rolla reving @ 11000rpm?

yeah i don't actually own a ae86 i have a stock black zenki 240sx....
well n e wayz i was watching INITIAL D, and i was wondering whether or not TRD actually did produce an engine that revs up to 11000 rpm, and has sumthing like 200hp!? is this TRD Touring A engine for real, and is it possible for a normal person to buy it?:confused:

Yes it was real, yes there was such thing as class A racing, and yes there was a version of the 4age(or at least thats what it was based on) that reved to 11,000RPM and produced about 250HP.

No, you cannot get one. They were RACING engines. very exspensive, very hard and even more exspensive to maintain, and there weren't that many made. Plus they wre designed to run on race grade fuel.

I was playing GT3, and one of the prize cars was an AE86... its redline was 10 or 11k, so maybe it really does exist? *shrugs*

I know taking info from a game isnt really accurate... is it for real? I wanna know too...

-Grendel

Grendel, was it called a Shingeno(sp?) because there was a special 86 that was in GT2 with the Class A engine.

Originally posted by CAptynCrunch
Yes it was real, yes there was such thing as class A racing, and yes there was a version of the 4age(or at least thats what it was based on) that reved to 11,000RPM and produced about 250HP.

No, you cannot get one. They were RACING engines. very exspensive, very hard and even more exspensive to maintain, and there weren't that many made. Plus they wre designed to run on race grade fuel.

Cool... thanks for the info :)

So since they were a race engine, were they one of those race engines where you tear them down between every race? Heh that would be fun to have as a daily driver :P

-Grendel

Originally posted by CAptynCrunch
Grendel, was it called a Shingeno(sp?) because there was a special 86 that was in GT2 with the Class A engine.

I think i got the car in GT3... It was called something like Trueno Apex something... I think I still have it on my save game...

-Grendel

The 4agze replaced the old kent pushrod 1600cc in the Forumla Pasfic class (forumla ford with more hp) sometime ago, and was tuned to about 250 odd hp by a variety of ppl for the purpose. TRD were just one of the the engine developers who managed it. And 11,000rpm was about where they made that level of hp. (note the z indicates the supercharged version, which had an extra rib in the block making it a bit stronger)

200hp however with the right bits, and know how is not that had to get from a 4agze, altough it would not make a very useable street engine.

well it looks like a formula atlantic TRD 20v. you can get the parts for this engine from toyota they just cost alot. TODA also makes engines that are as good or better than the TRD.

BTW, I do own an AE86. It's an 87' coupe.

here's an old pic http://www.geocities.com/aphxero/stuff/hachi.jpg

I want a FA 4AGE! I was one one site and I saw someone had one in their 86! It was detuned to around 200hp though. :(

Originally posted by CAptynCrunch
Grendel, was it called a Shingeno(sp?) because there was a special 86 that was in GT2 with the Class A engine.

I believe you with this one. My question is, is it possible to get the car and if so, how?

It's possible to get the car in GT3! It's called the Shigeno GT APEX, because of Initial D, which was done by Shuichi Shigeno.

It has the TRD Group A engine, and suspension for driiiifting... it's a panda Trueno with the wheels from the Initial D 86 too. Doesn't it have a carbon fiber hood or something?

the Formula atlantic 4ag is based on the 16 valve 4ag as seen the first iD series. these engines rev to 11,000+ these aren't generally BUILT by trd but are required to use TRD-USA controlled cams and crankshaft. these engines make about 240hp in race-legal tune.
-these are supposed to be mounted in an open wheel race car in the formula atlantic champoinship and are probably not streetable like in initial D.


the GroupA 20valve as seen in second stage was intended for use in a steel-bodied production based race car so it's alot more Streetable and should be driveable on the street like in the show. These engines DO come from trd but anyone sufficiently rich could build a similar unit which also makes 255hp. Contrary to popular belief there is no reason why a well maintained GroupA wouldn't survive as a daily driver.

to better compare the two, a formula atlantic 4ag will rev to 12,000rpm or more but makes peak power closer to 11,000 where the groupA makes max power at a more sane 9500rpm and starts doing so sooner. redline is around 11,000rpm as in initial D

Originally posted by likwit_soul
yeah i don't actually own a ae86 i have a stock black zenki 240sx....
well n e wayz i was watching INITIAL D, and i was wondering whether or not TRD actually did produce an engine that revs up to 11000 rpm, and has sumthing like 200hp!? is this TRD Touring A engine for real, and is it possible for a normal person to buy it?:confused:

a normal person can buy it.

jst to let you know the atlantic crank cost around 3-5k alone :)

yea i think me and a friend estimated the low cost to be something like 20-25k. personally i think i would rather buy a brand new car for that, then just buy an engine for an old one. and thats the low end, depending on how much it would actually cost with shipping and what not it would probly be cheaper to buy a BMW from germany and have it ported over here.

i want to get my hands on one of bmw's formula one engines...

19000rpm redline!!!!!!!!!!!

heres an article i found on how it works....
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/021002.htm

I guess no one has ever heard about this car
http://www.twelve100.com/PHOTOS/IIda%20Ae86/134.jpg
The Iida Akira Group A 20V equiped AE86 Levin. Yes, it's streetable. For those who don't know Iida Akira, he's a GT500 driver in JGTC.
Here's more info about the Levin.
http://www.twelve100.com/faq%20and%20tech_pages/IIda%20AE86%20project.htm

right.

and WHERE are you gonna get the internals on THAT car?:rolleyes:

That man gets my undying respect.

What is the different in cost between the formula atlantic 4AG and the GroupA 20valve one?

I too have seen the Initial D TRD engine, it's mentioned once as being a race car engine from an AE101.

I was reading about a port that was made from an AE101 (or AE111) to an AE86 on club4ag.com and I glanced on the specs of these two engines (max pwer is about 165 hp at 7800 rpm with torque 16.5 kg/cm at 5600 rpm) is this the same engine as the one from Initial D or is there a way to make it rev up to 11000 rpm?

FA 16V 4AG cost anywhere from 9000 to 25000 USD.

9k is a used one, 25k is a new one, built by Holmgren.

remove the rev limiter, and you'll get it up to 11k rpm :)

Another option is the F20 from the S2000, it makes 247 hp in japanese spec, and they go for about $6K-$7K with tranny... I've seen one here somewhere...

Are you referring to removing the rev limited on the AE101 20 V engine or the TRD racing type engine?

What are the specs like on the AE101/111 engine? Is it as good as the TRD one? How much does one go for and the modifications needed to make it work in an 86?

you oculd get a 20V in a 86 working with about 3 gees i think. 4 would be for sure.

Ouch, I could have a Ford 5.0 V8 in a Series 2 RX7 for less than that, and that includes the car ;)

Originally posted by Lafora
you oculd get a 20V in a 86 working with about 3 gees i think. 4 would be for sure.


Thats bloody expesive.
I could buy an AE86, and a freash rebuilt enigne and get it it installed for less than that. Plus a coat of paint and some rust removal.

In NZ$:
1,000 for the engine.
3-4,000 for a clean tidy AE86
1,000 for installation (mounts odd bits and pieces etc)

thats only about 3 all up in US$.

Double that and you have custom suspension, roll cage and a race ready car. (seats, harness, wheels tyres, etc etc)




The 20Vavle 4age from the AE101 and AE111 is rated by Toyota at 160-165ps depending on year. (157-162ish hp)
Unforunatly its a very exagerated number.
Dyno tests here in NZ, give a number closer to 150hp at the crank.
And the cars performance is somewhat lacking when compared to SiR Civics (which actualy have 160-170hp and similar weight), Iv personaly walked on several of them.



It has little advantage over the 16valve when it comes to tuning.
Infact the only advantage I can think of is an improved torque curve.
The 16valve engine will make just as peak much hp and torque, is cheaper to get parts for, parts are more common, and there is a wider variety of suppliers to choose from.
There is more knowledge amonst engine builders and tuners on how to build them, and signifcantly more experiance doing it.
And you don't have to fiddle around with finding and aftermarket ECU that will run variable cam timeing and 5th valve engement, and spend time tuning it.
And of course you have to be useing the car in application where the increased midrange torque will be usefull. Either rallying, or as a weekend race car, and weekday road car. On a circut the extra midrange would rarly be used to any advantage.

So I take it that the engine from the AE101 itself does not rev to anywhere near 11, 000 rpm?

It would have to be modified to get up to the earlier mentioned 200-250 hp with 11, 000 rpm?

Would it be cheaper to purchase the original AE101 4A-GE engine and then have it modified?

I jump in to this page from yahoo search engine... Btw Hi evryone :)

I found everything about this engine , the picture a real story ...

ENjoy ! The $100,000 dream of a GT500 driver... (http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pages/IIda%20AE86%20project.htm)



:bigthumb:

http://www.club4ag.com/images/IIda%20Ae86/116.jpg

http://www.club4ag.com/images/IIda%20Ae86/130.jpg

http://www.club4ag.com/images/IIda%20Ae86/134.jpg

While all of this was taking place, Iida landed on his engine of choice… a Group A spec, TRD 4A-GE 20V, definitely NOT available to the general public… This 255hp power plant from group A racing field features non-VVTi cam gears with re-worked internals allowing race-tuned versions to rev to 11,000 rpm. The engine is also full dry sump, external feed oiling system. Iida took home the head and hand sanded all ports, and combustion chamber to mirror shine. He claims he took over a month to finish the polishing. The 3 angle valve adjustment was done on a Yasuda precision mill, which is accurate to 3 microns, as was the camshaft bearing bores. For those of you unfamiliar, it’s the same process that Toyota used for engines that went into the TS020 which dominated the GT1 LM class last 2 years at Le Mans, and probably also for Juan Montoya’s CART champ car’s engine, this year!…

Somebody found it before me :p ....(after re-view the topic)

btw , Initial D fans are everywhere .... :biggrin:

Ps: my favorites japanese driver .....The Drift King "Keiichi Tsuchiya" :bigthumb: http://www.driftclub.com/Keiichi1.jpg

Keiichi rocks!

:biggrin:

TED components in Toronto Canada does some 4age atlantic spec ....


my project was to buy the toda kit but the $$ is now going fast on the car and i think i will turbo the engine insted....

okay okay...i dont even own a toyota....i am a HUGE initial d fan..and 5am on a monday morning i find myself reading info on b20a engine swaps for my 89accord..and i decide hey i found where to buy the s13 the rx-7fc and FD engines...what about the 4AG...so i look and i find this thread about the 11,000 rpm revving AE86.....ive seen the show probably 6 times in its entirety....absolutely love it...lately ive taken an interest in the actual car and its many drivers and tuners.....this was a most interesting thread to read.....i was wondering where in the hell you could actually find an 86.....i saw an 80somethin corolla gts in the mall in charleston ONCE...i wanted to stare but i was late for work....i would love to find one of these hatches....the 86-89 accord hatch looks remarkable like the trueno (which is why i bought the accord cause of the flip up headlights)....but you simply cant find either car now :disappoin btw volumes 1 and 2 of initial d are out on DVD from tokyopop...(i work at a gamestop)....auto forums are the best thing on the internet i swear...keep it up guys

if you want to know more about 4age's and ae86 (chassi code for the 85-87 corolla GTS) tahe a look at

http://www.club4ag.com

it wiil show you all you need to know about the ae86 and 4age 4agze etc :iceslolan

actually i had just come from there...when google said 11,000 rpms i knew it was talking about the intial D race engine..so i had to find out more..thanks for the info

I have a 20valve in near stock form, racing I change about 8000, and it revs happy to the speed limiter at 8500 with hardly any power loss, blanacing the engine more and raising the com:ratio along with cams would have you on your way. it pulls away happaly from the 1.6 vtec range (altho i doubt type R)