95 Lesabre stalls and won't start

This is my first time on the forum, I bought a 95 Buick Lesabre, with a 3.8, 10 months ago when my Stratus went belly up, head gasket. I would have never look at buick but after looking on the used car market this car came available I wrote the check on the spot. 95 Lesabre, 71K in great shape for $2600, minor rear bumper damage plastic in perfect shape, the old couple got rear-ended, replace with junk-yard bumper for $100 dollars.

Any who, the car had an ABS light on when I purcharsed, went to Autozone and had them try to scan the codes for me, using an ODBII scanner. Got linking error, the Autozone tech said his scanner would only read 97 and up. What you think?

Anyway the light remained on and I just drove the car, and I am hooked on Buicks now. It is one of the most comfortable cars, great highway mileage, 30mpg and great pickup.

To the problem, I have 84K on the car now with no problems other than the ABS light until 4 nights ago. Coming home from work, outside temp 65F, about 5-7 minutes into my comute, bumper to bumper traffic at this point, stopped at a red light the car just died, all lights on the dash lit up. There was no rough running/idle prior to this, it just died. Jump out the car and open the hood, and could see nothing jumping out at me. After 5 minutes of attempts to restart it started and ran perfect. Stopped for next red light again, sat for a couple of minutes and it died again. Waited another 5 it started. After 3-4 cycles of this I was able to get the car out of traffic, the car ran fine with no failures. Almost forgot, the check engine light came on at one point through out this but went off after one of the restarts. I did notice that prior to the failures the high temp light came on just seconds before the car shut off. Does this car have an auto shut-off for high temps or is this just the first light to come on at the point the car shuts down? I move forward aggressively to address the high temp light even though I really didn't believe the car was running hot. Stopped at O'Reilys and bought a thermostat, replaced it, and after running all the next day with no problems, that evening on the way home same thing. After 3-4 failures and the time between restarts growing, 30-40 minutes after running for a couple, I left the thing in a parking lot and got a ride home. Early next morning I was able to start the car and drive the remaining 10 minutes home, outside temp 39F. I removed the thermostat and verified good flow from water pump, not great at idle. This pump was replaced by the old couple a few months before a bought the car. Changed the temp sensor located under the thottle body, no change.

The car is failing now each time it approaches operating temp, seems to be related to outside temp. As I drove to my friend's mechanic shop in hottest part of day low 80s, the car failed after 5 minutes of driving and wouldn't restart for 40 minutes. Got towed to my friend's mechanic shop and had him try to scan the codes. Scanner, ODBII wouldn't link. He verified no voltage coming from the coil pack. I verified fuel to be present at the fuel line quick disconnects right before the fuel rail and injectors. I have visually inspected all fuses, haven't looked at any relays other then the 2 in the fuse box under the dash.

I plan to take the coil packs and ICM off today and have Autozone test those, read that in one of the other threads. I'm interested in knowing what it will take to read the codes or is this pointing to a bigger problem with the computer? Also if someone could offer some additional diagnostic tips.

Advice and feedback will be much appreciated.

Thanks DaleG

You need to get a scanner on it that works, if it is obd1 that was the transition year only high quaility scanners will work, if the proper scanner will not power up, the cigar liter fuse , I believe is the power source here, check on that, if the scanner powers up but no comm. that is another issue. When it won't start you should check on the scanner for cranking rpms, if none suspect crank sensor or icm. BTW welcome to AF, some pretty experience guys around here. If the scanner issue is a problem check for spark and injector pulse, again if none , suspect same components.

You need to get a scanner on it that works, if it is obd1 that was the transition year only high quaility scanners will work, if the proper scanner will not power up, the cigar liter fuse , I believe is the power source here, check on that, if the scanner powers up but no comm. that is another issue. When it won't start you should check on the scanner for cranking rpms, if none suspect crank sensor or icm. BTW welcome to AF, some pretty experience guys around here. If the scanner issue is a problem check for spark and injector pulse, again if none , suspect same components.

The scanner does power up, there is no need for the alternate cigar lite power...

Update: A friend brought his $800 snap-on scanner, it still would not link. I bit the bullet and bought a CPS and will install it. I ran into trouble removing the harmonic balancer bolt. Picked up a couple of tips on some other threads and will remove tomorrow. Also, I searched for a delco CPS and couldn't find one... bought one from autozone. Hope it's up to par??

I did take some advise from another thread and removed the ICM and coils packs and rush them to autozone to be tested. They told me they couldn't test the coil packs (?), but did test the ICM. After about 30 test the ICM failed. I went to the counter to buy one and the autozone guy told me he has a 3800 that was doing the same thing, tested his ICM and it also failed, replaced it and the problem still existed. The CPS corrected his problem. So I went the low cost route and will see if I get lucky. If not I will invest in the ICM.

Well there seems to be a bitter sweet victory to the stall problem with my 95 Lesabre. In my last update I had elected to purchase a crank position sensor and had some trouble breaking the balancer bolt. After reading some tips I thought I was armed with the correct information to get her done. Well after some attempted tries to break the beast and some info from a local chevy dearlership I elected to try the pull bar/starter method as they so willingly offered. Lodge a pullbar with a pipe resting against the floor and the appropriate size socket on the balance bolt and hit the starter a couple of times. The only thing that I got out of the procedure was the understanding of exactly how much torque the starter can generate as the car almost raised off of the floor jack.

"Now what" I said... I had a friend who knew a friend who had a friend... you get the point... any who we got a 3/4 impact wrench, a 3/4 to 1/2 reducer to fit the 1/2 impact socket. Laws of physics prevailed, the weakest link in the equation broke. Thank goodness it was the 3/4 to 1/2 reducer. :screwy:

Before attempting any additional attemps to remove this beast I elected to go the cheaper route and purchase the ignition control module. You probably thinking those things are around $160 compared to the $30 crank sensor. Well when you compare the expense to breaking the balancer bolt off and $160 to try to resolve the problem, I choose ICM and to my surprise it worked like a champ with no failure so for. Current outside temp was about 56f but I had failures at lower than this the other night.

Back to the balancer bolt... after closer inspection it appears that there is a red substance around and behind the head of the bolt, seems to be a type of RTV or silicon. Looks to thick to be red lock-tight (which I hope it's not). Has anyone ever heard of using something like this on this bolt and having this much trouble getting one of these things off?? I'm really concerned that one day I will need to remove the balancer and don't know which direction to go from here?:banghead:

Might have been off before and that is excess loctite. I doubt you will break that bolt it is pretty stout, It should be on with about 140 lb/ft if done right

Since last update I brought the car into local buick dearler. No codes where present when scanned. I found out the previous owners had a stall problem back in 2003, replace computer, I'm assuming the ECM. Anyway the Buick tech suggested crank position sensor to correct the stall problem. I agreed and they attempted to remove the harmonic balancer bolt that I couldn't remove. After about 30 minutes into it got a call from one of the service guys and he said they were unable to remove the bolt. They proceeded to give me thier standard disclaimer, we can continue to try but if we break or strip it then there's a bigger problem... I guess I thought these guys could work some magic on this thing and get the job done... I had them button the car back up and proceeded on the next leg of the dianostic journey.

There are lots of threads discussing stall problems related to improper grounds. That's the avenue I decided to work on tonight. Verified good ground located under kick panel on passenger side of car. Also looked at the connector located on the rail on passenger side all good. (thanks for that tip)

I then moved into the engine compartment. I've notice a wire that was run from the ground post behind the battery that disappears somewhere under the alternator... this doesn't look like factory wiring to me. So I removed the belt and alternator and found a ground post that comes off front of the engine with this wire and a couple of other factory wires. Started removing the first of the double nuts, this nut held some type of splash shield. Then proceeded to the second nut and low and behold the thing wasn't even hand tight and the connectors behind this nut were somewhat loose. After getting the connectors in plain site there was a great amount of oxidation that had built up. That's not to good... or is it. I proceeded to polish these back to the luster of a new copper penny and snugged everything back together.

Since the installation of the ICM, I've had 3-4 failures in a 2 day period, much less frequent with average restarts occruing within a minute or 2. I hope this connector issue resolves this problem.

If anyone knows of any other ground/connectors I need to inspect or any other diagnostic tips. I am trying to dismiss all other possibilities prior to moving forward the the harmonic balancer bolt and crank sensor change.

Regards Dale

I was just reading your post and I think I have the same problem with the grounds also. Read my post, the topic is '92 wont start,no fire, it's pretty new. Could you tell me where you located all of your grounds.:sunglasse

I also forgot to mention that I just replaced my crank sensor. I took a breaker bar (craftsman brand) with the right sized socket and placed the handle against the motor mount and turned the ignition switch for a second and broke that sucker loose easy as pie.
Just make sure you use a 6 point socket vs. a 12 point.

Here you go ottoyota, take a look at the link below.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2310744/1

Hope this helps... If you know of any others, let me know.

Thanks Dale

I went through most of those grounds yesterday. Now I can't even get it running like I did in my other post. This must be a big problem with these cars. I could getthe fuel pump to kick on by wiggling the harness plug at the icm.

Did you ever get a good diagnostic tool on it? My late 95 (trabsition) lesabre has an OBD II connector under the steering collumn but an OBD I computer (or vice versa), so it requires a high end tool to read. The code I got for a similar problem indicated the cam sensor which is a 5 minute fix for $30. Also try the "tap test" on your ECM - with the car running, tap on the ECM with your knuckles or a screwdriver handle; if the car stumbles or stalls, the ECM may have a loose circuit board. Good Luck.

I am surprised you are still able to get the car inspected with ABS light on. I am fairly certain that in my state, New Jersey, that if you have any dash lights on (ABS, check engine, or other things that affect safety or emissions) you fail immediately. They also fail you if they find out the airbag has been deployed, because it implies the car has sustained a hard impact and may have frame damage (I think they can check for an airbag deployment code with an OBD scanner). You have to have your car recertified as roadworthy by the state police if that happens.

Hey, by the way, your car looks a lot like mine. Mine is white with blue interior,too. Is yours a Custom or a Limited? You don't have all the chrome on the outside like mine does and from the sliver of the seat cover I can see, it looks like you have the cloth interior instead of the leather.

Anyway, good luck finding the cause of your problem and getting that damn bolt out. Just hope that all that loc-tite holding the bolt in isn't hiding a bigger problem. People don't usually do things like that without a reason. :2cents:


Hmmmm....just curious, does anyone know if there is an oil seal in the area of the balancer bolt?? It may not be loc-tite, but a huge glob of red hi-temp RTV silicone preventing a leaky seal from dripping.

Hi:
I've been researching a stalling problem on a 1996 Buick LeSabre, and I think I've come across something that may help you. The problem you are having sounds like the tcc (torque converter clutch) solenoid for the transmission is engaging and locking up. You can check this by removing the connector wire for it from the transmission; if the stalling problem stops you'll know it's the problem and I understand it's only about a $40 part. If it's not the problem, all you will lose is a little bit of mpg while you are testing it out w/ the wire off. The tcc lockup is apparently a fairly common problem in GM's of this time frame. For more info on the problem, you can google "gm tcc lock up" or something similar. I hope this helps!

Did you ever resolve this? The scan tool you probably need is the tech 1 made by GM. The mid year 95's had an OBD1 computer with an OBDII port. The GM scan tool is very expensive.

It was the crank position sensor. I finally got a friend to heat up the harmonic balancer bolt with a small tipped touch, we let it cool completely, 2 tries with the pull bar starter method and the bolt broke free. Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to the group... Thanks for all the advise.

Thanks for the feedback, some good info here. Congratulations on getting the problem resolved! Since this thread is over six months old, it will be closed from further posting. :uhoh: