mystery oil, need help identifying

Hey, I found some oil on the stem of the supercharger right by the pully, and some also on the top ignition coil.... anybody know where this is coming from? I bought the grand prix gtp last week and am not a close friend to the engine yet. Any help would be apreciated. Also, I'd like to get to checking the supercharger's oil and dont yet know how to do that; I'm off to consult the owners manual,,, but if any of you have pointers, it'd be apreciated. thanks.

Welcome to AF!!

The oil you are seeing is probably coming from the seal on the end of the shaft. They do wear out from time to time and it needs to be replaced. You will need a puller to remove the pulley to get to the seal behind it. You can buy a kit from rollingperformance.com for a few dollars. ZZP, PFYC and others can also supply the parts you will need.

As for the supercharger oil, there is an allen headed plug in the housing on the pulley end of the supercharger. Remove it and check the oil there. I suggest you spend the extra money to change it if you don't know when it was changed last. You will need a turkey baster and a piece of plastic tubing to suck the old stuff out and then replace the old fluid. I suggest you wait until you get the parts to replace the seal, since it will be easier to do if you remove the snout from the car but if the oil is very low put some supercharger oil in it until you are ready to do the repair. The oil is available at GM dealers. Also once you remove it replace the coupler with a new one they wear out and make a rattling noise that is quite distinctive. GM does not have the replacement part but the folks I mentioned above will have it for you.

Good Luck!!

Sounds like you are leaking supercharger oil out of the snout seal. There is a plug located on the supercharger snout to inspect and/or drain the SC oil. Probably a good idea to replace the snout seal and put in new supercharger oil.

Here are procedures to do the coupler but it covers SC oil and removing the snout. To replace the seal it can de done DIY. The SC pulley must be removed to do it.

http://www.regalgs.org/coupler.shtml

http://www3.sympatico.ca/aepa/blowerinstall.html

thanks for your imput guys, but once I replace this, it is prone to breaking again??? also if I do not hear any of those noises, and it just sounds like a super charger whine, would you suppose everything is ok? so i was concidering adding new supercharger oil and hoping that it would take care of everything, but do you think that it would still be terrible to drive the car, if the leak was infact coming from the supercharger? is there any way to make sure it is from the supercharger before I take everything apart?
thanks

thanks for your imput guys, but once I replace this, it is prone to breaking again??? also if I do not hear any of those noises, and it just sounds like a super charger whine, would you suppose everything is ok? so i was concidering adding new supercharger oil and hoping that it would take care of everything, but do you think that it would still be terrible to drive the car, if the leak was infact coming from the supercharger? is there any way to make sure it is from the supercharger before I take everything apart?
thanks

The seals are good for quite a while once replaced. Important to replace the SC oil more frequently. I do mine once a year. The Eaton M90 Gen 3 blower is good for well over 100K miles plus as long as maintained properly.

Lynn, GTPDad mentioned the coupler should be replaced. It makes sense because you have to remove the snout anyways to replace certain snout parts like seals and bearings. There is a new style coupler that takes the place of the OEM coupler.

On the oil, SC oil is very noticeable. It smells bad, very rancid (fishy) unlike motor oil or other fluids like power steering or even AC compressor oil.

Look under or run your hand under the SC snout by the pulley. If it feels wet and smells like the SC oil then that is your problem. Good luck!

BTW - Also check the snout assembly to main SC housing for leaking. It may need new gaskets.

so, I've read up on knowing how to change the bearings.... about how much time do you suppose that'd take? also, I didnt read anything about how to change the seal, how would you go about doing that? do you just unbolt the pully and then pull out the stem or what? I woudnt know how to do that... while I'm in there would you recomend that I put on a keyed pully so that I could quickly change the size of the pulley? the car has 113k miles on it now... also would it be important for me not to drive it until I fix the leak, or just drive it around and make sure I fix it pretty soon, like this week? thanks again.

so, I've read up on knowing how to change the bearings.... about how much time do you suppose that'd take? also, I didnt read anything about how to change the seal, how would you go about doing that? do you just unbolt the pully and then pull out the stem or what? I woudnt know how to do that... while I'm in there would you recomend that I put on a keyed pully so that I could quickly change the size of the pulley? the car has 113k miles on it now... also would it be important for me not to drive it until I fix the leak, or just drive it around and make sure I fix it pretty soon, like this week? thanks again.

The seal can be replaced without removing the snout from the main supercharger body. Remove pulley. You can use a seal puller or similar tool. The new one will fit by placing over the shaft, evenly and gently tapping it back into the cutout/seat for the seal.

If you want the versatility of easily swapping out SC pullies then go with a modulator system. Much easier. Available at ZZP, etc.

If you lost a lot of SC fluid then I'd check the level by opening that plug mentioned above on the snout. You may need to add some. The procedures above have the GM part number for the oil. The decision to drive it would be based on how bad the leak is. If minor I'm quite sure you can drive it a week or so or until you get all the repair parts needed. Good luck!

BTW - I can post a procedure on how to do a pulley removal. You'll need a pulley puller that will work on the M90.

Hey, I just ordered a pully puller from zz perfomrance, so it would actually be helpful to get the instructions on how to do it properly. Tomorrow I will go to a GM dealer and get the seal and s/c oil. I would like to change the oil tomorrow, but will I have to wait for when I remove the seal? I'm afraid if I change the seal later, all the new oil will spill out, but perhaps that's nothing to worry about. I dont think there's a problem with the coupler since when I took the belt off, the s/c spun freely without any apparant play (unless it shouldnt spin at all, in which case it was 100% play, but there wasn't any difference in the resistance). Once the puller gets here, it should be in top shape. thanks again, and for your quick replies.

Also, what exactly does the boost bypass valve do? is it undesirable? is there any gain in getting rid of it? SO this Grand prix already has an intake and a 3.4 pulley, and the car is for my wife and she doesnt want a loud car, is there anything you'd recomend to make it faster without making it much louder? thanks

Hey, I just ordered a pully puller from zz perfomrance, so it would actually be helpful to get the instructions on how to do it properly. Tomorrow I will go to a GM dealer and get the seal and s/c oil. I would like to change the oil tomorrow, but will I have to wait for when I remove the seal? I'm afraid if I change the seal later, all the new oil will spill out, but perhaps that's nothing to worry about. I dont think there's a problem with the coupler since when I took the belt off, the s/c spun freely without any apparant play (unless it shouldnt spin at all, in which case it was 100% play, but there wasn't any difference in the resistance). Once the puller gets here, it should be in top shape. thanks again, and for your quick replies.

Also, what exactly does the boost bypass valve do? is it undesirable? is there any gain in getting rid of it? SO this Grand prix already has an intake and a 3.4 pulley, and the car is for my wife and she doesnt want a loud car, is there anything you'd recomend to make it faster without making it much louder? thanks

This procedure should give you an idea of how to use a pulley puller. The puller from ZZP will have a instruction sheet. This one is for a Pulley Boys.

http://www.pulleyboys.com/swap.html

If you do the spin test by hand and it spins freely with no noise it sounds good. A bad coupler will be accompanied by a rattling sound and bad snout bearings will be audible. It sounds like the snout seal should take care of your problem.

The boost bypass valve is an integral part of the supercharger. It helps economy and driveability by allowing boost only when you get it on like acceleration and WOT. It can be adjusted to a point but otherwise we're stuck with it.

If you already have a CAI and 3.4 SC pulley that is a plus. I'd recommend considering a DHP reprogrammed PCM. They reduced the price to $99. A CATBack exhaust will make the car louder. Good noiseless exhaust mods are a hi-flow CAT convertor and a bigger downpipe (2.5" - 3.0").

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

So now I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions, but two things I was wondering: 1, earlier there was mention of a tool to remove the seal, would that be a knife?? or some other tool I'm unfamiliar with? How do I go about getting this tool if it isnt the said knife? and 2, with Random Technology's highflow cat and u-bend delete, there's the 2.5 and 3.0 inch inlet for factory headers. Would such a large inlet as the 3.0 even fit on the factory headers or sort of hang out around the headers? I figure 2.5 would be fine, but if 15 bucks will bring around better horse power, sure, but is 3.0 too much? Thanks for all of your time and answers, sorry if I'm asking way too many qestions!

So now I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions, but two things I was wondering: 1, earlier there was mention of a tool to remove the seal, would that be a knife?? or some other tool I'm unfamiliar with? How do I go about getting this tool if it isnt the said knife? and 2, with Random Technology's highflow cat and u-bend delete, there's the 2.5 and 3.0 inch inlet for factory headers. Would such a large inlet as the 3.0 even fit on the factory headers or sort of hang out around the headers? I figure 2.5 would be fine, but if 15 bucks will bring around better horse power, sure, but is 3.0 too much? Thanks for all of your time and answers, sorry if I'm asking way too many qestions!

The seal puller looks like a screwdriver with a hook on the end. See example at link below. Not that expensive.

http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/CAL-49300.html

If you still have the ubend then it is a good idea to delete it. The Random Tech brand downpipe and hi-flow CAT is good. I'd go with the 2.5 if you have the stock exhaust manifolds.

So today I went to three different GM dealers and finally got the oil, and it seems NONE of them have any seals, So, how do I go about getting the seals? There are some listed here: http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=314 but I dont know if I need the front seal, the back one, both, or a different seal all together, would any of you know? Also I cannot find any store that sells the seal puller, so I'll buy it off of that site you sent me, thanks. I dont have a tube to fit on my turkey baster, but I'll look at home depot soon, suppose that's where I'd find some? thanks again for all of your help, I really apreciate it.

So today I went to three different GM dealers and finally got the oil, and it seems NONE of them have any seals, So, how do I go about getting the seals? There are some listed here: http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=314 but I dont know if I need the front seal, the back one, both, or a different seal all together, would any of you know? Also I cannot find any store that sells the seal puller, so I'll buy it off of that site you sent me, thanks. I dont have a tube to fit on my turkey baster, but I'll look at home depot soon, suppose that's where I'd find some? thanks again for all of your help, I really apreciate it.

The seals for the SC are located at this ZZP link below. The other seals in your link are the front and rear crank seals.

http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=157

Sounds good. All of us had to improvise along the way with the turkey baster, etc. But once it is done you'll have all of that for future service.

So now that I'm waiting for the seal and puller to come in, I've had time to think of other things I'd like to work on... The HUD is constantly fading, and sometimes as bright as it should be for a few seconds, then back to being poor. and also the first two numbers in the radio station wont come in... do you guys have any ideas on how to get the HUD vibrant again?? Thanks.

So now that I'm waiting for the seal and puller to come in, I've had time to think of other things I'd like to work on... The HUD is constantly fading, and sometimes as bright as it should be for a few seconds, then back to being poor. and also the first two numbers in the radio station wont come in... do you guys have any ideas on how to get the HUD vibrant again?? Thanks.

The HUD operates off a photocell sensor device. The HUD unit will need to be removed and inspected. The photocell solder joints can be resoldered along with a few other points on the circuit board. You should have a high probability of success since it is a common problem on GPs with the HUD.

SO, the change went without too many problems, the biggest and most frusterating problem was when I was putting everything back together, I decided to tighten the supercharger breather (the nut on the end of the snout) and I stripped it, so now I dearly dearly hope I did not strip the inside of the snout, I dearly hope that... SO, now I need to find another breather nut, it seemed I wouldnt be able to find anything like that at a GM dealer, where would you suggest? home depot? zzperformance? I'd like to have it tomorrow as I'm too scared to drive the car without it in. ALSO there might be one small problem, quite frusterating too if it is! When I was getting the seal in, I bent one side while trying to push it in, then I took it out and looked at it, and along the outsides still seemed perfectly round, so I tried denting it back to no avail, so, hopefully I dont have to do the same job again soon! ANYWAYS, would you know where I can get a new breather? and also, if the inside is stripped, do I have to take out the whole snout too? thanks

SO, the change went without too many problems, the biggest and most frusterating problem was when I was putting everything back together, I decided to tighten the supercharger breather (the nut on the end of the snout) and I stripped it, so now I dearly dearly hope I did not strip the inside of the snout, I dearly hope that... SO, now I need to find another breather nut, it seemed I wouldnt be able to find anything like that at a GM dealer, where would you suggest? home depot? zzperformance? I'd like to have it tomorrow as I'm too scared to drive the car without it in. ALSO there might be one small problem, quite frusterating too if it is! When I was getting the seal in, I bent one side while trying to push it in, then I took it out and looked at it, and along the outsides still seemed perfectly round, so I tried denting it back to no avail, so, hopefully I dont have to do the same job again soon! ANYWAYS, would you know where I can get a new breather? and also, if the inside is stripped, do I have to take out the whole snout too? thanks

Bummer! You might need a complete new snout. Try ZZP, EBay, the boneyard or Ed Morad. Ed lists on EBay and may have just the part you need.

So I'm very frusterated, it seems that no one in the nation stocks a supercharger breather nut, and now that I call ZZP, they say if I put in a barbed retainer, that'd be fine, does anybody have any experience with this? ZZP has been very helpful so far, but I would like to get in the breather nut.... Also thanks for your guys's help. ALSO would you suppose it'd be fine if I drove the car without the breather nut to the shop? And I assumed the bolt played some role in keeping the supercharger pulley from falling off,,,, or is it just such a tight fit on the snout that it's just not coming off anyways? thanks again.

SO, now I put on that plastic barbed retainer and drove it. BUT there is a loud squeeking (possibly scratching) sound coming from the fanbelt/pulley neighborhood. SO, I'm not sure if it's that I didnt get the pulley on far enough and the belt is scraping, I dont know if it has to do with all of the supercharger oil that dripped out onto the fan belt, if it has to do with the antiseize stuff I put on the shaft or what... It's really really loud and I dont know what's going on.... any help would be apreciated... tomorrow I guess I'll try and put the pulley on more and see if that does anything. Thanks.

SO, now I put on that plastic barbed retainer and drove it. BUT there is a loud squeeking (possibly scratching) sound coming from the fanbelt/pulley neighborhood. SO, I'm not sure if it's that I didnt get the pulley on far enough and the belt is scraping, I dont know if it has to do with all of the supercharger oil that dripped out onto the fan belt, if it has to do with the antiseize stuff I put on the shaft or what... It's really really loud and I dont know what's going on.... any help would be apreciated... tomorrow I guess I'll try and put the pulley on more and see if that does anything. Thanks.

Before any further damage is done, you might remove the supercharger belt and check the SC tensioner and the idler pullley to make sure it is not the source of the noise. Also, spin the SC pulley by hand to check for noise. Also with SC belt off start engine to make sure it is not any part of the main serpentine drive belt components. You should be able to run without a SC belt hooked up for a short period of time.

It is important to follow the instructions provided by ZZP that came with your pulley puller. Especially the part on re-installing the pulley and making sure it is straight and torqued down properly on the shaft until it hits the backing plate or triangle (whatever the ZZP puller has).

SO, I took off the belt, all of the pulleys seemed fine, and the supercharger would spin with no sound, I'd even strap it to the belt and pull the belt just to get it spinning faster, and nothing sounded wronge... I started it up and reved it a bit without the supercharger going and everything sounded fine, then I put the belt back on and the sqeeking started again,,,, so I'm really thinking that the pulley just isnt on enough, by looking at it, it seems to be out about 1/4 or 1/8 of an inch further out than the other pulleys. While putting the pulley back on we didnt use the backing plate as there werent any instructions for that, just the top plate... SO we just twisted the wrenches pretty hard so much so we were afraid that anymore could hurt the supercharger, so we stopped, but it looks like we should get the tools out and try and snug it on just a bit more... I cannot wait for this project to be over! Wait, do you think that some of the antisieze cream got into the oil somehow and is causing that noise? hope not.
Dale

SO, I took off the belt, all of the pulleys seemed fine, and the supercharger would spin with no sound, I'd even strap it to the belt and pull the belt just to get it spinning faster, and nothing sounded wronge... I started it up and reved it a bit without the supercharger going and everything sounded fine, then I put the belt back on and the sqeeking started again,,,, so I'm really thinking that the pulley just isnt on enough, by looking at it, it seems to be out about 1/4 or 1/8 of an inch further out than the other pulleys. While putting the pulley back on we didnt use the backing plate as there werent any instructions for that, just the top plate... SO we just twisted the wrenches pretty hard so much so we were afraid that anymore could hurt the supercharger, so we stopped, but it looks like we should get the tools out and try and snug it on just a bit more... I cannot wait for this project to be over! Wait, do you think that some of the antisieze cream got into the oil somehow and is causing that noise? hope not.
Dale

Sounds good and you've got it under control. Thats why I never liked the ZZP pulley puller and went with Pulley Boys instead. The PB has a better design to let you know the pulley is on the shaft properly.

I don't believe the anti-seize compound is causing the noise. Try tightening down the pulley more and also you might have a damaged belt from the SC oil and may need a new one. Is it a GoodYear Gatorback?

SO it looks like (for now) the job's done! The pulley just needed to be put on further. I didnt know that about the pulleyboys one. I was more attracted to the ZZP one because it went around the entire pulley and not just part, but now I certainly see what you mean; even the second time we got the pulley pretty far on, but once the huge bolt was taken out we still had about an 1/8 an inch left to go, oh well. The sound is all gone, and it runs perfect now... well there was a bit of a sound when I first started driving, but it could have been anything (including my imagination), now it sounds and drives just fine. That is interesting you say that about the fan belt, it was the alternator belt that got the most of the oil, but when I took off the s/c belt this morning it was kinda stiff, and I'm not use to it feeling that way, but it's still working and still seems completly normal now.... but yes it is a Gatorback, I'm pretty pleased with it, and thankfully everything is done! Now I can get started on a Random Tech catalytic converter and u-bend delete! phew!

SO it looks like (for now) the job's done! The pulley just needed to be put on further. I didnt know that about the pulleyboys one. I was more attracted to the ZZP one because it went around the entire pulley and not just part, but now I certainly see what you mean; even the second time we got the pulley pretty far on, but once the huge bolt was taken out we still had about an 1/8 an inch left to go, oh well. The sound is all gone, and it runs perfect now... well there was a bit of a sound when I first started driving, but it could have been anything (including my imagination), now it sounds and drives just fine. That is interesting you say that about the fan belt, it was the alternator belt that got the most of the oil, but when I took off the s/c belt this morning it was kinda stiff, and I'm not use to it feeling that way, but it's still working and still seems completly normal now.... but yes it is a Gatorback, I'm pretty pleased with it, and thankfully everything is done! Now I can get started on a Random Tech catalytic converter and u-bend delete! phew!

Good man and good job. I knew you'd figure it out. Good luck and off to the mods. :bigthumb: