FWD Vs. RWD

OK folks honestly speaking. Why is RWD preferred over FWD? what are the percks as compared?

it depends on what you want to do with it. RWD is better off the line because the weight transitions to the back of the car off a launch etc.. did you just mean for drag racing?

this discussion is going to get heated quick... I ask only that people keep it clean.... despite we discussing this numerous times... already...

It's a dead horse that's been beaten... but I'll allow it to go on as long as it stays civil.

RWD cars looks better and has better porportions :grinyes:

of course the reason why it looks so good is because the whole car is just better balanced front and rear, so they don't look weird from the side like some FWD's are.

RWD is better in all performance oriented aspects over FWD assumeing equal mass, weight distrobution, arodynamics, and suspension set up of the two cars being compared.

Almost every "performance" FWD car is an econo box or an econo box changed (either by the owner or the maker) for performance.

I think the whole fwd vs. rwd vs. awd is irrelevent these days.

Supposedly, FWD is better for economical reasons. less parts to maintain, less moving parts means less drivetrain loss, easier to control ect.

RWD is better for power transition off the line, easier to corner cause the stress isnt just on the front tires, they do suffer more drivetrain loss then FWD though.

AWD best for off road, high cornering, high rev line launch but they die on the highways cause of drivetrain loss and such.

But like I said thats less true as every day goes by. The Bugati Veyron is capable of 253 MPH stock and its AWD....where the heck is the drivetrain loss? Skylines kill Hayabusas on a highway roll so again...wheres the parasitic loss?

You got FWD cars like the grand am series Cobalt SS killing Evos and STIs and Skylines at time attack challenges. You got civics owning Ferraries at the road course, Golf and Jettas killing Porsches and Lambos around a race track.

and you got RWD cars like my GTO running the same times around a Lotus race track as an STI.

These days its all about what the engineers invision and how the car gets developed. the drivetrain is more of a nostalgic thing I think, some people are die hard fans of RWD, some would rather FWD.

I cant tell you this much Ive driven every drivetrain there is including MR and when it comes time to get my wife her next car I'll be pushing for a FWD. Its safer all around, really hard to loose control in and I rather her understearing around a corner and climbing a curve then overstearing and flipping or something.
you ever seen police chase videos, the FWD cars are really hard to pit, even harder then the AWD ones! :wink:

AWD best for off road, high cornering, high rev line launch but they die on the highways cause of drivetrain loss and such.

But like I said thats less true as every day goes by. The Bugati Veyron is capable of 253 MPH stock and its AWD....where the heck is the drivetrain loss? Skylines kill Hayabusas on a highway roll so again...wheres the parasitic loss?


Oi... we've had this discussion too... AWD really isn't happered on the top end.

Lets do a basic analogy... ok we've got a 240sx (RWD) with KA-T. And it's tuned to put down 250whp. And it's racing a... EVO VIII, which has a few goodies and has dyno'd at 250whp.

Alright, they both put down the same power... there for they go the same speed... what will kill the Evo (maybe) would be gearing... since it's a rally car at heart it's got naturally shorter gears. The 240sx, might be able to pull ahead due to taller gearing over all and win by a bit. Also, the EVO is a box... not the best aerodynamicly even though the make a big deal about it's sleakness. The 240sx, depending on the year is a bit more sleak, mainly due to it's 2 door coupe design.

Kinda make sense???


And the bit about the Veyron and the Skyline GT-R. They're AWD, yes, but they're not full time AWD. Their AWD systems activate when they sense a loss of power. So they're RWD 100% of the time except when extra traction is needed (launching, cornering.)

That's why the Veyron and the Skyline GT-R can go so fast on an open road.

man i need to have the knowledge you guys have. iv'e only been in the car game for a few years.

Right on Matt. your right about the gearing bit and the drivetrain bias, which explains what i was saying about engineering. the drivetrain dont matter as much as the sum of all its parts, cars are a harmony of many different parts.

Dosent the Mazdaspeed 6 have the opposite bias? its a FWD which kicks the rear diff in whenever it needs it.

Right on Matt. your right about the gearing bit and the drivetrain bias, which explains what i was saying about engineering. the drivetrain dont matter as much as the sum of all its parts, cars are a harmony of many different parts.

Dosent the Mazdaspeed 6 have the opposite bias? its a FWD which kicks the rear diff in whenever it needs it.


Maybe, I don't know if hte Mazdaspeed 6 is constant AWD or only when needed... I suspect it's full time. But that car, once the aftermarket catches up with it, will be a hot little sedan.

the mazda speed 6 runs on a system similar to the Haldex system found in the R32 golf and the Audi TT, so yes it is a FWD biased AWD system. only sends power to the back wheels when theres no traction

Articlez let me make this very clear to you. You are in clear violation of the user guidelines you have agreed to by signing up to this forum.


Your activity has been logged and you have been traced. Upon any further infringement of guidelines your full activity will be reported to your ISP: http://www.smiaccess.net/contact.php and to its Pier 1 provider: http://www.paetec.com/6/6_1_1__1.html.


You have posted a clearly insulting picture defiling the memory of a highly respected member of this community, and furthermore that picture is clearly of pornographic nature in a community containing numerous minors.

You are to cease any and all previously described activity.

Articlez let me make this very clear to you. You are in clear violation of the user guidelines you have agreed to by signing up to this forum.


Your activity has been logged and you have been traced. Upon any further infringement of guidelines your full activity will be reported to your ISP: http://www.smiaccess.net/contact.php and to its Pier 1 provider: http://www.paetec.com/6/6_1_1__1.html.


You have posted a clearly insulting picture defiling the memory of a highly respected member of this community, and furthermore that picture is clearly of pornographic nature in a community containing numerous minors.

You are to cease any and all previously described activity.

whoa what happend neutrino?

whoa what happend neutrino?


My post is bellow a deleted post, which trust me, you do not want to see. The warning was mean for the member who posted that.

the thing about fwd is that it, from a performance point of view, is not as good as rwd. when you accelerate the car "squats" so it shifts weight to the read wheels. this removes weight from the front wheels and you lose traction easier. that means you cant accelerate as quickly off the line or coming out of a corner. also, it means that the steering, the majority of the braking, and the aceleration are all done with the font wheels. that's mroe wear on them, which means more frequent pits, and lost time.

the reason that they are in cars is that it's easier to build, cheaper to build, and might be mroe efficient. that, from a road car point of view, is a great reason to build one.

I could make due with any drive train really. For the most part I like having my FWD. RWD can handle great but not on any stock car I've been in. My friends 02 Stang GT loses its back end so very easy. On the other hand if I'm accelerating around a corner the steering wheel wants to rip out of my hands. AWD, well I just love AWD and dont really have anything agianst it except the extra weight. For everyday use I'd rather have my FWD.

I could make due with any drive train really. For the most part I like having my FWD. RWD can handle great but not on any stock car I've been in. My friends 02 Stang GT loses its back end so very easy. On the other hand if I'm accelerating around a corner the steering wheel wants to rip out of my hands. AWD, well I just love AWD and dont really have anything agianst it except the extra weight. For everyday use I'd rather have my FWD.


Oversteer is a bit more welcome than understeer. At least with oversteer you can control the car with throttle and counter steering. Understeer, you scream like a girl and go AH!H!!!!! and hit shit.

True story.

.snip.
you have the best sig ever.






best arguement for rwd?

tail slides

oh and most rwd cars will get you bitches
see: bmw m3, mazda rx7, corvette, s2000, trans am, list goes on.
no girl is gonna be impressed by your spectra.

Wheel hop on FWD gets old real fast when you want to get moving quickly from a dead stop. At least with RWD if you get some hopping you can fix it with traction bars. That's my biggest complaint about a quick FWD car.

Oversteer is a bit more welcome than understeer. At least with oversteer you can control the car with throttle and counter steering. Understeer, you scream like a girl and go AH!H!!!!! and hit shit.

True story.

+1!!!!!! but i dont hit anything. fwd is better for my location since we get snow here. rwd is a bitch to control in snow. ive seen many mustangs stuck at lights since their rwd. idk how the lsd would work in snow, but im assuming that it helps. fwd is more of an econobox like mentioned earlier. ts cheaper, easier to maintain, and easier for the average driver to control. when you're rwd, u have to worry about wheel slipage, lost traction if u drive over water in a turn, many other factors that everycar has, but they multiply. fwd usually has more weight over the front wheels where are the drive wheels, which makes it better for traction in weathering conditions. unless u want to put sandbags in your trunk, i dont think rwd could get the same traction in weather.

in end. its really up to you. want to be able to hit the gas and turn with throttle w/o haveting to worrya bout much, get fwd, rwd is for those that are true car enthusiests that which to have more control of a car than others. awd is fwd with the rwd enguaged. it has the same problems as the fwd, but lessened. though some cars have awd when the car senses lost traction, then its another story.

edit : the only way to really get this done is take a civic that is fwd, get one the exact same and make it rwd, and one that is awd. then you could really find the truy difference

Oversteer is a bit more welcome than understeer. At least with oversteer you can control the car with throttle and counter steering. Understeer, you scream like a girl and go AH!H!!!!! and hit shit.

True story.

Very true story. I've driven my Maxima on icy roads numerous times and never felt like I was out of control or scared of crashing, but in a RWD car I've spun out on wet roads a couple times, one 180 and one 270, not that fun when your not tring to do them.

knowing how to controll a RWD car is the key to better performance. You cant list track times to compare handleing without using the same driver under the same conditions.

FWD has an obvious torque steer/ wheel hop problem under acceleration and the obvious lack of use of the weight transfer. That is strightline accelerations.

In the corners FWD's have a denancy to understeer, where RWD's have a tendancy to oversteer. Understeer in a RWD can be corrected by adding throttle, oversteer can be corrected by loosing throttle. FWD cars will only oversteer if you sacrafice rear wheel traction (ie, its better to set up your FWD to understeer than to oversteer for speed through the corners, this is assuming you cang get neutral handling). Understeer is not fun, the onlything yo ucan do is brake and turn harder.

Thoguh understeer is morecomfertable for beginner drivers ("gee, i can stop that, just go slower") once one gets used to a vehicle that tends to oversteer yo ucant stand to drive fast in a car that tends to understeer. I drive my truck and i can take corners faster and have more fun than i can with my GF's camry. Similar power to weight ratio's, mines manual, hers is automatic.

All in all you wont see a FWD GT car win champion races. NASCAR will never use FWD and neither will F1. you will never see a FWD performance car from Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Austin Martin, TVR, or any other supercar company. It's RWD and AWD.

And no, a stock civic will not beat even a basic boxter through the twisties....and boxter is porsche's ugly child.

fwd is better for my location since we get snow here. rwd is a bitch to control in snow.
Now i actually prefere rwd in the winter, it's more fun. my first near spin out experience was my first time driving my dads truck in the snow (mazda b3000) and long story short, i lost the back end going the speed limit around a turn, countersteered and drifted right beside an oncoming car. got out unscathed.

you have the best sig ever.
.

Thank you, it was one of those things...it came to me in a dream. :grinyes:

Could you size it down a tad?... seriously... it's quite big.

okay okay, I'll size it down! :dunno:

Could you size it down a tad?... seriously... it's quite big.


^word for word what musashi's sister said last night :grinyes:


RWD PWNZZ JOO!!!!

what is it with you and my sister? :lol:
You dont even know what she looks like! for all you know she could look like that picture CivRacer's sister on the sofa!

RWD owns joo? this comming from "curb boy"? you sir can eat my dust and Dokken sucks big ones! Good day to you!

In the corners FWD's have a denancy to understeer, where RWD's have a tendancy to oversteer. Understeer in a RWD can be corrected by adding throttle, oversteer can be corrected by loosing throttle. FWD cars will only oversteer if you sacrafice rear wheel traction (ie, its better to set up your FWD to understeer than to oversteer for speed through the corners, this is assuming you cang get neutral handling). Understeer is not fun, the onlything yo ucan do is brake and turn harder.



i disagree with this.

1st why would you set up your fwd to understeer, when that is the drivetrain's natural tendency? get a rear bar and have that tail get more happy.

and secondly, if you are understeering in a FF car, why would you turn and brake harder, that makes understeer worse. you should be loosening up on the steering if anything

what is it with you and my sister? :lol:
You dont even know what she looks like! for all you know she could look like that picture CivRacer's sister on the sofa!

RWD owns joo? this comming from "curb boy"? you sir can eat my dust and Dokken sucks big ones! Good day to you!


lol, every chance I get from now until you get here, I'll take it :D ...


Better watch what you say Mr. Brokeback Pontiac (Gotian told me about your double life), I've got you in check now ho!

Better watch what you say Mr. Brokeback Pontiac (Gotian told me about your double life), I've got you in check now ho!


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I can see it now...

Mushyman: Are you cold?
Gotian: yeah... a bit...
Mushyman: here... let me turn on the heater. *turns up heater, rests hand on Gotians knee*

Gotian: ...
Mushyman: oh, sorry... *moves hand to shifter*
Gotian: ...
Mushyman: ...

Gotian: Ever masturbate infront of another man?
Mushyman: ...
Gotian: ... Ok, well I'll go first.............

(^anybody ever see that episode of South Park?)

lmao, no but i'm gonna be lookin for it!!! :lol:

lmao, no but i'm gonna be lookin for it!!! :lol:

It's the episode where Stan and Kyle's parents are at Mr. Mackies house having a party, the dads go to the hot tub and get in all naked. They're all talking about how great it is to be men... then they stray and start talking about certain fantasies that they might of had about other guys.

They tip toe around the issue, and Kyles dad brings up the convo "Have you ever had thoughts about masturbating infront of another guy?"

Stan's dad was all... "what? no... no.... why?... have you??" sounding all intrigued. There's this long awkward pause.... then Kyles dad goes "Ok, I'll go first..." and they show him stand up infront of Stan's dad and all you see is his ass... and they cut to commercial.

It's a classic scene... first time I saw that I about lost it.

wow this thread went in the shitter real fast... lol

in all seriousness, if you want to see why RWD is better, play gran turismo and complete the cornering excercises in the liscense tests.

Yeah... I apologize.. sorry folks....

Oversteer is a bit more welcome than understeer. At least with oversteer you can control the car with throttle and counter steering. Understeer, you scream like a girl and go AH!H!!!!! and hit shit.

True story.

I have seen so many more accidents happen due to oversteer. There are a few kids with camaros or mustangs every year in my school that end up wrapping it around a pole or hitting another car due to losing their back end. I can't even think of one person I've heard losing it and crashing with understeer. In fact thats how the guy totaled my 97 ram. He lost the back end and hit a tree. And thats one of the reasons I now have a 3S. Yeah it can be controled by less throttle and countersteering but so many times I've seen it, its too late and countersteering and letting off the throttle isnt enough. In the end, its a lot easier to oversteer than to understeer to the point of a crash. My .02

that's of course, if you drive outside of your limits.

Anything can happen in any car... if you drive outside of your means.

well every day driving people dont usually understeer, only under hard driving. people crash with the oversteer because they do it on purpose and they are tools and dont know how to drive yet.

that's of course, if you drive outside of your limits.

Anything can happen in any car... if you drive outside of your means.

Yeah, thats all I was saying was that its easier to drive outside your limits on a RWD. But hey, it helps make you a better job. I would have to corner the piss out of my 3kgt to lose control. And Stang00, you're right. People often try and lose the rear end without enough time behind the wheel and up around a pole.

Wheel hop on FWD gets old real fast when you want to get moving quickly from a dead stop. At least with RWD if you get some hopping you can fix it with traction bars. That's my biggest complaint about a quick FWD car.

Which is easily fixed with stickier tires.

FWD has an obvious torque steer/ wheel hop problem under acceleration and the obvious lack of use of the weight transfer. That is strightline accelerations.

Torque steer can be solved with an LSD, wheel hop can be solved by getting stickier tires, and weight transfer can be solved many ways.

In the corners FWD's have a denancy to understeer, where RWD's have a tendancy to oversteer. Understeer in a RWD can be corrected by adding throttle, oversteer can be corrected by loosing throttle. FWD cars will only oversteer if you sacrafice rear wheel traction (ie, its better to set up your FWD to understeer than to oversteer for speed through the corners, this is assuming you cang get neutral handling). Understeer is not fun, the onlything yo ucan do is brake and turn harder.

Wrong!

The way a cars chassis is setup determines if it will understeer or oversteer. It has nothing to do with the car being FWD, RWD, or AWD. You can make any car understeer. It is called inertia. You're going fast in a straight line. When you turn the car still wants to go straight. That is where knowing how to drive and chassis setup comes in. Most cars are setup from the factory to understeer because it is easier to correct. Also, you do NOT correct understeer with harder braking and more turning. Harder braking will most likely result in snap oversteer and turning more just keeps the tires from getting traction. You control understeer by using the throttle and letting out some steering to allow the tires to get some traction back.

All in all you wont see a FWD GT car win champion races. NASCAR will never use FWD and neither will F1. you will never see a FWD performance car from Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Austin Martin, TVR, or any other supercar company. It's RWD and AWD.

Perhaps you should tell Alfa Romeo that. They have been beating RWD Porsches and BMWs over in Europe with their FWD cars for years.

And no, a stock civic will not beat even a basic boxter through the twisties....and boxter is porsche's ugly child.

I'm sorry, but you can make a Civic handle just as good or better than the stock Boxster.

did i not say STOCK civic.

im at work, ill come up with counter arguements in like 1hr when i get off and get home :)

did i not say STOCK civic.

im at work, ill come up with counter arguements in like 1hr when i get off and get home :)

Ah, my mistake. You'd have to be a moron to think a stock Civic could take a Boxster in the turns. :iceslolan

did i not say STOCK civic.

Actually, yes...yes you did. :screwy:

And no, a stock civic will not beat even a basic boxter through the twisties....and boxter is porsche's ugly child.

but there's no point in arguing that a fwd car is just as good as a rwd car in terms of handling and acceleration because they're not. yes you can get stickier rubber, but you can do that in a rwd car as well. the fact is, that when you accelerate, you take weight off the front wheels, bad in a front wheel drive car. also, he was saying the fwd has the tendency to understeer, in fact i know of no fwd car that oversteers by nature.

and you say that alfa romeo has been beating rwd cars and such for years. well that's not just the drivetrain. if you had identical cars, with identical weight, horsepower, torque, etc. but one was FF, one was FR, and one was FAWD, the front wheel drive car would lose every time given that all drivers were identical. the physics dictate that the fwd car cannot accelerate as well as the others. also, it would really show up in an endurance race because of the more frequent tire changes.

the only reason to make a fast fwd car is if you have one at the moment and cannot afford a better rwd car. there are no purpose built fwd race cars. the reason being that when you build a car to race, you want it to be as fast as possible. fwd is not as fast as possible.

aerodynamicly, ff cars are more difficult to get a low coefficient of drag. it's easiest with mid-engined cars. you wouldn't want to built a mid-engined front wheel drive car because it wouldn't ahve as much weight on the front wheels and would suck even more. so aerodynamicly front engined, and thus front wheel drive, cars are not as good as mid engined, either rwd or awd, cars.

^^i was basically going to say what he said.

sooo, yeah.

Im not saying there arent fast FWD cars. Im saying RWD is the better drivetrain platform. :)

but there's no point in arguing that a fwd car is just as good as a rwd car in terms of handling and acceleration because they're not. yes you can get stickier rubber, but you can do that in a rwd car as well. the fact is, that when you accelerate, you take weight off the front wheels, bad in a front wheel drive car. also, he was saying the fwd has the tendency to understeer, in fact i know of no fwd car that oversteers by nature.
I really hate repeating myself, but since people refuse to read. . .

I wasn't arguing that FWD is just as good as RWD. I was pointing out that his complaints with FWD were things that can easily be fixed. I was also correcting him since he is wrong about how to correct understeer. I would say that you can't say RWD or AWD is just as good as FWD either. They are different and I made that Alfa Romeo comment just to display that point.

Like I said if you are having problems with wheel hop then you need stickier tires, if you have problems with torque steer then you need an LSD, and if you have weight transfer problems you can solve that with a wheelie bar or removing the rear suspension. These are problems that are easily solved.

If you would read my post again, I was correcting the fact that FWD cars aren’t the only ones that have a tendency to oversteer. ALL cars regardless of drivetrain configuration understeer by NATURE. Like I said before, it is this shitty thing called inertia. An object will keep doing what it is already doing unless acted on by an outside force. By NATURE any object moving straight wants to keep going straight. Also, like I said before, most manufactures set up their cars, regardless of drivetrain configuration, to understeer because it is safer and they don't want to get sued! For example the WRX and the STi both will understeer stock. I've seen the GOD of all AWD cars, the Skyline GT-R, understeer. The same has happened to plenty of RWD cars.

Did I say I hate repeating myself?!?!?

and you say that alfa romeo has been beating rwd cars and such for years. well that's not just the drivetrain. if you had identical cars, with identical weight, horsepower, torque, etc. but one was FF, one was FR, and one was FAWD, the front wheel drive car would lose every time given that all drivers were identical. the physics dictate that the fwd car cannot accelerate as well as the others. also, it would really show up in an endurance race because of the more frequent tire changes.
Well, they have, and to bicker about this everything equal bullshit you have to be kidding me because in the real world you know that isn't possible. We live in the real world so maybe you should join us here because that is a pretty thin argument. I would say that it is a pretty fair comparison. Here are some links for you to chew on:

http://www.supercars.net/cars/21.html

http://www.carpages.co.uk/alfa_romeo/alfa_romeo_takes_2003_european_touring_car_title_2 2_10_03.asp

http://www.alfaromeo.com.au/default.asp?action=article&ID=17475

the only reason to make a fast fwd car is if you have one at the moment and cannot afford a better rwd car. there are no purpose built fwd race cars. the reason being that when you build a car to race, you want it to be as fast as possible. fwd is not as fast as possible.
My point is that it can be. You can't look at those links and tell me I'm wrong.

aerodynamicly, ff cars are more difficult to get a low coefficient of drag. it's easiest with mid-engined cars. you wouldn't want to built a mid-engined front wheel drive car because it wouldn't ahve as much weight on the front wheels and would suck even more. so aerodynamicly front engined, and thus front wheel drive, cars are not as good as mid engined, either rwd or awd, cars.
Being FWD has NOTHING to do with drag coefficient. That is just plain silly. Weight distribution yes, drag absolutely NOT.

To end this, you can't just say that FWD cars are worse than RWD or AWD cars in handling because there are some pretty shitty handling AWD and RWD cars. Handling is not just a derivative of drivetrain configuration but how the ENTIRE chassis is setup. The problem is that you people are generalizing.

^^i was basically going to say what he said.

sooo, yeah.

Im not saying there arent fast FWD cars. Im saying RWD is the better drivetrain platform. :)

And my point is that RWD isn't better, FWD isn't better, AWD isn't better, they are simply different. To say that a cars handling is all about the drivetrain is a farce. There are too many variables to say that. A cars handling is based on the chassis setup as a whole.

That is what I'm getting at and I think I've proved my point.

OK, let me throw some examples.

Honda: NSX and s2000, two fasest cars, MR and FR

Nissan/Infiniti: Skyline, G35, 204sx 300zx, AWD, RWD, RWD,RWD

Chevy: Courvett, Comaro, SSR RWD RWD RWD

Dodge: Viper, Charger RWD RWD

BMW: RWD

Ford/Mazda: Mustang, Miata, RX8 RX7 RWD RWD RWD RWD

Porsche: RWD/AWD

Mercedes Benz: RWD

Jaguar: RWD

Austin Martin: RWD/AWD

TVR: RWD/AWD

Lotus: RWD/AWD

Ferrari: RWD/AWD

Shelby: RWD

McClaren: RWD/AWD

Bugatti: AWD


Alfa Romero and Mini are the odd men out :)

Audi TT; FWD/AWD
3000GT; FWD/AWD


Just sayin' :p

Chevy: Courvett, Comaro, SSR RWD RWD RWD



Where did learn to spell Corvette and Camaro? :screwy:


And the SSR doesn't count. It's the stupidest vehicle ever... It doesn't have enough seating to be a decent car. It doesn't have enough load capacity to carry anything of worth... especially with the factory bed cover.

It's pointless, looks dumb... and costs way to much.

SSR = booooooo

The SSR is way over priced as you said and from what I heard it weighs an astonishing amount.

The SSR is way over priced as you said and from what I heard it weighs an astonishing amount.


Rosanne still weighs more.


True story.

I believe it.

Oh for crying out loud people. From the posts in this thread you would think that FWD killed you dogs and your grandmothers in the same day or something.


Fact is that, yes, under most circumstances FWD is inferior to RWD on paper. Mark those last two words "on paper". However, if races could be won with specs we would have F1 races right here on the forum and not on the racetrack.

You can argue that many things are inferior to others, in theory: Lets take Porsche for example, they stubbornly stuck to their rear engine, which on paper it’s clearly inferior to the mid engine layout, they use McPherson struts when double wishbones are clearly better - again on paper. And despite those disadvantages they created tremendous cars like the GT3, which can stay toe to toe performance-wise with cars such as the 360, which sport all of the above advantages.

So would it be so hard to take an example from those Porsche engineers and see the potential of a design that seems in theory disadvantageous? Or should we have sent Lance Armstrong back home - I mean how can he even dream to compete against younger fitter guys that did not have to go trough a life crippling disease?


And if you would like further evidence supporting my post please read again polygon's posts. He posts proof from the official top level motor racing world that in the same class a FWD can win against a RWD one.

So please focus for now more on your driving skills and choose whatever layout suits you best. Feel free to complain about the inferiority of your drive layout only when you surpassed those Alfa Romeo drivers that managed to beat the BMWs, inferior FWD layout and all.

this thread muuch be a joke!!!! FWD even not comparable with RWD!!

RWD is always Murder FWD!!

this thread muuch be a joke!!!! FWD even not comparable with RWD!!

RWD is always Murder FWD!!

not always. There is a vid on the net somehwere where a Honda Civic Hatch was following an Elise through a very curvy track waiting for the Elise to get out of the way. Granted in that video the elise was taking horrible lines, cars can be modified chassis can be made to perform. Polygon did mention Alfa Romero which does have some very well handling FWD cars. Mini (owned by BMW) has the Cooper S which is quite quick in the straights and even more impressive when you see what kind of lateral G's it can pull even without race tires.

The point of my aregument agians FWD is, in general, RWD is the better plat form of the two. Yes, there are lots of RWD cars that handle like boats. Some that handle like boats and also suck in the straight line.

this thread muuch be a joke!!!! FWD even not comparable with RWD!!

RWD is always Murder FWD!!

First of all I had to take what you said to Freetranslation.com (J/k) to understand it but once I did I realized you were wrong as most people here have pointed out.....RWD is not always better, sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. :)

this thread muuch be a joke!!!! FWD even not comparable with RWD!!

RWD is always Murder FWD!!

"Are you drunk?"



Jus messin wiff ya, tis all good, nice sig btw.

I never said that it's impossible for a FWD car to be as fast as a RWD car, i was simply stating that rwd cars have more potential. that's why i brought up the whole equal weight etc. and it's true that FWD cars cannot accelerate or corner as well as a rwd car.


and as for the drag coefficient, again, it's potential. front engine cars have to have the engine in the front that means you have to have a bigger front, mid engine cars are able to be more aerodynamic because they have the engine in the back so they can have a more streemlined car.

I in no way said that the cars handling is all about the drivetrain, i was just stating that it plays a role in handling. if it didn't play a big enough role, why done you see fwd formula 1 cars? because it just isn't as good. those cars are running at the cutting edge of technology, they want the best in their cars, that's why they chose rwd and not fwd. you can't argue that fwd is better because it's not. yes there are SOME fwd cars that are faster than rwd cars of similar specs but not many. and that is not BECAUSE they are fwd, it's because they are better in some other area. they might be lighter, have more power, have better suspensions, etc. they might also be tuned better.

and that argument about the modifications that can be done to correct the fwd cars. well you can do that to any car of any drivetrain configuration. can't get traction in a rwd car, get stickier tires, don't want understeer/oversteer, change the suspension configuration. yes you can improve your car but so can everyone else.

I also realise that all cars can understeer, but their tendency to understeer depends on alot of things such as power, traction, suspension, etc. not all rwd cars ave a tendency to understeer, if you look at all muscle cars, they have a huge tendency to oversteer, doesn't mean they cant understeer it just means that its easier for it to oversteer.

i think some of your response was based on lack of understanding, i might not have worded my post properly, ill try harder if you dont understand what im saying.

and as for the drag coefficient, again, it's potential. front engine cars have to have the engine in the front that means you have to have a bigger front, mid engine cars are able to be more aerodynamic because they have the engine in the back so they can have a more streemlined car.



Since we are talking about max potential would you mind listing all the production mid engine cars with a better CD than the .25 on the FWD Honda Insight.


point is FWD cars still have their place even in the performance arena. Lets take the BM Rotary Reborn video, you have the RX8 being demolished by several cars on a fairly challenging road course, among them a FWD integra. That integra (RSX here) also gets better gas mileage, its more spacious and cost about the same or even less, so without any practical drawbacks a FWD car can outtperform a RWD model.

I want to be one of the first to say RWD sucks in winter
That is all