and the gas until the wheels start to want to pull the car (takes practice), when the light goes yellow/green, let off the brake and mash the gas.
Manual, hold the RPM's to about 2500 or so. When the light hits, release the clutch quickly, but not too fast, and lay on the gas, but not too fast, wheelspin is your enemy. practice your shifting, the quicker you hit the next gear, the less you will slow down and the lower your time will be.
Finally, I have never heard of or seen a 500HP 2.2L OHV. they just weren't made for it, and that is 400 more HP than they make from the factory. NOW, you have an option that the 2.4L people dont have, you can bolt in any GM V6 motor, the 200HP 3400 is a good choice, and it fits in with some work, the better choice (IMO) is the 3800 S/C, being 225hp factory, but can make more power with less work since it's already supercharged. they make a 3400 turbo kit which makes SERIOUS power, be prepare to buy tires a lot if you go with this route, as traction will be hard to find.
I'm not saying any of the swaps are going to be easy, and not cheap. My 500hp is running me about $6000 with finding deals and making most of the parts myself. Stroking the motor alone will run me $3000, and the supercharger and transmission parts will eat up the rest, not counting the stand alone I'll have to run after 350HP or so. Thats not suspension or brakes, or making the car look anything but stock (bodykit is another $1000, same with rims/tires, and paint will be close to $2500 on top of that).
Oh and I dont plan on racing this car, things break when you race too much. I might hit the track once or twice, and the dyno a few times for tuning, but I'm building for fun, not trophies.
if you need more, email me hotbug1776atneo.rr.com and I'll try to gather info as best I can for you.
mike_05_sunfire
04-27-2006, 09:15 PM
Hey Guys,
Check out these links, GM front end drag using either the 2.2 or the 2.0, would take alot of modification but producing awesome power for a four cylinder.
http://www.sae.org/automag/techbriefs/06-2002/
http://www.gmtunertour.com/index.asp?section=B592A7DF2B4D41A78CF337DADAFAA851&page=CB86245EAD5A41F7888CA4991D4A10E9
Enjoy :)
Check out these links, GM front end drag using either the 2.2 or the 2.0, would take alot of modification but producing awesome power for a four cylinder.
http://www.sae.org/automag/techbriefs/06-2002/
http://www.gmtunertour.com/index.asp?section=B592A7DF2B4D41A78CF337DADAFAA851&page=CB86245EAD5A41F7888CA4991D4A10E9
Enjoy :)
Insany
04-27-2006, 10:38 PM
=D good to hear hotbug, I also want my car for just fun driving. I would probably use it for racing once a month only. I like driving where there are a lot of turns more than straight lines, its much more exciting. I'm going to start on that project, if I got any questions I'll email you =D. You always get the solution right when I have a problem, hehe.
Also thank you for the links Mike, the articles were cool. I didn't even know that GM raced the Sunfire and the Cavalier.
Thank again,
Insany
Also thank you for the links Mike, the articles were cool. I didn't even know that GM raced the Sunfire and the Cavalier.
Thank again,
Insany
hotbug1776
04-28-2006, 01:40 AM
nice links, go to www.j-body.org for all the info you need. I'm on there as well. the 2.0 and 2.2L Mike is talking about are the Ecotec motors, you have what is known as the 2200 (a revised version of the original 2.2L OHV motor). like I said, you can swap in an Ecotec, but for the amount of work, you are better off with a V6.
Go here for some V6 info http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=30&i=33041&t=33041
here for some 2.4L swap info http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=30&i=32986&t=32986
and here is some AWESOME Ecotec swap info. this one tells you that you will need to do A LOT of work to install an Ecotec http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=30&i=29941&t=29941
hope these help, I'll look for info on a 2.3L swap, but, it wont be much different than the Ecotec swap. since you will have to go to OBDI to run it.
Go here for some V6 info http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=30&i=33041&t=33041
here for some 2.4L swap info http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=30&i=32986&t=32986
and here is some AWESOME Ecotec swap info. this one tells you that you will need to do A LOT of work to install an Ecotec http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=30&i=29941&t=29941
hope these help, I'll look for info on a 2.3L swap, but, it wont be much different than the Ecotec swap. since you will have to go to OBDI to run it.
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