New car?

im thinking of getting rid of the cavalier and getting. . . . . . . . A Cobalt SS S/C. I know i used to dog those cars like crazy, but they have grown on me and so has the ecotec motor. After i saw a stock block 2.2L ecotec run 11's i decided that i must have one. But i dont want another cavalier i want the 2.0 Supercharged so i have alot of room to improve. Im gonna go talk to the dealership today and see what kinda offer they can give me for the cavalier, im gonna try for 8500. KBB without the supercharger is about 6500 ish private value. I owe about 4800 or so i believe on it. So ill take the rest of the money and use that for a down payment. Hopefully that will convince them to give me the 8500 for the car, so i can make the larger down payment. But im still up in the air about it.

Well, I'd say go for it, if the car was paid off already. I would never consider selling a car that wasn't paid off, unless I HAD to. You owe $4000 more, you can pay that off in a year. But if you really want to go for it, I'd sell your Cavy privately. The dealership is going to rape you on that trade in. Put it up for sale on the forums.

yeah im not sure what im going to do, im not gonna do a dealer trade in thats for sure. My GF wants to buy my car/ take over payments. I figure if she gave me 2500 that would make the total cost of the car for her 7,000 bucks. Thats not really bad at all. I would then put another 1,000 bucks into a down payment so a 3500 dollar downpayment. Only problem is in order to afford the monthly payments on it comfortably i would have to take out a 72 month loan. I got good credit so i can get a low interest rate, around 6-7%. With all that figured out my car payments would be around $315 bucks a month. Up from my current $165.00 bucks a month. But my insurance stay exactly the same. . .that shows how nice and safe cavaliers are. A 20,000 dollar supercharged car cost the same to insure as a Grocery getter 6500 dollar car. . .go figure. . .

so i got some thinking to do right now. . .

Keep the Cavalier... at least until it's paid for. IMO, the z24 looks better (at least the exterior). But that is something you have to decide.

After reading the follow-up, I definetely feel that you should keep the Cavy.

I talked with my financial advisor about my situation a while back, before buying the S2000. He told me, that if you can't pay for it in 2 years, you can't afford it. IMO, 72 month loan is way too long, especially if you're not going to keep the car that long. I actually got a 60 month loan for the S2000, but I'm paying $542/month, and this way I will pay it off in 2.5 years. I know that sounds like a lot, but I'm probably not going to do any major mods until it's paid off. Then I will go FI.

I really like your cavalier. It's such a sleeper. BTW, you need to post some pictures of it with the new wheels.

hmmm yeah still deciding, im just kinda dissapointed in the cavalier cause ive kinda hit a wall right now as far as performance goes. I trans wont be able to take much more HP and neither will the engine without some serious internal work. And i want a faster car. 14's arent keeping me happy anymore, and low 14's wont do it either. I know the Cobalt will only run 14's stock, but that engine has alot of room to expand. I can easily see a stock block cobalt SS S/C running low 13's comfortably.

Also cavaliers lose there resale value rather quickly. They are dropping even faster since the Cobalts were released. If i wait to pay off the car before i sell it, i honestly think i would lose more money. Just because of what i have invested into it. If i can sell it now, i walk away with my orignal downpayment intact. i took out a 60 month lease when i originally got the cavalier mainly due to financial constraints. So i still got 3 years to pay off the cavalier, and by then it wont be worth what ive put into it nor will i get my money back.

The way i see it, if i keep the cavalier i have another 3 years of being where i am at, not much room to expand without putting more money into the car than what i want to or what its worth.

Hmmm. . .

Try this. For the next 2-3 months, try making double the monthly payment on the Cavy. So instead of $165/month, pay $330/month. That's what it would feel like to have the Cobalt. If you can make the payment comfortable for the 2-3 months, then go for the Cobalt. Otherwise, stick with the Cavy.

Civic...c'mon you know you wanna be a Honda-Fan-Boi like me...:biggrin:



Kidding, keep the Cavy son. Not too many of them rollin around these days, with some actual performance to them.

Well, a new Civic Si would be a better decision financially, because it will be worth a lot more than a Cobalt in 5 years, but I know you won't listen.

i dont like hondas. The extra money per month wont be a hard thing, before i even thought of a new car, i picked up an extra day at my work. That alone will give me an extra 200-300 dollars a month. Plus i should be getting a raise at work as well, not a huge one, another dollar an hour at most. The extra day was to make money to spend on the cavy this summer. But i realised i dont want to dump more money into that car anymore. I want something new.

Cars im also considering

Neon SRT4 -Used if i can find one with really low miles
WRX - Used, i like the AWD, not the performance aspect
Mazda 3 Speed - Lots of performance
Dodge Caliber SRT4 - Tons of performance

Well, you live in Michigan. Get the WRX. It will be nice in the winter.

The only problem I see is that you want to make money off the fact that you have mods. People, and especially dealers, don't give a rats ass about what mods you have done to the car. Cars are not like homes. In a house you can put in a yard and you build equity. In a car you add a supercharger and nobody gives a shit.

I just don't see you getting $8,500 for the car unless you find someone that is looking for a SC Cavy.

Car payments = Da suck. Dude wait until the new turbocharged ecotec motor comes out. It's bound to make its way into the Cobalt SS, and most likely the S/C versions will drop in value like crazy.

Fuck, buy my car for $18.5k. You'll smoke the shit out of most of the Cobalt SS's that you come across, provided you can find traction that is :p

i actually refused to buy a modded car. 2 out of 3 times a modded car has been ragged out. not saying yours is, its just a generalization.

Yeah, you know me, I just peel out sideways around every corner. Over here in California you're able to get away with as much street racing as possible :uhoh: (Sarcasm intended, they destroy your car for street racing, irregardless of whether you owe money on it).

Actually I rarely race my car, though I do admit that I find traction to be a serious issue with the 4.10's and no traction control.

P.S. it's stock :p Atleast it sounds like a stock car w/ an exhaust.

That's a tough decision to make there. I know for a fact you will be much happier with the Cobalt over your S/C cavy, but then again you don't want to get ripped off from trading over. I'd go to a dealership and see what they'll do for your Cavy trade in wise and if they won't fork over enough then go private with the Cavy.

Have you bothered to test drive an ss/sc yet? If not you should do that and maybe that'll help you finalize if you really do want to make the switch.

ok well im keeping the cavy for now. new plan is to work like hell this summer and pay the cavy off completely. Then decide where i want to go from there. I think it would fetch a better price than a normal cavalier would, its made by the same company, not some 3rd party company. Just find some young guy, maybe 17-19 who wants a fast car but cant afford an SRT4 or SS S/C. My car would be a dream.

Pssstt...Jayson...get a Civic...c'mon...get a Civic...:biggrin:

well when the time comes, test drive the cobalt... i test drove one (not the s/c) and it just wasn't the feel i was looking for... don't get me wrong i love the car, it just needs some improvements) i'd wait till it's paid off like you mentioned and then wait till the end of the year (when the prices drop) and then decide.

i've heard it comes with LSD, cant go wrong with that, cobalt supercharged w/lsd, i dig it, but im not into domestics :D

i've heard it comes with LSD, cant go wrong with that, cobalt supercharged w/lsd, i dig it, but im not into domestics :D


you dont even know what an LSD is. . .


i test drove one yesterday. As far as powerwise it felt a little slower than my cavy. The interior is alright, the dash was what bugged me. GM loves to use cheap plastic.

So, why don't you just drive a new Civic Si just for the heck of it?

Civic! CIVIC! CIVIC! CIVIC! CIVIC! CIVIC! CIVIC!



CIVIC!!!!111shift+one!!111

hey jayson whered u go to high school?

Civic! CIVIC! CIVIC! CIVIC! CIVIC! CIVIC! CIVIC!



CIVIC!!!!111shift+one!!111


Something about this post tells my your vote is leaning towards a Honda.:sly:

you dont even know what an LSD is. . .

A Limited Slip Differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in rotational velocity of the output shafts, but does not allow the difference in speed to increase beyond a preset amount. In an automobile, such limited slip differentials are sometimes used in place of a standard differential, where they convey certain dynamic advantages, at the expense of greater complexity.

The main advantage of a limited slip differential is found by considering the case of a standard differential where one wheel has no contact with the ground at all. In such a case, the contacting wheel will remain stationary, and the non-contacting wheel will rotate at twice its intended velocity – the torque transmitted will be zero and the vehicle will remain stationary. In everyday use on typical roads, such a situation is very unlikely, and so a normal differential suffices. For more demanding use however, such as driving off-road, or for high performance vehicles, such a state of affairs is undesirable, and the LSD can be employed to deal with it. By limiting the velocity difference between a pair of driven wheels, useful torque can be transmitted as long as there is some friction available on at least one of the wheels.

Types

Two main types of LSD have been generally used – mechanical (geared or clutch-based) and fluid based (viscous). The latter is gaining ground especially in modern all-wheel drive vehicles, and generally requires less maintenance than the mechanical type.

Mechanical

In the mechanical clutch type, a mechanism, such as a centrifugal weighted rotor, detects differential wheel velocity and applies friction to the clutch mechanism which links the two shafts together. As the differential wheel velocity increases, more friction is applied. This mechanism forms a negative feedback loop which limits the slip to a preset degree. In some designs, the clutch is self-actuating and oftentimes small multi-plate clutches are used. Because the slip-limiting action (increasing friction) occurs quite rapidly, this method can create unsettling dynamic effects for the vehicle as a whole.

In this case, the use of the word mechanical implies that the limited slip differential is engaged or not due to interaction between two (or more) mechanical parts. This category includes clutch and helical limited slip differentials. For road racing, many prefer a helical limited slip differential, because it does not lock the two output shafts to spin at the same rate, but rather biases torque to the wheel with more grip by up to 80%.

Clutch limited slip differentials use a center cam that moves within a casing as the torque changes. The casing is made up of two symmetrical left and right segments. However, the cuts in the casing making the notches for the cam to slide in are not. That determines 1, 1.5, or 2-way LSD. As the cam slides in the notch, it pushes the casing outward, engaging a series of clutch discs--some attached to the casing, some to the output shafts. When engaged, both output shafts will rotate at the speed of the casing, making both axles and subsequently both wheels, rotate at the same speed.

A 1-way notch is cut like an upside down triangle. While the cam can push backward against the tapered edges, expanding the casing, it cannot push forward against the flat surface. Therefore under acceleration torque (cam rotating backwards) it will lock, and under deceleration torque, when the cam is forced to rotate forward due to forces from braking, engine braking, etc.. it will just contact a flat "wall" and the casing will not expand.

A 1.5-way notch is like an upside down triangle with a half triangle on top of it. During acceleration it will expand the casing at one rate, and during deceleration, it will still expand the casing, but due to the cuts' higher angles, it will require more force to move the casing apart. Therefore, only during Very hard braking will it have enough force pushing it forward to expand the casing.

A 2-way notch is shaped like a diamond. It requires almost the same amount of acceleration or deceleration to force the casing apart. Usually, the top cuts are slightly more dramatic, forcing the 2-way to require slightly more deceleration force to push the cam to expand the casing.

The more the casing expands, the more clutches contact each other, hence the more the output shafts get locked into the same rotation. Some manufacturers produce adjustable clutch limited slip differentials whereby you may set a breakaway torque level. Resultantly, the clutch discs are moved closer together or further apart to dictate the SOFT, MED, or HARD setting. The closer the clutch plates are to each other, the more readily the output shafts--thus the wheels--will spin in sync.



Geared, torque-sensitive mechanical limited slip differentials utilize planetary gears to "sense" torque on one shaft. The most famous version is the Torsen differential invented by Vernon Gleasman in 1958, then sold to Gleason Corporation, who started marketing it in 1982. Geared LSDs are less prone to wear than the clutch type, but some have found their torque distribution characteristics to be less than ideal.

Viscous

The viscous type is generally simpler, and relies on the properties of a dilatant fluid – that is, one which thickens when subject to shear. Silicone-based oils are often used. Here, a chamber of fluid rotates with the normal motion of the output shafts, but a differential motion causes paddles or vanes to move through the fluid. The greater the speed of the vanes, the more resistance the fluid will put up to oppose this motion. In contrast to the mechanical type, the limiting action is much softer and more proportional to the slip, so for the average driver is generally much easier to cope with.

Viscous LSDs are less efficient than mechanical types, that is, they "lose" some power. However, they are less prone to breakdown as long as the fluid is changed regularly.


Here's what happens if you're riding off-road and irregular terrain leaves one of your tires in the air or on a poor traction surface and you have limited slip differentials:

* Some 4WD vehicle manufacturers offer a "limited slip differential" option. As the name implies, they limit wheel slip. These use clutch plates to lock the differential, and when turning on dry pavement they just slip.

* Unfortunately, they also slip when there is a significant difference in traction between two wheels in an off-highway situation. Limited slip differentials do not prevent wheel slip; they only delay wheel slip. Therefore, traction is lost a little later than without limited slip, and you will be stuck a little later.

IN THE 1920s, the Scurlock differential was a simple mechanical device that automatically locked the axles together if a wheel slipped during start-off. Modern traction control systems use a computer to limit engine power during wheel spin, but most still use some kind of limited slip differential (LSD). In an open differential, 100 percent of the driving torque can flow to one of the differential's two side gears, leaving none for the other side. An LSD limits that torque split.

The most common design uses simple spring-loaded clutches between each side gear and the differential housing. When the vehicle is turning, the clutches will slip because both wheels still have traction and the spring-loaded clutches are overpowered. If one wheel is slipping, the other axle will receive as much torque as the spring-loaded clutch can transfer.

A similar system eliminates the clutch plates and uses cone-shaped side gears with Bellville spring washers between the gears and differential housing. When there is a torque difference, the side gears tend to "cam" away from the spider gears. If the torque difference is great enough, the side gears will overcome the spring washers and wedge into cone-shaped cavities machined into the differential housing.

Another system, common in trucks, uses a flyweight governor to sense differences in side gear speed. A cam plate between the differential case and the left side gear turns with the gear, but when the flyweights move apart, they trip a latch that locks the cam plate to the housing. As the side gear rides up the cam, the whole differential is forced toward the other side of the case. There is a clutch pack between the case and the right side gear. As the left side gear rides up the cam ramp, the tight side gear exerts more clamping force on the clutch, gradually locking the whole differential to the housing. This system is usually called a Detroit Locker, and it only works at low speeds

In each of these systems, total movement of the side gears is only thousandths of an inch. Torque split is determined by mechanical properties such as spring pressure, clutch spacing and cam profile, and each of these units requires special lubricants. Except for the

Detroit Locker, torque split is generally limited to about 40 percent, and all of these devices tend to act in a rather "on" or "off" fashion.

A newer design, the Torque Biasing Differential (TBD), first perfected by Quaife Engineering Ltd. and more commonly known as a TORSEN (torque sensing) differential, reacts to torque differences rather than speed differences. To understand this device, it's important to remember that input torque always equals output torque. With one drive wheel off the ground, it may be turning but no torque is being transmitted to it because there is no resistance to turning.

Though there are a few different designs, the TBD is basically two planetary gear sets with the axle shafts in the sun gear position. In its simplest form, the planet gears of each gear set reach across to engage each other, joining the two gear sets together. The differential housing acts as a common combination ring gear and planet carrier, so all of the input torque is applied to the planet gears all the time, and it's up to the planet gears to split the torque. The gears are helical cut, and it's the sideways thrust generated by the planet gears that transfers torque from one set to the other. As long as the wheels have the same traction, side thrust is zero and torque split is even. But when a wheel (sun gear) slows for a turn or loses traction, torque is reduced on that sun gear but multiplied by the side thrust of the planet gears and applied to the other wheel. The angle of the teeth on the planet gears determines the maximum side thrust and therefore the maximum possible torque split, typically 20/80, but up to that limit the split is infinitely variable and progressive. No torque is lost due to a slipping clutch, and when turning on a dry road, the higher torque is applied to the outside wheel, driving the vehicle into the turn. The disadvantage is that it won't work if one wheel has no traction at all, but that can be overcome by light braking. Tiffs type of differential is commonly used in vehicles that use ABS for electronic traction control and also as the center differential in full-time four-wheel drive.

There are two types of hydraulic limited-slip differentials. The simpler and more common type is called a viscous clutch. It has a clutch pack with a stack of clutch discs firmly attached to one axle shaft, interleaved with a similar stack firmly attached to the other axle shaft. Hydraulic fluid between the discs transfers the torque of one to the other, so the clutch discs never actually touch. When turning at the same speed, there is no torque split. When one set of clutch discs turns faster than the other, the hydraulic fluid transfers torque to the slower dutch discs. Clutch disc spacing and fluid viscosity both influence the maximum torque transfer, which can be as much as 95 percent, but it's controlled by the difference in speed between the clutch packs. With one wheel on ice, simply give it more gas to get power to the other wheel. Obviously, a viscous clutch differential is extremely smooth, and it's often used as the center differential in full-time four-wheel drive.

The other hydraulic differential is commonly found in industrial off-road vehicles and extremely high-performance cars. It uses a dutch pack too, but the discs are splined and can move on the shafts. Also one end of the stack has a hydraulically powered apply piston, similar to an automatic transmission. Hydraulic pressure is supplied by an engine-driven pump or by a gerotor pump mounted on the axle or driveshaft. Hydraulic pressure is controlled with a solenoid valve, and when the valve is pulse-width modulated, clutch slip can be infinitely modulated to operate the differential fully open, fully locked or anywhere in between.

:D http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/icons/icon10.gif:bigthumb::icon16:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/icons/icon11.gif

^ Copy and paste is the act of googling something you dont know, then copying it and pasting it into a new thread. This can be seen perfectly above. You should really quote that ric(er), else wise its plagery.

i think he meant actual knowledge, not just copy and paste...

LMAO oh damn ricer you sure do live up to your name. . .

i went to Dearborn High School class of 03.

I might try a few other cars, not to sure yet which ones. Ive started to rethink, and i want to try and pay off my cavalier, and wait for pontiac to releases its 4 banger supercharged version of the cobalt.

whatever, i DID copy and paste, im trying to say i do my research and know what lsd is, anyyyy waysss......i see you updated your cardomain, and hmmmrrrrr.....i think your gf needs to take her glasses off =p and did you ever finished the whole video? i DID noticed "full video coming december 2005" on that preview vid

Something about this post tells my your vote is leaning towards a Honda.:sly:

Whatever could you mean...that's just...nuh uh...


:tongue: