Brakes Nitemare!!

My dream of having a truck is falling apart around me!:banghead: I finaly got the clutch fixed. Next project is the Brakes. The back of the rear drivers side wheel was wet from brake fluid. I figured it was the wheel cylinder so I purchaced a couple and started in on the project.
After securing the truck on jack stands and removing the wheels, I pulled the drum from the opposite side first to find everything either rusted or coated with a 1/4 inch of sticky black grease. It looks like it hasn't worked for quite a while. When I pulled the drum from the side that was leaking,:eek: what do I find?? NOTHING !:evillol: The only thing left was the wheel cylinder !! No shoes, springs,tensioner... NOTHING !! :screwy:
Now get this, I live in Pa. State Inspection required. He said he drove it till just before inspection ran out. The sticker was up 12/2005 !! What a rattle trap!! I think the brake fluid was eating away the drum.. what a mess !
The dust shields are rusted pretty bad. I guess the question is:
Can you buy the internal workings of the rear brakes, or should I buy the whole wheel assembly from the junk yard?
I hope you got as much of a laugh from this as I did finding it.. if not, I guess you had to be there!! LOL Again, thanks in advance for any info and help.

you should be able to buy all of the parts you need at a parts store. i had a rear tire fall off of my jeep while going 70 and had to buy all new stuff. you will probably need to get the dust plate and possibly springs from a junkyard.

Can you post a picture of the problem parts?
Brake hardware (springs and clips that hold the shoes on) can be purchased at most autoparts stores. So can drums.
Tensioner and associated parts may be a wrecking yard or dealer part, but ask at your local parts store. If you decide on a used one, make sure the threads and the adjusting wheel are good. Use the proper lube on the threads.
Have the drums measured to be sure that they can be turned.
If possible, remove the backing plates, strip and paint with a good quality rust inhibitive spray paint. If the backing plates are too far gone, then see if you can get some good used ones.
Pick your part wrecking yards are usually a little cheaper.
Check out ebay.com for used parts. Don't be afraid to ask sellers questions, or for pictures.
Be aware there is a left side and a right side adjuster.
Can you ask the previous owner if he has the parts? (ask nicely, he already knows that he is a jerk and a liar)
Check to make sure the parking brake cable is not rusted, and is functioning properly.
Use a little anti-seize on the wheel studs. It makes changing tires easier and can prolong the life of the threads on the studs.
As for parts availability, many autoparts stores have websites so you can see what they have.
When you go to buy replacement parts, take the old ones with you. Toyota had a couple of different sizes in drum brakes.

First off, what truck do you have ?

And like the previous post said, can you show pics so we can tell what all is missing.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?Uc=nd9c5xa.ntwvo3i&Uy=s7zoes&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0&mode=fromshare&conn_speed=1

Here are a couple pics of whats left of the brakes. All I have done so far is pull the drums. I haven't dis-assembled anything yet. As you can see by the pics.. everything is gone from the drivers side drum. The first thing I am going to do is "carefully" inventory the passenger side. I've never worked on drum brakes before. I'm going to clean everything well with kerosene, match up the springs from the kit I purchased and see what is there.
I work in a tool and die shop so I am thinking, any solid piece of steel, I can re-manufacture at work..hopefully the only thing that is left and right are the adjusters. Which from the dealer ship is $30.00 per side.
I picked up new drums. as you can see from the pics, there wasn't much left of the old ones.
PARKING BRAKES ?? The truck had parking brakes? I thought they were optional that year! :lol: There are no cables to be found. The book I have isn't real clear as to the location and route of the cables.
Also, what about the proportioning block? With the wheel cylinder on the drivers side being blown, is that going to need replaced? Any help is appreciated. I hope the link for the pictures works. Is there a way to post pics or albums through the forum?
That should keep me out of(or in over my head) trouble for a while. Thanks again for the replys!

Take a look at the factory service manuals available at the top of this forum.
Driver's side backing plate should be replaced.
With all the grime, I'm unable to determine the condition of the passenger side's backing plate. It definitely needs some serious cleaning. Looks like the passenger side cylinder is leaking.
A lot of rust on the adjuster for the passenger side. Does it work, or is it frozen? If you have a pick your part wrecking yard in your vicinity, see about getting replacement backing plates, adjusters, etc.
Check out various sources for repair manuals to see if you can get a good diagram. Libraries and autozone.com are a couple of good sources.
Look at the steel brake lines for evidence of corosion.
There is a switch or valve that closes when one of the brake circuits fail. You will have to locate it to reset or replace.
Check the parking brake front to rear for missing or frozen parts.
Might as well jack up the front and inspect the brakes. Since the rears are in such a serious state of disrepair, I wouldn't be too optimistic about the fronts.
Check the differential to make sure it is filled with the appropriate oil.

Dude, what year truck do you have ?

If it's an 85 or older I might have a complete set of rear axles shafts.
You're in PA and I'm in central MD.

Hi again, The truck is an '89 4X4 reg. cab 22RE.
After further inspection this morning, it's the emergency brake parts that I need. Parking brake lever,C-Washer, parking brake cable no. 1 & 2. Do they sell a kit for the parking brake. All I could find is the cable from the front to the back. Our "junk" yards around here (remember.. Pennsylvania.. snow,salt,mud and muck!!!) LOL . The ones I have talked to said they don't have any thing on the shelf. If the parts are there, they are still on the truck. They pull the wheels and drums off and drop it. Not sure what shape they are in. Soooo, I guess I'll have to do some leg work. The scrap yards close at noon on Saturday so I didn't have a chance to get out. Are there any online scrap yards that are dependable??
Thanks for the offer, unfortunately it's an '89. I don't realy want to change an axel. I hope I didn't get in over my head. Everyone has been great so far.
Thanks for all the advice, keep it comming. It's appreciated!

Thanks for the offer, unfortunately it's an '89. I don't realy want to change an axel. !

Not the axle, the axle shafts.

But the 89 is wider, so my spares won't fit.

Did you have the adjuster in a different location, it is missing in the photo of the driver's side wheel. Is the one on the passenger side functioning, it looked really rusty. If it is frozen you won't be able to adjust the brakes. If the threads are damaged, it will not hold. The adjustment wheel will have sharp points (look kind of like teeth on a saw blade and are directional like teeth on a crosscut saw) so that the automatic adjuster can ratchet down and get a grip. Are they still sharp? Try to clean the passenger side (use some kind spray and rinse, since the shoes aren't salvageable and the wheel cylinder should have seals replaced at the very least, you won't damage anything. Just make sure everything is clean before putting on the new parts. Put a dish pan or bucket under brake assembly to catch drips and rinse water to help keep your work area clean) before disassembly so you will have an easy visual reference when you fix the driver's side first. After fixing the driver's side, then take apart the passenger side.
Yes, there is a way of posting pictures with your post. I don't know how to do it though. Maybe if you start a new thread asking Brian to post the instructions.
Did you look at this link? http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-buchanan/93fsm/
It has some detailed instructions and diagrams. Make enlarged copies so they're easier to read and make notes on.

Posting pics is easy, 1st the pic must be already on the web, yours are (at Kodakgallery). Insert the URL to the image between and ie URL Or use the postcard icon above and type/paste the URL at the prompt.

Like this (but some of the pic hosting sites don't allow you to link to their pics)


http://images.kodakgallery.com/servlet/Images/photos1864/1/38/47/87/41/0/41874738110_0_BG.jpg?

OK, little red X. Evidently Kodakgallery doesn't allow linking (neither does WebShots).

However, you, as the owner of the pic, may be able to link to it.

Good Morning! KimMG. No,there was no adjuster for the drivers side. The adjuster, as well as the rest of the parts on the passenger side, were so badly rusted and corroded, that they were unusable. I purchaced the "guts" from a scrap yard. Trusted that they gave me what I asked for!:rofl: :banghead:
I got the parts home for assembly. Found that they forgot the short cable.
Went back to get the short cables, The truck they took the "guts" out of was a "93. So they found an "89 4-runner. Took the short cables from that and thought..ALRIGHT!!. I'm ready to roll!! Got home to start the repair. Passenger side went easy. Used the new short cable, and the long cable from the original set-up. NO PROBLEM! When I got to the drivers side, the short cable was fine, but when I went to install the the longer cable(the one from the junk yard) it was 2 1/2 to 3 inchs too long!!:banghead: . After tearing the other side apart , it made sence. Soooo, back to the junkyard for the 3rd time,(by the way, about 20 miles out of the way!!) lol ! Went back to the 89 4-runner and snaged the cables(both of them , just in case)
Got home and it took half the time to put the drivers side back togeather as the passenger side!
ALRIGHT!! So I thought!!:banghead: Filled the master cylinder with fresh brake fluid, bleed the pasenger side. YES!! bleed the drivers side.. the 3rd pump of the brake pedal and PSSSSST... There was brake fluid spraying from the frame just behind the cab on passenger side!!:crying:
So I guess I will replace all the lines before I try to go any further. I didn't realy want to have to take the bed off. I was told I could cut and re-route the brake lines in another location.. as long as it didn't interfear with the suspension. Not sure if I want to do that! Any thoughts??

The link to the brake repair site was great.. it realy helped! Thanks

Since you have the wheels all back together, I guess it is too late to post an after picture. Route steel brake lines where they are protected. Use a proper bending tool and the proper clips to secure the line.
Can you post pictures of the original steel line routing? I'm just curious, it is not necessary.
I think I can see a glimmer of light at the end of your brake job tunnel. After all, when you have finished, there will not have been a part that has not been inspected, serviced, or replaced.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?Uc=nd9c5xa.ntwvo3i&Uy=s7zoes&Upost_s ignin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0&mode=f romshare&conn_speed=1 (http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?Uc=nd9c5xa.ntwvo3i&Uy=s7zoes&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0&mode=fromshare&conn_speed=1)

Hey.. thanks for the reminder to take pictures. I was so excited to get the brakes back together, I forgot. Click on the link above. I added the after pics and a few comments.
As far as the brake line pics, I was advised that removing the bed was not a wise idea. Due to the age of the truck, the bolt's would most likely snap. Re- routing the lines was suggested. After further inspection(at least what I could see through the layers of mud):disappoin I realized I still couldn't see enough. Western Pa. is finally starting to give up a few nice days, so I am going to pressure wash the underside of the truck to try and remove some of the mud. Lets see what lies beneath!!:lol: Let me know if the link doesn't work. Thanks again

The rear brakes look nice and shiney, good job.
I wouldn't have removed the bed under any conditions if I could avoid it. Route the new brake lines so that they cannot be damaged by the suspension and someone jacking up the truck. You can buy universal clips that have a rubber bushing to attach the new brake lines to the bottom of the truck. Depending on the location, you may be able to use self drilling screws to attach them. Most parts stores sell various lengths of brake line with the fittings attached. All you have to do is use a bending tool to shape the line and mount it to the truck. Just bring in about a six inch length from the ends to match up the fittings and diameter. Carefully measure the distance of the routing so you can get the best length for the job.
Check the lines for the fronts so you don't have any surprises.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?&collid=50867738110.51874738110.1162140875135&page=1&sort_order=0&navfo
lderid=0&folderid=0&ownerid=0

Hey Guys, I'm back.
Finally found a few more bucks to continue working on the "project truck". WHAT A PROJECT!!!

Thanks to KimMg for all your expertise.. has made trouble shooting much easier!! But I'm back at a stand still. We(my son has joined me in the project) replaced the brake lines as you had suggested.. did not remove the bed, just re-routed them out of the way. Because everything was so rusted, we had a few issues with brake line fittings but nothing a little blaster, a pair of channel locks and side cutters couldn't fix! LOL ! All except for one.. and I think that is where our problem lies. The link at the top of this post are to pictures of the part that is not co-operating !!!
First off.. WHAT IS IT???? I know it is some kind of proportioning block.. but I can't find anything in the book to tell me what it is. The lines coming in from the front are new.. NOW ! The one coming out of the top, as you can see from the pictures, is rusted pretty bad!! It should be replaced, but I'm afraid to brake the block.. or what ever it's called!! If I knew what it was called, I could get one from a junk yard. I also don't know what the rod that comes from the bottom of the block to the axle is or does. Sorry.. I feel like an idiot.. probably should have had a professional do it !!
We bled the brake line, but the pedal is still soft. The only fitting we didn't bled was the one on that block in the pictures. Any suggestions would be appreciated!! Thanks in advance. If the link at the top doesn't work.. let me know and I'll send them another way.

I'm sorry you are still having trouble with the brakes after all the time you spent and parts you replaced.
Your link to pictures did not work.
Look at the link below and see if this is the part you are refering to.
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-buchanan/93fsm/brakesystem/12loadsens.pdf

The factory service manual for a 1993 provided in the factory service manual post at the top of this sub-forum should cover your year and type of braking system you have. Become familiar with the part so you don't change the settings. To adjust the proportioning valve, you are going to need specialty tools (guages).

Check your local junior colleges, night schools or high schools to see if they have low cost vocational classes. It can be a great way to get hands on help and access to specialty tools, lifts, etc.
As far as you feeling like an idiot, don't. So far I think you have done well in making sure your brakes are going to function properly and you have had more experience with your brake adventure than most people will ever have. By the time you are done, you will be an expert and know every inch of the braking system for your truck, how it works and its condition (new, you practically replaced everything).

"OH MY GOD !!!!!!!!!!!!" :o
Yea.. Thats the part... now I'm scared!!!
I've got one more trick to try.. I was told to gravity bleed the lines.. hopefully that will solve the problem.. I don't eeeeeeeeevan want to tackle that one! Thanks for the reply.. I'll let you know what happenes!

http://images.kodakgallery.com/photos2510/6/48/2/66/83/0/83660248610_0_ALB.jpg
lets try this..here is the mess.. can't get the bleeder valve broke loose.. any suggestions??

PB Blaster? May need to keep re-applying and let it soak for a couple of days.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?Uc=nd9c5xa.ntwvo3i&Uy=s7zoes&Upost_s ignin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0&mode=f romshare&conn_speed=1 (http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?Uc=nd9c5xa.ntwvo3i&Uy=s7zoes&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0&mode=fromshare&conn_speed=1)

This link worked the first time. I added the pictures to this file. You will recognize the before and after pics of the brake drums. The proportioning block and overall pics are after.

We hosed the proportioning block down with blaster the nite before last.. worked like a charm !! We got the bleeder valve broke loose.. the dirty fluid that came out of the block was amazing ! We got excited figuring we were almost there... the line we didn't want to mess with...SPRUNG A LEAK!!! Sooo...NOW we have replaced all the lines..from just behind the front wheel to the wheel cylinders.. come to think of it.. they're new too!! LOL
So we started to bleed the system starting with the back.. got as far as the proportioning block...AND RAN OUT OF BRAKE FLUID!!!! The only place that was open at 9:30 an nite was Wal-Mart..25 MILES AWAY!! LOL

We hosed the proportioning block down with blaster the nite before last.. worked like a charm !! We got the bleeder valve broke loose.. the dirty fluid that came out of the block was amazing ! We got excited figuring we were almost there... the line we didn't want to mess with...SPRUNG A LEAK!!! Sooo...NOW we have replaced all the lines..from just behind the front wheel to the wheel cylinders.. come to think of it.. they're new too!! LOL
So we started to bleed the system starting with the back.. got as far as the proportioning block...AND RAN OUT OF BRAKE FLUID!!!! The only place that was open at 9:30 an nite was Wal-Mart..25 MILES AWAY!! LOL Soooo...
I

We hosed the proportioning block down with blaster the nite before last.. worked like a charm !! We got the bleeder valve broke loose.. the dirty fluid that came out of the block was amazing ! We got excited figuring we were almost there... the line we didn't want to mess with...SPRUNG A LEAK!!! Sooo...NOW we have replaced all the lines..from just behind the front wheel to the wheel cylinders.. come to think of it.. they're new too!! LOL
So we started to bleed the system starting with the back.. got as far as the proportioning block...AND RAN OUT OF BRAKE FLUID!!!! The only place that was open at 9:30 an nite was Wal-Mart..25 MILES AWAY!! LOL Soooo...
I picked up more fluid on the way home. Hopefully tomorrow nite we'll have brakes!! But I do have one question.. I know we replaced over 24 feet of brake line.. is it normal to get foam coming from the proportioning block??
Thanks again for all the advice and help.. it is very appreciated!!