Transmission Problems Please Help...
Phoenix1
03-26-2006, 12:04 AM
Just seen the other transmission thread and figured why not try my luck...
Ok, I have been having problems with the transmission ever since it got destroyed by a dealership mechanic. Right now the car (97 Grand Caravan AWD 3.8L) is in a transmission shop (gave up on Dodge to fix it again and again) but they have not been able to duplicate the problem (there is no pattern) or having any idea what is causing it. So if anybody can think of anything that can cause either of the two symptoms (or both) I am describing, I would appreciate if you could give me some guesses so I can forward them as suggestions to the technician. Oh, it does not have to be transmission related but right now I can't think of a better explanation (then again I am no car mechanic...lol)
Problem 1:
While driving the car will stop reacting to the gas pedal. The RPM does not drop and this usually lasts for 10-30 seconds, then, depending on the position of the gas pedal, the RPM will jump. This happens at all speeds and could go days without an incident and another when it happens consecutively a few times.
Problem 2:
The car starts "jerking" and it feels somewhat like the gear is not correctly engaged (like missing the gear on a manual transmission and the car acting violently, just not THAT extreme). Again, no pattern though it usually seems to happen when the car is first being used (usually means this also happens sometimes after the car has warmed up).
No electronic trouble codes are being stored at all, according to the diagnostics the car should have no issues. Fluid level is ok and fluid appears good.
Thanks in advance for any help...
Ok, I have been having problems with the transmission ever since it got destroyed by a dealership mechanic. Right now the car (97 Grand Caravan AWD 3.8L) is in a transmission shop (gave up on Dodge to fix it again and again) but they have not been able to duplicate the problem (there is no pattern) or having any idea what is causing it. So if anybody can think of anything that can cause either of the two symptoms (or both) I am describing, I would appreciate if you could give me some guesses so I can forward them as suggestions to the technician. Oh, it does not have to be transmission related but right now I can't think of a better explanation (then again I am no car mechanic...lol)
Problem 1:
While driving the car will stop reacting to the gas pedal. The RPM does not drop and this usually lasts for 10-30 seconds, then, depending on the position of the gas pedal, the RPM will jump. This happens at all speeds and could go days without an incident and another when it happens consecutively a few times.
Problem 2:
The car starts "jerking" and it feels somewhat like the gear is not correctly engaged (like missing the gear on a manual transmission and the car acting violently, just not THAT extreme). Again, no pattern though it usually seems to happen when the car is first being used (usually means this also happens sometimes after the car has warmed up).
No electronic trouble codes are being stored at all, according to the diagnostics the car should have no issues. Fluid level is ok and fluid appears good.
Thanks in advance for any help...
KManiac
03-26-2006, 08:52 PM
I must say you have some interesting symptons there. I have a 1998 Town & Country LX AWD with 3.8L. After 88,000 miles I have not encountered such symptoms. But here is my two cents for what it's worth.
Problem 1 - I would suspect the throttle position sensor. Darned electronics can be unpredictable.
Problem 2 - That shudder in the transmission may be caused by someone using other than ATF-3 in your "ultradrive". Read your owner's manual about how specific the ATF (that's "Automatic Transmission Fluid" for those of you from Rio Linda) needs to be for these cars. I would suggest flushing the current fluid out and refilling with ATF-3. Even though it was a Dodge Dealer working on the car, and they above all should know best what fluid needs to be used in your vehicle, it is possible an absent-minded mechanic may have picked up a quart of either Dextron, Mercon or , God forbid, "Type-F" by mistake and put it in your precious transmission. Or, then again, they could have added the wrong transmission fluid on purpose to keep you coming back for more. An independent transmission shop should be able to do this for you, or you can do it yourself just to make sure and confirm for yourself that the proper fluid is used.
Like I said before, that is my two cents for what it's worth. Let us know what you decide to do and what happens next.
Problem 1 - I would suspect the throttle position sensor. Darned electronics can be unpredictable.
Problem 2 - That shudder in the transmission may be caused by someone using other than ATF-3 in your "ultradrive". Read your owner's manual about how specific the ATF (that's "Automatic Transmission Fluid" for those of you from Rio Linda) needs to be for these cars. I would suggest flushing the current fluid out and refilling with ATF-3. Even though it was a Dodge Dealer working on the car, and they above all should know best what fluid needs to be used in your vehicle, it is possible an absent-minded mechanic may have picked up a quart of either Dextron, Mercon or , God forbid, "Type-F" by mistake and put it in your precious transmission. Or, then again, they could have added the wrong transmission fluid on purpose to keep you coming back for more. An independent transmission shop should be able to do this for you, or you can do it yourself just to make sure and confirm for yourself that the proper fluid is used.
Like I said before, that is my two cents for what it's worth. Let us know what you decide to do and what happens next.
Phoenix1
03-27-2006, 05:26 AM
Just checked the paperwork and they used ATF-4, is that ok for the transmission or is it the wrong fluid ? Is there any difference between ATF-3 and ATF-4 ?
RIP
03-27-2006, 04:08 PM
:2cents: I'm just a driveway mechanic but, I'm thinking this sounds fuel system related ie no reaction to the gas pedal. Could be your fuel pump is on the verge of death or the fuel pick up tube/filter is getting clogged. Normally, an indication of a pump going is higher speed hesitations but, if it's bad enough it could show up at any speed.
Yes, there is a differense between ATF-3 and ATF-4 T-fluid. What it is I'm not sure but, there's a few people on this forum who could tell you. Chrysler started using ATF-4 around the 2000 model year. Could have created some of your problems. Keep in touch.
Yes, there is a differense between ATF-3 and ATF-4 T-fluid. What it is I'm not sure but, there's a few people on this forum who could tell you. Chrysler started using ATF-4 around the 2000 model year. Could have created some of your problems. Keep in touch.
Phoenix1
03-27-2006, 04:28 PM
Was thinking of the fuel pump also but in case there is not enough fuel being pumped, wouldn't that cause some sort of misfire or error code ? Either way, I put fuel pump on my list...
From what I read online, seems ATF-4 is not my best choice so will have them replace the fluid with ATF-3. Can't hurt either way...
From what I read online, seems ATF-4 is not my best choice so will have them replace the fluid with ATF-3. Can't hurt either way...
RIP
03-27-2006, 04:47 PM
Yes you would think you would get a code but, I've also read that components can go bad and not trigger a code when they should. Read through the info on Allpar.com. I read something about if you're missing the crankshaft sensor signal your pump won't work. Maybe you've got a dirty sensor giving intermittent signals? (That's a BIG maybe) You'll have to spend some time but there's gobs of info specific to GC transmissions, computer codes and general maintenance.
If you change the T fluid normally you can only drain 2-3 quarts of the 8-9 quarts that is in it. There is a procedure you can do in your driveway to get it all out. It's somewhere on the Allpar site. Beyond that, you'll have to get the system flushed. Better yet, take it back to whoever put AFT-4 in it and have them do it free of charge.
If you change the T fluid normally you can only drain 2-3 quarts of the 8-9 quarts that is in it. There is a procedure you can do in your driveway to get it all out. It's somewhere on the Allpar site. Beyond that, you'll have to get the system flushed. Better yet, take it back to whoever put AFT-4 in it and have them do it free of charge.
Alphabravo
03-27-2006, 08:46 PM
I would suggest checking the plugs and wires for the "jerking". I had bad wires in my '92 and after trying everything else I replaced them and took care of the problem.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Alphabravo
03-27-2006, 08:46 PM
I would suggest checking the plugs and wires for the "jerking". I had bad wires in my '92 and after trying everything else I replaced them and took care of the problem.
Good luck.
Good luck.
troy1
03-27-2006, 10:29 PM
I would take it to a shop the specialies in electrical problems. That should fix your problem ask around and find a good one.
Troy
Troy
slantsixness
03-30-2006, 08:45 AM
All right....
Now you'll have another opinion:
It's not the transmission? The Crank Sensor is intermittently shorting out? This happened on my brother's 97 T&C. Eventually, it stopped running entirely, and when you went to retrieve the codes, the code readers and check engine light wouldn't even come on with the cranks sensor shorted, and the car would not even start or engage the starter. The TPS and ACT along with the MAP sensors can give a similar problem too.
Oh yes... if these short intermittently, they WILL NOT throw a code, and if they short out completely, you can't get the codes even if they did generate one!
Now on to the transmission. 99.999% sure you DON'T have ATF+3. That causes the shuddering, late shifting, no reverse etc.. or....Speed sensor maybe? TCM? Valve body? But your symptoms don't fit those problems.
THERE IS NO ADDIDTIVE IN THIS WORLD THAT WILL MAKE DEXRON INTO ATF+3. THERE ARE NO ADDITIVES THAT SHOULD EVER BE USED IN THESE TRANSMISSIONS PERIOD.
Last but not least, don't overlook a failing fuel pump or a clogged filter as possibilities for the ignition problem.
Now you'll have another opinion:
It's not the transmission? The Crank Sensor is intermittently shorting out? This happened on my brother's 97 T&C. Eventually, it stopped running entirely, and when you went to retrieve the codes, the code readers and check engine light wouldn't even come on with the cranks sensor shorted, and the car would not even start or engage the starter. The TPS and ACT along with the MAP sensors can give a similar problem too.
Oh yes... if these short intermittently, they WILL NOT throw a code, and if they short out completely, you can't get the codes even if they did generate one!
Now on to the transmission. 99.999% sure you DON'T have ATF+3. That causes the shuddering, late shifting, no reverse etc.. or....Speed sensor maybe? TCM? Valve body? But your symptoms don't fit those problems.
THERE IS NO ADDIDTIVE IN THIS WORLD THAT WILL MAKE DEXRON INTO ATF+3. THERE ARE NO ADDITIVES THAT SHOULD EVER BE USED IN THESE TRANSMISSIONS PERIOD.
Last but not least, don't overlook a failing fuel pump or a clogged filter as possibilities for the ignition problem.
C. Cleve
03-30-2006, 11:11 AM
Hi, SOUNDS LIKE>>>>>>>>All your symptoms are driveability related, This means as far as the basics go.....The last time a GOOD maintenence tune up was done?????????????You know like, plugs,wires,all the filter etc....Oh!. And by the way.....CLEAN THE THROTTLE BODY>>>>> See Ya, Clay...
Phoenix1
03-30-2006, 01:16 PM
I had a tune up (spark plugs & wires, fuel filter...etc) done in September/October last year, is that too long ago ? The problems existed for a longer time also, pretty much since last year but I can't be without a car so I was reluctant to drop it off just to have it returned to me again (plus they had just finished fixing the tranny after drilling holes into my baby). I mean I had just bought the car and driven it for quite some distance with no issues (all the maintenance work I had done was preventative, I had no issues), then I had maintenance performed by the "experts" and since then it went down the drain (literally as I was driving the car dry, ouch) and I had problems ever since. That's why despite the fact that some people suggest it might not be transmission related, I am pretty much convinced that it has to do with the transmission work.
UPDATE:
Got the car back today and they fixed the torque tube (unrelated problem) and did a transmission flush at my request. Now they put ATF-3 and Lubeguard ?! in the transmission. Since I didn't ask for the additive, I hope it doesn't cause any problems ?!
Also going to have my Throttle Position Sensor replaced soon (again at my request since the mechanic couldn't reproduce the problem). Will keep you guys updated and thanks so much for all the help... :)
UPDATE:
Got the car back today and they fixed the torque tube (unrelated problem) and did a transmission flush at my request. Now they put ATF-3 and Lubeguard ?! in the transmission. Since I didn't ask for the additive, I hope it doesn't cause any problems ?!
Also going to have my Throttle Position Sensor replaced soon (again at my request since the mechanic couldn't reproduce the problem). Will keep you guys updated and thanks so much for all the help... :)
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