AC recharge

Soo, summer is right round the corner and my AC needs a recharge. The pump cycles many times when engaged, and does not get cold. I have a R134 recharge kit that came with a pop on pressure gauge. Problem is, it doesn't fit any of the two AC ports on my '01 sable. The port out by the accessory belt with the black cap is too big, and the one up by the firewall on passenger side with green cap is too small?? Do I need something special to recharge the AC like a ford coupler or something? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks all!!

If it needs a recharge, it has a leak. If cooling is important you ought to get it serviced, lots of A/C service specials this time of year. Couple years ago I had my '02 hooked up to a shop recharge machine, takes the old refrigerant out, pulls down a vacuum and recharges it to the amount on the hood label. Great improvement and has worked well ever since.

I know Tauruses are notorious for having leaks in the AC system through the seals or bad o-rings. I just want to recharge myself with some R134a with leak stop in it. I hate taking my car anywhere that I no longer have direct control over who's monkeying with it, hence my shade-tree mechanic equipped garage. I read that on the older style cars, it was under a plastic shield at the base of the windshield that had to be removed. Has this carried over to the newer body style vehicles?

I know this is no help to answer your question but......
Hope you check it for leaks because I'm sure you know that whatever you do it will leak right out again if you have one. Similar to you, I don't like to turn my vehicle over to someone I don't know but don't think it's practical to buy the recharge machine for probably a one time use. When they did the recharge on mine I stood right there and watched.
I've never heard that Ford vehicles were "notorious" for any more A/C leaks than any other brand. If you don't evaculate and draw a vacuum in the system it won't be as efficient as if you did. R134a systems are not as efficient as the outlawed Freon, depending on where you live you might or might not need that extra efficiency.
It turned out that my A/C charge was OK, my problem was a stuck diverter door. The car had been sitting several months. A smart service tech exercised the hot-cold control back and forth a few times and it was fine.

Thanks for the replies, but really, I just want to know the location of the recharge port. I've got a pressure tester that I want to hook up and make sure its just a leak or low, and not something else before I take it anywhere to have it looked at by "professionals"

You know what the pressure readings should be? If you aren't satisfied with the answers here you might want to post @ www.batauto.com. Lots of tech's hang out there.

If you have one of those pressure gauges that come with a recharge kit, you are not going to accomplish anything. You need a set of A/C gauges to diagnose the problem. If you insist on using the little mechanic kit in a box, the low pressure port is close to the accumulator on your vehicle. There is no special adapter for Fords. All the 134 connections are the same as far as I know. The green cap you are talking about is your evap test port. However, I accept no responsibility for any damage or harm that comes to your vehicle or you.

If you have one of those pressure gauges that come with a recharge kit, you are not going to accomplish anything. You need a set of A/C gauges to diagnose the problem. If you insist on using the little mechanic kit in a box, the low pressure port is close to the accumulator on your vehicle. There is no special adapter for Fords. All the 134 connections are the same as far as I know. The green cap you are talking about is your evap test port. However, I accept no responsibility for any damage or harm that comes to your vehicle or you.


Green port too small, black port too big, these are the ONLY two AC ports visible under the hood. Has anyone here actually recharged their system themselves? I've got a can of 134a and a pressure tester, neither will fit the two visible ports on the car. So unless its hidden somewhere, then I need some sort of adapter. My tester has successfully recharged all of my previous cars, even those with leaks (that stopped after I recharged with the leak stop R134a canisters). I never take my cars to the shop, preferring to do all the maintenace and wrenching myself. I've just never owned a newer ford (my last experience was with a late 80s T-bird), so i'm not down with their engine layout. If anyone knows for sure where the port is, i'd like to know. Otherwise, when my service CD arrives in a few days, I will post back where it is so everyone knows for future reference. Thanks again.

Green port too small, black port too big, these are the ONLY two AC ports visible under the hood. Has anyone here actually recharged their system themselves? I've got a can of 134a and a pressure tester, neither will fit the two visible ports on the car. So unless its hidden somewhere, then I need some sort of adapter. My tester has successfully recharged all of my previous cars, even those with leaks (that stopped after I recharged with the leak stop R134a canisters). I never take my cars to the shop, preferring to do all the maintenace and wrenching myself. I've just never owned a newer ford (my last experience was with a late 80s T-bird), so i'm not down with their engine layout. If anyone knows for sure where the port is, i'd like to know. Otherwise, when my service CD arrives in a few days, I will post back where it is so everyone knows for future reference. Thanks again.

Did you find the service port? I have been looking on my 2001 sable as well. Driving me nuts that DIY'ers don't post much on the Internet, unless it has something to do with building a computer.

Thanks

Had a 97 and the fill port was up against the firewall passenger side. The recharge kit fitting was the right size.

Thanks, that helped confirm what I found. I filled it up but i think i only filled the hose to the a/c and not the a/c itself because it didn't seem to turn on when I had it turned to Max Cool. I assume this means something is wrong with the compressor but I was wondering if the a/c will not turn on because there is not enough coolant in the system and I don't see how it adds coolant when the a/c does not attempt to run and "suck" in the coolant.

I'm not sure how the system works but I wonder if i am stuck in a catch 22 or if something else is wrong with the system.

Is the pressure switch connected? Do you know if the A/C ever worked since you've owned it? If the pressure switch is not plugged in, the compressor won't run even if the system is full of R-134a refridgerant. Or, the pressure switch could be bad.

You really need to put a gauge on both the high and low side to see what both pressure are. Having that information will help you understand what the problem may be as well if the pressure switch is working.

-Rod

Is the pressure switch connected? Do you know if the A/C ever worked since you've owned it? If the pressure switch is not plugged in, the compressor won't run even if the system is full of R-134a refridgerant. Or, the pressure switch could be bad.

You really need to put a gauge on both the high and low side to see what both pressure are. Having that information will help you understand what the problem may be as well if the pressure switch is working.

-Rod

It worked up until last Fall. The compressor kept turning on and off until it finally stopped blowing cold air. How do you test the pressure switch?

Did you fill your system while it was running, because that is very important? I hope you are right that you needed refrigerant as overcharging it and running it is bad, worse is you put it in while not running. That would put liquid refrigerant straight to your compressor. Not good. Hopefully it will go to gas before you run it. Did you see the ac compressor turn on and off like it was trying to work BEFORE adding the refrigerant? Try running the defroster to see if the compressor comes on. To be clear, the compressor comes on when the clutch at the belt slaps on and the end of the compressor turns. If it does not turn, then you are looking at an electrical problem primarily. The compressor will come on irreregardless of the refrigerant as long as all of the electrical run circuits are completed when starting for the first time. If the pressure switches sense a no run condition like too high pressure after trying to run or run for awhile, it will disconnect the run circuit with the high pressure cutout switch. The compressor will cycle on and off according to the low cutoff and high cutin cycling pressures. Typical pressures are 45 psi on and 25 psi off and yes the on and off pressures are counterintuitive. This switch sensor is either next to the accumulator/drier or screwed into it and the low side fill/test port should be very close by. The high pressure switch is attached to the suction/high side pipe most likely close to the compressor and radiator. It would also be near and on the same line as the larger test port found in the front and above the compressor. Your system when properly charged should give you in the center air duct about 30 to 40 deg F air temp colder than the uncooled inside or outside air temp at Max AC. You can also check it be feeling the pipe to the accumulator. It should get very cold, swetting first and frost if cold enough. You NEVER want the frost going all the way to the compressor. That means it is overcharged or the low pressure switch isn't shutting off the compressor when it should. Compressors can't compress liquid refrigerant only gas.

Basically, you need a gauge to test the pressure switch. The clutch cycle switch opens(off) at low pressure and closes(on) at a high pressure. The cheap gauges that are part of a recharge kit could give you an idea if the switch is working by connecting it to your low side port by the accumulator and watch the pressure swing as the clutch cycles on and off. Roughly it would go between 25 and 45 psi, though I've seen lower. If you think it is not working at all, you can TEMPORARILY put a jumper wire across the two wires that connect to the pressure switch at the disconnected wire connector. I'm pretty sure you should also be able to test for power on one side of the switch and to the other side if it is closed. Power flows from there to the high pressure switch (that too you can wire jump to verify it not working) and finally to the clutch on the compressor itself and then ground. Wired in parallel with the compressor is a diode to ground not letting any current to ground, just to let you know that it is there. If it is an issue hopefully Rod can chime in, because I don't know why a diode is needed there.

Did you fill your system while it was running, because that is very important? I hope you are right that you needed refrigerant as overcharging it and running it is bad, worse is you put it in while not running. That would put liquid refrigerant straight to your compressor. Not good. Hopefully it will go to gas before you run it. Did you see the ac compressor turn on and off like it was trying to work BEFORE adding the refrigerant? Try running the defroster to see if the compressor comes on. To be clear, the compressor comes on when the clutch at the belt slaps on and the end of the compressor turns. If it does not turn, then you are looking at an electrical problem primarily. The compressor will come on irreregardless of the refrigerant as long as all of the electrical run circuits are completed when starting for the first time. If the pressure switches sense a no run condition like too high pressure after trying to run or run for awhile, it will disconnect the run circuit with the high pressure cutout switch. The compressor will cycle on and off according to the low cutoff and high cutin cycling pressures. Typical pressures are 45 psi on and 25 psi off and yes the on and off pressures are counterintuitive. This switch sensor is either next to the accumulator/drier or screwed into it and the low side fill/test port should be very close by. The high pressure switch is attached to the suction/high side pipe most likely close to the compressor and radiator. It would also be near and on the same line as the larger test port found in the front and above the compressor. Your system when properly charged should give you in the center air duct about 30 to 40 deg F air temp colder than the uncooled inside or outside air temp at Max AC. You can also check it be feeling the pipe to the accumulator. It should get very cold, swetting first and frost if cold enough. You NEVER want the frost going all the way to the compressor. That means it is overcharged or the low pressure switch isn't shutting off the compressor when it should. Compressors can't compress liquid refrigerant only gas.

I tried to charge the system while running the car at Max Cool. The compressor didn't seem to want to start, maybe it is electrical. I thought the compressor would not start unless there is enough coolant in the system?

The clutch to engage the compressor is electrical. The clutch will not engage unless the pressure switch (electric) senses a sufficient refridgerant charge. You could have an issue in the electrical or the mechanical of the system. I'm considering the pressures part of the mechanical system. Even though R-134a cans are not too expensive, you may end up ahead financially to have a professional troubleshoot the system.

When talking to them, you may want to not say "coolant" as that implies engine coolant/antifreeze rather than the R-134a refridgerant.

-Rod

The clutch to engage the compressor is electrical. The clutch will not engage unless the pressure switch (electric) senses a sufficient refridgerant charge. You could have an issue in the electrical or the mechanical of the system. I'm considering the pressures part of the mechanical system. Even though R-134a cans are not too expensive, you may end up ahead financially to have a professional troubleshoot the system.

When talking to them, you may want to not say "coolant" as that implies engine coolant/antifreeze rather than the R-134a refridgerant.

-Rod

I understand, thanks for the advice. My main goal was to get the car ready for trade in. Maybe they won't notice or maybe they won't take too much off for it.

Give that man another cigar!!! Rod is right, my bad. You do need a minimum amount of pressure in the system for the compressor cycling pressure switch to allow the compressor to work. I've always had enough minimal pressure in the system to start the compressor when recharging the system but wasn't enough to provide any cooling. Theoretically, once you've added enough refrigerant to the system, you will have enough pressure for the pressure switch to kick on the compressor. Usually it takes me one twelve ounce can (the standard small can) to get it fully recharged, so I'd think at some point while putting it in, your compressor should come on. I always do this with a gauge and experience as I have shared some of the things to look for, so if the compressor doesn't kick on soon when added the refrigerant, than you have electrical related issues. As before, you can jump some of the pressure switches or just replace them. There are electronic controllers too, but I'd start with the simple, cheap stuff first.

Give that man another cigar!!! Rod is right, my bad. You do need a minimum amount of pressure in the system for the compressor cycling pressure switch to allow the compressor to work. I've always had enough minimal pressure in the system to start the compressor when recharging the system but wasn't enough to provide any cooling. Theoretically, once you've added enough refrigerant to the system, you will have enough pressure for the pressure switch to kick on the compressor. Usually it takes me one twelve ounce can (the standard small can) to get it fully recharged, so I'd think at some point while putting it in, your compressor should come on. I always do this with a gauge and experience as I have shared some of the things to look for, so if the compressor doesn't kick on soon when added the refrigerant, than you have electrical related issues. As before, you can jump some of the pressure switches or just replace them. There are electronic controllers too, but I'd start with the simple, cheap stuff first.

How exactly do you jump the pressure switch? It seems like only the tube was filling up, not sure if it is really going where it should.

Well, the pressure switch is there for safety as well as to protect the expensive A/C system components. Jumpering it should only be done as a short term test. To jumper the switch to test its operation along with the operation of the compressor clutch, you would disconnect the electrical connector from the pressure switch and run a jumper wire between the two terminals of the switch. Your 2001 Sable may have a three position pressure switch though....

Yes, it does. A 4-wire switch actually. You'd want to jumper the red/yellow wire to the dark green/white wire.

-Rod

Well, the pressure switch is there for safety as well as to protect the expensive A/C system components. Jumpering it should only be done as a short term test. To jumper the switch to test its operation along with the operation of the compressor clutch, you would disconnect the electrical connector from the pressure switch and run a jumper wire between the two terminals of the switch. Your 2001 Sable may have a three position pressure switch though....

Yes, it does. A 4-wire switch actually. You'd want to jumper the red/yellow wire to the dark green/white wire.

-Rod

Is there any short term danger of jumping the pressure switch?

When you say jumper wire, could it just be a 12 gauge regular house copper wiring? Does any voltage actually pass through to be concerned about?

Not sure if that is too big of a wire, maybe 14 g, without seeing it for myself. There will only be 12 vdc and not much current, the more important compenent to consider. Yes, it will pull several amps, but I doubt the ac wiring is much more than 18 or 16 gauge. Just don't let it touch any metal so it would ground and burn up whatever, just don't expose too much wire for your jumper. Now Rod and I are stessing that you do this briefly to verify that everything else in your ac system is working. You may infact have a bad pressure switch, and taking it out of the electrical circuit (jumping over it) will help determine if it is the problem. Unfortunately, without a pressure measurement near it to verify that the pressure is high enough for it to activate and it's not, you can't be sure that there is anything wrong with it at all. I would think with a full can of refrigerant, there would be adequate pressure for it to activate, so if the system works with the wire jump, it may be a fair assumption that the pressure switch is bad. If it is working, and getting the ac system to run a little with the jumper, then reconnect the wiring back to the pressure switch and see if it works.

The pressure switch is used as a normal part of the A/C system and is instrumental in the compressor cycling as the system is in use. Just because the compressor clutch kicks in and runs when the switch is jumpered does not mean the switch is bad or the rest of the system is functioning properly, it basically will just tell you that the clutch works and the A/C compressor request circuit works.

The refrigerant is what carries the oil for the A/C compressor. If your system is low on charge for some other reason, if you jumper the switch, even for a day or two of use, the compressor won't be getting sufficient lubrication and will self-destruct, leaving you with a much bigger mess than you currently have.

The only reason to jumper the switch would be to verify the electrical signal to request the compressor is working and the clutch works. DO NOT LEAVE THE PRESSURE SWITCH BYPASSED FOR ANYTHING MORE THAN 5 SECOND TROUBLESHOOTING.

-Rod

The pressure switch is used as a normal part of the A/C system and is instrumental in the compressor cycling as the system is in use. Just because the compressor clutch kicks in and runs when the switch is jumpered does not mean the switch is bad or the rest of the system is functioning properly, it basically will just tell you that the clutch works and the A/C compressor request circuit works.

The refrigerant is what carries the oil for the A/C compressor. If your system is low on charge for some other reason, if you jumper the switch, even for a day or two of use, the compressor won't be getting sufficient lubrication and will self-destruct, leaving you with a much bigger mess than you currently have.

The only reason to jumper the switch would be to verify the electrical signal to request the compressor is working and the clutch works. DO NOT LEAVE THE PRESSURE SWITCH BYPASSED FOR ANYTHING MORE THAN 5 SECOND TROUBLESHOOTING.

-Rod

Thanks for all your help. At this point, after reading about the potential hazards, I think it's best I have a mechanic look at it or see what the dealer will give as a trade in as is considering this issue.

Thanks again for your help!

That would be a safe approach. You don't want to wind up with less than what you started. If it sounds too intimidating, you are smart to not risk things.:)