1987 Caprice
metalhead212
03-28-2006, 10:04 AM
Hey guys, first off gotta say, love the forum. Only signed up yesterday and have found a TON of very useful information. Only a couple things I could not find. I own an 87 caprice, and I am looking to do a full rebuild on it. Engine, transmission, exhaust, body..the works. My question is, where can I find some decent prices on kits for the engine and transmission?
silicon212
03-28-2006, 11:07 AM
Hey guys, first off gotta say, love the forum. Only signed up yesterday and have found a TON of very useful information. Only a couple things I could not find. I own an 87 caprice, and I am looking to do a full rebuild on it. Engine, transmission, exhaust, body..the works. My question is, where can I find some decent prices on kits for the engine and transmission?
Engine is a small block Chevy in all likelyhood - just make sure you get the kit with the one-piece rear seal and centerbolt valve covers.
The transmission is likely a TH200-4R and there are kits to be had for those as well, just look around the 'net. You'll find 'em!
As for your exhaust system, anything for a 1977-1993 single exhaust setup will work if you're going to junkyards etc.
Engine is a small block Chevy in all likelyhood - just make sure you get the kit with the one-piece rear seal and centerbolt valve covers.
The transmission is likely a TH200-4R and there are kits to be had for those as well, just look around the 'net. You'll find 'em!
As for your exhaust system, anything for a 1977-1993 single exhaust setup will work if you're going to junkyards etc.
metalhead212
03-28-2006, 11:24 AM
Would it be possible to adapt a dual exhaust to the "standard factory" set up. I don't want to go dumpster diving if I don't have to.
Engine is a small block Chevy in all likelyhood - just make sure you get the kit with the one-piece rear seal and centerbolt valve covers.
The transmission is likely a TH200-4R and there are kits to be had for those as well, just look around the 'net. You'll find 'em!
As for your exhaust system, anything for a 1977-1993 single exhaust setup will work if you're going to junkyards etc.
Engine is a small block Chevy in all likelyhood - just make sure you get the kit with the one-piece rear seal and centerbolt valve covers.
The transmission is likely a TH200-4R and there are kits to be had for those as well, just look around the 'net. You'll find 'em!
As for your exhaust system, anything for a 1977-1993 single exhaust setup will work if you're going to junkyards etc.
silicon212
03-28-2006, 02:52 PM
Legally, no, unless you adapted a '94-'96 LT1 exhaust onto it
Blue Bowtie
03-28-2006, 11:22 PM
Legally, no, unless you adapted a '94-'96 LT1 exhaust onto it
...Unless that Caprice happend to be an SEO / 9C1 model. Nearly ALL of those were dual exhaust, and 50-state emissions legal. And yes, there WERE 305-equipped 9C1 cars, and many municipal police departments bought them up in droves for the improved fuel mileage.
As for the transmission, it is more likely a TH700-R4 with the secondary valve body and improved (10-vane pump instead of 7), higher shaft spline count, and of course a lockup converter. It is worth rebuilding so long as you replace the reaction sun shell with an improved design (like the TCI/Beast shell). I've had good luck here: http://www.bulkpart.com/ but you can find kits and parts anywhere.
Further, the engine should be a roller-cammed design, and one-piece rear main as Si suggested. You may not have a lot of cam or lifter wear. However, the rest of the valve train is junk, from the self-aligning stamped rubber rockers and pull-out studs to the 85# valve springs and exhaust valve rotators that do no good even if they work (but do add unnecessary mass). Chances are it has dished pistons, too. If you want to improve mileage and performance, try to find some '083 head castings from an '87-up SBC, freshen them up, and turn your's into door stops when you undertake the rebuild. You can find SBC rebiuld kits and parts in literally thousands of places. FWIW, even though FelPro is king in aftermarket gasket sets, I've noticed they don't quite mimick the factory set and parts, especially in the heads gaskets (highly important). They work, but they aren't always quite to factory specs and designs. Moreover, the last engine I rebuilt (LT1) would have cost $110 more if I used the FelPro set instead of the GM factory overhaul set - Even at net prices.
...Unless that Caprice happend to be an SEO / 9C1 model. Nearly ALL of those were dual exhaust, and 50-state emissions legal. And yes, there WERE 305-equipped 9C1 cars, and many municipal police departments bought them up in droves for the improved fuel mileage.
As for the transmission, it is more likely a TH700-R4 with the secondary valve body and improved (10-vane pump instead of 7), higher shaft spline count, and of course a lockup converter. It is worth rebuilding so long as you replace the reaction sun shell with an improved design (like the TCI/Beast shell). I've had good luck here: http://www.bulkpart.com/ but you can find kits and parts anywhere.
Further, the engine should be a roller-cammed design, and one-piece rear main as Si suggested. You may not have a lot of cam or lifter wear. However, the rest of the valve train is junk, from the self-aligning stamped rubber rockers and pull-out studs to the 85# valve springs and exhaust valve rotators that do no good even if they work (but do add unnecessary mass). Chances are it has dished pistons, too. If you want to improve mileage and performance, try to find some '083 head castings from an '87-up SBC, freshen them up, and turn your's into door stops when you undertake the rebuild. You can find SBC rebiuld kits and parts in literally thousands of places. FWIW, even though FelPro is king in aftermarket gasket sets, I've noticed they don't quite mimick the factory set and parts, especially in the heads gaskets (highly important). They work, but they aren't always quite to factory specs and designs. Moreover, the last engine I rebuilt (LT1) would have cost $110 more if I used the FelPro set instead of the GM factory overhaul set - Even at net prices.
silicon212
03-28-2006, 11:49 PM
...Unless that Caprice happend to be an SEO / 9C1 model. Nearly ALL of those were dual exhaust, and 50-state emissions legal. And yes, there WERE 305-equipped 9C1 cars, and many municipal police departments bought them up in droves for the improved fuel mileage.
As for the transmission, it is more likely a TH700-R4 with the secondary valve body and improved (10-vane pump instead of 7), higher shaft spline count, and of course a lockup converter. It is worth rebuilding so long as you replace the reaction sun shell with an improved design (like the TCI/Beast shell). I've had good luck here: http://www.bulkpart.com/ but you can find kits and parts anywhere.
Further, the engine should be a roller-cammed design, and one-piece rear main as Si suggested. You may not have a lot of cam or lifter wear. However, the rest of the valve train is junk, from the self-aligning stamped rubber rockers and pull-out studs to the 85# valve springs and exhaust valve rotators that do no good even if they work (but do add unnecessary mass). Chances are it has dished pistons, too. If you want to improve mileage and performance, try to find some '083 head castings from an '87-up SBC, freshen them up, and turn your's into door stops when you undertake the rebuild. You can find SBC rebiuld kits and parts in literally thousands of places. FWIW, even though FelPro is king in aftermarket gasket sets, I've noticed they don't quite mimick the factory set and parts, especially in the heads gaskets (highly important). They work, but they aren't always quite to factory specs and designs. Moreover, the last engine I rebuilt (LT1) would have cost $110 more if I used the FelPro set instead of the GM factory overhaul set - Even at net prices.
#1 - No 9C1 came with dual exhaust between 1977 and 1994 - the years before the LT1. While you're right, there were a lot of 305 powered 9C1s, and even V6-powered ones (NYPD used 305 engines exclusively when they were in production), none came stock with duals, not even the 5.7 350s (which mine is). They do, however, have larger diameter pipes in the single exhaust than the civvy car.
#2 - the TH2004R was stock on 305s, 9C1 included. While some may have been available with 700R4s in 1987 (some Brougham LS models), the vast majority of 5.0 cars came with TH2004Rs. As for the vanes in the trans front pump, all got 10-vane pumps beginning around 1985-1986 (including the 2004R). Some later 4L60s and 4L60Es have 13-vane pumps.
#3 - FelPro gaskets are great - head gaskets (composition style) do displace more CCs than factory (steel shim) gaskets do due to their thickness. This can be offset by milling the heads or decking the block.
#4 - Stamped rubber rockers?
As for the transmission, it is more likely a TH700-R4 with the secondary valve body and improved (10-vane pump instead of 7), higher shaft spline count, and of course a lockup converter. It is worth rebuilding so long as you replace the reaction sun shell with an improved design (like the TCI/Beast shell). I've had good luck here: http://www.bulkpart.com/ but you can find kits and parts anywhere.
Further, the engine should be a roller-cammed design, and one-piece rear main as Si suggested. You may not have a lot of cam or lifter wear. However, the rest of the valve train is junk, from the self-aligning stamped rubber rockers and pull-out studs to the 85# valve springs and exhaust valve rotators that do no good even if they work (but do add unnecessary mass). Chances are it has dished pistons, too. If you want to improve mileage and performance, try to find some '083 head castings from an '87-up SBC, freshen them up, and turn your's into door stops when you undertake the rebuild. You can find SBC rebiuld kits and parts in literally thousands of places. FWIW, even though FelPro is king in aftermarket gasket sets, I've noticed they don't quite mimick the factory set and parts, especially in the heads gaskets (highly important). They work, but they aren't always quite to factory specs and designs. Moreover, the last engine I rebuilt (LT1) would have cost $110 more if I used the FelPro set instead of the GM factory overhaul set - Even at net prices.
#1 - No 9C1 came with dual exhaust between 1977 and 1994 - the years before the LT1. While you're right, there were a lot of 305 powered 9C1s, and even V6-powered ones (NYPD used 305 engines exclusively when they were in production), none came stock with duals, not even the 5.7 350s (which mine is). They do, however, have larger diameter pipes in the single exhaust than the civvy car.
#2 - the TH2004R was stock on 305s, 9C1 included. While some may have been available with 700R4s in 1987 (some Brougham LS models), the vast majority of 5.0 cars came with TH2004Rs. As for the vanes in the trans front pump, all got 10-vane pumps beginning around 1985-1986 (including the 2004R). Some later 4L60s and 4L60Es have 13-vane pumps.
#3 - FelPro gaskets are great - head gaskets (composition style) do displace more CCs than factory (steel shim) gaskets do due to their thickness. This can be offset by milling the heads or decking the block.
#4 - Stamped rubber rockers?
metalhead212
03-29-2006, 09:53 AM
You guys seem to know what your talking about, how much to fly you to indiana and do this for me? :):):)
Blue Bowtie
03-29-2006, 12:42 PM
"Stamped Rubber Rockers?"
You know, the factory supplied (self-aligning, in this case) rockers that may or may not be close to the 1.5:1 specified ratio, flex as much as they open the valves, and may or may not have adequate bearing strength when used with valve springs that actually keep the rollers on the lobes at respectable RPMs. They're almost as bad as aluminum rockers (Read: The only decent rockers are Comp or Crower forged CrMo units).
They are a nice safety feature, however. They help the weak factory valve springs to act as a governor, since the system allows float at about 5K and therefore effectively throttles back the engine.
AS I recall. MY '85 Caprice (granted, it was a wagon) had a TH700R4. You're probably right about the duals, and the examples I've seen may have been retrofit. I don't see a lot of stock applications. A couple of aftermarket three-way cats and some plumbing later, and you'll still pass the sniffer. Whether or not you're in compliance depends on how strict the visual might be, and whether the inspection is looking for hardware, or simply gas monitor results. Being near 20 years old, I'd think if the 1987 emissions limits were met, they wouldn't care much about the equipment, but many regions are more strict on visuals.
You know, the factory supplied (self-aligning, in this case) rockers that may or may not be close to the 1.5:1 specified ratio, flex as much as they open the valves, and may or may not have adequate bearing strength when used with valve springs that actually keep the rollers on the lobes at respectable RPMs. They're almost as bad as aluminum rockers (Read: The only decent rockers are Comp or Crower forged CrMo units).
They are a nice safety feature, however. They help the weak factory valve springs to act as a governor, since the system allows float at about 5K and therefore effectively throttles back the engine.
AS I recall. MY '85 Caprice (granted, it was a wagon) had a TH700R4. You're probably right about the duals, and the examples I've seen may have been retrofit. I don't see a lot of stock applications. A couple of aftermarket three-way cats and some plumbing later, and you'll still pass the sniffer. Whether or not you're in compliance depends on how strict the visual might be, and whether the inspection is looking for hardware, or simply gas monitor results. Being near 20 years old, I'd think if the 1987 emissions limits were met, they wouldn't care much about the equipment, but many regions are more strict on visuals.
metalhead212
03-29-2006, 01:24 PM
"Stamped Rubber Rockers?"
You know, the factory supplied (self-aligning, in this case) rockers that may or may not be close to the 1.5:1 specified ratio, flex as much as they open the valves, and may or may not have adequate bearing strength when used with valve springs that actually keep the rollers on the lobes at respectable RPMs. They're almost as bad as aluminum rockers (Read: The only decent rockers are Comp or Crower forged CrMo units).
They are a nice safety feature, however. They help the weak factory valve springs to act as a governor, since the system allows float at about 5K and therefore effectively throttles back the engine.
AS I recall. MY '85 Caprice (granted, it was a wagon) had a TH700R4. You're probably right about the duals, and the examples I've seen may have been retrofit. I don't see a lot of stock applications. A couple of aftermarket three-way cats and some plumbing later, and you'll still pass the sniffer. Whether or not you're in compliance depends on how strict the visual might be, and whether the inspection is looking for hardware, or simply gas monitor results. Being near 20 years old, I'd think if the 1987 emissions limits were met, they wouldn't care much about the equipment, but many regions are more strict on visuals.
Where I live they don't do emission testing, so really I am not to worried about that.
You know, the factory supplied (self-aligning, in this case) rockers that may or may not be close to the 1.5:1 specified ratio, flex as much as they open the valves, and may or may not have adequate bearing strength when used with valve springs that actually keep the rollers on the lobes at respectable RPMs. They're almost as bad as aluminum rockers (Read: The only decent rockers are Comp or Crower forged CrMo units).
They are a nice safety feature, however. They help the weak factory valve springs to act as a governor, since the system allows float at about 5K and therefore effectively throttles back the engine.
AS I recall. MY '85 Caprice (granted, it was a wagon) had a TH700R4. You're probably right about the duals, and the examples I've seen may have been retrofit. I don't see a lot of stock applications. A couple of aftermarket three-way cats and some plumbing later, and you'll still pass the sniffer. Whether or not you're in compliance depends on how strict the visual might be, and whether the inspection is looking for hardware, or simply gas monitor results. Being near 20 years old, I'd think if the 1987 emissions limits were met, they wouldn't care much about the equipment, but many regions are more strict on visuals.
Where I live they don't do emission testing, so really I am not to worried about that.
silicon212
03-29-2006, 02:43 PM
The TH700R4 was used on Caprice through the 1985 model year, and again starting in 1993. It was replaced with the TH2004R in 1986.
I agree with you on rocker flex, which is why mine has the COMP Magnum chromemoly rollers.
I agree with you on rocker flex, which is why mine has the COMP Magnum chromemoly rollers.
Blue Bowtie
03-29-2006, 05:01 PM
Good info on the trans. I always thought the 200R was completely dropped about that time. I guess I was lucky. My '86 TA had the improved 700R, and I had an '88 Astro that had the 700R. I never was too fond of the 200R.
Good call on the rockers. I'm running 1317s on one of the LT1s.
Good call on the rockers. I'm running 1317s on one of the LT1s.
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