McLaren F1 (CLK) GTR?

Anyone have anymore pictures of this car?

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/9302/60c78787cc3kj.th.jpg (http://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=60c78787cc3kj.jpg)

That's 07R and was used as a test mule for the CLK-GTR development project.

One more pic: http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/9748/07rk6cd.jpg

So its a Short-Tail with a long body?
Any more info about this car?
and does anyone know about a crash while testing???

Thanks very much for the picture :)

AMG bought it to build a McLaren beater:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=163346&page=3

http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic103367.htm

thanks amanichen, I hadnt seen that thread before! I found the picture along with these:

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/9446/73redlinetrackstand8da.th.jpg (http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=73redlinetrackstand8da.jpg) http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/2395/redline1mn.th.jpg (http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=redline1mn.jpg) http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/8503/m661mo.th.jpg (http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m661mo.jpg) http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1235/r667pu.th.jpg (http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=r667pu.jpg)

If you guys have seen that CLK F1 picture, then youve probably seen these too!!!

That thread was an interesting read, but still not many pictures of 07 with the kit on it.

Thanks anyway! :sunglasse

That thread was an interesting read, but still not many pictures of 07 with the kit on it.Unfortunately, the paddock photo and the crash photo are the only ones I've seen come up on here. Other people might have more pictures somewhere, seeing as the crash one looks like a scan from a magazine.

Here's the only other image I have seen of it. My German is quite rusty, but someone else here can probably do a rough translation for us.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20B/621714d.jpg

The thing I find surprising is that this article (as I recall) suggests that #07R was actually fitted with the AMG engine, so this wasn't just for aerodynamics testing which they obviously could have done in a wind tunnel without hacking up an F1.

>8^)
ER

Sorry guys ,but that is not 07R. Its a 96 GTR, I remember reading in Autosport way back, that Mercedes acquired the Deletraz/Giriox chassis making it 11R. Besides there is to many 96 spec components,to not make this a 95 GTR.

I shall look through my files for more info tonight.

(sorry to keep on correcting you guys, on GTR chassis #,s. You must be getting a bit cheesed off with me by now)

Here's the only other image I have seen of it. My German is quite rusty, but someone else here can probably do a rough translation for us...


nice that you still have the pic....:wink:

it doesn't say very much about McLaren, just that BMW wasn't happy that Mercedes first developed a race car (CLK-GTR) and then made the road going version of it.....then there is a part in it in which they wrote about the Jarama-test, where Mercedes used a McLaren F1 GTR to test the 6 litre engine and that this test-mule set a new record for GT cars in Jarama after having problems with the front intercoolers...
they wrote, that a BMW marketing person was shocked because Mercedes used a McLaren chassis and said that BMW would have never used a Mercedes chassis to test engines in....

hope this helps...

^_^

Article from Autosport mag,

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6805/p32900649hl.th.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p32900649hl.jpg)

I know in DA, That it says this car is 07R. But study pics of 07R and 11R and you will see that the McMerc test car is 11R. Or better still, someone provide some pictorial proof to prove me wrong. Thankyou.

Article from Autosport mag,

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6805/p32900649hl.th.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p32900649hl.jpg)

I know in DA, That it says this car is 07R. But study pics of 07R and 11R and you will see that the McMerc test car is 11R. Or better still, someone provide some pictorial proof to prove me wrong. Thankyou.Exactly what features should we look for to distinguish the two cars from one another?

Study the two pics, Look carefully at 11R,s luggage door, door duct and front bonnet. No 95 car has ever had these fitted, The only chassis,s I know that have had these fitted are 10R,11R and 16R. The luggage door and door duct were part of the 96 LeMans aero package. Also which is not to clear on the front shot of the McMerc, is the wiper motor pivot position. It is on the cars centre line on all the 96 GTR,s.

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/7325/07r2gs.th.png (http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=07r2gs.png) http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/3245/11r2ui.th.jpg (http://img479.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11r2ui.jpg)
07R...........................11R

That young lad mini magic, was on the right track in the old threads!!

I know in DA, That it says this car is 07R.


Page 227, 'AMG meanwhile bought the '95 model and were to use it as a test bed for their forthcoming V12-engined endurance challenger'

Seeing as DA was 'the official inside story of the mclaren f1' and was written by Doug Nye with Ron Dennis and Gordon Murray, i find it hard to refute that this wasn't a '95 model.

Or better still, someone provide some pictorial proof to prove me wrong. Thankyou

you are welcome

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/2803/drivingambition0pq.th.jpg (http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=drivingambition0pq.jpg)

You can't compare a photo of the left side vent on #07R with the right side vent on #11R. All the short tailed GTRs have a small vent in the left side luggage door and a larger vent (identical to the one in the #11R photo) in the right side luggage door. Here is a shot of the opposite side of #07R showing the larger vent which feeds air to the oil cooler.

http://a6.cpimg.com/image/B0/47/56919216-0bf1-028001E0-.jpg

That said, you've made other convincing arguments and I'm not against believing that AMG used #11R instead of #07R. Things that are in conflict with that hypothesis are (as you mentioned) that DA mentions #07R was the car they used, and also one of the first ads that appeared online for #07R (we're talking 3 years ago) also made mention of the use by AMG in development of the CLK-GTR as I recall.

Some of the other details you point to could have easily been add-ons to #07R. There's nothing that I can see which makes me 100% convinced that this has to be a 1996 GTR. I really wish there was so we could put the discussion to rest.

One thing that might add some additional credibility to the #11R theory would be the date of the AutoSport magazine article you posted. Depending on when that was reported, it could actually rule out #11R (and most other '96 GTRs) since it would have still been competing in the 1996 BPR Global GT series up until November 1996 at the last race in Zhuhai, China. If that article was printed prior to January 1997 that would cast a big doubt on the possibility of #11R having been the chassis that was used.

>8^)
ER

invite mini magic to the discussion/argument.

im sure he would make some good points here..... :rolleyes:

...If that article was printed prior to January 1997 that would cast a big doubt on the possibility of #11R having been the chassis that was used.


if i remember correctly the german article which you posted before was printed in Sport Auto 4/97...

^_^

http://a6.cpimg.com/image/B0/47/56919216-0bf1-028001E0-.jpg

I never noticed those trianglar shaped vents next to the inside of each headlight on the front nose clip.

They are not vents, but cooling ducts for the front brakes. But I know what you mean. :)

Eric, I was not highlighting the obvious luggage door air intakes. But the lower sill panel. Check them out on these pics of 16R Fina car and 10R

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/3501/p33100737fv.th.jpg (http://img328.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p33100737fv.jpg) 16R http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/715/10r82fp.th.jpg (http://img431.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10r82fp.jpg) 10R

Also check out the lower door duct and bonnet intake panel. Now check out these three pics of 11R. the second pic is from its last 96 race, Zhuhia, China.

http://img419.imageshack.us/img419/8199/p33100709cz.th.jpg (http://img419.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p33100709cz.jpg) http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2614/p33100723vk.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p33100723vk.jpg) http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/377/11r382lt.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11r382lt.jpg) 11r

The luggage door and sill panel are a one piece moulding, similar to the 97 pec panel (ie. the leading lower edge). Now check the McMerc test car. Exactly the same!!! Only the above three cars, have had these panels fitted to them.

Also check the following components.

Roof scoop, Engine cover naca duct, Cat cover, Wind screen wiper arm position, and a small detail, the camloc fastener by the side repeater. All the above details, Together are late 96 spec GTR

Mercedes did not give AMG, The green light for this project until December 96!!! More on this later.

The date of the Autosport article,

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5311/p33100752wq.th.jpg (http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p33100752wq.jpg)

Greg, Can you show me pics of 07R, with all those components fitted!!!

(Don,t believe all, that is written in DA. McLaren only print, what they want to tell you)

Eric, I was not highlighting the obvious luggage door air intakes. But the lower sill panel.

You had mentioned the door duct a few times in your post, so I was just clarifiying. :cool:

Also check out the lower door duct and bonnet intake panel. Now check out these three pics of 11R. the second pic is from its last 96 race, Zhuhia, China.

The luggage door and sill panel are a one piece moulding, similar to the 97 pec panel (ie. the leading lower edge). Now check the McMerc test car. Exactly the same!!! Only the above three cars, have had these panels fitted to them.

Also check the following components.

Roof scoop, Engine cover naca duct, Cat cover, Wind screen wiper arm position, and a small detail, the camloc fastener by the side repeater. All the above details, Together are late 96 spec GTR

The main point I have attempted to make is that all these "clues" are simply add-on pieces. Save for the wiper arm location (which there would be no reason to change) any of the components you are referring to could have easily been attached to any GTR or road car. AMG may have been using a pile of parts to put together their FrankenGTR - those of us who were not there will never really know.

Mercedes did not give AMG, The green light for this project until December 96!!! More on this later.

The date of the Autosport article...

See, those two facts, coupled with the recollection of BMW V12 on the date of the other article certainly give more credibility to #11R at least being a possibility.

(Don,t believe all, that is written in DA. McLaren only print, what they want to tell you)

This is probably the most accurate statement in the entire thread. :D

We've already discovered a few other discrepancies in the great book. The most glaring of those is the text in the chapter on the LMs which states that all 5 customer cars were painted Papaya Orange. :shakehead The funny part of that, is how that statement is directly conflicted by the ACCURATE info given on the chassis history poster. Even Gordon didn't want to fess up to the truth when tvrfreak and I chatted with him. :grinno: :uhoh:

Back on topic - I have one more piece of evidence which gives credibility to #11R being the AMG test car. I know we discussed it here before when it was fresh, but I can't find the thread. I will try to put it up again to be included in this discussion when I have some free time at my home computer.

>8^)
ER

Eric, Look forward to reading that thread, when you find it.

My reference to the "LOWER DOOR DUCT", Is the panel fitted to the lower section of the passenger door. In the side view pic of the McMerc test car, they are wearing Bridgestone graphics. All 95 spec GTR,s had the additional sill panel fitted. Making a complete sill panel, from tyre to tyre!!!

Most GTR,s have stayed specced, as they were last raced!!!

If anybody can post pics of 07R, with all those components previously listed (which I doubt anybody can) I will be most glad to view them.

is this the thread Eric?

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=425937&highlight=curitiba

11R Is wearing a lot of white paint!!!

How do you know thats 18R, Looks like 16R to me.

from memory, that side skirt design was a DPR design, independent of McL Cars. I had only seen it on DPR cars before so I'm not sure of its how this came to be

actually, ignore me its a little different....
http://www.teamquail.com/history/Mclaren96.jpg

Yes Andy,

DPR cars have wooden splitters running along both the lower door duct and luggage door.

that clk-gtr f1 looks very weird. what with they do with that mac after the tests? rebuild to original F1??

that clk-gtr f1 looks very weird. what with they do with that mac after the tests? rebuild to original F1??


Whichever it is, 007R or 011R, both have been changed into looking like an LM - basically road going GTR's in Papaya..........

11R I photographed in Meckenheim Germany at KS Autohandel...

BMW V12, Have you a larger pic (sharper pic) of the McMerc test car in the German magazine article, better than this.

http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/6311/untitled3oh.th.jpg (http://img477.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled3oh.jpg)

I did not enlarge this pic till now? Check out the wiper motor pivot, on the cars centre line, making it a 96 GTR. All we need to do now is confirm exactly which one!!! (are we all barking up the wrong tree!!!)

Will post some more interesting info and pics tomorrow.

Eric, Thanks for not exactly agreeing with me on this GTR,s chassis #. Its got me really going now!!!!!!


Patrick t82, Can you find out any history on 11R, from KS Autohandel, Please.

its not for sale anymore at KS. the guy didnt tell me much about it just chassisnumber which we allready knew..

I don't see the wiper pivot in that pic...it's too grainy. Besides, it might be a Merc unit fitted on. Mercs have a big central wiper pivot.

Also, any guesses as to the small white triangle is on the upper right of the car? Is it a part of the car? Or a marking on the road perhaps?

Many thanks Patrick T82, At least you enquired.

Your thoughts guys, on this mercedes magazine article. Its all about timing!!

http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/9421/p40100633bc.th.jpg (http://img447.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p40100633bc.jpg) http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/8611/p40100645bm.th.jpg (http://img335.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p40100645bm.jpg) http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/4788/p40100668cr.th.jpg (http://img335.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p40100668cr.jpg) http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/184/p40100657ml.th.jpg (http://img335.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p40100657ml.jpg)

Extracts from a 15 page article, No mention or pics of the McMerc test car!!

As far as resourcing competitors cars before Dec96. If they did acquire 07R, It may have been for a totally different reason. Why source an out of date car, when a current version has become available. As Gordon Murray has stated, the 95 car was a converted road car, The 96 GTR 80% race car.

(The clue here, is checking out Jarama lap times?)

Lastly when you have finished with a test mule, you dispose of it!!

http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/2681/p33100768xh.th.jpg (http://img309.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p33100768xh.jpg)

Also, any guesses as to the small white triangle is on the upper right of the car? Is it a part of the car? Or a marking on the road perhaps?

Looks to me like the riight hand side (as we look at it) of the rear flip up wing / lip thingy (technical term:) )- it looks in shadow on the left hand side (as we look at it)


Is it me of does it make it look like the devil, eyes for headlight holes, devil horns for the flips of the rear lip, front hole like a mouth? :evillol: