Thanks, but you don't know what your talking about...

... or at least thats what I was told at the dealership, when I brought my Camaro in. I'm still having trouble with the security light and all... they tell me it's to do with the ignition, reading that my car "thinks that someone is trying to steal it" due to wires or whatever crossing eachother?! I told the service guy all the suggestions that I got from everyone here, but he said you don't know what your talking about... that his 20 years with gm compared to all you was nothing... :S Now... my stomach says to trust everyone here, the website I stumbled across last night, and not this guy... is that wierd?!

Anyone have anything that could help save me 500.00?!

...

is this a vats prob?

Edit: saw the other post, y not bypass it?

vats bypass EBAY!!

Midnyte, ANY dealer whether it's Ford, Gm or whatever will say and act the same way as you seen. Why would they bypass the Vats (if that's what you are talking about) when they can charge $200+ to replace the whole system. GM dealers only know how to fix GM vehicles the way they have been trained or read on their computers. They know nothing about aftermarket stuff or home made ways of bypass an alarm.

There all like that?! Whoa. so this is my first time dealing with a dealership! And I never want to do it again... unfortunatly, they have my baby.

Yes it is a VATS problem. Jim, our genius GM guy says that a bypass won't work because, "how can you bypass something if it doesn't work to begin with?! You could bypass it, but your car would only do as much as it does then as it does now" I think the $30 solution compaired to his discount deal at $415 is a little hard for his GM brain to process. But I'm not sure he knows what the problem is because, he goes from saying that it's caused by having too many keys on the key ring, to saying that this happens often in Alberta because it's dirtier there!! Then he says it's just wear... and then he says it happens all the time" (or maybe that makes sense!?) He's also 100% sure that replacing this all will fix everything... Of course, that key with the new chip that cost me $50--which they cannot refund even tho it doesn't work and most likely will not work with it once they replace everything, was 100% the solution too! ( *breathes* ...I'm a little stressed right now...)



Is this one of those "she's a female, she'll believe anything I say" things??



(I feel a bit better)

Well all i got to say about that is that your Mr Genius GM Mechanic doesn't know his rear from a hole in the ground, or he is just trying to jack you up for some unnecessary expenses. (he might have a note comming due on that new snap on tool set he just bought - j/k lol)
I have witnessed "in person" a VATS being bypassed with a small resistor wired into the circuit by none other than a certified GM Mechanic "At the dealership garage" and he said he has done several that way because the customer 1 wanted to save money ,2 wasn't concerned about altering original design , & 3 it is proven to work without fail so there are no comebacks on service work.

As for locating the problem--- I would bet my 5 cents that if you pull the ignition lock cylinder out and unplug the VATS wire from the harness and inspect it closely you will likely find that the 2 tiny white wires will have breaks in the insulation at or pretty close to where they attach to the lock cylinder. If this is the case there are only 2 options to fix it - either you replace the lock cylinder with a new one or you bypass entirely.
I think that to replace the lock cylinder it is approximately $85.00

I've had Vats problems on 2 different camaro's the first one i fixed with just flushing the cylinder out with WD 40 and drying it out with an aerosol can of compressed dry air.
The second car i chose to replace the lock cylinder eventhough i knew that the bypass would work fine and be cheaper. Reason being - that i am hard core to keep everything on my car exactly as factory original design.

The new key will still work fine either way because the computer has already been set to accept only a certain resistance value. (unless they screwed up and cut a key with the wrong chip in it to begin with)

dont ever deal with dealerships.. it seems like all there job is to do is find the most expensive way to fix your problem...i come here to this board for most of my help...id rather trust ppl that have been working on the same car and been researching the same car i have cause i guarantee more than half the ppl here know more about camaros/birds than that guy does..

I think that to replace the lock cylinder it is approximately $85.00



You mean the key tumbler? Someone replaced the tumbler on my Camaro and when I bought the car it didn't come with keys, so when I got the keys made, they didnt work. I went back to the dealer they quoted me $215 for a new tumbler plus they are going to have to cut another key at $30.

To hell with that. I went to the auto parts store and picked up a tumbler for $24. It didn't come with the chip though, just a dumby key... So I use the old tumbler with the key I had made at the Dealer (it just hangs from the dash for now), and the new tumbler to turn the ignition.

Bam dealer wanted $245, I fixed the problem for $24.

Eventually I am going to get around to hiding the old tumbler but I have bigger fish to fry right now.

yeah the part was $85 (i think - its been a while) and the key (1) was included plus another plain key cut with the correct pattern without a chip , but engraved with the resistance value for use to have other keys made later should the need arise . the labor wasn't that bad he just charged for 30 minutes $35

My old keys were still useable too... I compared them to the new one and figured out that the new key had deeper cuts than the old keys and i just had them re-cut to match the new ones cost a whole whopping $2.50 to have those done and they worked like a champ

Anyone have anything that could help save me 500.00?!

...

If you are as lazy as I am, you will go to http://ecklerscamaro.com/ and type 'security override' in the search box...
that will take you to the list of bypasses and you just pick the one for your key code #.
---I just checked and code #'s 1, 2, 6, 8, 12, and 14 are "Temporarily Out of Stock - Awaiting Shipment from Mfg."
otherwise you can make a bypass your self using the chip in your key(pop it out) or using a risister.
There ya go...

As stated the dealer is telling you that none of our suggestions will work so they can rape you of your money, cause they don't want you to be able to bypass the vats and have no more problems for the cost of a cheap ass resistor at radio shack versus them robbing you of 500 or whatever they plan to steal from you. I say at very least find a quality shop rather than a dealer and your best option/cheapest option is to do this http://shbox.com/1/vats_bypass.jpg

Just measure the resistance of the pellet in the key, go to radio shack and buy a resistor of the same value. Ulplug the two wire connection in the steering column(not the yellow one) used to connect the ign. switch to the VATS box. On the connector towards the floorboard, install the resistor across the two connectors. Tape it up real good and secure it under the dash. Now the car thinks the right key is being used all the time..

Lol, thats sounds like a awesome suggestion but where have I heard that from before :uhoh: .

JK, great minds think alike.

An almost happy ending?

Alright. I desperatly needed my baby back... and despite all the suggestions I was given, I, myself didnt exactly know how to about doing it on my own... so. I prepared myself to be ripped off. I called up Jim-the-GM-genius and gave him the go ahead. He promised he'd save me as much $$ as possible and have it fixed right away (ya... sure!). I get a call a few hours later and expected it to be him. Nope, it was a lady who worked there, whom I've talked to a few times, at my work. She recognized me, found out which car was mine, and made sure I got a good discount. She called to let me know that they will ask me why it was so cheap, and I need to give them her name. So great, I'm not looking at 500.00 anymore. (she also let me know that they hadn't even started on the car yet, but she made some story to up the priority!)

An hour later, phone rings, car's ready to go. I pay, meet Jim on my way to my car, he peaks at the invoice, gasps, and says, "see, I told you I'd save you all that I could!" When I get to the car, the lady that called me was there, I let her know that Jim took credit for her saving me the money... she wasnt too pleased! (oddly enough) I get into my car... but my old keys, (the ones I paid for earlier 'cuz they told me the chip was the problem) weren't in the car like they promised. So, there goes my argument w/parts... cuz I dont have the part to return!! I go back, Jim tells me they throw away excess keys to avoid confusion. I tell him he just threw away my property... and bam, he has them behind the desk! But then he informs me that his manager just told him the discount was for the keys that I previously paid for, but didn't need...

... to make an already too long story shorter, I talk to the girl again, and get my money for the key back next week.

Lesson learned: Your better off buying a brand-new car, then dealing with a dealership! :banghead:

Glad it wound up working out (sort of) alright. I have never taken my car into a GM dealer, I'm actually pretty sure they wouldn't be able to figure out if something was wrong with it since I don't have a computer wired up anymore...

My old keys were still useable too... I compared them to the new one and figured out that the new key had deeper cuts than the old keys and i just had them re-cut to match the new ones cost a whole whopping $2.50 to have those done and they worked like a champ

Unfortunatly the key with the chip was deeper than my dumby key. I work at a hardware store, I could have done it myself for free.

I just thought of a question. Is it possible to repin a key tumbler?



Lesson learned: Your better off buying a brand-new car, then dealing with a dealership!

How do you buy a new car without going to the dealership? lol

How do you buy a new car without going to the dealership? lol

lol!!
Hmmm... that is a problem isn't it? Guess I'll have to settle for stealing cars (honestly officer, the dealership made me do it!!) or... stop being so lazy and learn how to do it all myself!

or... stop being so lazy and learn how to do it all myself!

And this is how you save money in the end.. or you can just keep throwing money away.

well, it's not so much as being lazy... it's just the lack of a good teacher... or any teacher for that matter. I've tought myself to change my tires... oil & filter... altenator, fuel pump, fuel filter, brakes (I don't trust myself with that one tho :S)simple stuff but thats about all I know... The whole VATS thing was new to me... and so is almost everything else...

Hey, I didnt call you lazy you did.. so yeah, anyway im the same way.. I dont know how to do alot of stuff other than simple crap.. if I knew how to and had all the tools I need for the job i'd be able to do it..

lol. ya. I know I called me lazy. So what do you do when you need to fix something then?? Cuz anyone who says that shops don't treat you differently based on your sex, hasn't been thru what I have.

There all like that?! Whoa. so this is my first time dealing with a dealership! And I never want to do it again... unfortunatly, they have my baby.

Yes it is a VATS problem. Jim, our genius GM guy says that a bypass won't work because, "how can you bypass something if it doesn't work to begin with?! You could bypass it, but your car would only do as much as it does then as it does now" I think the $30 solution compaired to his discount deal at $415 is a little hard for his GM brain to process. But I'm not sure he knows what the problem is because, he goes from saying that it's caused by having too many keys on the key ring, to saying that this happens often in Alberta because it's dirtier there!! Then he says it's just wear... and then he says it happens all the time" (or maybe that makes sense!?) He's also 100% sure that replacing this all will fix everything... Of course, that key with the new chip that cost me $50--which they cannot refund even tho it doesn't work and most likely will not work with it once they replace everything, was 100% the solution too! ( *breathes* ...I'm a little stressed right now...)



Is this one of those "she's a female, she'll believe anything I say" things??



(I feel a bit better)

The "too many key thing" is correct but not for the VATS system. On newer cars with the Passlock systems, a heavy keychain really screws them up in a hurry. Not so with VATS. VATS usually fails from the tiny wires that go inside the cyl. lock fray and break apart.

You mean the key tumbler? Someone replaced the tumbler on my Camaro and when I bought the car it didn't come with keys, so when I got the keys made, they didnt work. I went back to the dealer they quoted me $215 for a new tumbler plus they are going to have to cut another key at $30.

To hell with that. I went to the auto parts store and picked up a tumbler for $24. It didn't come with the chip though, just a dumby key... So I use the old tumbler with the key I had made at the Dealer (it just hangs from the dash for now), and the new tumbler to turn the ignition.

Bam dealer wanted $245, I fixed the problem for $24.

Eventually I am going to get around to hiding the old tumbler but I have bigger fish to fry right now.

Remember guys GM mechanics are just that, mechanics. They aren't electronics techs, although GM would be smart to have at least one in each dealer that is!

The "too many key thing" is correct but not for the VATS system. On newer cars with the Passlock systems, a heavy keychain really screws them up in a hurry. Not so with VATS. VATS usually fails from the tiny wires that go inside the cyl. lock fray and break apart.

Thank you! I've heard of a heavy key chain causing problems, but with the 5 or so times I made him repeat everything to me (you'd be amazed how often the story changes...) I failed to understand what a heavy key chain and "wires crossing and telling your car it's being stolen" had in common. Same general area i suppose... but I wasn't shoving my keys in random cracks and holes... (?!? dont ususally do that anywhere...)

Either way, it's over with, and I still have the feeling that a new ignition cylinder was a bit extreme for two tiny wires. But then again maybe that's what you gotta do! Oh well.

Thank you! I've heard of a heavy key chain causing problems, but with the 5 or so times I made him repeat everything to me (you'd be amazed how often the story changes...) I failed to understand what a heavy key chain and "wires crossing and telling your car it's being stolen" had in common. Same general area i suppose... but I wasn't shoving my keys in random cracks and holes... (?!? dont ususally do that anywhere...)

Either way, it's over with, and I still have the feeling that a new ignition cylinder was a bit extreme for two tiny wires. But then again maybe that's what you gotta do! Oh well.
Here, take a look at this. http://www.fieros.de/en/articles/vats.html

They shouldn't be changing out the whole ignition switch but just the key cyl. itself. You'll see the tiny wires in the picture.

Hmm... Alright, I have another question. When I asked my "service representative" why I wouldnt be able to use my old keys that I just paid for once they were done, he told me it was because they would have a different code. So I assume he means different value then?? He said there's a tiny tiny chance that they might have the same code, in which case he'd save me another $60 for the keys... Now I was under the impression that there were only 15 values, but when I asked him, he said yes there are15 codes, but 15 variations within each one--meaning there would be like... 225 "codes". That article however (http://www.fieros.de/en/articles/vats.html), goes back to saying 15 values.
Which one is it?!

if i doesnt work it wont work after u bypass it....lmao, all the vats does is lock up the car so u cant "hotwire" it. nothing more..without the chip in the key for the mech to read when starting the car it wont do shit, thats why a copy key is only good for unlocking your doors. bypassing the system is keeping the system inactive all together so u wont be using it anymore so to hell if its working right or not it wont be working at all anymore