how to save GM

As most of us know, GM is slowly dieing. They are poorly run, mismanaged, and the UAW has them in a headlock. Here is a rough plan of what they need to do to get back on track.

Sub out half their factories to other companies for other production work.
Implement TPS in all factories.
Scrap saturn, buick, and GMC.
Double R&D budget, doing so by selling bonds and cutting budget from other areas.
Re-image saab, and introduce some cross-over SUVs under that name.
Move all GMC SUVs to the Chevy line up.
Drop all unsuccesful models.
And lastly, stop fcking with hummer.

I probably just upset 92.8% of you. Discuss.

GMC vehicles are mainly used commercially which is why you seldom see them on the road...and I like alot of the innovations they've come out with. Envoy XUV, however not for me is rather unique.
Saturn on the other hand I can totally agree with scrapping. However the initial IONs look pretty sweet and my mom owns one and hasn't had any problems yet. I'll be inheriting that car pretty soon but Saturn still should go. Anyone seen their SKY, its good for a laugh. Basically Americans shouldn't make cars. Leave it to Toyota, Honda and Nissan.

-Michael

I'd also like to add stop putting the same V8s into every car from the Corvette to Impala. Focus on making better (more efficient, higher quality, more reliable) cars instead of faster cars.

I'd also like to add stop putting the same V8s into every car from the Corvette to Impala. Focus on making better (more efficient, higher quality, more reliable) cars instead of faster cars.

haha... yeah they use that damn 5.3L and retune it for like what ... 5 different cars/trucks ? lol

i agree. new(er) or majorly updated engines for all the models would be nice. not that i'm going to buy any GM product soon

I've heard talk of Saturn being the way out for GM, since Saturns customer satisfaction ratings are on par with some very luxury based builders, like Lexus and BMW.

Anyway, if you want to read more about this small section of the problem:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2004/12/13/8214222/index.htm

That and the GMC line of commercial pickups and medium duty trucks is doing quite well from what I've seen. I drive for a truck lot that specializes in such things and there is always a demand for them.

I think that the government will also aid GM if they ever go bust. Not only does the US not give a damn about debt (because we're in the trillions as we know it), but if GM goes, then all the competition heads to Europe and Japan and they'll all be getting the business and America's economy will perish in the process.

I would also suggest building better cars and scrap all those trim levels they have....trying to give some "choice" and "customization" choices but they give too many. It's a PITA.

I agree Buick is expendable and you can't really cut anything else, but I like Buicks. I'm a small car kind of guy, but my dad has driven Buicks forever and I always love driving his cars. They're really nice inside and smooth as hell. He's never had any major maintenance issues either. I'd like to see Buick stay.

As most of us know, GM is slowly dieing. They are poorly run, mismanaged, and the UAW has them in a headlock. Here is a rough plan of what they need to do to get back on track.

Sub out half their factories to other companies for other production work.
Implement TPS in all factories.
Scrap saturn, buick, and GMC.
Double R&D budget, doing so by selling bonds and cutting budget from other areas.
Re-image saab, and introduce some cross-over SUVs under that name.
Move all GMC SUVs to the Chevy line up.
Drop all unsuccesful models.
And lastly, stop fcking with hummer.

I probably just upset 92.8% of you. Discuss.

yup, you upset me. why are we saving GM???

I don't think GM will die. They might be poorly run, and mismanaged, but they're still selling the cars.

I know that around here, for every Dodge truck on the road you see about 3 or 4 GMC/Chevy trucks. GM has more vans and suv's to choose from than Dodge or Ford, and you see more of them anyway. Ford doesn't even make minivans anymore as the Freestar was cancelled.

GM will be around for awhile. I just can't see them going away.

You know, since most of you guys know how to run a billion dollar business im still surprised that you're here in AF instead of getting a loan and start making some money for yourself.

Money never did anybody any good.

Anyone who thinks GM is going to die is a fool. And anyone who thinks Buick is expendable or should be removed from the GM lineup is an even bigger fool.

Working for a Buick, Pontiac, GMC and Saturn dealer(as far as GM goes) i can tell you these car lineups are going nowhere.

ok.

See, the sheep people...um, Aussies and kiwis do fine without it.

Anyone who thinks GM is going to die is a fool. And anyone who thinks Buick is expendable or should be removed from the GM lineup is an even bigger fool.

Working for a Buick, Pontiac, GMC and Saturn dealer(as far as GM goes) i can tell you these car lineups are going nowhere.

Also, why would they stop fucking with Hummer. Hummer's sales are incredible and the vehicles are awesome. Why bitch about their engines when Chrysler is using that damn Hemi in just about everything? Chevy uses their engines in most of all their cars simply becuase the engines they make are unbeatable, why should they redesign it?

stop building pieces of unreliable crap, and build quality cars but sell them for a lil more money. Give American cars a sense of quality, use nice interior materials, solid engine design, and reliability that rivals japanese automakers. They need to shift from being cheap cars compared to other cars in its class, to being a quality car, even if it'll cost a lil more. there, that's all they need to do

I don't think GM will die. They might be poorly run, and mismanaged, but they're still selling the cars.

I know that around here, for every Dodge truck on the road you see about 3 or 4 GMC/Chevy trucks. GM has more vans and suv's to choose from than Dodge or Ford, and you see more of them anyway. Ford doesn't even make minivans anymore as the Freestar was cancelled.

GM will be around for awhile. I just can't see them going away.

If things continue as they have, GM will be bankrupt possibly within the decade.

You know, since most of you guys know how to run a billion dollar business im still surprised that you're here in AF instead of getting a loan and start making some money for yourself.

I'll do that when I'm out of college.

Also, GM is more like a 60 billion dollar business.

I think Saturn needs to stay, because their owners are relatively happy with them. Happier than all other brands.

Saab needs to be redesigned to actually compete with other sport sedans. They need to drop the FWD.

Hummer, just kill those damn things that waste gas and kill innocent people. Yeah, I bet they're selling really well, with gas over $3/gallon :rolleyes:

Buick. I actually agree with Josh, that this needs to stay. The elderly population is getting bigger and bigger, and they need cars. Buick has already established a customer base with the elderly.

Let Saab make their own RWD sedan/stations, not based on an other GM model. That'll make the nordic market go rocket high. And they need a 2door Coupé/Conv.

Let Saab make their own RWD sedan/stations, not based on an other GM model. That'll make the nordic market go rocket high. And they need a 2door Coupé/Conv.

GM doesn't want to do that because they need to keep their struggling factories near capacity. They can't close any factories because if they do they will still have to pay the workers for something like 10 years anyways. Which is why they need to cut their losses and sub out the factories at just below cost to be competitive with IHM costs of other companies.

I was just looking at a brand new '06 Chevy, it was 47 thousand dollars. Just a normal 4x4 half ton, 4 door with a V8. These trucks are everywhere. I somehow don't think GM is in any sort of trouble. People are paying crazy money for these things...

I was just looking at a brand new '06 Chevy, it was 47 thousand dollars. Just a normal 4x4 half ton, 4 door with a V8. These trucks are everywhere. I somehow don't think GM is in any sort of trouble. People are paying crazy money for these things...

:shakehead

According to their income statement, last quarter GM recorded a $6,663,000,000 (yes, six BILLION dollars) loss. Yes, they lost 6.6 billion dollars in a 3 month period. In 2005 they lost a little over 10 billion dollars total, and at the end of 2005 GM was only worth 10 billion. Also, the reason Buick, Saturn and Pontiac need to be axed is not necesarrily because they don't have buyers, but because GM doesn't have the R&D budget to have good cars for all of its brands. As of now they can only have mediocre cars at best. If they axe 3 names, (which would probably cost them about 4 billion dollars to do so but its worth it in the long run) they will be able to support the development of quality cars for the brands that are still left.


No, they're not in any trouble at all.... :rolleyes:


See for yourself: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=GM

Gm how could you do this to me.......i trusted you....

waittt... was jus thinking i bet if gm went out of business my car value would sky rocket doooo itt!!! muhahahaha

Saturn needs to stay, but it needs to continue to become an American version of Opel/Vauxhall. The Sky and more importantly, the upcoming Aura look to be pretty good cars. Through Opel/Vauxhall, Saturn could help save GM.

I honestly don't understand the point of Buick. Does anyone actually buy the LaCrosse over the Camry or Accord? The Lucerne looks like it could have the potential to compete with the likes of the Toyota Avalon and Nissan Maxima, I havn't been in one yet, but if its like the LaCrosse it is destined for rental car fleets. When surfing the Buick website I thought it was a joke that the headline for the Lucerne was "Luxury Performance Handling Sedan." I'm not sure if its funnier that they claim that it is luxurious or that it can handle. 4-speed automatics on all of their models? Come on, the 6-speed automatic has become pretty standard and Lexus is about to release an 8-speed.

As Acura has shown, FWD can work for luxury cars (at least below $40,000). Saab needs to learn everything they can from the TSX and the TL and put that into their cars.

Cadillac has done great work with their exterior styling, now they need to figure out interiors. It seems that when you tell GM to make a luxury car, they just take a regular car and make it bigger. More space is good, but the quality of the leathers isn't up to par and the plastics are very low grade. It can't be that hard to make an interior that feels as good as Lexus or BMW. The STS is selling half as well as the Infiniti M35/M45, Lexus GS, and Benz E-Class, and about 1/4 as well as the BMW 5-series.

Other then just car quality, GM needs to fix its various business practices that are forcing it to hemorrage money. They are still the best selling company in the world, they just don't know how to manage their income.

I honestly don't understand the point of Buick. Does anyone actually buy the LaCrosse over the Camry or Accord? The Lucerne looks like it could have the potential to compete with the likes of the Toyota Avalon and Nissan Maxima, I havn't been in one yet, but if its like the LaCrosse it is destined for rental car fleets. When surfing the Buick website I thought it was a joke that the headline for the Lucerne was "Luxury Performance Handling Sedan." I'm not sure if its funnier that they claim that it is luxurious or that it can handle. 4-speed automatics on all of their models? Come on, the 6-speed automatic has become pretty standard and Lexus is about to release an 8-speed.


Around here the LaCrosse and the Lucerne are selling very well, we can barely keep any on our lots, especially Lucerne's we usually have those sold right off the transport. People need to give these two cars a chance, i would definately own one. I want either a White Lacrosse with the 17" chrome wheels, or a black Lucerne CXS...mmmm


Right now GM is going through a rebuilding period, much like a pro team when their players get old or a college team when their players graduate, they're gonna take a few hits, maybe a few bad seasons, but they're on their way back up it's just gonna take a while.

Right now GM is going through a rebuilding period, much like a pro team when their players get old or a college team when their players graduate, they're gonna take a few hits, maybe a few bad seasons, but they're on their way back up it's just gonna take a while.

They've been consistently losing market share since 1969 (20+ points of it) and as of last may they were down to 25.6%. A 37 year rebuilding period?:screwy:

You can't drop Saturn. It's one of the companies top selling marques. That would be a dumb move. Buick is a waste of space. Even gramps aren't buying them anymore.

The biggest thing is the whole employee pentions and health benefit packages they get. Some of these people do nothing but stand around and stamp iron all day and get $100k/year. That's bullshit.

yeah dodge needs to stop with the hemi, probaly going to put them in skittles soon too

wait now, if gm claims bankruptcy soon they will get out of debt sooner. i have read many articles on it when it starting getting noticed a while back (remember those?).

they need to diferenciate better. inside, out, and under hood. instead of just badge swapping (for instance that van that chevy, pontiac, saturn, AND buick are sharing) and i dont think that killing a car make will answer the problem (remember oldsmobile?). dont get me wrong ford does it too, and so did dodge.

instead what if gm started to promote internal competition. it will bring about more quality. and individualize themselves instead of being the same story different cover. and i think if every make had a manditory, muscle, sport compact, suv or truck, they will have a larger band of audience.

wait now, if gm claims bankruptcy soon they will get out of debt sooner. i have read many articles on it when it starting getting noticed a while back (remember those?).

they need to diferenciate better. inside, out, and under hood. instead of just badge swapping (for instance that van that chevy, pontiac, saturn, AND buick are sharing) and i dont think that killing a car make will answer the problem (remember oldsmobile?). dont get me wrong ford does it too, and so did dodge.

instead what if gm started to promote internal competition. it will bring about more quality. and individualize themselves instead of being the same story different cover. and i think if every make had a manditory, muscle, sport compact, suv or truck, they will have a larger band of audience.

They can't do that though, because again, they don't have the money to. They need to cut down on models to be able to do anything like that. Paradoxically though, if they cut down on models and stop with the badge swapping, it will bring their struggling factories, that they can't close because of agreements with the UAW, ever farther beneath capacity. Remember, each factory is used to manufacture similar cars on similar chassis, hence the badge swapping. GM, retardedly although necesarrily, bases engineering decisions for new models not on market research, as they should, but instead on which factories need a production boost. This is also why GM needs to sub out half the factories.

Ditch Buick, replace the entire Pontiac lineup with Holdens except for the G6 (Grand Prix = Commodore, Bonneville = Statesman, also bring in the Ute and market it as a Chevy El Camino), ditch Daewoo (Because they are too crap), stop bothering with weakass Hummers and pump some more money into improving Saturns and finally catching the Malibu and Cobalt up with the Japanese. Also drop the Cadillac XLR and focus on the 'Slade, SRX, CTS and STS, the last thing you need when you're almost broke is a $100k hero car.

Saab are on the right track, as are Vauxhall/Opel and so will Holden be once the VE Commodore comes out.

They are also morons to ditch Suzuki, given the fact the Swift was easily the best car released in 2005 $ for $.



Pretty much what needs to happen is a lot of platform sharing, like what Ford's doing.

They've been consistently losing market share since 1969 (20+ points of it) and as of last may they were down to 25.6%. A 37 year rebuilding period?:screwy:


GM thought they could get by with it, always expecting sales to rise. It took them a while but they've started to realise that if they dont make drastic changes they'll be in trouble. THEY ARE in a rebuilding period as we speak, i wasn't quoting what they've done in the past i was saying what they're trying to do now. Sales were higher the last two years than they've been in a long time. They've got a higher piece of the latin market than anyone, the closest competitor is toyota. The African American market is about the same as ford and toyota, and the female market is on the rise. As for the caucasion male, it's the only market that GM is not competing in right now, that should be changing soon as well.

i think saab is on the right track they have a distinct look separate from gm. ford does do its own badge swapping. i just want gm to at least make an effort in differenciating, and im not sure dropping buick is the right decision. with caddy revamping its look... you need a luxury dedicated source.

it makes me question if now is the time to bring back the camaro. i think if they fail on this... gm might not recover too well.

it makes me question if now is the time to bring back the camaro. i think if they fail on this... gm might not recover too well.

Thats what they're hoping, that people will buy the Camaro. Im sure if it falls GM will be in a deeper hole..

What changed in their favor since they dropped the Camaro in 2002?

Nothing that's in their favor. In fact things have gotten much worse. Gas prices are much higher, the sports car market is almost flooded with Japanese cars, and young men are more likely to get something Japanese. The only people who'll buy at are 40-65, and that's because their dad had one in the 60s, but those people will buy their car in the first 6 months, and then they will have nobody else to sell it to.

There are still parts of the country in which your car will get bashed up if it isn't a ford or GM, though, so who knows.

i have 2 things to say about the camaro on that note.
1 even with gas prices as high as they are, since dodge started advertising cylinder shut off, everyone has gotten on the boat, and now v8's get pretty good gas milage.

and 2, ive actually said this in another thread, chevy should have used a different car to "test the water" with when it comes to retro styling. the example i used then was the vega... and i know what some of you think about vega's. but there were some years that made it look like a mini camaro... like how the chevelle had the nova, charger had its little brother the challenger. they should make it rear drive (ironically i said this before i knew the solstice had the production ok) put in the cobalts ecotec, and put it out there as a rwd gas saver (slash roadster... because the origional vega was a gas saver) and if it did well, it opened the door for other vehicles such as the camaro. and if it failed they didnt blemish probibly chevy's most renowned namesake, and it fell onto the vega's shoulders. which already doesnt have a good rep. not to insult any vega fans, im a fan of them.

i have 2 things to say about the camaro on that note.
1 even with gas prices as high as they are, since dodge started advertising cylinder shut off, everyone has gotten on the boat, and now v8's get pretty good gas milage.

and 2, ive actually said this in another thread, chevy should have used a different car to "test the water" with when it comes to retro styling. the example i used then was the vega... and i know what some of you think about vega's. but there were some years that made it look like a mini camaro... like how the chevelle had the nova, charger had its little brother the challenger. they should make it rear drive (ironically i said this before i knew the solstice had the production ok) put in the cobalts ecotec, and put it out there as a rwd gas saver (slash roadster... because the origional vega was a gas saver) and if it did well, it opened the door for other vehicles such as the camaro. and if it failed they didnt blemish probibly chevy's most renowned namesake, and it fell onto the vega's shoulders. which already doesnt have a good rep. not to insult any vega fans, im a fan of them.

Why would they re-release an unpopular car??

Why would they re-release an unpopular car??
For the unpopular people I guess.

Double R&D budget, doing so by selling bonds and cutting budget from other areas.

I don't know how much GM spends on R&D per year. Let's say it's a lot.

There are covenants that protect existing lenders by prohibiting the issuer (GM) from taking certain actions, the first and foremost being raising additional debt. There will also be limits on debt to total capitalisation, interest cover requirements, etc... Even if you assume GM's capacity to repay is adequate to cover the level of interest payments on this massive amount of new debt (which is unlikely), i very much doubt the other requirements can be met.

Also, i dont know what GM's credit rating is but last i heard they were trying to raise it. I don't see the credit rating agencies being too happy with GM stretching themselves by issuing more bonds. Result? Downgrade. Meaning GM has to pay a higher level of interest on the bonds it would be issuing under your plan. Sorry my friend, that's not going to happen. Back to square 1.

Why would they re-release an unpopular car??


its not that it was unpopular, it was because of the tech problems they had. more or less they were fire bugs. they looked good, but again they were gas savers not lookers
http://www.cds4kids.com/drvin/east/images/cliff.jpg
but you could fit a small block into them. and they would fly. basically what im saying is would you rather tarnish a good name. or one that you wont lose credibility on if it fails?

its not that it was unpopular, it was because of the tech problems they had. more or less they were fire bugs. they looked good, but again they were gas savers not lookers
http://www.cds4kids.com/drvin/east/images/cliff.jpg
but you could fit a small block into them. and they would fly. basically what im saying is would you rather tarnish a good name. or one that you wont lose credibility on if it fails?

Speaking of small blocks, they need to do some updates to that 350 small block of theirs that they have been using for over 50 years.

RWD gas savers are a stupid idea, there's a reason everyone switched to FWD..... Just look at a BMW 1 series to see why.

EDIT: ^Yeah, while RWD are fun, they're not practical. Although the Miata makes sense and I don't know why. It's just so cute and small...

GM has stayed in the past way too long. The Import Scene hasn't begun to take over, it has and GM waited too long to jump on the bandwagon. SRT's, Cobalt's, etc were a fad but Eclipses, Nissans, and Hondas (notices how I single out Eclipses :p) will live on. Although this may die sooner or later, it has been an ongoing thing and only quickly escalated the ordeal. The amount of young people getting a car is only growing, especially with how money is being earned now of days. I love GM, they have good cars and have been there from the beginning (duh) but they fell behind appealing to only the old, rich, and people that love the sound of a gurgle instead of a hiss and the hiss is taking America by storm. 4 cyls get better gas mileage, even with the turbo and intakes, cause that still only puts some of this imports at less than 250hp especially minus the turbos then you got less than 200hp and you're like blue moon, twice a month fillin' her up.

Also, this goes for most places though, why the F%^$ can't I get a basic SUV or truck for under $20,000! No, not stripped but for the truck, i need the cab to carry more than my groceries. That's just craziness!

They need to start putting a solid front axle in their pickups again like the old days. They need to rerelease the Scottsdale because it is so manly, stop fucking with everything like the Hummer,Tahoe,Suburban, I love chevy but they just havent been the same....especially since they don't make them like they use to.

Anyone who thinks GM is going to die is a fool. And anyone who thinks Buick is expendable or should be removed from the GM lineup is an even bigger fool.

Working for a Buick, Pontiac, GMC and Saturn dealer(as far as GM goes) i can tell you these car lineups are going nowhere.


you know, i once heard the same thing about oldsmobile...

man i just wonder what's gonna happen when fuel prices peak out and 15mpg doesn't look so good anymore for gm's truck lineup

man i just wonder what's gonna happen when fuel prices peak out and 15mpg doesn't look so good anymore for gm's truck lineup

They need to release the Hummer H8 (http://www.hummerh8.com) already!!

They need to release the Hummer H8 (http://www.hummerh8.com) already!!

That thing is so lame..

Speaking of small blocks, they need to do some updates to that 350 small block of theirs that they have been using for over 50 years.

What, you mean like produce more horsepower and torque, be lighter, smaller and more compact (For instance, lighter AND more compact than the BMW M3's 3.2l I6), support a larger aftermarket and be significantly easier to mod, and get better way better gas mileage than v8s from any competitor. Yeah, scrap it :screwy:

....especially since they don't make them like they use to.

Which may be a good thing. If they still made cars with the ?curious? design aspects and quality control of my Z34 (timing belt design, coolant design, shitty-ass transmission design, rickety interior with the worst fit and finish i have ever seen... just to scratch the surface), then GM would have been long gone already.

BTW, i'm never getting another GM again.

well heres a good question. should chevy go back to basics, what worked, and was reliable. or should they tinker with forced induction, awd and in general "advanced modern tech".

on the small block touch, i think the 350 is timeless, and there are still many things chevy can do, i mean killing the 350 would be like ford dropping the 5.0 for the 4.6 ( which to many hard core ford fans is still ludacris). even though the 4.6 is pulling better power. but i think the return of the rwd is enevitable for certain vehicles. i just like it better because i work on these cars on a daily basis and i believe in general rwd is easier to work on. so im kind of bias. but between my zx2 and my cougar. i like the cougar better. i just feel like i have more control. granted this is my opinion

well heres a good question. should chevy go back to basics, what worked, and was reliable. or should they tinker with forced induction, awd and in general "advanced modern tech".

Well that's the problem. They have a terrible track record for "advanced modern tech". Pretty much the only things that are cheap and reliable are their trucks and SUV's. And even then not so much. If you want advanced technology, you go honda. If you want reliability, you go toyota (not to say that either of them is lacking in the other field). I really don't see why it would be so hard to design *cars* that are simple but elegant, and Use design aspects that don't break too often and when they do, generally aren't ridiculous to fix. Sure they won't be anything special, but if they could stick with simple designs and make cars that are reliable but CHEAP (i.e. cut underneath toyota's market) then they could bounce back. It would take a few years for the reliablilty to shine through, but once it caught on and they managed to hold it, then they'd be all set.

YOu figure, if toyota makes a baseline Corolla for lets say, $16k, then suppose if GM (ford chrysler) could make a car *just as good* for 13-14k... and same with the rest of the market, then it could work. But the most important part is that it would need to last much past its 3/36 with regular maintanence, nothing more.


Either way, i'm still never getting another GM :grinno:

I thought they killed the 350 in trucks back in about '98? Brought back the 327, the 5.3.

A Corvette motor?

Ya, saturns are still kinda popular, but i would want to get rid of the damn malibu, why is that still around?

that 5.3 is in no way related to the 327 of yesteryear... and besides... there are 61 cubic inches in a cubic liter... so... 5.3x61=323.3 so that's not quite a 327 anyhow. the 4.8L and 5.3L V8's that chevy offers are based off of some sort of modular design i believe... both engines sharing many components. the only engine left that resembles a 350 is the 6.0L V8 they offer in some of their trucks. i believe it shares the same block as a 350. and the 8.1L big-block V8 that they still make until the end of this year is based off of the good ole 454. while gm doesn't make a bad truck they should have stuck with the good ole 262 ci V6, (the 4.3L) because it was a 350 minus two cylinders, so it had smallblock valves, bearings, bore size, it was a really good engine... the 305 the 350, and the 454, while they didn't exactly meet the HP race of that era they sure were good engines and i'm sure some of you will agree

now this is all just my $.02 so don't go attacking me now... lol

Ya, saturns are still kinda popular, but i would want to get rid of the damn malibu, why is that still around?

Because its part of Chevy's economy car lineup.. along with the Cobalt.