2.5rs vs 300zx

Okay so i finally narrowed it down to these 2 choices.

2.5RS

pros:
-tunnable
-reliability
-familiar with it (spent a lot of time reading up on it)
-can be swapped with sti parts
-love the look
-awd

cons:
-hard to find
-even if you find one its either high miileage or highly mdified
-transmission needs to be swapped


300zx
pros:
-sleek look
-fast car
-rwd

cons:
-dont know much about it
-used ones are beat up from excessive drifting and etc.
-insurance cost
-older than 2.5rs

prices are about the same. help me out guys

If you really dont need the extra doors and seats, or the awd for winter, this should be perhaps the easiest decision of your life. The 2.5rs is a nice car in its segment (something competitive with a civic or a corolla), but the 300zx is one of the sexiest affordable sports cars of all time. On top of that, if your interest runs to performance, the 2.5 is a sporty small sedan, but the Z is a f***ing madman. Besides practicality, there is really no comparison here. If you really want a sprots car... dont compromise, dont settle.

I don't know why you say that the Subaru "needs its transmission swapped"

how about actually going and finding two examples first, have a little drive of them and see which one you prefer?

i'm looking for a performance ca that i can use for daily commuting as well. if i do get a 2.5rs, im planning to swap in sti engine and transmission into it.

If you're talking about a z32 300ZX TT, then that's what I'd go with. It also features Nissan's Super HICAS all-wheel steering. It's the closest thing to the GT-R that Nissan released in the US.

excerpt from everybody's friend, wikipedia:

The Z32 300ZX Turbo was on Car and Driver magazine's annual Ten Best list every year it was available, from 1990 through 1996. The Z32 Turbo was also Motor Trend's Import Car of the Year for 1990. It was critically acclaimed by many magazines as being a complete turnaround from the Z31, which many critics felt was a sloppy-handling GT, far from the agile, sporty 240Z of years past. From the year it was introduced, it won many comparison tests against similar Japanese sports cars such as the Mitsubishi 3000GT/Dodge Stealth and the Mazda RX-7, as well as the Chevrolet Corvette, Toyota Supra and the Porsche 968.

I'm a Nissan fan, though, so I'm probably biased. The best way to tell for yourself is to test drive them!

i'm looking for a performance ca that i can use for daily commuting as well. if i do get a 2.5rs, im planning to swap in sti engine and transmission into it.


what?
why don't you just get the STi in the first place?

go rs... an ej20t swap is a very good way to gain extra power... or is it ej25t for u yanks?

300zx no question about it. it is a real sports car.

i've driven a 2.5 RS on a few ocasions and i've got to say that it has very little get up and go. if you're gonna go through all the trouble of engine and tranny swaps to make your 2.5RS into a wrx or STI then you might as well get the WRX(sti) to begin with. personally, i'd get the 300z.

Why don't i get an STI or WRX instead?

1) can't afford them at the current price.
2) i will be driving the car to my first year in college. getting a car that stands out doesn't sound like a good idea.

buying an RS and then buying the engine+transmission from a STi and having that installed is cheaper than just buying the STi?

from what everyone who has done the swap said, yes.

buying an RS and then buying the engine+transmission from a STi and having that installed is cheaper than just buying the STi?
I second that yes. It is MUCH cheaper to buy it in the first place.

I'll go by aussie prices but you'll get the idea.

STi 6 speed with DCCD 6-8000
EJ25T - 5-8000

And don't forget the brembos! They cost around 4000 for the kit.

An STi is so not an impreza with more power. Even if you do the whole conversion, you'll get a sloppy "STi"

Think about it as the diff between getting a woman and a man with a sex change. I mean, you can always pretend...but in the end you'll be gay =P


Oh and....get the Z

Think about it as the diff between getting a woman and a man with a sex change. I mean, you can always pretend...but in the end you'll be gay =P


Oh and....get the Z

I got a video from Motorweek (http://www.dpccars.com/car-movies/05-04-06pageSubaruSTI22B.htm) that begs to differ.:grinno:

You also have to consider when it comes to price whether you would like to own the 1984-88 300zx or do you only settle for the 1989+ ones, even though the 1st gen 300zx seems to make a fairly good rallier.

I got a video from Motorweek (http://www.dpccars.com/car-movies/05-04-06pageSubaruSTI22B.htm) that begs to differ.:grinno:

I couldn't see the video but in the description is says something about an STi 22B...but I was talking about the difference between an impreza modified to become an STi and an actual STi.

at the time the 22B was indeed a massively impressive Impreza but as a road car it was always flawed because of an over stiff ride, mainly down to it being more or less a wrc set up car that was tamed slightly for the road.
on the other hand, the P1 that came about a year (if i recall correctly) was done more or less the other way around. It took a road car and worked it to be more like the wrc car. In reality this is more a quesrion of semantics but in execution it lead to the P1 being the ultimately more useable and compliant car, especially on UK roads where much of the set up was done (seeing as Prodrive is UK based).

incidentally, the 22B wasn't a japan only car (as said in the clip) as the UK got a limited number of them as well.

Well after considerable amount of thinking, i finally planned on getting a wrx, only to be hindered by another thing.

I will be driving this car to college, which is like 7 hours away from home. as far as fuel economy on wrx/2.5rs go, is it bearable? or should i go for something cheaper like the si or gti which i know handles pretty well in long distance so that i can slowly save up for sti once college is over. any thoughts?

at the time the 22B was indeed a massively impressive Impreza but as a road car it was always flawed because of an over stiff ride, mainly down to it being more or less a wrc set up car that was tamed slightly for the road.
on the other hand, the P1 that came about a year (if i recall correctly) was done more or less the other way around. It took a road car and worked it to be more like the wrc car. In reality this is more a quesrion of semantics but in execution it lead to the P1 being the ultimately more useable and compliant car, especially on UK roads where much of the set up was done (seeing as Prodrive is UK based).

incidentally, the 22B wasn't a japan only car (as said in the clip) as the UK got a limited number of them as well.

As did Australia. There is one for sale now in Sydney for about 120K AUD but no one is willing to buy it becuase it cannot be complianced for road use and also the authenticity is in question (I think).

Being an Impreza fan, I am hard pressed, but have to agree with you about the 22B. As impressive a car as it is, it's not that desirable for road use (I will probably be outcast now in the impreza forums =P).

However, ultimately, the idea of the STi, imo, is embodied in the 22B (and to a high extent the P1) - a lightweight, rigid framed, 2 door, power and torque machine. Ooohh yeah!!

And as I said before, no matter what u do to an RS or other base model impreza, it will never be that true sense of the STi - even the new 2.5L STi's I don't consider to be a true STi because they're not built in the same spirit as the original ones that made the Impreza famous. I mean, 2.5L pfftt...

Unless there are modifacations made to the frame itself within the 22b, P1 and even today's STi you can give a RS that WRX feeling by upgrading the springs, struts and sway bar aside from all the engine and exhaust modifacations. I mean, I don't think triplerox is going to take his ride for extensive rallying anytime soon so it should be ok to have it close and not at the "STi experience."

Also, I do agree that when it comes to striking a balance of sportiness and comfort hardly anything comes close to the 300ZX in its price range. And you are aware that the STi is 2.5ls only in the US, so if you consider that killing their spirit than that must make BMW souless.:lol:

with regards to the P1, if i recall correctly, it was the Model that marked the biggest change in the WRC car of the same time with massive reorganising of the internal components of the car to make it more competitive in the WRC. However, i'm not entirely sure of how much this translated to the P1 road car.

i know what you're getting at though but it still strikes me as being sligthly strange why someone would do the engine swap instead of just getting the proper car.

i know what you're getting at though but it still strikes me as being sligthly strange why someone would do the engine swap instead of just getting the proper car.

They think it will give them the same car for less money.

Then they find out it won't.

I found two cars that i really liked, but i dont know which one will suit me. Couldnt test drive the si because its 5 hours away... for those of you who owned it, what do you think? which car has the best blend of power and handling?

2000 civic si $12500
30000 miles
[VERY clean]


2000 2.5rs $11000
61000 miles
[with greddy evo exhaust]

i am a college bound student so i will be driving long miles with these car. The only reason im not going for the si yet is because it's fwd....i really dig cars with superior handling such as the awd cars..

Decent 1st gen. 2.5 RSes are few and far between. Get it now!

For the price they are very clean cars...They still look Subaru boxy, decent interior, and the engine, compared to its WRX counter part, gives hustle very low in the tach...which is welcome compared to the constant turbo lag

Plus I never really liked the Si's in that generation

Id say take the RS, you won't be disappointed

Both engines are rock-solid reliable. The civic looks like a good deal being that it's only 30000mi, in fact I would probably buy that based on that fact. Of course, don't buy anything until you test drive it. I don't know, I think this is purely up to personal preference because both of these cars would be great for college.

2.5 rs. hands down :D

i've merged your three threads here because they are essentially a continuation of the first one.

The only reason to buy a 2.5 RS and do an EJ20T swap is if its a 1998-2001 2.5 RS, since we didn't have the WRX or STi here in the States back then. And that's not a bad idea at all. GC8s are pretty sexy, and it's not an overly difficult or expensive swap. If you're talking about the new body style 2.5 RS, forget it; just buy a WRX and soup it up, or buy an STi. If you can't afford either one of those, then you're not going to be able to afford an EJ20T swap either.

Anyways, I own a 2005 2.5 RS, and I'm pretty happy with it. It's not the fastest thing in the world, but it's very fun to drive. It has plenty of power in the lower RPM range (below 4000), but after that, it falls flat on its face. It's good for around-town spirited driving, highway cruising, and autocrossing; if you wanna drag race, get something else. I don't regret not buying a WRX back in '05, though the '06 WRX is pretty tempting, what with its vastly improved motor, stock 17-inch rims, upgraded brakes, and good sound system.

Though I'm obviously an advocate of the 2.5 RS, the Z32 300ZX is, in my opinion, one of the most beautiful cars ever made, and it perfectly embodies everything that a sports car should be. If I had the balls to buy a 10+ years old sports car, I would have probably gotten one. If you don't get much bad weather where you live, and you think you can handle the possible maintenance issues of an older sports car, then get a 300ZX. Whether N/A or turbo, it's superior to the 2.5 RS in almost every aspect.

I found two cars that i really liked, but i dont know which one will suit me. Couldnt test drive the si because its 5 hours away... for those of you who owned it, what do you think? which car has the best blend of power and handling?

2000 civic si $12500
30000 miles
[VERY clean]


2000 2.5rs $11000
61000 miles
[with greddy evo exhaust]

i am a college bound student so i will be driving long miles with these car. The only reason im not going for the si yet is because it's fwd....i really dig cars with superior handling such as the awd cars..

so how does the civic si he mentions stack up against the 300zx and 2.5RS?

anyway,
the way i see it, if it were me choosing the car to buy, i'd first think about what kind of car i am after.
if i were looking for an out and out sports car with no need to consider the need to carry more than two people, then it'd be the 300ZX (i won't be looking for the 2+2).
if i want a car that is all round good with decent pace, then it'd an STi (since the 300zx and STi are pretty much the same price around these parts these days; year dependent of course).

of the two, i have a slight preference to the Subaru, mainly because i like the more practical nature of the car.

Since it will be my first sports car, is the 300zx n/a or tt recommendable?

If you feel reasonably confident in your driving skills and you don't plan on trying to test the cars limits then a Twin Turbo is not "too much car" for you. However, being in college, being your first sports car and being that the non-Turbo Z can still move pretty quick, I'd say that would be your better option. It's not like you can't trade up in the future if you decide the NA isn't cutting it.

I have to say that this is something i hear a lot of and don't quite understand.
just because you have a faster car with twin turbos and whatnot, it doesn't mean you have to floor it everytime or rev it to the redline before making a gear change.

would it be too much for you?
If you go harder and faster than you can handle; yes.
But then that wouldn't be because of the car, it'd be because you can't control yourself. Don't blame the car.

I have to say that this is something i hear a lot of and don't quite understand.
just because you have a faster car with twin turbos and whatnot, it doesn't mean you have to floor it everytime or rev it to the redline before making a gear change.

would it be too much for you?
If you go harder and faster than you can handle; yes.
But then that wouldn't be because of the car, it'd be because you can't control yourself. Don't blame the car.

Yeah, but it's a lot harder than it sounds to "regulate" yourself like that, especially when it's your first sports car. Bottom line, with a twin turbo, he's a lot more likely to get himself into trouble. But besides that, there's the cost issue. Besides being more expensive to buy, getting worse fuel mileage, and probably being a little higher on insurance, the 300ZX TT requires quite a bit more maintenance to keep it running in good shape, and it's not the kind of maintenance you can easily do by yourself. I'd say save yourself some money and a potential disaster and just get the N/A. It's got more than enough power to have fun with anyways.

Yeah, but it's a lot harder than it sounds to "regulate" yourself like that, especially when it's your first sports car. Bottom line, with a twin turbo, he's a lot more likely to get himself into trouble. But besides that, there's the cost issue. Besides being more expensive to buy, getting worse fuel mileage, and probably being a little higher on insurance, the 300ZX TT requires quite a bit more maintenance to keep it running in good shape, and it's not the kind of maintenance you can easily do by yourself. I'd say save yourself some money and a potential disaster and just get the N/A. It's got more than enough power to have fun with anyways.

word of the wise...

...true...

but i am still of the mind that it is always a good learning experience to crash a car and knowing that it was all down to your own stupidity. Nothing will teach you more self control in the future than cocking up.

...true...

but i am still of the mind that it is always a good learning experience to crash a car and knowing that it was all down to your own stupidity. Nothing will teach you more self control in the future than cocking up.

Uh...right. Thats why Drivers Ed now includes driving your car into a tree right?

Start with the slower car, take the time learn how to drive a bit beyond making a left into a parking lot and avoid a costly and potentially fatal mistake. Nothing good will ever come from getting in a wreck. Yes you can learn from it but you can learn the same damn thing with some time and practice.

no idea.
never been to your kind of driver's ed class.

anyway.
my point is, if you are the kind of person who is going to crash a car then it doesn't matter if it is the turbo or non-turbo one you are driving. The thing that is making you crash isn't the car you are driving but how you are driving it and if you are the kind of person who lacks control or otherwise unable to resist flooring it, then no amount of driver's ed is going to teach you.

sure you can learn to better drive a car and hence be more in control of the car but that doesn't address the resisting flooring it issue.

The idea is that its the likelyhood of a crash, which is not a yes or no thing. If you're a total dumbass then yeah, you'll probably wreck anything. But the other 90% of the population is usually capable of learning how to drive if they start off slow. A given person that may get upside down in a ditch with a Twin Turbo might just understeer a bit and learn something in a NA.

You can't look at it as either you're going to crash or you're not because that doesn't factor in learning. And you can not tell me that you don't think the more you drive the better you become at it, provided you are trying to do so. I don't know of anyone that has put in their time behind the wheel on some twisty roads that doesn't walk away with a better understanding of how to drive faster safely.

yes but that learning can be done in the turbo car just as easily as it can be done in the non-turbo car. It's all down to your levels of sensibility and responsibility.

yes but that learning can be done in the turbo car just as easily as it can be done in the non-turbo car. It's all down to your levels of sensibility and responsibility.

having a faster car increases your chances not to learn anything and do some major damage...i dont see how this point could be debated.

...that is assuming that he is careless and unable to control his left foot.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that it isn't worth spending a few hours in a slower car to get an idea of how things work but i just think you stand a chance of learning more, or at least make a little bit more effort to be careful and be more mindful in a faster car.

using me as an example.
stick me in a slow car and I will rev the nuts of it gong as fast as it can go.
stick me in a fast car and i will take a lot longer to figure out just how much of that performance I can use.
real world example.
I almost crashed my sister's ford ka after collecting it from the garage.
I slowed down at every junction in a cerbera.

...that is assuming that he is careless and unable to control his left foot.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that it isn't worth spending a few hours in a slower car to get an idea of how things work but i just think you stand a chance of learning more, or at least make a little bit more effort to be careful and be more mindful in a faster car.

using me as an example.
stick me in a slow car and I will rev the nuts of it gong as fast as it can go.
stick me in a fast car and i will take a lot longer to figure out just how much of that performance I can use.
real world example.
I almost crashed my sister's ford ka after collecting it from the garage.
I slowed down at every junction in a cerbera.

im not saying one couldnt learn on a fast car. im saying it increases their chances, that is all. the Z32 is already a dangerous car to drive hard, let alone in TT form. i would never recommend the TT to a new driver. they are bound to get in an accident in mommies camry let alone a 300hp RWD sports coupe.

fair enough.
i guess it does still just boil down to how you are behind the wheel of a car, which is the one thing we don't know about the thread starter.

stick me in a slow car and I will rev the nuts of it gong as fast as it can go.

I almost crashed my sister's ford ka after collecting it from the garage.

If you were driving stupid for any reason, especially if it was just because you were in a slow car, that smacks of a personal problem with restraint to me. So not to be too much of an ass but it sounds like you're in that 10% I was talking about. Maybe you should rethink how you approach things.

To try and put it in the simplest terms possible:

It's like in Grand Turismo. You pop in the game and try to learn how to play with a 500hp Viper you're probably going to crash because just when you think you're getting the hang of it and think you're ready to give it some stick the rear end slides out and you eat wall. You learn how to drive in a Miata most likely you're still going to get overconfident and lose control but because you're going slower you spin out or start to understeer and have to brake instead of eating wall.

It takes a lot more practice and time to learn how to react to a car that is at its limit then you'd ever think possible. At some point you will make a mistake and that mistake tends to be not nearly as costily in a less powerful car. A mistake that might be a major, perhaps life threatening, crash in a Corvette might be a minor slide in a Cavalier because of lower speeds, lower thresholds and lower power output.

There is no reason to recommend a more powerful car to a novice driver.

maybe i am that 10%.
i just remember someone pulling in front of me from the inside and the brakes not behaving how i expected them to behave and requiring me to cadance.

I agree, it's very rare that a faster car is going to make you want to drive slower to more thoroughly explore the limits of a car. Take me for a example. I'm a pretty aggressive driver by nature. Back when I had my Camry, I drove the shit out of it, but I never really pushed it as hard as I could, because...it was just a Camry. I knew exactly what would happen if I tried to take a 90-degree right-hander at 40 mph in that car. Then I got my '04 Lancer Ralliart, and suddenly, I was superman! It was considerably sportier than the Camry, and driving it back to back with my friend's Evo, though it obviously didn't perform nearly as well, it had the same kind of feel. Well, it took me a grand total of four days to smash that car into a wall at 78 mph, totalling it. So, I speak from experience when I say that moving up to a sportier car is going to make you want to drive faster.

However, at the end of day, it definitely does come down to the driver. When I get my Impreza last August, I didn't even push it at all for six months. I took it slow, gradually learning how the car reacts to trail braking, feinting, e-braking, etc., because I had learned the cost of recklessness. So, I would strongly advise starting off with a slower car and learning how to control your car before you step up to something like a 300ZX Twin Turbo.

To be honest, i am truly a safe driver. I never did any crazy things with my car. I may go past the speed limit most of the time but then who doesnt? I know the safety issues when it coems to cornering or driving in the hills so most of the time i drive safely around those areas. I guess you guys are right about putting a novice driver in a fast car. We won't really know what happen until i get in one. I won't be driving recklessly with it though, thats for sure. I just need to learn how to drive it properly.

if I were going to college I don't think I would be wanting a car payment anyway. Get something cheap and as new as possible.

To be honest, i am truly a safe driver. I never did any crazy things with my car. I may go past the speed limit most of the time but then who doesnt? I know the safety issues when it coems to cornering or driving in the hills so most of the time i drive safely around those areas. I guess you guys are right about putting a novice driver in a fast car. We won't really know what happen until i get in one. I won't be driving recklessly with it though, thats for sure. I just need to learn how to drive it properly.

Then just get an N/A 300ZX. It'll be cheaper in every way, and you'll have an easier time learning to drive in an N/A than a twin turbo. If you decide you want the twin turbo power once you get good with the N/A, there's nothing stopping you from buying one.

Alright guys, I think i'll probably will be searching for N/A 300zx. Anyone here knows much about it? How reliable are these cars? I found one within my budget, but it has liek 130k on it already.

Alright guys, I think i'll probably will be searching for N/A 300zx. Anyone here knows much about it? How reliable are these cars? I found one within my budget, but it has liek 130k on it already.

they are very reliable but they are older so they will have a few maitenance things to come along.

easily known to last 200k miles without any huge problems if well taken care of.

dont buy an automatic...try to stay away from the 89-90. thats about it...

it's goign to be my first time purchasing a used car from the dealers lot. what should i be expecting from the car? what should i look out for? any tips?

oh and also, whats wrong with the 1990 models?

it's goign to be my first time purchasing a used car from the dealers lot. what should i be expecting from the car? what should i look out for? any tips?

oh and also, whats wrong with the 1990 models?

ah...problem with Z32s (90-96 300zxs) is that they can hide problems really well, from the cramped engine bay to the sophisticated electronics. granted, the N/A is alot simpler and there are less problems that are easy to cover up (like overboosting).

basically, 90's had what they call "soft valves". i could sit down and explain it to you but all is it is that nissan changed the valves because some of the earlier ones off the production line tended to lose compression after so many miles. basically, if it hasnt happened by 100k miles, it probably isnt gonna happen. if your looking at automatics, im pretty sure the 90' automatics were a little less stout than the later models. thats essentially it...

just drive it, make sure it is solid, ask the owner about anything you see or find suspicious...if he starts getting jittery you know he is covering up something. sometimes it may be wise to take it to a experienced Z mechanic (if you live in an area with one) before you buy it and have them look it over. most shops charge like half an hour labor charge to do a pre-purchase inspection.

with the N/A...when looking it over...just look over it like you would with any other used car. ask questions...alot of times you can sense sketchiness just buy keeping the conversation going.

difference in models and some differences in years:

90's - no air bag
91's - some had air bags?
92's some had air bags?
93's - all had air bags, convertible model offered

2+2 - about 8 inches longer than the 2 seater and has a pair of book shelves behind the driver's seat. 100lbs heavier than 2 seater
slicktop - no t-tops and pure base models. 200lbs lighter than 2 seater coupe
2 seater coupe is the standard. weighs in at about 3300lbs.

those should be able the only variations in the N/A models. there were a bunch more changes with the TT models.

good luck

"Soft valves" explained:

The early models, mostly 1989 models outside of the US but a few early run 1990 US models, had an intake valve that was significanly harder than the later style vavles. Thats all well and good except that at higher rpms the valve would sometimes start to "bounce" off the valve seat as it closed. Meaning it closed hard enough it would bounce off slighly before closing, just as if you hit a piece of cast iron with a hammer, it would strike and bounce off a few times before laying flat. Anyway, that bouncing had a tendency to damage the valve seat which can lead to low compression.

Heres a bit more detailed write up:

http://twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg.aspx?forum=technical&msg_id=916703

Anyway, it happens with some, doesn't with others, there is hard driven 90 models out there with 200k+ miles on them without the symptoms of "valve bounce".

Here is a decent write up for purchasing a Z:

http://twinturbo.net/ttnetfaq/FAQpages/usedpurchasing.html

Z32s are pretty reliable, they don't really have any particular part or system that likes to break.

If an early model make sure the PTU recall work was done. It's located on the passenger side timing belt cover with two wires connecting to it on opposite sides. The original would be made of metal with ridges on it, the correct later type would be made of black plastic.

See if you can find out when the last timing belt service was done. Nissan puts timing belt replacement on the NAs out at 105,000 miles but given the service work done at 60,000 it's usually replaced then by owners. There is also a bit more extensive 120,000 mile servicing. You can get all of parts as a kit from places like www.conceptzperformance.com and its all pretty simple work.

300zx has much much more performance. really no comparison. i'v actually found decent tt 300's for 5 grand.. im actually looking for an n/a just because its a first car then later swap in the tt. i would definitly go with the 300zx unless you have to drive in quite a bit of snow and all. should be an any decision on this one.