01 sel strange stalling episode 3

Previously, on strange stalling the sel would stall at a downward facing angle, then not crank at all, replacing the fuel pump relay fixed that.

Episode 2 brought us the stalling with slightly different symptoms, the angle of the car didn't matter this time, it would stall going uphill and downhill, but come right back on without any prompting from me and run fine.

Episode 3 begins with the sel not wanting to start on a flat surface after sitting for about an hour. Second try it started and ran fine, so I drove it home. Later that night I went out and it starts but won't stay running. I did not hear the fuel pump cycling on when I turned the key.

The first chance I've had to look at it is today a week later. Now, I have the symptoms I started with in Episode 1! The idiot lights come on, but the car won't crank. There are new twists to this symptom however. There are no power windows, no radio, no power door locks, no trunk release, no dome lights, and no flashers. Obviously there is still no fuel pump cycling either. But what does that matter the car won't turn over!

Behind door number three is the possessed '01 sel that's serving as yard art right now. Constructive suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

But Wait! There's more! I was reading old posts and I saw one about the pats key so I got out the spare key and went to try it. When I got in the car before I did anything I noticed that the blue indicator for the bright headlights was glowing dimly. When I turn on the headlights it goes off, when I turn on the brights it goes off, other than that it glows, no change in the rhythm of the theft light with the spare key. It still won't crank either.

The dimly glowing high beam indicator light would indicate to me that there is a faulty ground somewhere.

What is the battery voltage nominally and what is the battery voltage during cranking? If the voltage is below a certain threshhold (something like 10.2 V during cranking) the PCM will not function properly and could be part of your current issues.

-Rod

at this point there is no cranking...at all. But I agree it's sounding more and more like a ground issue, I'll be looking at everything this weekend, i'll post what I find, thanks.

ok, the accessory issues were apparently caused by a bad fuse. I replaced one of the 60 amp fuses in the power dist box and everything came back on, the glowing high beam indicator went off, etc. Still no cranking, and no fuel pump though. I'm planning on checking ground issues later today. thanks for the help.

Any idea what caused the fuse to blow? A 60 amp fuse if pretty large, must have blown for a reason.

Measure your battery voltage and make sure that it is up around 12.5 or higher, and also see what it does when you try to crank the engine over.

-Rod

I'm checking grounding contacts. No change in status so far. And no I don't know exactly what caued that fuse to blow, but I'll post when I know more. thanks

Definitely an electrical / grounding problem.

yes, you're right I'm sure now. Today I applied power directly to the fuel pump circuit and the pump powered up and pressurized the system, then I bridged the circuit for the starter and it cranked, (no start yet, but i had several relays out at that point) so since all my other problems the past couple of months have been confined to the power dist box I'm looking there later this weekend for any issue that may be present. I'll let you know. Thanks again. E

I forgot if it was here or somewhere else, but someone had their distribution box get soaked and they had similar problems.

From what I'm able to tell so far mine has not been soaked but steamed. There appears to be a radiator leak right under it. The steaming effect might have been the culprit all along. I'm replacing relays again this weekend along with the radiator.

okay, today I checked circuits with a test light. I don't have a meter yet. I don't seem to have any power to fuse 16 and 17 in the power dist box. I put the light on the circuit to 17 and it comes on dimly and goes out immediately, and 16 has no power at all. If I apply power to the circuit, it doesn't power up the fuel pump like I think it should. I'm not sure which way the power is going, meaning I'm not sure which is the hot sideof the circuit, but today I also discovered I have power to the radio but no sound. none of the fuses inside the car are bad, and I've replaced the relays, but it seems the power isn't getting to the relay, at least not enough power, cause I can power up the pump with direct power from the battery if I apply it directly to the circuit the relay plugs into. I haven't been able to get the radio sound though. I looked at the under side of the box and it looks like the power comes from the battery along a metal plate to those circuits. There are 8 fuses there and all of them seem to have power except these two. Is it possible that the power for these depends on a fusible link somewhere? At the moment the battery is flat so it's on the charger and I have to wait a while for that to finish charging.

Well,I'm getting a test meter for sure now. Last night I was tracing some wires back toward the firewall and I removed the air intake to see what I was looking at. The top of the transmission and half of the block are covered with chewed up acorns. This can't be good.

I've been posting on another forum and someone asked if I'd checked both keys for a possible malfunction in the PATS system. I've tried both keys and no change in the situation, but today I noticed the theft light blinks at its regular pace while I've got the key in the start position. I replaced the ignition switch and I'm wondering now if the anti-theft system could be the problem. Is there a way to check it and/or disable, and/or re-program it to see if the car starts? What if I set the anti-theft system off while working on the power dist box? Could there be a problem with the pats transciever? If so, where is it, and how hard is it to replace? Believe me I'm sorry this post keeps getting resurrected, but I need to solve this problem. Has anyone here ever re-flashed the pcm to fix such a problem and how did you do it?

I DID set off the anti theft system, I'm sure of it. I just read somewhere that the pats system has starter interrupt to thwart attempts to hotwire the ignition, which is exactly what I did. I hotwired the starter to check its operation and that must have been when the pats system engaged and now needs to be reset. Do I have to have a dealer do that? Please tell me no, even though I know you're going to tell me yes. Tell me no anyway so i don't have to panic over the thought of the bill.

I think you can rule out the PATS system in your case. From a previous post, you mentioned that the engine still cranks, but won't start. Per the service manual for a 1999 Taurus:

For normal anti-theft system proveout and vehicle enabling to occur, the THEFT indicator must prove out as follows:

-Normal operating proveout of theft indicator is three seconds ON then OFF after the ignition switch has been turned from OFF to RUN/START position. This vehicle should start.
-If normal three-second proveout occurs and engine cranks for more than one second after ignition switch is turned to START position but fails to start, the concern is not with the passive anti-theft system (PATS).

It sounds like if the engine cranks, the problem is not with the PATS system since the PATS also incorporates a starter disable relay.

Also per the service manual, the PCM and PATS modules get programmed together and will only work if both are present, so disabling the PATS module won't help matters. "When the PATS disables the vehicle, it will neither crank nor start. If the PATS module is removed from the vehicle, the engine will not crank."

Bottom line, if the engine cranks, you have fuel, you have spark, you have compression, and you have intake air, in the correct proportions with the proper timing, the engine will start and run.

-Rod

It's finally fixed! A friend came over to help today and when he got under the car he saw a wire that was hanging down, which was laying in such a way that I hadn't seen it. It went to the starter and was grounding against the block. Put it back on, put the fuel pump relay back in, replaced the blown 60 amp fuse and voila.

Thanks for all your help. Especially shorod and way2old!

Sometimes those electrical problems just need a fresh eye to find the smallest thing.

E

Congratulations, and thank you for following up.

-Rod